The entire Izzet guild relocates (or is forcibly relocated?) to Kaladesh...

The Legion is not strong enough, they can't handle their potions.

I thought the Ravnica guilds were the only way two-color combinations could manifest, flavor wise, as organizations? I remember putting forth some ideas for alternates once in a thread--custom card general maybe?--and being told that wasn't how it worked while I was working on a custom set.

Any tips/noteworthy cards for building an Izzet commander deck?

Get ye gone to the EDH thread

You were talking to a troll or retard. The thread's got some fine designers, sometimes (or did, I haven't been there recently) but is also full of people pushing their shitty color pie headcanons or who are just wrong about everything multicolor.
Like once a friend of mine made a GW card with flying and got called out because GW can't have flying creatures because "green is anti-flying" by some retard.

The guilds are VERY SPECIFICALLY just one of many ways one could interpret the two color combinations.

Look at Innistrad. You have all the ally pairs representing a theme.

R/G Werewolves. R/B Vampires. U/B Zombies. U/W Spirits. W/G Humans.

I like thos

Yeah, but those are themes, not organizations; the idea being that if a group of people of two specific color alignments organized up as a large group, it would have to be as the Ravnican guilds did it.

Somehow that wouldn't surprise me, I suppose. It did discourage me at the time, though.

You could end up with a kind of guild of the guildless.

Focus on Red's goal of liberation, and Blue's desire for free will.

The guild frees slaves, convinces others to join them through propaganda and literature.

Their creatures will often be unskilled compared to those of other guilds, but they'll be fanatics, driven by the ideas of their new guild, performing acts of terroris- er, liberation on the other guilds.

And they could bring back the Prodigal Sorcerer to join the Prodigal Pyromancer as their mages.

I've always though blue-red as a good color combination for artists. Combining the passion of red with the knowledge and method of blue.

Organized crime is Orzhov.

>They're happier there
Yeah I bet, seeing as the Kaladeshians think magic is a myth and the Izzets are one of the Multiverses top 10 experts on Magical manipulation.

You just created the next overlord of Kaladesh, Niv mizzet, and he is certainly smarter than the consulate- so no worries about a revolt. Ofcourse most civilians would probably be to diluted to realize Niv's control.

Welcome to New Niv-rexia

>Everyone in this thread talking about colours thus far.
Jezuz... Putting favoritism aside The Izzet are probably one of the most important guilds to exist in the city, as they run MOST of the city planet spanning facilities.
>attending to Ravnican civic works, [4] including water supply systems, sewers, heating systems, boilers, and roadways.
Also rampant leylines, a fuck ton of civil maintenance, and Ravnica's main power source!
Yes the Gruul, and Golgari would not care. But the rest do! Whisking them away to Kaladesh is a great way to start some ... sorta... REVOLT! in Ravinca. Likely started by your friendly Cult of Thrill-Killers.

At the risk of going off-topic, how would Ravnica handle being polluted with Glistening Oil?

I'd imagine the Pro-Ravnican side would be:
>Orzhov
Ghosts can't get infected. They see Phyrexia as problematic competition that takes away their source of income and servants.
>Boros
It's their job to protect Ravnica.
>Azorious
It's their job to cockblock everything, including a world-corrupting plague.
>Selesnya
Problematic for them on a social control level and an environmental level.

Neutral:
>Izzet
Will be the first to discover it, but will do science on it before actually warning anyone. If not compromised when things get serious, they'll become Pro-Ravnica.
>Simic:
Will try to find a cure, but also will try to experiment it because science. Vulnerable to corruption.

Pro-Phyrexia:
>Gruul
Poor sanitation makes them vulnerable, but they live away from concentration, so those who notice will probably start screaming about it.
>Dimir
Will likely try to either exploit the oil or will become compromised.
>Golgari
Will likely become compromised due to poor sanitation.
>Rakdos
Will likely compromise themselves and others.

Which guild is the least important?

