Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General thread

>A
But I like B/X magic. I just hate all those spellbooks left to rot in the battlefield...
>B
What if you get 100xp per level of difference? Average party level - enemy HD. Monsters of your level or less give the normal amount (or zero).

To be honest, I like B/X as it is, but I want faster advancement and I feel like halving the XP tables is way too much.
I love the very first levels, I'm sooo tired of playing at low level forever... and I get to play only rarely, so it feels really wrong to end a session with "ok guys so you get 7 xp each. see you next semester."

I don't understand your question :/

Great heroes can be found even here, in the mud and rain.

Strong drink, a game of chance, and companionship… the rush of life.

Some may fall… but their knowledge lives on.

Death waits for the slightest lapse in concentration.

How quickly the tide turns!

The bigger the beast, the greater the glory.

Injury and despondance set the stage for heroism...or cowardice.

This is no place for the weak or foolhardy.

Survival is a tenuous proposition in this sprawling tomb.

These nightmarish creatures can be felled, they can be beaten!

Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

The sin is not in being outmatched, but in failing to recognize it.

>I just hate all those spellbooks left to rot in the battlefield...
You didn't even read the thing I linked you.

Which is really annoying. I stitched that together in paint.
Took like 25 minutes!

>a Wargame about Tanks.
Ah, yes good old Tractics.

The OSR, like anything has a lot of meaningless buzzwords and half-baked memes. Ask 10 people and you'll get 20 answers.

>Weapon speed. Is it good, or is it wack?
It's shit.

Is there something like a 5e OSR?

The Black Hack uses Advantage and Disadvantage.

...

I'm what context?

The major thing worth taking from 5e would be it's combat framework (move, action, bonus action, reaction), and I don't know of any retroclones that make use of it.

Don't be like that, user. Already read that when you posted it previously (last thread?) and I plan to give my witchy NPCs some of those cantrips. Thanks for the effort btw!

But I REALLY like how B/X works. You have your own and very unique spellbook, containing your few and carefully selected spells (or rolled if your DM hates you). You are your spellbook, like a samurai with a paper katana.
Those Gygax houserules talk about spells you know and can use already, which is reasonable but out of bounds for a B/X caster. He wrote that from a AD&D point of view, I want something Basic. You either do or you don't, like everything else in the game.
And god forbid rolling a d% just to see if you get that 01.

I need to thank for the solo-stuff.

> What are the tropes of OSR?
There is only one trope I'm aware of.

You're welcome, user. Most of that was compiled by a different user, although I did help out.

>He wrote that from a AD&D point of view, I want something Basic.
Literally remove the line about having to know the spell. As written you already need Read Magic for captured books.

Do you give XP for non-shiny treasure? Stuff found in a dungeon or outright stolen that it's not coin/gem/jewel/etc.
IMHO it slows down the game a lot, and turns it into a full muerderhobo graverobbin spree. Cool for a bit, but the novelty wears fast.

Also, do you give a price when describing things?
>In the corner, a fine silver service worth at least x gp!
I always do, giving a very rough price of course - first to avoid the question "is that valuable?" and second to direct the PCs attention into what's important (in my game).

Of course! Deeds, stamp collection, exotic spices... the works.
Any I put a tapestry worth 200 silver in EVERY dungeon.

B-But why? I get that the logistics of getting all that from the dungeon and finding a seller can be fun, but it's not like.. super slow and grindy? Taking the focus away from "Adventure!" into "gritty bookkeeping minutae"?
Maybe I'm too used to play D&D like a roguelike :(

stamp collection sounds mad fun, tho.

Nah, I play it like a roguelike too.
Any character able to recognize it as treasure is able to find a buyer during downtime.
>B-But why?
It's great for conspicuous "hidden treasure."
Like how a leftover poisoned caltrop from a previous adventurer makes for a great conspicuous "trap".

What are people's oppinions on The White Box treasure rules?

So what's the role of Wizards in OSR?

They seem to be a bit of a mix of jack of all trades, the crafting class, the artillery class. It's very difficult to pin down or distill into something really base. How would you describe their role?

>How would you describe their role?
Panic button.

A bit too flat for my tastes. Treats all the monsters equally... and still has some problems for copying B/X like multiple rolls for different coins.
I really like the treasure types in B/X, they give a very 'natural' distribution - If you don't mind using a treasure roller*, that it, because they involve lots and lots of fie rolling.
This tables look a lot simpler, but still idk if I would stop a game to roll on them.

