"So, if I'm understanding your deal, Erebus, if I swear allegiance to these warp entities of yours...

> "So, if I'm understanding your deal, Erebus, if I swear allegiance to these warp entities of yours, they'll heal the poisoned wound I got on Davin's moon?"
> "Oh, yeah. Absolutely. They're just thrilled to have you on board."
> "Can you give me a rundown on them? You know, just quick bullet points?"
> "Sure. So, there are four big ones; there's Khorne, the god of war and rage, Slaanesh, the god of pleasure and decadence."
> "Sounds good so far. I like war, and I like liking things. Who are the other two?"
> "Other two?"
> "Yeah, you mentioned there were four big ones. Khorne and Slaanesh are two; who are the others?"
> "Oh. Yeah. Um, there's Tzeentch."
> "Pump the brakes. Who is Tzeentch?"
> "The, uh, god of plots and trickery."
> "Good plots?"
> "The best plots. He plots better than anyone else."
> "Now, are these the kind of plots that would benefit me?"
> "... Sure. Yeah. Totally."
> "You hesitated there for a second."
> "99% of the time, I mean."
> "What about the other 1% of the time?"
> "He, ah, turns you into a mouth. Or maybe a bird. Usually it's a mouth."
> "So, statistically speaking, every time I call on Tzeentch, there's a 1 in 100 chance I get turned into a mouth or bird?"
> "Oh, no, he says you won't. Special deal, for you. He gave me very clear instructions."
> "... This isn't inspiring a lot of confidence, here, buddy. Who's the last guy?"
> "Nurgle."
> "And who is Nurgle?"
> "The god of disease. And poison."
> "Any relation to Nurg-leth?"
> "Some. A little. Yeah, they're like, the same guy."
> "So the guy who stabbed me on Davin's moon, with a poisoned dagger, was working for a god of disease and poison, who killed my Sons of Horus and my garrison, all so that I can sell my soul to a god of schemes and trickery, who wants me to kill my dad and plunge the civilization I've helped build into a bloody civil war? And the alternative to this is dying honorably from a war wound, the way I've always imagined?"
> "..."
> "..."

Defend this plot hole.

Look buddy do you want to live or not?

Nurgle's a pretty likeable guy, I'm sure they had a good chat and put their past grievances to rest.

It's fucking terrible characterization.

Horus should have been out on the fringe for like 30 years without the emperor, loyally doing his will, only to return for resupply and realize the Imperium is developing and his role someday as conqueror will be over. That in the end, he's a tool for the Emperor's ambitions of a human empire ruled mostly by weaker men.

Then that gnaws at him. And he decides, with the whisperings of advisors like Erebus, to rebel. Then Erebus offers more weapons to use vs the emperor, like these allies from the warp.

Instead of 'I got poked by an evil knife then went to a coma where I woke up evil.'

>"You know what, I'll just get into a stasis field, head back home to Terra and ask dad about this. I'm sure he knows a bit more about my physiology than doctors in what's basically a field hospital or some tribesmen in a stone hut."

Yes, because man suffering from poison, a warmaster with shit to do no less has time to formulate a proper FAQ list.

All he really needed to do was find out what happened to the Thunder Warriors.

Legions of genetically enhanced soldiers. Used as fanatically loyal weapons by the Emperor. All of them developed from the Emperor's own genes.

And they were betrayed and discarded when the Emperor no longer had a use for them.

If that's not a big warning sign for the Primarchs, I don't know what is.

A thread died for this shitpost.

Let's see how good you do after getting poked with a knife.

Who would win in a fight, Big E or like four Erebuses?

He lived with the Emperor on Terra for most of his youth and while the Great Crusade was starting. Surely the Emperor had a word or two about the future of the Imperium with his most beloved and trusted son.
And then there's another thing: The primarchs and their legions were made with innate abilities they could use in service of the future Imperium. Statesmen, diplomats, scientists, architects, all that stuff. And there would still be aliens out there, so even a guy like Angron and the Lion would still be useful. They would have had a place in the Imperium.
Unlike the Thunder Warriors, who were psychologically and biologically unstable. They were discarded because the Emperor, with much more resources after conquering Terra, was able to create far better versions of the Thunder Warriors, who could actually survive the Great Crusade and have a role in the future.

