Horus Heresy General /hhg/

This is the management for the /HHG/ Podcast. Yes, it's still happening. We're still taking suggestions for what to do, cover or talk about (Constructive ones, not 'give up now'). But we need your help, the help of the community at large.

This is a call for questions from the community that we can discuss, debate and argue over in-podcast. Rules, fluff, anything. That way we can have something other than the Inferno release to talk about. Have at it.

>Replacing Force weapons with Lightningclaws

Just ... why ? Lightningclaws are already very mediocre on terminators because no assault grenades and claws being useless against anything with a 2+ save. But then also giving up Force weapons for it ...

Then again there are also people who play SW voluntarily, guess questionable decisions aren't limited to Yiffs.

Because im using normal termie models WYSIWYG because the sekhmet models arent out yet

Serious question, why are you starting a podcast if you have no idea what youre trying to talk about? What will the point of the whole thing be if you're just bouncing around popular topics? That only works if people care about the individuals doing that podcast.

Favourite under-appreciated unit in HH?
The story of Your Dudes?
Your Dudes' theme music?

It's time to paint. What are you painting today /hhg/?

So I just got back into Warhammer after taking a six year break, and the Custodes just sucked me back in. I know very little about the new rules, but was incredibly proficient in 5th Edition. Anyway, C&C is welcome with this lsit since it's the first shit I've done in YEARS.

HQ: Legio Custodes Tribune w/ Praesidium Shield, Cyber-Familiar, Digital Lasers, Paragon Spear 275pt

Elite: Legio Custodes Hetaeron Squad of 5 w/ 2 Praesidium Shields, 2 Paragon Blades, and 2 Solerite Gauntlets 420pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Magisterium Vexilla/Sentinel WarBlade 285pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ Melta Bombs 300pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ Melta Bombs 300pt

Dedicated Transport: Legio Custodes Coronus Grav-Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Sentinel Guard Squad of 5 w/ Melta Bombs 335pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Caladius Grav Tank 195pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought 250pt

Total = 2500pt

This.

Podcasts, while not great when restricted, some form of goal needs to be present.

I just toothbrushed away paint from two marine.

Your flamer squad is coming along nicely.

Hey /hhg/ returning player just wondering what the exact rulings are on allying/fighting between modern 40k forces and 30k army lists. Basically I want to make an imperial guard cavalry regiment with all Malcador chassis tanks, including Dracosan's for transports. Is there any way of doing that legally?

Are they going to have rules for Horus when he's all jacked up on chaos power?

I really want to buy some Death Korps, but can't start an army because holyfuck its expensive and I need to fund my legions first.

BUT I was considering using a squad of DK engineers as Legion Scouts in recon armour w/shotguns for my Iron Warriors, it this a bad idea?
The models got carapace armour, but are a bit small but maybe they are jacked on combat drugs to explain the better stats.

Fuck it, I'll probably buy em anyways because they look cool.

DK are too iconic.

people will say "what are those DK models supposed to be"

I bet they will, he'll have a stat increase after Molech and during the Seige of Terra.

Sexy daemon snake Fulgrim too hopefully.

>Bend over its Chaos Magnus time!
Plz no.

They'd probably look better as Militia allies. Legions did have human fighters under them either as some legion serfs/thralls or regiments attached to their expeditionary fleets, right?

They ought to, as the daemon-primarchs will probably have their own rules as well. One issue here is that GW is doing their own primarchs and it may be easier for FW to use those rules, or iterate on those rules, as they may end up coming out first. There's been a lot of rumors of either Morty or Nailbrain (or both) getting 40k daemon-primarch releases in the very near future, so it's pretty likely that GW's gonna have the release first. They've already done 40k daemon Magnus and now Big Bobby G has a 40k model coming as well, so at this point anything is possible.

Well, almost anything. Ferrus Manus isn't coming back, that's for damn sure. He's not, right? They're not going to give us a horrible Fabius Bile clone-spawn and call it a "primarch," right? Please tell me they won't do that...

FW more or less confirmed that Big E is eventually going to have rules for the Talons of the Emperor list, as it's mentioned that Valdor has to be Warlord unless his boss is around.