Why would you replace one of the best guilds?
We should work on replacing either the Dimir or Gruul.
They offer NOTHING.

It's here.

This is an opportunity for ordinary Ravnicans! For too long the Izzet had maintained a monopoly over these essential public services. But now that the Guild of the Guildless has seized their abandoned factories, laboratories, sewers and such, we will provide the fruits of industry to the people!

Just ignore the occasional explosion while we undergo a period of readjustment. The GoG's Liberation committee is still trying to work out what half this shit does.

The Gruul are.
Unlike the other guilds they have no point in existing because they don't offer the people of Ravnica anything worthwhile.

They're relics of a bygone era, dreaming of a time before the City and unwilling to improve their station. So they riot, scream and accomplish nothing in their short lives.

What if you combined the Gruul with the Cult of Yore? Have them start to work on bringing back the Nephilim.

And flamboyant pirates?

Ravnica doesn't have surface oceans though, right? It seems like piracy would be kinda limited when you only have canals and sewers to work with.

The Simic are working on bringing them back though.

Yeah, but that's what would make them terrifying.

You head to take a shit, but there's a bunch of goblins crawling up from the bog, claiming to have boarded your house, and trying to loot and pillage everything.

Which is why they'd take to the sky.

I'm not confident Ravnica has air-based shipping to loot, but I guess I'll believe it.

>gambling has to be criminal
El oh fucking el

>Sewer Goblin Pirates
Gunna have to steal this for my next D&D game.

I think the word you are looking for here is Rakdos.

Consider the differences between the Azorius and the Ojutai, the Dimir and the Silumgar, the Rakdos and the Kolaghan, the Gruul and the Atarka, and the Selesnya and the Dromoka.

That's putting them right in the patrol lanes of the greatest police force on Ravnica.
You know, the guild with the flying knights and all the angels. I'm just saying that might not be the brightest idea.

>azorious
>their lawmages design a perfect spell to shut down phyrexian creatures, so vulnerable in their rigid adherence to order
>it is called "blue screen of death"

This is an interesting question and I Feel bad, but this is the closest chance I've had to an idea I've had noodling up in my head about a faction of Izzet becoming artifice-related with a charismatic, hot-shot head-strong artificer championing this subsect of the Izzet League trying to dethrone Niv-Mizzet, with a mechanic that made artifact tokens that powered spells somehow and using the artifact token making technology Origins and Kaladesh used to keep color relevant while still making artifacts matterr.

Just means they get to have swashbuckling sword fights soaring through the air and on rooftops.

That's the dream yes, and you have that their leader is an overly scheming Dragon, but around 98% of the rest of the Izzet are people that show up, do their job, go home.
And unlike they other nine guilds they aren't scheming for power or how to overthrow something. No these scientists go to their lab and work on personal experiments. Sure yes... Some explode, but they aren't say the Rakdos or Orzhov trying to pry your souls out for something. Or the Azorious or Boros imposing their laws on you.

No sir, the Izzet are the Least of enemies to the guildless. If you could do away with their scheming leader they'd happily maintain the city for you, with or without a guild pact.

>Which guild is the least important?
Gruul then Rakdos/Dimir

>Rakdos
Rakdos does sever a propose in the form of entertainment because your average job doesn't know Rakdos is a death cult. To most citizen their are performers and entertainers. But under the surface in the darker allies the true face of the Thriller-seekers can be found, and it only costs your mind, soul, and sometimes lots of blood.
So aside from entertainment- which granted is an important business. Not much. And other people can provide entertain without costing your life. Some guildless have wonderful theaters.

>Dimir
They are a house of assassins and spies. Their main propose does not really benefit a city or it's people. Yes yes, spies and assassins are useful and interesting in a setting about guilds war against each other, but in practicality these guys are a poison to their own city.
That said they do have their finger in several business ventures and civic area, simply removing they over night would cause large financial sectors to just collapse. But if the legitimate side of the Dimir could be handed over to ANY one else. Ravinca's civilian would live better lives.
... Not that your average citizen even knows about the house.

