Homeworld lore & setting

>Homeworld MMO
>Start in a scout ship and can work your way up to a heavy destroyer
>Motherships are reserved for guilds and expensive as fuck
>Visiting the galaxy
>Landing on planets and exploring/warring
>Multiple factions to choose from
>A full chat client to argue which homeworld was best

A game were I play as some simple asteroid miner/ wreck recycler would be cool. Homeworld managed to be very comfy and personal despite its scale.

>meanwhile, HW1 had something like 60 pages of fluff at the beginning of the manual.
The golden age of cardboard boxes.

I've heard that a lot of HW2 fluff was in the official strategy guide, though.

That would be a pretty cool game.

As for HW3 potential Im not sure. Homeworld 2 had a lot of closure to it. Something big would need to happen. The hyperspace network established at the end of HW2 would need to fall.

As for multiplayer (which is what HW was all about for me) All I really would want is 3 races, and for the game to be a little more "realistic", like bombers could be armed with nukes or something. In HW2 it took way to long to kill capital ships with anything other than your own capital ships, and BCs were wayyyyy to powerful vs destroyers.

So Eve Online: Homeworld Edition?

One thing I really liked about homeworld 1 was the lack of upgrades. You don't have to spend forever and a half on a few hundred upgrades to keep your fleet relevant. Once you're capable of building the ships you're set.
A scout or interceptor at the start of the game is just as useful as it is at the end of it. They're already balanced.

Upgrades worked for Cataclysm. As a mining kiith they started out with equipment inferior to HW1 ships in most respects. Plus there had to be development to fight the beast. That doesn't mean it's not a pain in the ass in multiplayer.

Would anyone here like to see a prequel where you play as the Taiidan Empire in the opening throes of the first great war ? During the time when the Hiigaarans found a hyperspace core and wen't full invasion mode. I think it would give the first games a more sobering grey perspective in the portrayal of the Taiidan rather than "lol evul decadent Empire".

Doesn't hurt that the taidaan are the most aesthetic faction either.

>Third mission of HW1 starts with "Kharak is burning" to punish the Higarans for leaving Kharak
>You are one of the last children of your homeworld, and the captain of a mothership, leader of your people
>Third to last mission of HW3 ends with "Taiidan is burning" to punish the Taiidan for fighting the Higarans
>You are the captain of a mothership, last of the children of your homeworld, Emperor of your people
I can dig it

Honestly I'd rather see a HW2 prequel about the Vagyr and the aftermath of the Higaaran/Taiidan war. Play as Makaan or a lieutenant of Makaan and uniting all the vagyr tribes to set for HW2's surprise assault

I might be wrong, but I think the Taiidan got rolled by the Vaygr, conquered or absorbed into the horde. Vaygr ship designs have a bit of a Taiidan look to them.

Vagyr are literally Space Mongols
>Nomadic tribes
>United by a strong leader, with some religious overtones
>Steamroll one empire (the Jin dynasty) before taking on another empire (the Southern Song dynasty) in a mission to conquer all creation
>Makaan assumes the title Sajuuk-Khar as Temjuin assumed the title Genghis Khan
>Make use of advanced technology combined with superior sized armies to steamroll everyone, strip everything of use, and continue on with the conquest

p. sure that Vaygr have a lot of Turk in them. Their name even reflects the Central Asian Uyghur. And the Mongols weren't overly religion-driven, were they? I don't know an incredible amount about either, since I'm a pleb.

I wouldn't mind upgrades in HW1. Gives a space to, say, to differentiate the boony-ass Frontier Fleets from the elite Imperial Guard. And it opens up rewards like teching up salv corvettes with Ghost Ship hax.

The Khans always had a divine right as their justification for rulership, and claimed the whole world as divinely ordained to be theirs. Their courts were also generally open to all religions, mainly to keep subjects loyal and unafraid of losing their faiths.

I really want a Freelancer/Starlancer style spacesim in Homeworld. You start with a single fighter, and have to pay RUs or whatever currency to book passage on hyperdrive capable ships to cross interstellar distances. Till you can purchase something capable independent travel across the hyperspace routes; still you lack the capability to hold other, ai controlled ships in your modest destroyer. You grow larger, past frigate, destroyer and battleship to acquire a carrier; mining, fighting and trading on a scale exponentially larger than where you started. But you must grow larger, and so you buy or forge a fleet, purchase orbital installations, mines, merchant contracts and letters of marque. Basically single player EVE now that I think about it, but with Homeworld style ships and music

Keeping in mind Shipbreakers was originally planned to be a mmo.