The rumour is Ferrus is coming back as the leader of the Legion of the Damned/Ghost Rider, complete with flaming metal skull for a head.

I'm not kidding.

jesus fucking christ yes

To connect to the last thread, Unification wars and MKII and III are cool, as well as early crusade legions and thunder warriors due to the imperium being an underdog and not as well supplied and polished.
Also less daddy issues.

About Thunder Warriors, I believe they might have been stronger and a tad tougher, but less mentally and physically stable. They also porbably lacked all the utility implants marines have,
So they are nice to use in a standard terran environment, but it doesnt protect them from space aids, radiation,extreme temperatures and other shit. They didnt have the black csrapace, fkr emps sake.

For me they are dudes beefed up to ogryn size, cool warriors, if you ignore the homicidal rage,but shitty soldiers in the grand scale.

Good enouh to mass produce to conquer terra and begin the production of properly disciplined, team working, multiple purpose serving soldiery.

I... don't know how to feel about that. Really, I don't.

YES!

youtu.be/P3ALwKeSEYs

Havent got the Burning yet, so I can not comment.

Only that gold and screaming faces are rad.

Are Frost Blades available to consuls? Their rules say that the praetor and centurion can exchange their power weapon for a Frost Blade, but I've seen arguments back and forth if "centurion" just means a naked centurion or if consuls can take them as well.

Literally my favorite faction since those art books came out years ago. Them having models now tempted me hard enough to collect them.

Also the tech being more spacey and less standardised.

As in: Hey whe found this space hulk with a really cool old ship!lets strap some generators into it and let it fly.

Fighting Neptunian degenerated humans, space pirates and aliums on the artificial 10th planet of our solar system just sounds amazing.
Together with the scavenging space miner polis of saturn you have SO much amazing stuff in that small area.

This is what got me into 40k anyway, the scale of it and the possibilities to do amazing shit in writing fluff and building minis. All the different imperial regiments, the old WD rules for the cursed foundingsm the first Kill Team rules with oportunities of swapping in guard swuads for stage bosses and DOOM! Machines.

The more uniform and polished the setting becomes the more it loses this charm.

Thus clunky tech barbarian shit is more up my alleyway.

Are Cataphractii Sekhmets immune to pinning?

Totally agreeing with you, pump up the gold man.

I just like how that dread is fucking clocking that guy. Definition of being hit with a train

why would they be?

...

Consuls are bought as Centurions then upgraded into Consul of choice, it usually says restrictions in the Consul entry (can't take Terminator armour etc), those restrictions applying to the base Centurion options.

However, seeing as Inferno appears to have many holes in it for argument, be prepared for there be a reasonable way to say the above isn't how you do it in this specific case.

Any scottish players in here?

Count me in! I actually bought almost the whole metal LotD in metal on ebay, and Ghost Rider Ferrus would be fucking great.
That's the 40k I want.

Which model would be the best to make into an Ordo Reductor Medusa? The Legion one (without the marines, obviously), the Armageddon one, or the Solar Auxilia one?

Personally I think I like the Armageddon one the most, and either way it's gonna need some brass bits to make it Mechanicum, but I'm curious what other people think.

Any last minute suggestions before I commit to modeling the HQs?

Thousand Sons, 1500/1500 points
Pride of the Legion

HQ
Consul - Delegatus, 130
- Corvidae, ML1 Divination
- Cataphractii, Thunder Hammer (MC)

Consul - Primus Medicae, 150
- Pavoni, ML1 Biomancy
- Cataphractii, Power Axe

TROOPS
Veterans x10 + Rhino, 285
- Corvidae, ML1 Divination
- Plasma Gun x2, Combi-Plasma x2
- AA, Melta Bomb

Veterans x10 + Rhino, 285
- Corvidae, ML1 Divination
- Plasma Gun x2, Combi-Plasma x2
- AA, Melta Bomb

Sekhmet Cabal, 290
-Raptora, ML2 Telekinesis (Levitation, ???)
- Combi-Plasma x5, Chainfist x1, Force Axe x3, Force Sword x1

FAST ATTACK
Primaris-Lightning, 230
- Kraken Pairs x2, Servitors, Ground Tracking

Javelin, 65
- HK x2

Javelin, 65
- HK x2

I'm tempted to simply drop the Primus Medicae. With those points I can buy the Delegatus Arcane Litanies, the Sekhmet an extra one or two two bodies and Veterans either more combis or asphyx shells.

