I am sorry, but where in the Codex Astartes is stated that a Primarch is allowed to lead a Chapter...

Wasn't Rowboats fist described as something that could make a titan shake?

It is, he's got S10 with potential D if he rolls 6's.

But theoretically speaking rob G could roll no D, and marneus calgar could pass all of his (invulnerable) saves. It's not likely, but it is possible.

Despite being called Imperial Fists they actually enjoy settling their differences with sword fights

Civil war when?

He is not going to lead the chapter
He is going to lead the imperium

I remember reading how Pimarchs could destroy titans single handidly.

The reason they are called Imperial Fists is because they love fisting each other, and farting in each others faces

Now I don't know if I wanna ask what kind of swords are you talking about.

Think of it as a admiral in the navy. They arnt in charge of any ship, but God damn it as soon as they step onto one it's their roof, their rules.

>Can Marneus outpunch Rowboat?
Sure he can, Calgar killed Avatar of Khaine with ease, destroyed Swarmlord on Ichar IV, hold the gate against ork waaagh. While Guilliman was almost killed by half astartes with a knife.

Quite indeed, but a Primarch lead a legion. A legion in turn consisted of chapters. Thus your Primarch can assume command as he outranks any chapter master.

But Rawbutt is the guy who wrote the Codex,and damn it if he hasn't the right to edit it whenever he wants.

Serious question here, has the Codex Astartes ever been updated?

I want to say "never, not even any spelling or grammatical errors".

>and oh look, down here it reads "Leandros is a dick".
"If that is what is written in the Codex, then that is what I must be."

>Serious question here, has the Codex Astartes ever been updated?

No.

Even the ultramarines (who technically had authors rights to it in the absence of Rowbert) wouldn't add a footnote that read: "In extreme cases it's legit to make an additional company to deal with a specific threat"

>I want to say "never, not even any spelling or grammatical errors".
For meme reasons I suppose. Which is exactly why I precised "seriously", but it wasn't enough apparently. Oh well
I meant to say that the Imperium rediscovered a few weapons during these millenias, if I'm not mistaken. So are their use forbidden by the Codex for example?

No,but some chapters have their own approach to some of its passages,when they just plainly swipe their asses with them (the case of the Space Yiffs,for instance). Only the Ultramarines and their succesor chapters follow the Codex by the letter,and just because they feel it's their duty to do so,since their spiritual forefather was (is) the author.

I don't think Roboute was so autistic he wrote the book with a precise set of authorized weapons. If anything, it is a set of strong guidelines, strategies and tactics to deal with specific circumstances according to what is on hand.

If a new weapon can fit in one of those, no reason to edit the text, it's just using the Codex as intended.

So the Imperium never discovered anything that could be used by the Marines, but didn't fit in any of the cases then? Or did they just go "well, since Marines are too autistic to use that we'll give it to the Guard/the Sisters/our own Skitarii guards"?

Allegedly, the Codex covers most situations well enough. More to the point, if the Codex calls for the use of heavy weapons to destroy a vehicle, it covers most things from lascannons to vehicle mounterd grav weapons.

Depending of the wording, no reasons to go into an autistic fit over it.

On the other hand, we dont know what the Codex is made out of.

Bottom line, Ultramar has held very well for 10000 years on the strength of it. It must mean they can deal with whatever comes their way.

I don't know about it being edited, but there's nothing about Vanguard and Sternguard veterans in the codex

For me that's whats retarded about explicit compliance to the Codex.

It be like using the order of battle from Gettysburg in modern day Afghanisbad.

Those are later additions to the Chapter system*
somehow that got removed

I think I remember reading in a Graham McNeill book, one of the latter trilogy of Ultramarines novels, that there have been amendments. Might have been something tyranid related? It's just not a common thing at all.

Yeah those were , but like I said I don't know if the actual codex was edited.

>no new editions to the Codex
Didn't Rowboat make the Codex with the intention of having it edited and updated as the ever changing needs of warfare saw fit?

What was that, Minotraitors?

Yeah, but much of 40k is about how things that were meant to be edited and updated to deal with the complex needs of a growing civilization instead get venerated as holy writ and kept static.

You can see the same in a lot of the Emperor's words being used out of context and anything he's written being taken as holy writ, despite the hilarious irony of that, and things like Rogue Trader writs of passage being used to excuse absolutely any behavior - After all, big E himself gave this dude's ancestor a paper that says he can do anything he wants, and are you going to try and upturn His words, no matter what the intent was?

>Implying the Custodes would fight for a lowly Primarch.
>Especially one rebooted by xenos sorcery
>Who's been marinating in Chais venom for 9,000 years

Holy fuck, this faggot. Of all the shitty characters in that game, this one was the worst. Even worse than Captain Genericus. This game should have been about Space Wolves.