My ideal teasure-per-monster would be, for example:
-chance of having treasure 50%
-total treasure: d1000
If it has any treasure, roll d1000 and that's the total. Distribute into gp, sp, cp, ep, pp, gems and jewels and tapestry and whatever depending of what makes sense based on monster INT, encumbrance and volume of treasure.

* mithrilandmages.com/utilities/LLTreasure.php

Is there a reason why so many OSR bloggers use Blogspot instead of Tumblr?

I most often see them being played as pack mule, hauling the treasure so the players already wearing plate are even slower. If they got a good spell the most likely use is for an escape plan. They might also use a powerful spell to nuke toughest monster when something valuable is in sight or if the session is about to wrap up they use their spell to clear the way out of the dungeon faster.

because Tumblr is awful to search and read?

Most Tumblr styles have a strong focus on images and image sharing instead of long text posts. You also can't attach/host PDFs and the file size is also pretty restrictive (10MB for images, 1MB for .gif files). Also Tumblr has a reputation that many people don't care for. Lastly, it's easier to get Google AdSense on blogspot pages, but I don't think that matters as much as the other stuff I mentioned.

Speaking of Wizards; I've been spending the past two weeks trying to make Wizards in my game something I can be proud of, but it just isn't working out.

I believe partially because my personal views on how magic should be done is interfering with it. For example; I don't think Wizards should be the sole crafter of magic items. I think Fighters should forge magic swords by taking the blood of their biggest slain monster and mixing it with a meteorite's metal and cool shit like that. Thieves should take the shroud they were buried in, when they faked their own death, and take it to the dark place where no light has ever touched to create a cloak of invisibility. This is how I think magic should be, but it could also take away a lot of what makes the magic user special.

Do you think a similar system to this could still be used for OSR if magic users keep a specific focus, such as to spellcraft? Magic users could craft magic items too, but they'd either be weak trinkets, or equipment well suited to their actual class.

>[in Holmes] Wizard Lock can be bypassed with Knock "without breaking the wizard spell." So it stays magically locked if you let it swing shut[...]

How do you treat interweaving magic, /osr/? I'm tired of spell overrides spell.

Wizard's choise.

Unless if there is a magically powerful monster deep in the dungeon, like a demon, dragon, or ancient ghost. In that case, the spells work in whatever way it would want the most.

Am I the worst DM?
>always improv
>run straight donjon proc-gens liberally and without warning
>roll monsters hp after combat starts
>town time = 'here's this list, buy something' + smoke break
>B/X btb
>user, what's your encumbrance? Did you add that ring and the scrolls too?

I'm about to start a megadungeon. A seriously big one for what I'm used to. Any advice before I delve into this madness?

town time sounds dumb,
Towns are filled with people, and people talk about shit, steal from each-other, and have their own general problems.
Towns should be full of little plot hooks (perhaps so mundane the players wouldn't be bothered with it, But may choose to help)
Ie: A little girl is crying as a small boy runs away with her doll
*Explanation of where town buildings are*
So what do you do?

and encumbrance only matters when leaving a dungeon with all the loot
(It's more of a way to force players to share their items than to stop them from getting it)

put a town or small camp of people (Perhaps monster people like kobalds) in it, have them lost and trying to find a way thru with the party... But then they're just manipulating the party into a tricky situation.

>always improv
Sessions should be AT LEAST 60% improv, but 100% is right out.
>run straight donjon proc-gens liberally and without warning
You should feel bad. Or add least add nice puzzles.
>roll monsters hp after combat starts
I even do that *in front* of my screen.
>town time = 'here's this list, buy something' + smoke break
Unless you're handing out a hook (or people go fishing) that's tolerable.
>B/X btb
As in... no house-rules?? Y-You still make rulings... right?
>user, what's your encumbrance?
It's easy to track and they SHOULD keep it up to date.
>Did you add that ring and the scrolls too?
Did they that ring and the scrolls too?

Just do the first three floors.
Always start any dungeon with just three floors.
You should do the rest later.

If you REALLY want to get ahead of your self, draw how more floors connect to eachother.
Also make a note on the theme of each floor (or subfloor). But DON'T BOTHER with floor plans yet.

How to convert hex maps to square ones, /osrg/?

I'm making a D&D game on RPG Maker (that works with squares) and want to use hex maps from old modules

>the player isn't playing along with my script?
>I'll beat up his character with a mob and a DMPC, that'll show him!

Why was Gygax so antagonistic?

>act like a murderhobo
>play the game only to 'win' and give no consideration to the world
>be surprised when the GM makes NPCs react realistically to your metagaming

Basically: hexagons tile as squares that are half a side-length offset (in rows or columns depending on which way the hexes are even). Thus, the easiest way is to make the same number of squares and shift the contents of the hexes in alternate [rows/columns] half a step up or down.