Otherwise: Delegatus and Primus go with the Sekhmet, and use Levitate to get into position.

Veterans Outflank, Javelins depend on the opponent. Lightning is there for AV14.

Give me a few well painted models against a grey tide any time.

If you guys don't follow Duncan on Twitter, you're doing it wrong.

...

those gems painted with the new technical clears?

i'm currently thinking about taking a krios battle tank and cutting the lightning cannon out, and replacing it with something a bit more widebore so it ends up quite short, but keeps the shroud looking bit intact, with the barrel just jutting out

I think you're 20 points high on the Lightning, unless you're counting the Ramjet grid without mentioning it

beyond that I haven't read the TS rules enough to comment

Those the aquilon termis second from left? That hood will look interesting on a miniature.

Just verified, it's all correct.
135 (base) + 70 (two kraken hardpoints) + servitor (15) + ground tracking (10)

Wish I could have 20 points leftover, I could give my HQs litanies to handle perils.

wouldn't it be better to base it on the venator? the venator is already very close to that look, it just has the quad-barreled pulsar-fusil in the stubby shroud instead of a single large cannon

for my list I'm already gonna have two venators, so part of the reason I want to bring the medusa is for a little bit of model variety while also giving a solid AP2 anti-TEQ threat for literally half the price of a Thanatar. basing it on a venator (or the normal krios for that matter) would defeat the point a bit.

So seeing as we always hear about the same few tactics, /hhg/, what are your views on (viability or fair play, either or):

>Spartan deathstars
>Pride of the Legion vets as compulsory
>Cybernetica and Reductor.
>Militia and Cults Cult Horde and Tainted Flesh Levy blobs.
>Custodes
>Allies, since I don't see many of them around.

And has anyone used Knight Errants (Malcador's dudes, not robots) in games? Saw one on stream and was interested. Seems like they'd fuck you over really easily, though.

Any of them work, honestly, and the Armageddon one avoids the mistaking it for open-topped thing.

Seeing as I'm going to use Basilisks with shortened barrels, Servitor crew and a bunch of steampunk bits (Skaven and such) and then file off all the aquilas, it doesn't really matter which you pick. If you can, though, model on a Dozer Blade because that way it won't look too off for FA13 and Walkers in Ruin.

Huh, Kraken missiles are only 25 points for a pair in the Mechanicum book. That's odd. Just checked the Legion List too, they're definitely more expensive for marines. Weird.

Yup. That's their original incarnation

Legion ones used to be 25 as well, but the new book upgraded them to 35. Mechanicum hasn't caught up.

I really don't get the fuss over POTL. It seems to be mainly resin elitists getting triggered by plastic marines, despite it being a pretty darn popular rite before BAC came out.

The militia thing is pretty lame though, it's always disappointing when one option is so good that nothing else gets taken.

Ah, right, that makes sense.

People were just mad that a £95 box could build a list equal to their £950 resin one. I'm sure many people starting their resin legions used PotL to make up for the low amounts of models they had.

I was thinking of PotL purely because I love dreads and I love terminators, and there's just that many Elite slots available, and the RoW that made dreads Troops had too many strings attached.

>Is the psychic dread no good?
50p in a already expensive army for ML1 and a force weapon on an already S10 melee unit with normal DCCW... I don't know, it's not as useless as Ammitara, but still halla expensive. Also, it eats HQ slots

That would explain their 3++ in 40k

Indeed, he followed his own tutorial.

Literally the only militia armies I've seen anyone use the M&C list for is to do a cultist mob allied with Word Bearers. That's it. No cyber-squats abhuman helots or anything like that. It's always cultists and artillery, since that's what seems to actually be viable, and none of the other legions feel all that fluffy with militia allies instead of Solar Auxilia.