>Gruul
The worst. Cont...

I recall being told the dimir had a greater purpose elaborated on in the novels but I forget exactly what. Like something to do with being a check and balance for the guilds.

>Gruul
What said. Their casts offs from an age gone by.
They aren't even a guild proper as they are several different clans that DON'T work together and tend to kill each other just as often as Guidless or Guildsmen.

The Other Guilds have found a way to put them to use, by letting them demolish structures and areas no longer need. But they aren't intentionally helping the city and the Other guilds and guildess would prefer them gone.

Hmn.... one more...

>Simic
Bump Rakdos up one rank, as they at least serve the entertainment industry. The Simic toil in their labs and do NOTHING for the city except occasionally accidentally release mutant monsters on the city.
Yes they are not intentionally evil, and most of them are upstanding Citizen Fish-frog-men and women. But they don't actually have a propose.
In fact their existence is kinda a hindrance because The Simic and the Selesnya Conclave were the ones that stole Gruul's original propose away from them. If we ditched the Simic we could actually give the Gruul back part of their old job, while at the same time lessening the Mutant monster problem.
>Ugh that was hard to time, Simic is one of my Favorite!

>I recall being told the dimir had a greater purpose elaborated on in the novels but I forget exactly what.
Well you are right, they did mention they have a greater purpose, but we were never told what exactly.
So us as the readers only have speculation right now. And wibbly-wobbly "We-are-needed- OoooooOOoooh" is not a great defense.

But like I said simply ripping the Dimir out of the power structure is not a great idea. Since they have their fingers in many of Rav's Governing bodies and Financial areas. Which would just collapse if House Dimir suddenly disappeared.

I like it. Maybe give them jet packs.
Because fuck guild gates.

Simic are one of the guilds that have an explicitly designated civic purpose. In the original ravnica , they were the medical reseatchers who designed and developed medicines and other things. Momir Vig used the guild's affinity for the biological to steer them towards creating mutants but they still had a purpose. The new Simic headed by Zegana are environmentally inclined, with their express goal being reintroducing and preserving Ravnica's nature and wildlife. To this end they come up with mutants better adapted to the environment because they recognize Ravnicas constantly developing city is crushing out natural creatures. I guess they also still do the medical stuff too (seems like a weird thing to have and then just not have anymore) but I dont remember.

Was it really not explained? I could have sworn it had something to do with if like the Guildpact was ever taken advantage of or otherwise became too powerful, they could subvert and remove it or something like that

>The new Simic headed by Zegana are environmentally inclined, with their express goal being reintroducing and preserving Ravnica's nature and wildlife.
Yeah not so up on the lore of new Simic. Yes this does sound like a step in the right direction, and yes also lets assume they still look after the medical practices. A simic style hospital would actually be a really cool thing to see.

I'd say that you are wrong about the Simic.
I can't recall where but I read that they've got their grubby little tentacles in a lot of the science-y aspects of Ravnica and are behind a lot of the advancements for a lot of normal people.

I imagine lesser cytoplasts are quite common in Ravnica, used to heal missing limbs and such.

What about the Conclave?
I understand they've taken up a lot of Ravnica's forests and 'wild' places but do they open these up to the public or are they for Cult members only?

Obviously not, their Potions can kill Niv-Mizzet, let alone a man.

Obviously some unseen university level traditionalist wizards. Literally ivory towers, twice as large as any of the other buildings. No magitek, but big on rituals and fireballs. Pic related.

Simic would hop on board the Oil. This is true of both old Simic (Vig) and new (Zeganna) but moreso of old. Traitors for sure.

Izzet would initially try to use it as a power source or something, but Niv would see it as a threat and since he's an egotistical fuck he wouldn't allow Phyrexia to do anything that might harm his tyranny. Izzet would rally against it.

