That guy who doesn't want to roll stats because "it isn't fair"

>That guy who doesn't want to roll stats because "it isn't fair"

Some people just don't trust the dice.
Those people are bitches and cowards, granted.
>MFW stuck in point-buy med-fantasy pathfinder game

Yeah, sure
>Rolls all 14s or lower
Might just stop applying since there's no decent build with that
>Rolls two solid stats, shit at the rest
Oh, here we go, have to play a fucking wizard or a rogue with almost no variation in choice
>Rolls all high, 14+ with at least a 17
Sure, no inherent problem with the rolls in themselves, but still annoying when the guy basically has an advanced template strapped in compared to the rest of the party

It matters more in post-AD&D editions

But if you're playing AD&D or a retroclone, you can generally get away with it.

All the more reason that, if you want to play D&D, you should join the OSR master race.

It feels shitty to be at the table with a character that has 12s and 10s across the board when the player next to you has an 18 and two 17s. I always offer my players alternative methods without dice.

Given that 3.PF are a system mastery games where players immaculately plan out their characters, it's weird that such a major aspect of the character is left up to chance. You don't roll for how many skill points you get or when you get a feat. The only time I'd see star-rolling working is for one-shots or as build challenges. If I'm going to be playing this character for months though, I dang well want to build it myself.

Only if you're not a roleplayer. You do realize that by enforcing equality of outcome you are depriving your players of the real experience of playing a varied role, right?

I'm not sure anyone wants to play the varied role of "shitty"

>if my character doesn't have the highest stats possible I am going to throw a tantrum

More like
>if my character will be constantly outshined by the lucky guy, I'm gonna have a bad time.

I dont want to roll stats because I want a specific build for my character. How can I make a super beefy muscle man if I roll a 2 for STR?

If the game requires any rolls for an action, then having bad stats means you are inherently worse than the other party members. Being worse can be fun if you go in knowing your characters are expendable and most likely not going to live past two sessions, but in a longer term game where you make someone you care about, being relatively shitty wears thin rather quickly.

>my stats have to be high or I'll throw a tantrum
>even though either one of us could roll 1 and 2 all night anyway

Kek, rollplayers never change

My group does long campaigns. Rolling is fine for short campaigns and one shots, but if you're running from low level all the way to high level it can be a real mood killer.

After our last campaign (with rolled stats) we've unanimously agreed to do point buy in the future.

>deciding what type of character you are playing before you roll your stats
For your next trick you should decide what you want to eat after you've already ordered food

Its still a game at the end of the day, and the goal is to have fun. Most people don't have fun playing as a loser.

Why am I ordering food? I'd rather decide what I want to eat and then go buy the ingredients and make it myself.

>Stuck

Stuck in a game and you've the gall to call anyone else a bitch or coward.

Aren't rolled stats ON AVERAGE higher than most systems' standard point buy?

>I'll say anything to justify this tantrum I'm throwing

impeccable counter-argument there

Yea sure. Give me call when you "hard core" rollers aren't all 4d6, 7 times, drop the lowest, re-roll if still not godly...

>That guy who refuses to roll despite it being a fun one-shot/meatgrinder with throwaway characters
>That GM who imposes rolling on what is supposed to be a full length campaign with a narrative and involved characters
Both are insufferable.

>still throwing a tantrum at the mere suggestion that your character might not be perfect
Rollplayer cancer needs to be cured

What if I want to make a specific character with specific stats for a backstory and personality I've written for him? Sure it can be interesting to see where the rolls lead, but it can also get in the way of making the character that I want to play.

Not in CoC. The roll is lower on average than evenly spreading build points

If I were to leave, the group would be too small to play, and these are some friends I like so it's not terrible. It's more suffering through than being trapped, but I still wish I could leave without ruining it.

>writing a character and his entire backstory before you know what his stats are

Sure, it can be interesting to be retarded but it's better to be intelligent.

> Taking the bait this hard
Come on Veeky Forums. This is day one Internet shit. "Don't feed the trolls"

"You know, I was feeling like making a badass Paladin, maybe going for an archery build this time, since I've already done most of the standard stuff."
"Well, I got an 18 and 5 sub-12 stats. I guess I'm a primary caster."