Speaking of SA - I've never really seen a whole lot of them either, despite how good they seem to be. Dracosan veletaris/demolisher spam sounds fucking terrifying. I imagine the main reason no one commits to it is that the models are so expensive and the Dracosan in particular is a bit of a big bitch to make an entire army of them and transport all that resin around.

Fucking /everyone/ started with Pride of the Legion, especially when they changed it so that most legions could take their snowflake terminators as troops as well. It's the most basic starting template for a HH army because you get to build a fairly low model count, elite army that still has unique legion flavor. Once you actually play that list, though, you realize that spartan deathstars actually kind of suck for all but a handful of legions, and even they still need bodies to score.

To be honest I've never actually seen any hostility towards PotL until reading about it now. So many people start that way that it seems bizarre to hate on it. It's just... a mediocre, okay list that some legions can make work really well (Alpha) but most... less so.

Pride is popular because veterans are overwhelmingly better than every other generic troop, barring a few situations revolving around characters/legion rules.

>So many people start that way that it seems bizarre to hate on it.

Elitism. It's like when old people bitch about how good kids these days have it when they had it so much better than their parents, etc. Or how social media is ruining kids, even though they themselves were ruined by TV, and their parents were ruined by communism and their grandparents were ruined by rock'n'roll, etc.

I guess, but I've never really seen anyone bitch about it before. Like, sure, it's a little boring when a 30k scene is brand new and everyone at the FLGS is running variations on the same thing because they're all starting off the same box, but if they stick with it everyone evolves their lists over time and turns them into something their own. That takes time, though, and this shit definitely ain't cheap either.

I am a-okay with this. BL already brought ghost Ferrus back to fight the good fight a few times

I can't even say this would fucking bother me, an undead/Ghost primarch back to exact his revenge on the traitors.

Doesn't fit Iron hands in a "much technology" and "much strength", does fit the bill for being absolutely batshit stubborn assholes.

...

The problem isn't Pride. The problem is the sort of people the two plastic boxes encouraged to get into the game. Ever since Calth was released 30k has been far more accessible, and while that's good in theory the current state of 40k means it's attractive to a lot of bottom-feeders. Relatively cheap troops money-wise means they have that much more to spend on Quad Mortars, or Leviathans, or Lightning spam, or all the other things that just aren't fun to play against. That doesn't even take into account that a lot of the people who started with plastic just don't seem that smart or insightful; one only has to go to forums like Bolter and Cucksword or Dakka to see all the idiots making threads on 'how do i get into 30k?' like there's some secret test they have to pass, rather than just doing their own research like others did. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and there's nothing wrong with asking for help when starting out, but their lack of thought or ability to use a simple search function is infuriating.

We might have more options and choice, but I think few people can argue that the game was better before the rush of newbies bought on by Calth/Prospero. You can call it elitism because I think that is a fair term for it, but it gets grating for people who were here from the start like me to see the 30k playerbase cluttering up more and more with the types of people we switched to this system to get away from. The influx of very similar Pride lists were emblematic of that change, so they provoke a bit of a reaction.

>tfw to intelligent for 40k

>tfw to intelligent for 40k

>This just in, people who are new at things are worse at it then people who have been doing it for a long time
You seem like kind of a knob-end honestly.

Good way to put it.

Even though it can seem rude to newbies like me, that is a very fair to put it.

He has a point though, higher entry hurdles make people more comitted.

Well akshually, if GW wants to be cheeky, they can say that the Flesh is so weak their Primarch doesn't even need a head to fight for Empy.
Next thing you know a bunch of headless IH are stomping around on battlefields.

Well that goes without saying. But see the following:
>Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and there's nothing wrong with asking for help when starting out

If someone makes a thread or a post in the vein of 'hey guys, I'm starting 30k and I've been reading the rulebooks/doing some research, but I need some tactical advice/there's some things I don't understand' then that's no problem. I'll be happy to help that person, as I'm sure anyone here would be. What I take issue with are the people in essence saying 'guys I want to get into 30k spoonfeed me everything' or 'what Legion should I play/what's the best Legion/does this still use 40k rules?'. As I said you can call it elitism, and I admit that it's a bit petty. But just because it's petty doesn't mean it isn't a valid frustration some 30k oldfags like me have.