And any thread that would've fucking died would've already been on page ten. Eat shit. Fuck off with this dumbass meme.

>Horus should have been out on the fringe for like 30 years without the emperor, loyally doing his will, only to return for resupply and realize the Imperium is developing and his role someday as conqueror will be over. That in the end, he's a tool for the Emperor's ambitions of a human empire ruled mostly by weaker men.

But they sort of did that in the first three books, didn't they?
>"Horus, I must go now and leave the Great Crusade to your control. All I can disclose about why I'm leaving are some vague pronouncements about how what I'm doing will irrevocably alter humanity's fate if it succeeds. So go out there and conquer me some worlds dammit"

Most of this fanfic is shit because that would imply that Fucking Horus didn't know about the existence of chaos when chaotic daemon invasion were already pretty common.

That's even more reason for falling to Chaos being bullshit.

I can't, it's stupid

>"Look here's a vision of the future where people are..."

>"HOLY SHIT THEY'RE WORSHIPPING MY DAD!"

>"Uhh yeah as I was about to say..."

>"HE WAS TRYING TO BECOME A GOD THE WHOLE TIME!"

>"Well yeah that's why you have to!"

>"I'M GOING TO DECLARE WAR ON MY DAD!"

>".... I thought convincing you would take more effort but I'm okay with this."

>A wild Magnus appears

>"MAGNUS I'M GOING TO DECLARE WAR ON DAD!"

>"No don't, this is just a trick!"

>"I think I would know if it was a trick Magnus... I'm not an idiot you know." - smug grin

>Big E = Big Erebus

yes, it's tragic people want to discuss the setting of a traditional game

Some Anakin class BS right there.

>IT'S OVER HORUS
>I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND

>HORUS CHAOS IS EVIL!
>Not from my perspective!

>the chaos gods have promised me the eradication of all sand if i ally with them!
>isnt a sand free existence worth fighting for not matter the cost?!

So Padme would be Sanguinius?

eh horus and the others had some ligitimate questions about what purpose they mighty warriors and proud generals would have when the war was over, emps realy should have explained his longterm plans better.

>president shares all secrets and concerns with high ranking generals
>hey thanks for having and raising me my parents! but im worried our relationship may change at some time in the future for some reason so ill just worship satan and kill you

there is no saving bl shit. stop trying

E's plan was to have everybody as huge as him, so there wouldn't be a problem post-war. Also, he wasn't aware of the bitches he fucked surviving and coming to term.

I think the point of chaos is that its corruption derails your thought process out of logical tracks

or at least that's how I justify the stupidity

I hated how he was essentially tricked or decieved into Chaos. Gave you no reason to support him. The better way would be for the Chaos Gods to show him some shady shit the Emperor was doing or for him to discover it, or even have Horus as a character who would never purge an entire planet but the Emperor orders him to and that turns him. Something that would make us sympathise with his character so on some level we might not agree with his choice but we can understand it.

The way its present in the books is just boring, you instantly turn away from Horus and theres no romance in it.

After reading master of mankind, I'm inclined to disagree. Even if they found roles after the crusade. The emperor only ever regarded them as tools. Any indication to the contrary was meant to placate their godhueg egos.
If they found this perspective out, as well as the fate of their predecessors. People like horus. I dunno man

>implying bl counts as lore
>implying there could ever be an end to conflict with a galaxy wide empire
>implying that the reason for their existence isnt to be a controllable version of the thunder roid rape machine war boys
>implying there is there ever was an end to conflict you couldnt just send them to another galaxy to conquer
>implying we dont have this situation in real life and just sovle it by using special forces as super cops
>implying the guard isnt the real organization that would be disbanded while the astartes took over their duties

The point is Chaos fucks with your brain. Chaos was never supposed to make sense, ever. Why the fuck would the second most powerful individual in the Imperium ever decide "well I think I'm done serving mankind now, its time for hell everywhere for all eternity"? Hell, if Horus just wanted to kill the Emperor and sunder the Imperium, he could have just waited until he next met the Emperor while on one of those military parade tours of the Great Crusade armies and shivved him in the back.