Was it ? I had the feeling it was more a MP focused RTS where you managed your crew in more detail.

Still, when the trailers came out I assembled and ran a game based around the Shipbreaker teaser, it was made like what I expected the game to be at that time.

To play as the Subotai for Makaan? Sounds cool.

There is an "official strategy guide" pdf somewhere? All I can find are expensive paper copies.

Paper, dammit.

Ya know, that design, even if a bit cheesy, is better than "Everyone is a Human White Guy\Gal" that HW2\DoK went for. I'm probably as far away from a SJW as they go, but I'll admit that Space Middle East With Weird Aliens (Dune-like) would have made it a tad more interesting.

Not everyone in DoK was white, the Kapici's Sobani rep was a black woman. It's just nearly the entire crew were S'jet, which are apparently white.

>tfw the other colors were eradicated in the burning of kharak

>Warrior kiith represented by a black person

Oh man, I used to be so into Homeworld lore... Writing cheesey teenage fan fiction on the Sierra forums and sort of becoming the recognized expert on one random kiith mentioned only briefly in the manual for hw1

I always wanted a first-person or squad-based game where you played as the space marines that board ships to be captured. Kinda like c&c Renegade but in spaaaace

>Homeworld 2 will never be erased from history so the series can have a clear way to the future

If you remove all the religious undertones of the story, it's literally "Hey, there's a progenitor battleship out there, let's use it to murder this warlord and hey, there's the keys for a intergalactic trade network in the cup holder."
It's not even a full story in itself, only like the first or second act.

You wouldn't still have those cheesy teenage fanfics, perchance?

>Broke: Taidaan empire apologism.
>Woke: Ignoring the sequels and accepting the Taidaan as the canonical exiles.

Kushan empire sounds more menacing, and the Taidaan aesthetic looks more suited to desert nomads who just discovered space travel. The sequels suck, Bite me.

>desert nomads who just discovered space travel
But they've had actual civilization for centuries by that point. That's the whole point of the Kushan aesthetic, that their ships are fat and utilitarian to contrast with the animalistic look of the Taiidan.

>Kushani space bananas are utilitarian

No user, you are the bait.

GLORY TO TAIDAAN!!!!!!!

Seriously though if the sight of one or two of these orbiting your world doesnt make you shit yourself i don't know what the fuck is wrong with you.

I would like to see a full retconn/reimagining of HW2 considering how badly it fucked the franchise over.

>Not using the high-def version
user, pls

>Using the version that is a fucking shadow of the true raw power that was the HW1 Qwaar-Jet.

Removing Physics based combat is an unforgivable crime.

>Ignoring Kusha fat whale carrier
>Ignoring "cockpit to one side, gun in the middle" fighters to contrast with Taiidan wasps
>Ignoring simple corvette fan shape to contrast with the Taiidan bigger wasp
>Ignoring Kushan is-this-a-fucking-cargo-boat frigates constrasting with Taiidan space-rhino-with-guns frigate
>Ignoring Kushan 'totally-not-a-Warlock' destroyer contrasting with Taiidan 'imma-put-spines-on-the-top' destroyer
>Ignoring Kushan wide load heavy cruiser contrasting with Taiidan shark-whale heavy cruiser

They kind of recoded it back in about a year or so ago.

I remember vaguely reading about dudes who were basically disavowed pirates who hunted down Taiidan(?) dudes, and were paid for the effort, but I can't remember if it was Homeworld. I'm positive it was, though.

Anyone know what I'm rambling about?

They "readded" formations. They did not add back in Physics based combat. If they DID then frigs would not be made of tissue paper set on fire, and hits would not be based on fucking RNGesus.

Y'know looking at the two i swear the Hi-res model looks shorter somehow.

Turanic Raiders?