>Even worse than Captain Genericus. This game should have been about Space Wolves.

I'm sorry, but where in the Codex Astartes is it stated that an Ultramarine Captain who is suspected of Warp corruption should be reported to the Imperial Inquisition rather than to a Chapter Librarian?

I don't see where in the Codex Astartes it gives even it's author the authority to rewrite it. We Marines of the Genesis Chapter object to this defacement of the Codex's sacred pages.

>Who is also confirmed for purity by Grey Knights
>Who has Emperor's sword burning that prows his worthiness

You know he's right.

Ultramarine civil war here we come.

>Implying anything could be more important than guarding the Emperor
>Implying they aren't on the High Lords
>Implying the Grey "carry daemon swords around" Knights can be trusted

Roboute IS the High Lord of Terra and practically Warmaster of Imperium, he has power and authority only seconded to father.

9000 years ago he was. And even then he didn't command the Custodes.

>Roboute IS the High Lord of Terra
And he is still guilty in Legion building and rebel against Imperium in HH
>and practically Warmaster of Imperium
Nope, he is Lord Commander, not Warmaster

So many neckbeards in denial because their undeserved hatred of Ward and the Ultramarines blinds them to reality.

Am I the only one who thinks Leandros was actually right about some things? If my commander ignored 97% of the warriors under his command so he could jump out of a thunderhawk with nothing but a bolt pistol and a combat knife, I'd be worried too. Titus may be a badass, but he's also a Khorne Berzerker who's just pretending to be loyal because he wants to fight a real uphill battle.

Hopefully soon, because you know if that shit happen big Bobby G is declaring marshal law and taking over the imperium.

>Serious question here, has the Codex Astartes ever been updated?
It depends entirely on which author is writing about it. My favorite depiction of it from Black Library is that it's comparable to the tactica imperialis in that it's constantly being updated (or at least it was, but come the End Times people are starting to stupid a bit harder).

Considering that the space marines have picked up a whole bunch of new weapons and vehicles since G's death, it's almost certain that the codex gets edited.

>in denial
You mean what? Lord Commander his official title from the book.
>because their undeserved hatred of Ward and the Ultramarines blinds them to reality.
Yeah how people dare to not like lawful good Marry sues.

Ultimately it would be for the Lord Commander of the Custodes to decide, as he is both a highlord and responsible for assigning missions to the custodes.

>'lawful good'
>can't spell

Denial AND retardation. Must be a hard knock life for you, user.

>Marry sues
God I wish people would learn what that even means. Can you think of any flaws with the ultramarines? If yes, THEY AREN'T FUCKING SUES.

Unless you think getting their asses kicked by the necrons and tyranids is a positive trait for a marine chapter to have.

>Denial
Where is denial in my posts?
>AND retardation
Irony to hear it from Ultramarines fanboy
>ultramarines
>flaws
Pick one

See, you saying that the Ultramarines don't have any flaws makes me think you're either memeing, or you just haven't read any fluff since Ward's codex. Hell, even in Ward's codex they had flaws, because they god their asses handed to them on a chitin platter by the tyranids.

Straight from core rulebook
>The number of this ruling council was set at 12, with Roboute Guilliman himself taking a seat under the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium, the old term Warmaster having fallen out of favour for obvious reasons.
Lord Commander = Warmaster

>Pick one
They religiously follow old book and get their asses kicked because of it.

They got their homeworld wrecked and entire First Company lost to the baby bitch first Hive Fleet ever and it wasn't even the entirety of Hive Fleet Behemoth, either. The tide turning belongs squarely to the Imperial Navy.

They also would have lost against Kraken if it wasn't for Iyanden tanking half of it.

Guilliman himself got his shit wrecked by Fulgrim in close quarters combat where he had no place belonging given the precarious state of the Imperium at the time. That was clearly a massive fuck up by the head of all Ultramarines; its one thing for Vulkan to go retarded and nobly sacrifice himself to stop The Beast, its another when its Lord Autism. He could have prevented a lot of the Imperium's current decay if he played it smart.

>Hell, even in Ward's codex they had flaws
Such as..? Defeating all factions on easy-mode?
>>The number of this ruling council was set at 12, with Roboute Guilliman himself taking a seat under the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium, the old term Warmaster having fallen out of favour for obvious reasons.
Oh sorry my bad, thought that after HH he was Lord Guilliman.

>because they got their asses handed to them on a chitin platter by the tyranids

>They got their homeworld wrecked and entire First Company lost to the baby bitch first Hive Fleet ever and it wasn't even the entirety of Hive Fleet Behemoth, either. The tide turning belongs squarely to the Imperial Navy.
And they still won, by following
>old book
while other chapters were eaten by these nids.
>Guilliman himself got his shit wrecked by Fulgrim in close quarters combat
And he was totally cured.