But no, Horus literally goes retarded. Thats the whole point of Horus as a tragic character.

>shiv the G*d-Emperor in the back
>But no, Horus literally goes retarded. Thats the whole point of Horus as a tragic character.

honestly your whole post is retarded and i can tell youre one of the new crop that the BL books brought in

The point isnt that chaos was the best option, the point was you could scare someone into betraying someone by making their ally seem to be doing the same thing.

It's a common trick.

Only a Daemon deals in absolutes!

...

I thought you were on some kinda role there until the last bit. No ig. That is by far and away the stupidest scenario I've ever heard in a culture that spans tens of thousands of world's. At their zenith there were maaaybe 2.5 million astartes. Yeah they can totally garrison/rapid respondevelopment to a galaxy wide culture.
Thanks for the greentext (you) but that's just asinine mate.

you know the guard and the PDF are different things right? and that the guard is almost never dealing with run of the mill bullshit, thats the local PDF taking care of it

youre acting like if i said there would be no more US air force and then yell at me saying how important the national guard, coast guard, police, etc are for peace and security

Demons were just classified as a warp based xeno species not as literal fucking demons.

I agree with this user. I think a couple more books in between the first and second (or even second and third) would have benefited the writing greatly.

>HH prequels when

We need more stuff like these for other important HH plot points

Yeah, but the President usually doesn't greet new generals while covered in the blood of the previous generals that he just got done slaughtering.

The issue with the Black Lightning portrayal is that most of the legitimate causes for dissent between the Emperor and Primarchs are ignored in favor of EVIL MAGIC KNIFE and daddy issues.

>The primarchs and their legions were made with innate abilities they could use in service of the future Imperium. Statesmen, diplomats, scientists, architects, all that stuff.
Then why alienate Erebus so hard for not wanting to be a soldier? Why not just say "okay, dude, we'll second most of your legion to Guilliman and you can just build schools or something."

>pump the brakes

goddammit now i'm reading this with pic related as horus

> "My glorious overlord, the work on the secret Primarch project is proceeding as expected."
> "EXCELLENT. TELL ME, HOW FARE MY CHILDREN?"
> "Perfectly, O Imperator. They grow inside their gestation tanks, ready to enact your will as soon as they finish growing."
> "ARE THERE ANY ANOMALIES OF NOTE?"
> "..."
> "..."
> "... No, my Emperor."
> "YOU HESITATED."
> "'Of note' might be a strong word."
> "I SHALL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT."
> "Well, Primarch III is very attractive, for a baby. That's noteworthy. Primarch XII is extremely angry, again, graded on a curve, as he's a baby as well. Uh, Primarchs II and XI are missing, and we have no idea where they are. Primarch VI appears to be a dog of some kind. Primarch IX has wings --"
> "YOU JUST SAID EVERYTHING WAS GOING PERFECTLY. WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO ME IS THE OPPOSITE OF PERFECT. WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO ME SOUNDS COMPLETELY FUCKED."
> "My Emperor, I was of course referring to the remaining 15 Primarchs, who are all perfectly formed according to your design. Oh, except for one of them, which is twelve feet tall and the color of Satan's anus."
> "FIFTEEN -- HOW ARE THERE FIFTEEN? THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TWENTY TOTAL."
> "One of the babies split into two twin babies, both of whom are piled in the gestation tube like superhuman tic-tacs."
> "I FEEL LIKE I AM TAKING CRAZY PILLS. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO CONQUER THE GALAXY WITH A DOG, SIAMESE TWINS AND A SEXY BABY WITH WINGS?"
> "My Emperor, we need but start over. We would lose our progress, certainly, but if price is no object --"
> "HOLD UP, HOLD UP, I SEE YOUR POINT. I'M MADE OF PSYKERS, NOT MONEY."
> "..."
> "..."
> "... Your orders, sire?"
> "FLUSH THEM IN A WARP RIFT SOMEWHERE. WE'LL SAY WE GOT SICK AND LOST THE BABIES. I AM NOT READY TO BE A FATHER."

>"Let's... Let's just not get all off-track about who stabbed who all..."