Seriously though HW2 left the franchise both in ruins and "solved" as in it would take some kind of horrendous bullshit that utterly destroys suspension of disbelief to make another plot for a HW3 as it stands right now.
The problems left behind by the plot of HW2 go far beyond, "The good guys saved the day and made everything better FOREVER!!!!1111oneXD". As i said in the last thread on this subject, the Eye of Deus Ex Machina literally destroys both gameplay flow and plot flow from a story perspective. Even IF we assume that Karan S'Jet doesn't have sole control over the Gate Network (and thereby soft power across the entire Galaxy), incredibly unlikely due to the fact that the entire time period is called the Age of S'Jet, it still ruins the travels and travails of a fleet of ships across space because you HAVE to use the Gate Network to be an effective military. Using the "normal" Hyperdrives, something which at this point is probably considered a sublight engine due to the superhighway of the Gate Network, in light of the advent of said network means that you will never even be able to properly defend your own territory, much less make advances into enemy territory to try and win the war.

This map of the Homeworld Galaxy in the wake of the Vaygr War and the opening of the Eye of Arran (which as far as my retarded ass can tell is the most accepted one out there), is entirely inaccurate on account of said Eye of Arran giving whomever controls is a titanic military advantage. For example, the Taidaani Imperial Fragment would not exist within 10 years due to being attacked from two entirely different directions. The Higaraans could use said network to give them jump-off points at both the Tandall and Khabbada Gates and obliterate the Taidaani in a massive pincer movement while the Taidaan need to stretch themselves thin trying to defend both their normal western flank and the attack from behind, out of the Galactic Rim.

(Cont.)

Physics based combat?

The guns in homeworld one fired actual projectiles. Rather than calculating hit/miss odds based on arbitrary modafiers, they would aim at the target and fire a physical projectile. This made friendly fire a possibility, and allowed evasion to work more realistically.

HW2 had none of this because it was a shitty game.

>Y'know looking at the two i swear the Hi-res model looks shorter somehow.

The remastered edition has a graphics setting that causes parts in the distance to shrink less than they should, so you can easily identify ships at a distance.

Mucks around with the proportions in a subtle way when you try to look at any one thing at 3/4 angle.

(Cont.)

The Turanic and Vagyr would Also have significant inroads being made into their space due the presence of Gates deep within their territory.

Now all of the fanfiction for the "Dust Wars" era, as i have heard it called, basically completely ignores the effect that these Gates would have upon the Galaxy. For instance trade is dramatically improved and is much safer due to the instantaneous nature of Gate Travel vs Hyperdrive Travel. So the Turanic Pirates really don't have anything to feed upon for their own kingdoms to form around, meaning that you have eliminated them as a potential bad guy in your HW sequel. If the Turanics try to attack the gates or, somehow, the Eye of Arran you can literally dump fleets deep into their backyard and annihilate their industrial base, what little they have. They cannot destroy said Gates, no one can apparently.

A GREAT potential plotline for HW3 that doesn't expose the series to even more ridiculous setting creep (ie, Upping the power level of the setting to ridiculous levels like the jump from HW1 to HW2 just to raise the stakes), would be for the Taidaani to try retaking their Homeworld from both the Vaygr and reassert their power within the Galaxy, maybe during a period of internal conflict within the Higaraan Diamid between say the Sobani and the S'Jet/Nabaal. However, due to the absolute control the Karan apparently wields over Higaraan society means that this is no longer possible.

Another huge fucking misstep that the plot of HW2 made was the retarded death of the Bentusi. The fact that the Bentusi and the Higaraans fought over the Cores before the Exile made for a really good tale, even if the Higaraans getting to keep their Cores because "guilt" was fucking retarded. Now with the Bentusi dead and the Vaygr, Turanics and Taidaani neutered/soon to be dead. the ONLY power remaining within the Galaxy is the Higaraan Empire and by extension Karan S'Jet.
(Cont.)

I get what you're saying and for the most part it's true, if you're seeking a large epic story. You'd have to pull something along the lines of more Precursors arriving from their home galaxy or whoever made Naggarok.

However, there is still room for smaller stories. Keep in mind Cataclysm was literally "a group of miners stumble onto and have to deal with a nightmare from beyond the stars". A situation where throwing massive fleets at the problem is the worst possible thing you can do. You have to scale the stories way back and make them more personal.