It also made the game all but impossible to play in a lot of places. In towns where it's hard enough to get a 40k game going the thought of doing a 30k army and playing HH games was nothing more than fantasy. On top of that, not every FLGS owner is going to support people coming into their shop with nothing but models they bought on the internet. If the shop actually sells some of the models involved, well, that's a very different story.

>Consuls are bought as Centurions then upgraded into Consul of choice
This is not how wargear works, nor has it ever been.

30k was never good. People who hate new players were once just as new and clueless and asked all the same stupid questions themselves. Now that they've gotten to a position further up the ladder they look at new people and scoff at them, without realizing they were as stupid and made equally bad lists themselves.

Rather than belittle people, how about we help them? Because they're not gonna go away and you're just hurting your own hobby by creating divisions. I know it's hard, the human condition is one where we'd rather have less if the other person gets less as well, rather than give us both more.

>but their lack of thought or ability to use a simple search function is infuriating.

And then what? You get conflicting answers and when you decide, ok, I'll follow this advice, people will call them stupid for not going the other way or your list is stupid because you're not using the more optimal units.

Even though LotD are Ultra successors...
And even though bringing Primarchs back is fuctarded to begin with.

You sound like a dickhead.

>means they have that much more to spend on Quad Mortars, or Leviathans, or Lightning spam, or all the other things that just aren't fun to play against
They also have more money to spend on things that aren't those options, and many people do, if you actually read some of those posts from new players on B&C and dakkadakka.

>to see all the idiots making threads on 'how do i get into 30k?'
Given how often we get people in these threads building lists using outdated information from the wrong black or red book, I'd say it actually isn't that simple, and getting guidance on which books you need is fair.

>the types of people we switched to this system to get away from
So you didn't actually want to pick up 30k for its setting or rules, you just wanted to be part of a secret club? Maybe the new blood you resent so much actually want to play 30k for its own qualities, they aren't just looking to be a wargaming hipster like you apparently were.

But he's right:
>"Any Centurion may be upgraded to one of the following roles for the points cost listed, gaining any wargear and special rules, and abiding by any army limitations shown."

Consuls are upgrades to Centurions.

This. People talk about Consul like they're different units. They're not. They're just fucking Centurions. The Centurion IS the unit.

Yeah, but can't take say, a thunderhammer, and then upgrade it to a MoS saying "he took the TH before he became a MoS", all wargear and upgrades and whatnot it taken simultaneously.

Milita allies it is then.

So you're saying that WBs can take whatever consul they like to fulfill their LA rule, because all consul are and count as centurions?

Of course not, MoS denies them that use. But the point is that if you have a legion option which are available to Praetors and Centurions, can Consuls take those options?

You know that's not what I'm saying you miserable fucking cunt. Don't try to get cute.

This is about whether a Consul can take a Frost Blade or not. A Consul is a Centurion. Any Centurion can take a Frost Blade. Unless that specific Consul has a provision that prevents them from taking it, they can fucking take it. It's pretty goddamn simple. Should FW have said "any independent character" instead of what they wrote like they did in pretty much every other legion? Yes, because then people looking to argue over shit for argument's sake would have to look somewhere else.

Christ, you people are so dense sometimes.

No, because Consuls are a separate Centurions.
That said, we are arguing about rules from Inferno.
Someone should get FW to stream a game of TSons vs Wolves with talons allies, we might found out what the fuck

Or we could wait for Inferno.