However, this introduces some pretty serious distortion, especially if the coastlines (or any other feature for that matter) are drawn through hexes rather than following the hex borders, so for a really careful job you'd need to remove the hex grid and lay over a square grid, then correct hex contents by hand. But you can still use every other [row/column] as-is! This is surprisingly helpful in getting the other half right.

1: That rule smacks of Arneson. It's exactly his type of refereeing, and not very similar to Gygax's. AFAIK also most of the (relatively complex) non-dungeon stuff, like the castle building as well, was Arneson's work and fairly unchanged from his rules; I've heard claims that most of the rules he originally sent to Gygax were this type of material. Plus, his campaign seems to have been rowdier in that sense, with characters like the Gin of Salik and Marfeldt the Barbarian.

2: There isn't any mention of a script, just that you shouldn't hesitate to have the rest of the world react to PC shenanigans just becuase they're controlled by the players. You'll notice it's not even *disallowing* insane outrages, just advocating a suitably Hammerian response.

3: shit bait but you made me answer, so I guess you get 3/8.

You can:
-offset every odd row/column by 0.5
-overlay a hex grid on top
-fuck geometry, use squares I do that, players rarely notice. hexes are for grogs

Never thought of using RM for mapping, the autotiles are really comfy. Maybe I'll make a oldschoolish tileset and give it a try.

Does anyone have an image of the hex map for LotFP World of the Lost?

Way to balance Wizards without using daily limits? Or is it better just to keep to a spell slot/MP system?

It specifically calls out a PLAYER misbehaving, not a character. Why would a mob lynch my wizard because I cheetos with my mouth open?

>That rule smacks of Arneson. It's exactly his type of refereeing, and not very similar to Gygax's
AD&D DMG 1e has a similar rule on pp. 110 (and somewhere else I couldn't find on the subject of trapfinding), and Gygax promoted the use of "bolts from the blue" on dragonsfoot.

>I cheetos with my mouth open?
You deserve everything that happens to your character. I bet you don't even use coasters

>It specifically calls out a PLAYER misbehaving
Did you know that autism can cause severe difficulties with reading comprehension?

Spell slots are the just the spells that can be safely cast. Exhaust them and you lose HP equal to spell level to cast anymore.

>Or is it better just to keep to a spell slot/MP system?
Yes. People have been trying to find a
>Way to balance Wizards without using daily limits
for literally the entire time the game has existed, and so far nobody's ever succeeded.

I don't say this to discourage you -- for instance, you might decide that atmosphere is more important than balance, or that balance is ultimately washed away by every PC dying like a schmuck anyway if the player isn't good, as many OSR players do -- just to answer your question. It is super fucking hard, and if you're concerned with balance and playability you're genuinely better off sticking with the simple and gameable system in the books.

Personally I don't even understand what it is that gives people this insatiable aesthetic twitch to change Vancian casting, but I know it must be there since it's virtually universal.

You remember our ancient house?!

Opulent, and Imperial?

>Personally I don't even understand what it is that gives people this insatiable aesthetic twitch to change Vancian casting, but I know it must be there since it's virtually universal.

It's because Vanican casting, on the surface, *seems* extremely limited.

You mean the Wizard, the most of creative class, has these incredible restrictions on what their magic can do? Lame!

Think about another example; such as Merlin from Sword in the Stone here.
youtube.com/watch?v=7bd5YUEOwlE

This fucking scene is something that instantly pops into your head when you think of WIZARD in all caps because it's something a Wizard would do. Somewhat unnecessary, flashy, fucking awesome. With an emphasis on utility and funny or random rhyming and ritual. Why does he have to jump up and down and sing a song? That's part of the spell. So people question why there isn't a spell for this, and think Vancian magic is the fault of this and think it's lame and or boring.

HOWEVER

In truth Vancian magic is one of the most liberating kinds of magic because not only does the MU get multiple low limit spells per day that they MUST cast on low level spells, they can research or create their own spells. So if your magic user wanted to create a 'Higitus Figitus' packing spell, they totally could. I'd allow it at spell level 1 or 2, just because I think it's cool.

The second point is that it's limited on purpose. If magic users can just invent spells on the slot, it would greatly unbalance the game. The whole point of MUs is they are supposed to be preparing for danger ahead of time, because the game is a dungeon crawler, and they prepare spells for that purpose.