But yes, HW2 did have too much of a happy ending (aside from the fact that they literally abandoned the mothership in the middle of fucking nowhere so they could run off with the Precursor battleship (Why did this thing even need 3 long jump cores, it was a flying gun, it couldn't even produce anything)).

(Cont.)
And since Karan has total control over the Gate Network, and is apparently Immortal for all intents and purposes, AND has a dominant role over the Diamid (some-fucking-how magically, fuck HW2 was stupid), it is going to be very hard to unseat the Higaraans from their position of dominance. A good setting for plot to take place in this does not make. Hell if shit like this is all we are going to fucking get for backstory without having to force it out of whomever develops HW3, I'd would honestly prefer it to remain buried so i don't have to learn to HATE HW.

Any story that takes place is going to have to take place before the Vaygr War. And be bound to the previously established lore, most of which is the utterly retard HW2 lore.

All the bullshit in HW2 with the Farjumper cores, the religious symbolisms, everything with the precursors/sajuuk prophecy, the Eye of Aran, and the stupid shit with the T-Mat motherships on the final level and even the backstory on why the Hiigarans were exiled was handled extremely poorly, so much so that I don't think that HW2 should even be considered a HW game.

I FOUND THE HOMEWORLD 2 WORLDBUILDING MANUAL

I wanna see who the fuck owned this ship. It just happened to be traveling over Kharak, an off limits planet under pain of death by the Taidaan Empire, when the Farjumper expelled excess energy and pulled it out of the sky.

Seriously were they smugglers? Where they pirates trying to take advantage of the Exiles' plight? Whom the fuck where they?

I had assumed they were 3rd party representatives from the larger galactic community, checking in to see if the Higs weren't being enslaved or something.

Glorious, user

I assumed it was just one of the ancient Hiigaran ships that brought them to Kharakh, and it got fucked up and crashed

It may just be an older model taiidani patrol ship or maybe one of the other races, the core's been doing this shit for a very, very long time.

Noice

There didn't seem to be a great threat either, like in HW1 when Kharak is being consumed by a firestorm, with no signals left, not even beacons

Alright. So using the characters and set pieces given to us, how would you rewrite Homeworld 2?

DUST WARS
U
S
T

W
A
R
S

Considering Dust Wars has different characters and mostly different set pieces, that's not what I asked.

Nice!
Now, who got the Cataclysm and 1 PDFs? I forgot to download them last time they were shown.

Homeworld 1 manual

I got them.

Based on it having cargo inside it, id say they were salvagers who found the remains of Khar-Toba and her sister ships in orbit and started salvaging them, then she got pulled down and now you can see her innards all over the desert.

Thank you kind anons, have some Homeworld 1 art.

Remove the special hyperspace cores from the setting and just have the Vaygr be a race that found and reverse engineered Progenitor technology which is giving them an edge. Hyperspace tech is revealed to be Progenitor technology that was spread throughout the galaxy in the distant past.

Plot continues as normal, sans the Bentusi getting killed for no reason and the Pride of Hiigara finds Sajuuk which they use to fend the Vaygr off along with their Mothership forcing the Vaygr to retreat. Instead of a galaxy wide portal network Sajuuk's systems contain the coordinates and access codes of a single portal that appears to be linked to another Galaxy.

Also it's revealed that the Progenitors originally came to the galaxy via said portal and that the Bentusi knew about it the whole time but kept it secret. Hints are dropped that the Bentusi were around when the Progenitors still existed and may actually be a remnant of them.

Side missions set after the game involve a Taiidan carrier fleet attacking the remnants of the Vaygr fleet to try and reclaim territory.

So Homeworld is canonically set in M51a, or the Whirlpool Galaxy. This galaxy is aboutique 23 million light years away from Earth. Since the Galactic maps we've seen look identical to how the Galaxy looks to us right now that would imply that the event of Homeworld are occurring 23 million years ago around the Oligocene or Miocene eras.

So
>A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

Nein.

Cata manual. You are thinking of the crazy guy who was the only survivor of his kiith, and lost his wife to the Crio pod bombardment. Then he got out and discovered his entire culture was bombed to oblivion, and he was alone as a dog.

He went out declaring blood feud to the Empire and started hunting down former Taiidaan officers.

At least, that's what I think you mean. God, I've read that manual a DECADE ago.

This.

I think they were trying to go for a Star Wars-ish feel like but honestly HW doesn't have anything to do with us at all.