They didn't lost anything important against Tyranids

Lamenters and Scythes of the Emperor being sacrificial lambs to satisfy their martyr complexes doesn't count as 'Tyranids eating chapters', because they were clearly playing retarded ON PURPOSE NO LESS!

>totally cured
>needed xenos sorcery and heretek shit to even function
>can't leave his armor or he'll die

This isn't going to end well for Bobby G. Count down to Abaddon slicing him open like a sardine can while GW furiously masturbates in the corner.

>They didn't lost anything important against Tyranids
They lost half their chapter, one of the only remaining Emperor class Battleships in the imperium, their entire first company, and they had to suffer the shame of letting filthy xenos onto their home world.

If you're going to follow the "UlTARDmarines are stoopid!" meme, at least read your lore so you can complain in ways that make sense.

>Can you think of any flaws with the ultramarines? If yes, THEY AREN'T FUCKING SUES.
Then name at least 2-3 times when Ultrasmurfs were wrong.

Prandium, Calth, Iron Cage.

>>can't leave his armor or he'll die
Proofs? ALl what I saw that his armor have standart life-support system.
>This isn't going to end well for Bobby G.
Because he defeated Magnus and Huron oneasy mode and now have safe way to Terra?
>They lost half their chapter,
>their entire first company
So nameless space marines, such a great loss

>Then name at least 2-3 times when Ultrasmurfs were wrong.
Following the codex too religiously.
Praying to their dead dad and grandpa.
Pretty much everything about the second tyrannic war.
First time they fought at Damnos.
Second time they fought at Damnos.
Uriel Ventris waking up the Nightbringer (partially retconned).
Blowing up one of the most valuable pieces of technology in the Imperium to kill a single hive fleet.
Letting a raging egotist like Cato Sicarius captain a company.
Letting a filthy xenos witch cast foul sorcery on their primarch.

Do you want me to go on?

>Prandium, Calth, Iron Cage.
Adn they always were a winners on the right side.

>losing half your chapter doesn't matter
Aaaand you became too obvious, so we know you're just blatantly trolling. Well, it's been fun, but I'm out.

>Following the codex too religiously.
Not a flaw since they are always winning.
>Praying to their dead dad and grandpa.
How it's a flaw?
>Pretty much everything about the second tyrannic war.
They won.
>Blowing up one of the most valuable pieces of technology in the Imperium to kill a single hive fleet.
Not a flaw
>Letting a raging egotist like Cato Sicarius captain a company.
So what he is still better than any other Space Marines except Calgar.
>Letting a filthy xenos witch cast foul sorcery on their primarch.
Not a flaw in new Imperium, since Guilliman hates current one and says they should be more progressive.

>Adn they always were a winners on the right side.
At Calth the Word Bearers inflicted a 3 to 1 casualty ratio against the Ultramarines. They did NOT win that campaign.

It also makes me chuckle, he is basically Phoenix Lord now, he also uses Webway.

Destruction of Monarchia, roasting on Alpharius, sitting at home until siege of Terra during heresy.

>At Calth the Word Bearers inflicted a 3 to 1 casualty ratio against the Ultramarines.
And Word Bears were forced to retreat.
>Destruction of Monarchia, roasting on Alpharius, sitting at home until siege of Terra during heresy.
And now fluff says it's okay.

well, first, I guess it isn't written in the codex, that a Primarch can't lead a chapter
second, when the Emperor started his crusade, and was able to get the Primarchs back, they became Chapter Master of their respective Legion instant

>Not a flaw since they are always winning.
Except for when they lose, which they do.

>How it's a flaw?
It's weird and makes no sense.

>They won.
They had the most pyyric victory they could have possibly come up with, short of blowing up their planet. Behemoth still has plenty of splinters and tendrils running around, and the ultramarines suffered massive casualties and huge losses of materiel to stop the nids.

>Not a flaw
Stupid is a flaw.

>So what he is still better than any other Space Marines except Calgar.
Except he's really, really bad at his job, see Damnos incident.

>Not a flaw in new Imperium, since Guilliman hates current one and says they should be more progressive.
Guilliman can be wrong sometimes. I guarentee you there's going to be some kind of repercussion for using sorcery to resurrect a primarch. Remember when they did that with Horus? Remember how Horus was so disillusioned with the imperium, how it wasn't worthy of the blood of the men who had fought for it, how the changes that had happened beyond his reach had spoiled the imperium to it's core? Guilliman is sounding a lot like post-resurrection Horus, and IT DIDN'T FUCKING END WELL.