The truth is Vancian magic is not understood as to what makes it good, and if you want to get your players to enjoy it you need to explain why its good instead of just assuming everyone will understand the core underlying design philosophies.

...

Gazing proudly from its stoic perch above the moor?

I don't know how much this really plays into it, but recently I've seen a lot of people who are under the belief that in Basic the rules tell you to roll to get a random spell, but that's simply the case.

>and so far nobody's ever succeeded.

According to your definition of what succeeds or not, and since you are an OSR grognard fanboy none of them will ever be good enough according to you. Faggot.

Probably comes from people remembering the AD&D spell rules, and then noticing the handy numbers 1-12 next to the list.

Anyone here use the psychic phenomena/perils of the warp tables from Dark Heresy in Stars Without Number instead of the power points? It sounds like a neat flavor idea, but I'm not sure how well it would play out in practice. Might also be neat to use for magic, but the WHFRP magic system is probably too different from OSR to make a clean translation.

How do people like the 'number of spell slots equal to level, no daily limits, only first level spells exist' houserule?

Naw, I doubt that's it. People were whining about Vancian casting from the moment the LBB's came out, and in those (I believe this changed in Greyhawk) the implication seems to be that each M-U automatically gains access to all the standard spells of each level he can cast.

There's a great part in Playing at the World where he quotes some rando in an early Alarums & Excursions or maybe even a pre-Alarums fanzine being incredibly indignant that you can only cast each memorized spell once. (They had been playing "unlimited castings" due to the infamously opaque first-printing explanations and then written to Gygax for clarifications or something.)
This dude is utterly outraged in exactly the manner of an online sperglord, huffing about how Gygax doesn't understand his own rules, using all caps and too many exclamation points and so on. It's amazing.

>number of spell slots equal to level
>no daily limits
???
?
?????

Anything that lets you cast unlimited Sleeps or Charms will completely shit up the game until level 7 or so. Hell, even Magic Missile isn't balanced for infinite use since it autohits. OTOH, at mid-high levels suddenly M-Us become totally shit since they can no longer charm anything worth pushing into battle, and likewise their Sleep spells affect nothing. All they can do is plink very reliably with their missiles until they get killed first.

Couple threads ago some anons were compiling B/X into an even smaller format, any progress?

He means you prepare one first level spell per MU level, and can cast them all day.
Might as well nix spell slots and say you /know/ one spell per level. Even then, eww.

No, that is not what I meant.

What I meant was you can prepare any spell, up to a number of spells equal to your caster level or less. Once cast, the spell is lost and has to be prepared again as per normal, but there is no actual daily limit to how many spells you can cast. Still takes time to prepare spells over and over again though.

The idea behind this being you have to prepare a more powerful version of your spells to get better effects, meaning higher level Wizard either use multiple spell slots to improve spells or just try to cram in as many spell as possible.

Probably a result of people looking at LotFP or other games that mimic B/X and have you roll for spells, rather than actually looking at B/X.

How do you guys feel about MU specalization? Like Evocation, Divination, etc.

I dont like it, if you want to more niche spellcasters I would just drop MU and add a varied of classes.

>Weapon speed. Is it good, or is it wack?

How is this even a question? Best mechanic. Balances weak but fast vs slow but strong weapons easily, it's another interesting thing you could tie monster powers or magic items too.

Personally I prefer snappy rules, so instead of a set number for each weapon, your weapon damage size instead is your speed. Small is faster on average, but there is always that 1 in 10 chance that the greatsword user will spring into action.

You want some extra rules? Add your encumbrance points and the AC of your shield. Boom, easy initiative.

How much do you guys prep your town and villages beforehand?
I have a sand box setting in England for LotFP that i'm starting for my group with one city, four villages and one Dunnsmouth.

The setting contains the following modules Tomb of HR, Death Frost Doom, Dunnsmouth, and a Wizards Seclusium.

But I don't know how indepth to go on each of the towns and cities? Any tips?
Much appreciated.

I'm gonna be running God That Crawls and the only prep I've done so far is googling what Dover was like at the time it's set and making a handful of spare character pages in the roll20, with names attached but nothing else, just in case I need them.

Surely one single tweak to a class is the simpler solution then writing 8 new classes

You don't need 8 new classes.

Illusion is flavorful.
Necromancy is flavorful.
Transmutation is flavorful.

Abjuration is flavorful but feels like something you do on the side.
Conjuration feels like something you do on the side.
Enchantment feels like something you do on the side.

Divination is boring and belongs to NPCs.
Evocation isn't quite boring, but it's definitely not interesting.