Imperial Army Heavy Tank Brigade Armylist

HQ

Required to take 1 Armoured colonel, requires any Baneblade chassis, gains bs4, Superheavy command tank, can be upgraded in rank, has own warlord traits. Brigadier General gives him BS5, Fulgrim's pick-a-trait trick and can be chosen to hold allegiance to Army, Legion or Mechanicum. Army gives you a second Warlord Trait, but both must be rolled instead of picked, Legion gives all your superheavies BS4 without cost and Mechanicum gives you 6+ IWND on vehicles. All of these change your allies matrix

Can take an Ace Tanker as a non-compulsory HQ choice at +50 for bs4 and a choice of
-tank hunters
-monster hunters
-shred on blasts
-scout
-Superheavy Command Tank
-rerolling results on thunderblitz
Each Ace Tanker must be housed in a tank that doesnt house the Armoured Colonel or another Ace Tanker

If using Legion allegiance, a Tank Ace housed in a Superheavy costs +40 points instead

Troop

Imperial Armoured Troop-90 points for ten dudes in a rhino with lasguns, upgradable to stormtroopers in land raiders or 2x20 in carapace with axes in a CRASSUS. YOURDUDES^tm
Mechanicum Enginseer detachment-Contains 1-3 enginseers and 9-19 Servitor-thralls. Only the Enginseers are scoring, if the enginseer dies then the thralls are denial-only. Must take some form of dedicated transport.
Non-Compulsory-Malcador Variants and Valdor TD's, do not score

Elite

Stormblade-gains an extra shot when using Overload
Baneblade-can be uparmoured to 14/14/13, maximum move is 3" shorter
Stormhammer-Precision Shots on non-blasts
Lighter LRs barring conqueror
Axe or volkite Veletarii in Dracosans or Arvus, scoring

Fast Attack

Stormlord-once per game, can move and do All Power to Weapons! on the same turn
Hellhammer-Outflank
Naval support-Avenger, Lightning, Thunderbolt
LR Conqueror

Heavy Support

Thunderer, Destroyer TD, Siege LRs
Shadowsword-reroll D results of 1
Stormsword-Shred on main cannon

LoW
Legion superheavies

>A Consul is a Centurion.
So WBs CAN take a Champion or whatever to fulfill their LA rules, cool.
Unless you're saying Consuls are Centurions for SWs, but not for WBs.

>No, because Consuls are a separate Centurions.

So a Consul can't take Centurion options?

We tried that, it didn't work.
Unless FW is reprinting it, with the errors fixed, for general release.

Intentionally or otherwise, I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Not all new players are bad. In fact, I'll say the majority are not bad. Fuck, if there's no new players this game'll die and then the multiple stupidly-expensive 30k armies I've wasted my money on'll be useless, of course I don't want that. There's nothing wrong with asking for help and there's nothing wrong with making mistakes when starting out. I'm happy to help newbies, but God damnit at least try and prove you've shown some initiative first.

I know B&C has a very well laid-out, stickied thread explaining exactly what books you need for what Legion/Army. If you don't frequent there then go to the Forge World website, search under the 'Horus Heresy Army Lists' tab and it's not difficult to figure out what you need (unless you're playing either of the Angels, the Scars, the TSons or the Yiffs. Those players I can understand being confused and again, I'm happy to help them). It wasn't about being part of a secret club or being a 'hipster', but when it started there was a general sense that the people who were into 30k did so because they cared about the setting and the lore of their faction. For the majority of newbs I'm sure there's still the case, but let's not pretend they didn't bring with them a lot of 40kfags who want something new to powergame. I know anecdotes are useless evidence, but in my experience at least ever since Calth there's been a rise in what you could call the 30k Netlists of Quad Mrotars/Leviathans in Pods/etc in my area. It just makes me a bit sad.

But people are probably getting sick of this so I'll shut up. made a good point when he said that it's at least easier to get a game now; that was a valid issue, one that could have probably been solved in part by GW selling Forge World in their stores, but eh.

Can't be any worse than my Titan Battlegroup List. Warlord Titans as Non-Compulsory troops. Warhound Titans as Fast Attack. I might post the complete list someday.

So to take our minds of inferno, i decided to write up an Imperial Army list for those of us who simply want to use our trash superheavies left behind from when Baneblades were actually worth something.

I was stuck on a train for 11 hours in rural australia, forgive my autism and lack of balancing ability

Additional rules include
For each Baneblade Chassis beyond the second, an extra compulsory troop is required
The Specialist Tank rule next to Baneblade-chassis is automatically gained for your Armoured Colonel
Can purchase a list of tank upgrades i'll write up tomorrow