I will check

So, because of the last thread, I got Deserts of Kharak, and I made a complaint that it was a bit too easy.

Then I got onto mission 9, the one where you have to defend the Sakala from enemies, and ouch, got jerked up short a couple of times. I keep losing the friendly carrier, or taking unacceptable losses trying to save it.

Anyone have any tips?

...

>Removing the Cores.
>Keeping Sajuuk.

NO! Sajuuk existing as an invincible starship is blatant setting creep (and just plain fucking stupid). Just like the Cores are blatant setting creep. Adding in these things removes the tight focus that HW1 had, and it negates the effect that Cata had as well. You need to rewrite the plot as a whole. The only thing you could potentially keep in are the "Cores" but their functions need to be dramatically different. Also due to the plot of DoK we kind of have to deal with the fucking things. (Fuck everything i hate this gay earth.)

Firstly yes they can far jump but there is no stupid fucking prophecy about them. Far Jumping is the only thing that makes Genghis Kh....i mean Maakan a threat to the Inner Rim of the Galaxy. Him being able to jump in a style of warfare reminiscent of Mongol warfare is why he is so stronk.

Secondly, NO SAJUKK OR GATE NETWORK. The idea of old Progenitor Far Jumper cores is salvageable because, at the VERY least, it doesn't end all other plot progression in the setting. These two things do. As i have explained earlier in the thread these two concepts do far more damage and "solving" of the HW setting than anything else introduced into HW2. Maybe you can have the Bentusi take all of the cores and lock them away somewhere after Makaan is defeated so that none may use them ever again.

Thirdly, after this game the focus of the HW franchise can no longer be on the Higaraans. They are no longer the underdogs. They cannot be the underdogs due their immense power and influence over galactic affair. In essence they have take the role that the Taidaani had before the Exiles returned. If the Higaraans are the focus again it should be another sub factions during a time of political strife among the Diamid, or the Sobani/Paktau deciding, "Fuck the Central Government, they are penises." and the events thereof.

Mortars and railguns parked on the ridge.
Also spam them missiles.

I like Sajuuk, though not because its an invincible ship. All HW fluff indicates pretty much everyone worships Sajuuk, which is mysterious, since everyone from the Kiths, Taiidan and the Vagyr think of him as god. I have no idea how you salvage him being a ship that isn't stupid.

For a third game I'd sure like to see history repeating itself:

>Pax Hiigara established
>Hiigarans use far jumpers to bully the galaxy into peace
>Galaxy resents, someone starts a thousand little skirmishes, overwhelming Hiigarans and their capacity to impose a ceasefire with force

Just like the Bentusi pre-HW1

I always thought the idea that the cores were long jump to not make sense considering the rest of your fleet can keep up and random strangers coming to meet your fleet to join or supply or whatever. They had no trouble keeping up. So my idea was that the cores were more like.. an air(space) traffic control system and navigation system, Without it, you're destination will be a little more random. With one, you can jump your fleets and general traffic with precision sand safety. The Tiidani would have had one and the Vayger found one and that's why they can wage war so effectively. This also fits with what the core was doing in DOK, giving nearby ships bad hyperspace directions.

How about call the megalith that is in tons of pieces Sajuuk?

Not sure about the rest, but the jump your fleet aspect was covered as the great cores also allowed you to jump other ships to/with you. That's what the bentusi did when the ancient hiigarans attempted to destroy bentus

the story repeats then, yeah it works with the hiigarans as the bad guys

>karan actually died, hiigara gone full empire
>you gotta command a fleet of many difrent nations/species againts the abusive regime
hiigarans figth you with progenitor derived tech and, as a final boss, sajuuk itself

the game would be all about tactial genius the shit out the enemy

The only decent idea I had was Sajuuk is a giant dyson sphere, with tons of wreckage inside that has to be bypassed through 3D fleet movement, but I couldnt come up a with a good reason to go to Sajuuk. Maybe Makaan goes crazy finding out God is Dead, and commits suicide by engaging the Higaran fleet with just his mothership. Then you race back home to defend Higara from the unleashed Vagyr hordes, and try not to die but you still win the mission if you die, so long as you meet a time limit for other Higaran fleets to arrive

i belive i found a way to unfuck homeworld secuel potential
since the hiigarans pretty much have the galaxy by the balls, have them regress to the ancient hiigaran empire
a bunch of asshole to keep it short
whould be about a rag tag fleet of whatever can be put together from a rebellion and try to bring down the regime
easiest way? destroying sajuuk
so you go looking on the progenitor graveyards for clues, profecies, blueprints, ANYTHING to defeat the god-ship
it would allways be a small fleet (yours) againts a unknow enemy (search missions) or a superior force (hiigaran empire)
i dont know how to give it the mithological/old epic flavor though