>I'M MADE OF PSYKERS, NOT MONEY."

keked harder then I should have

Probably because the Emperor of a galaxy-wide Imperium couldn't care less about the special needs of a single soldier. That's why there was a hierarchy, someone of higher rank than Erebus should have cared and found a way to help him incorporating whatever he wanted to do into the great crusade.
Lorgar could have done it, but he was too busy doing exactly the opposite of what the Emperor told him to do, and got assmad when he was told to stop doing it.

The best part is that huge gap would have easily fit in like, one chapter of timeskip.

Didn't really bother to read this thread just a reminder though that the best primarch has returned and everything's gonna be okay

Borrowing from another thread:

>Be Lhorke
>Be the Terran Legion Master of the War Hounds
>Get interred in a Contemptor prior to finding your primarch
>Find your gene sire
>He's a mutilated lunatic who wants to implant budget cybernetics into the brains of the entire legion
>Cant_pound_butchersnails_into_a_corpse.jpg
>Go to sleep for a couple years
>Wake up to find your primarch and your legion now burn entire cities for the sake of butchery
>Grow to actively mistrust your clearly unstable primarch
>Go to sleep for a decade
>Wake up to find that your primach has become a drooling axe murderer
>Go to sleep for a couple decades
>Wake up to find that your primarch has rebelled and taken your beloved legion with him, slaughtered hundreds of thousands of loyal legionaries, and his end goal is laying siege to your home planet and killing your Emperor
>Oh, and you were woken up because the Ultramarines are currently boarding the ship to put an end to this madness
>Guess I better kill them instead of helping take a rebel flag ship in the name of the Emperor

I mean seriously, what was Lhorke thinking?
If he wasn't a dreadnought, I'd say he's thinking with his dick and wants to get with Lotara. But he's an Astartes. They don't think with their dicks. And he's a dreadnought. And he expressly distrusts Angron. Seriously. Why Lhorke? Why? You could have had an awesome death, but nope. Daddy issues.

I'd like to see Lhorke go up against Angron in that scene. World Eaters butchering the Ultramarines like completely deranged madmen, screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD!", even tearing apart their own battlebrothers just for the sake of slaughter. And finally, Lhorke breaks. They are not his legion anymore, not his brothers. He fights through waves of Ultramarines and World Eaters, goes down to the planet and looks for Angron, the one who destroyed his legion.

I thought he kind of did that, except his rage was directed at Lorgar.

To be fair


Word Bearers a shit

I agree. I thought the whole point of "Horus Rising" was that Horus started having doubts about the Emperor the moment he was put in charge. Encountering the Interex messed with his faith in the Emperor's plan, and there were already large factions within the Crusade that resented the direction things were going.

Yeah, I wasn't sure what they were planning with Lhorke, since he seems like he should've ended up dead on Isstvan III with the other Terrans and loyalists

>I thought the whole point of "Horus Rising" was that Horus started having doubts about the Emperor the moment he was put in charge

I should've elaborated further and mentioned Horus' growing concerns that the Emps leaving the Great Crusade was really just about sitting on his laurels while Horus and the other primarchs and their legions did his dirty work.

>and daddy issues.

I always thought that could have been the result of whatever ingrained loyalty programming went into the primarchs

Chaos is just collecting on a debt that the Emperor weltched on.

You have to realise that the guys that end up writing for GW are the ones that failed everywhere else.
I think it should not be a surprise that it shows.

>tricked into chaos
It has a painful Anakin Skywalker vibe. The guy was essentially tricked into the dark side.

Sorry, I meant Lorgar, not Erebus.

Yes, Lorgar kept doing the Emperor-worship thing, but he also mentions in The First Heretic that he just didn't want to be a soldier. Didn't Perturabo also have a complex about constantly being forced to break shit?

>so dad, you pulled out my eternally pissed off brother because you were worried about the khorne corruption in his fellows?
>yup
>and he's literally retarded due to the shit that happened to him on planet?
>sounds right
>and this man you're pressing into military service has severe emotional issues as a result of his adopted family getting slaughtered and him being forced into slavery?
>glad you're keeping up, Leman
>...want us to go Kill him?
>nah