Prandium was a paradise world so beautiful it was described as 'The Jewel of Ultramar'. It was annihilated by the Tyranids because of Calgar's arrogance. It is described as a permanent stain on their record, an eternal shame to be endured. You know Calgar had warnings directly from survivors about the on-coming Hive Fleet and dismissed them as insane fools, right? There is even a comic short about this.

Calth was a bloodbath with the Word Bearers claiming victory as pointed out

The Iron Cage incident was as much, if not more, provoked by Roboute and his Codex Astartes as it was for Imperial Fist dissidents. That Roboute then allowed his brother Dorn to sacrifice his own legion for the sake of pride and didn't step in to end the massacre and drive off the Iron Warriors, not even soon enough to stop them harvesting all that Imperial Fist gene seed, was a huge mistake. He basically handed over a huge part of a legion to the traitors, their mortal enemies, because he was just as, if not more, conceited and stubborn as Dorn.

>implying all of those weren't terrible mistakes as well

>And Word Bears were forced to retreat.
>forced
Not really, they just left to go fight in the siege of terra.

>I guarentee you there's going to be some kind of repercussion for using sorcery to resurrect a primarch. Remember when they did that with Horus? Remember how Horus was so disillusioned with the imperium, how it wasn't worthy of the blood of the men who had fought for it, how the changes that had happened beyond his reach had spoiled the imperium to it's core? Guilliman is sounding a lot like post-resurrection Horus, and IT DIDN'T FUCKING END WELL.

How the fuck did I not see these parallels yet? Jesus christ, I really hope GW aren't going to do chaos guilliman.

Taking one out of my play book, eh, old chaps?

>I really hope GW aren't going to do chaos guilliman.

>gets resurrected by sorcery and heretek
>immediately starts talking like post davin Horus
>works alongside actual fucking traitors and dudes who use daemonblades and daemonhosts in battle.
>Is literally the warmaster by another name

Yeah, no. No way GW is taking this anywhere heretical.

I can only imagine him being possessed by Ynnead, not chaos, Tyrion style.

Isn't Ynnead already possessing an Eldar? Or Aeldari, what whatever the fuck they're called now?

>Except for when they lose,
and thye never losing.
>It's weird and makes no sense.
But not a flaw.
>They had the most pyyric victory they could have possibly come up with
How exactly? They lost few companies, nothing more, not gene-seed, not Mccrage.
>Guilliman can be wrong sometimes.
In speculations, not in fluff.
>You know Calgar had warnings directly from survivors about the on-coming Hive Fleet and dismissed them as insane fools, right?
So what, they still won, and Prandium was just a nice planet.
At least you Chris knew how to make character looks interesting (Hellscreams, pre-Cata Thrall, most badass elves in fantasy genre).

>Guilliman is sounding a lot like post-resurrection Horus
But Horuse was tricked by Chaos Gods (aka BBEGs), while Guilliman was cured by eldars to fight against Chaos.

Yncarne is avatar that burst from Biel-Tan infinity circuit.

>new models released
>idiot still thinks that Guilliman will turn to Chaos

The Lord Commander of the Custodes isn't always a High Lord like the Mechanicum have. Although I have no doubt that if they really felt it necessary, they'd just walk into the room and behead whoever they felt needed beheading to take up a spot for themselves.

>and thye never losing.
Except they literally, objectively are. Even if you want to argue with me about the second tyrannic war, they objectively lost at Calth and at Damnos.

>But not a flaw.
Doing irrational nonsensical things that the Emperor says not to do is a flaw.

>How exactly?
They lost half their chapter and the second most valuable piece of military materiel that they have, and yes, they did lose a fuckton of geneseed, that's why they were "borrowing" so much geneseed from successor chapters after the war. Do you seriously think taking more than 50% casualties in a battle where you didn't even defeat your enemy is a victory?

>In speculations, not in fluff.
There are multiple times in the Horus Heresy books where guilliman is wrong, and a few times where he even admits he's wrong. This is objectively false.

Yes, because the Eldar are so trustworthy and pure! They never hold ANY ill will for the mon-keigh. Also just so you're aware, Eldar is both singular and plural. Eldars isn't a word.

The Lord Commander of the Custodes is a high lord. Not *always* a high lord, as offices shift throughout the years, but as of m41.999 the LC of the Custodes is one of the acting highlords, unless GW retconned that in their recent lore shitfest.

>Except they literally, objectively are.
When? Damnos was totally irrelevant for the setting, and Clath doesn't count since they fought against 2 legions and forced them to retreat.
>Doing irrational nonsensical things that the Emperor says not to do is a flaw.
How it's a flaw?
>They lost half their chapter and the second most valuable piece of military materiel that they have, and yes, they did lose a fuckton of geneseed
And they easily recovered, unlike Blood Angels for example who was almost replaced by Flesh Tearers, or Imperial Fists.
>Horus Heresy books
In BL books, it's nothing but a filler.