The problem with that is the Eye of Arran. Its not JUST singular far jumper fleets you have to worry about anymore. The entirety of the Higaraan Navy now has far jump capabilities, and they can deny those same abilities to everyone else. Literally any of the Gates will have a ridiculous amount of Higaraan/Progenitor ships surrounding it. And those fleets can reinforce each other at a moments notice.

Its incredibly hard to Tactical Genius(TM) the shit out of someone when they move faster than you ever could and at a greater distance than you can reach.

well you can use places like the garden of kadesh and reinfoce it with innhibitors
that will knock down any far jump advantage

The Gate Network is immune to Gravwell Inhibitors. It IS a network of Gates uses a different dimension, at least that's what I've heard, So it bypasses all of that shit. That's what allows for it to be so utterly bullshit when compared to other types of FTL in HW.

there is the justification on early game of the hiigaran empire whould be corrupt and arrogant
so the rebel fleet would have some time to build up forces and teck from the progenitor ruins

plus those naturaly innihbiting phenomenat would be insolated from rest of the galaxy, right?
so they would have to actually jump in a search pattern rather than just straigh over them

I figured the gate network worked like the balcorra gate, and it could shoot you halfway through the galactic core no problem. Nothing anywhere else in the galaxy is gonna interfere with jumping near as much as the galactic core.

Alright so if the Rebels win then what? They take the eye from the Higaraans and become the big bad guy themselves? That's yet another problem with the Eye of Arran, it focuses the entire setting upon the network of Hyperspace Gates, all of the fighting takes place over and around the Gates/Eye, because of the titanic advantages it offers to its controller no sane entity would even attempt to destroy it. I don't know about you but playing the same game over and over again seems awfully boring to me. Its why the Eye/Sajuuk are the utterly unsaveable parts of HW2. Even the Cores allow for much conflict over them as precious game changers, and the Cores allow for a Bentusi style weakness of can't be everywhere at once. The Gate Network + how much horseshit Sajuuk is DON'T!

well, i supose that its not the eye works in a similar manner that the gate of balcora does, a two way bridge
the only far jumper i know its the sajuuk with all cores

>I have no idea how you salvage him being a ship that isn't stupid
easy. Sajuuk was just a particularly notable ship, stories if its power became legends as time went on and no one actually saw it. Eventually the myths morphed it into a god.

Gods, space battleships, same difference. both dwell in the heavens and cast down their wrath upon the nonbelievers.

This.

Making the religion of the various factions a sort of "cargo cult" built around some Progenitor relics that turn out to not have any actual spiritual significance would fix a great deal of the weirdness that HW2's ending had.

In fact, the discovery that Sajuuk is just an abandoned space ship could set things up for instability or break-up of the Hiigaran Empire in a sequel. Like, you could get a schism among the believers where some worship Karan S'jet as a sort of god-empress after she took command of the Sajuuk towards the end of HW2, while others see her as false prophet and hold to a purely metaphysical/esoteric view of their god, while others accept that the ship is Sajuuk but respond to that by losing their religion.

You could have HW3 start some decades after the end of HW2 with fanatics of the esoteric branch of the religion commit an act of terrorism against the Eye of Arran, crippling the hyperspace gate network, which plunges the galaxy into chaos.

I always thought Sajuuk was just the name the Hiigarans and Vaygr put to this fancy progenitor battleship they found. Is there anything that actually says this ship is the Sajuuk of legend? Is "S.S. Sajuuk" painted on the bow somewhere? Why are they naming this flying space gun after their god of "I hope you fucking like sand!"?

thats actually a fair point, sajuuk in mith is a foreg god, he made EVERYTHING in myth

a factory ship or a planetcraker would make more sense