That's maybe 3 new classes, 2 if you recycle the existing illusionist.
Necromancer and Transmuter probably deserve to be farther removed from Magic-User than Illusionist is.

Thank you user!

This. Just adding in the ability to specalize allows players to create their own interesting combinations.

Abjuration and Evocation? Offense and defense caster.

Abjuration and Conjuration? The caster summons minions and shields himself.

Abjuration bad Transmutation? Arcane scientist, shielding himself from nasty accidents.

No need to write a bunch classes, just pick and match them up.

What are some novel combat systems that use something other than d20 and AC?

I've been trying to do a d12 system for more simplistic combat, where you roll higher than 6 to hit, but have increasing penalties the roller your roll (Crit Fails are resolved as dropping you weapon, magic failing to go off yet still expending the spell slot, halving your initiative, etc; near crits are things like spells backfiring, hitting anything in the immediate range of the target, etc.)

Has this sliding scale combat been done before, because I'd love to see a more experienced/professional variation of this to adapt.

Yes, almost done. But depression and total poverty aren't helping.

I still need to fix tons of tables and proofread everything (currently ~120 pages). And that shit. Is. Really. Taxing.

In my search for the perfect OD&D clone I stumbled across this little gem: lulu.com/shop/leonaru/full-metal-plate-mail-pdf/ebook/product-22104623.html

It must be one of the tightest clones I've seen so far, what does Veeky Forums think of it?

You need any help on proof reading?

>8 new classes
You mean 12.

In B/X, can clerics try turning again and again?

Everything else in the game is roll-only-once. Except in combat, where you roll a lot. Turning thends to happen in combat.
Confused.

It's not explicitly mentioned in the rules, I think. I tend to rule that you get one chance at turning the undead. When the cleric has held aloft his holy symbol and with a booming voice ordered the undead to return from whence they came and it turns out to be ineffective, then that's that.

B/X doesn't seem to say, so you'd probably have to jack the rules from another edition.

Holmes Basic seems to say that turning is automatically checked for when the cleric confronts the undead, BECMI lets you keep going as long as you still have undead to turn, AD&D 2e lets you try once per encounter, 1e lets you keep going on mixed groups as long as you keep succeeding and you're capable of turning their leader, but only once on any particular undead (which is a real problem if it's something like a vampire or lich and it gets away from you).

> So what's the role of Wizards in OSR?
> How would you describe their role?
From the in-game reality's point of view? Jerk. Asshole. That Guy.

It's in the name. "Wizard" is a derogative. Compare: bastard, braggard, coward, drunkard, dullard, ...

Wizard abuses Wisdom (in non-DnD sense).

Thanks, I think I'll go with BECMI since it's the closer, and how I have played so far. A round holding the holy symbol is a round not holding the mace, anyway.

>Wizard abuses Wisdom
So a coward abuses cows?

"Cow" is also a verb.

Working on my shitting homebrew.

Magicians (MUs) get a spell slot every odd level, including first level. All spells are considered 'first level' and fit into this slot, and all spells take 1 turn to prepare. Once cast, you can refill another slot with a spell but it takes a turn still.

Every EVEN level the Magician instead gains a single step in the magic circle of their choice. Each magic circle covers a wide range of spells, and each 'step' in that circle aids them in both researching spells of that type and increasing the power of spells cast of that type.

The Circles of Magic are;
>Abjuration
>Conjuration
>Divination
>Evocation
>Obfuscation
>Restoration
>Transmutation

r8

Like this guy said You dont need 8 classes I would do this

>illusion + enchantment (beguiler)
>Necromancer
>transmutater
>evocation + abjuration (battle mage)
>Divination is dropped, npc thing
>some conjuration spells go to necromancer, I dunno about the rest

Depends on how big the town is. I usually look at Yoon-Suin or Corpathium for ideas to tack onto each town on the map, a complicated npc or two and what the town's main deal is. Gives me something to describe that makes it different than the last place and a hook to throw at players.

Usually ends up being 3-4 lines on an index card. As they do things in the town I fill in notes and either something interesting clicks or not.

But yeah, Corpathium is the city from a blog lastgaspgrimoire that does weird europe. Yoon-Suin is more orientalist, but both have a lot of random tables and ideas to loot.

The only interesting thing that could come of making magic users a bunch of different classes like this is if you make all their magic abilites into new formats or non-spell slot based magical powers.

Otherwise even two classes sharing the same mechanics but different spell lists are boring as fuck. Many people already find the Wizard / Cleric split lame, much less if you went with a conjurer, illusionist, and transmuter.