Dimir is tricky but I'm going to guess that they'd mostly observe until they thought they could figure out which side was winning then try to sell out the losing side.

Orzhov would be pretty anti-Phyrexia. They can't profit off of it since the idea of an economy or favours/debts is foreign to the more-or-less dictatorship of the praetors.

Rakdos would likely undergo a schism. Rakdos himself would resist the Phyrexians but the rest of the guild would just enjoy the fighting and do whatever they individually found the most fun.

Selesnya is most similar to the Phyrexians in terms of ideals, I think that it would not be difficult for the infection to hit one or two footsoldiers and then it would spread through an empathic link or whatever. As soon as it hit the guild leaders the rest of the guild would instantly fall.

Boros and Azorius would be openly against it and act as the soldiers of the war.

Gruul would side with Ravnica mainly because they would be allowed to be as violent and unruly as possibly toward the enemy without the boros/azorius trying to hold them back or stop them. I don't think Elementals can be corrupted either so that's another plus.

Golgari is all about life and nature, while Phyrexia actively abhors flesh in favor of metal; the Golgari would be quite strongly against Phyrexia. Zombies and the undead also can't be corrupted.

Pic also related

Rakdos (the guild) is actively trying to keep Rakdos (the demon) entertained, asleep, or distracted, so he doesn't entirely obliterate Ravnica. They act like dumb fucks and the entry level ones probably don't know what they're actually doing; but they serve a very important purpose.

Notably, Simic Signet is still printed with flavor text alluding to their monopoly on Ravnica's medical supplies.

I think that the cards don't do a good job depicting the Rakdos as a guild.
They're not all demonically empowered clowns. There are levels to their depravity that I feel don't get enough attention.

>They're not all demonically empowered clowns. There are levels to their depravity that I feel don't get enough attention.
And on the flip side not every one of them are psychopathic face eaters. A vast majority of blue collar workers are Rakdos members, who head down to the Bar after work and party and drink the night away, but not much more.

But yes agreed, one extreme or the other Rakdos gets glossed over card wise.

Are the Orzhov the best necromancers in the multiverse?

Best? That's probably Innistrad, but they're certainly the most practical.

See I thought so at first but then I compared the two.
Innistrad really only has the Ghoul-Callers as zombie summoners and a shit ton of vampires.
The Orzhov can make zombies, conjure ghosts and have weird angels as well. AND they have vampires.

>Innistrad really only has the Ghoul-Callers as zombie summoners
But user, you forgot about the stitchers!

Still really the same thing, just go by a different name + color.

Disregarding how common casinos used to be as mafia fronts (and how many groups "went clean" when they released their fronts brought in more money then their actual businesses) parting willing fools front their money is thematically Orzhov.

They aren't even the best necromancers on Ravinica.

Whose better at necromancy?

The Golgari, probably.

Bingo, also they are pretty fungis

Part of the Simic would try to find a cure, but even then there may be some that will try to harness the oil and attempt to synthesize an oil that doesn't kill the ego.

Selesnya and Orzhov view the Phyrexians as stealing all of their "sheep". How can the Orzhov enslave everyone if they are all mindless murder-machines that won't even listen to them?
Do the Azorius have ways to stop the oil besides quarantine magic? I am not familiar with the Azorious's powers.

If angels can be corrupted, I don't see why elementals can't.

I'm not sure if zombies are immune to the oil. I know machines aren't, though that's probably due to the Mycosynth that blurs those lines.

Ravnican Phyrexia would probably develop differently from Mirrian Phyrexia, since Mirrodin was designed form the start to be that way, unwittingly thanks to Karn not washing his hands before planeswalking. Ravnica would also have a better chance because of how organized they are and the fact that they have the Ghost Council's assets and Niv Mizzet's brilliance.

Anything boros could do the potions do better

...

Not really the same thing, no.

ravnican elementals don't have flesh, nor are they made of metal