>I lost an argument so now we need to ignore the "troll"

>Throwing a tantrum because your players want their characters to be balanced and specialized under their own control when they'll be using those mechanics and personality for a long time
But user, I do know what their stats are, because I have a number of methods to generate those stats without a variant random generation method. It's a lot more interesting when you can peruse all the options of game mechanics and how they interact with your character concepts to produce something you'll be interested in playing and roleplaying over the course of a long period.

Yes, still don't roll stats.

I don't care if a character is more powerful or not, i care if the power discrepancy is larger.

If you are so poorly stat that other people perform your role better than you by virtue of luck, you aren't feeling useful and aren't having a fun time. In fact you are holding the party back because you have to balance the party around you being worthless.

>stats are important
I once ran a character that was literally an incarnation of all the russian memes, you know, cheeki breeki, get out of here stalker, gopnik, always yells cyka blyat in moments of danger, used a broken bottle of vodka as a weapon, and drank lot's of vodka (Acording to the DM, it was technically some sort of potatoe ale, but I don't care).
His highest stat was a 15, the rest were some variation on barely above or below 10.
He was in his 80s, and was a human bard.
By the end of the campaign, he was the only original member of the party left, and ruled a communist "utopia".
According to my DM, he left behind an entire gopnik culture after his death, which honestly was my ulterior motive all along.
Anyway, back on topic, you can take the shittiest character imaginable, and make them good with a bit of effort.

>still throwing a tantrum at the mere suggestion that your character MAY not have perfect stats

>people bought this

That's fine Iron chef but if that's your gig don't join us for the degustation

Throwing out a rolling system doesn't mean your players are going to be sporting all 18s.

They can distribute the stats how they want and disregard extra points if they wish. If anything this way opens up more options, you can choose to be the under performing hero if you wish, but you are not shoehorned into because dice god said so.

>still throwing a tantrum at the mere suggestion that players may have a concept in mind they'd like to play instead of always building a character off of the Dice God's spunk landing on their character sheet

2d10+ 20, one star allowed to be brought too the mean

As having gmed and played a bunch both the lucky and the unlucky characters, I do prefer point buy because of the last point.

You should probably bet with your players before hand if your doing point buy or rolling. Anyone who complains post that point is free to leave

>still throwing a tantrum at the mere hint of an idea that you MIGHT not get the perfect stats for your snowflake character

Your one-time example totally overrules everything

>implying stats AREN'T important
They are if your GM is a brutal hardliner and/or you're playing in a gritty setting where the wrong statblock WILL get you killed two sessions in.

The only time you can get away with shitty stats is if you've got a good GM who focuses on story over mechanics, which is not always gonna happen.

>Games where you roll stats

>hurr stats are worthless becauze I just teleport behind my enemies
>nothing personnel... kid
Why is every argument about how unnecessary stats are say you can just role play everything out? Why even bother using dice or numbers if you're just going to make pretend for everything?

>using text in an image forum

>Gamers who refuse to roll stats

I literally never said nor implied anything of the sort. Let me try and untangle where I think you've misinterpreted me.

>The only time you can get away with shitty stats is if you've got a good GM who focuses on story over mechanics, which is not always gonna happen.

BY WHICH I MEAN: Even in such a circumstance, you're still going to be reliant on your stats to get shit done. The difference lies in whether your trash attribute scores result in:

A: Getting you killed and probably dragging the rest of the party with you; or
B: Create opportunities for the GM to exploit your flaws and create story hooks out of them WITHOUT blowing your entire asshole out.

I'm personally of the very firm opinion that mechanics must be tempered with story, and vice-versa. And in the context of this thread, I'm more inclined to say that point-buy is considerably better for ensuring that characters all have strengths AND weaknesses, and aren't pulling "nothing personnel" bullshit at my table.

tl;dr what I was trying to say is that your GM's particular genre style is the determining factor in exactly how stupid it is to have 16 STR and 8 in everything else.

Pardon me for wanting to keep encounter balancing easy. I do not let my players roll for stats.

>that guy who wants to roll 3d6 in order
>in a game that wasn't built for that whatsoever

It's okay user, not everyone is intelligent. Sorta shows how far the bar has fallen on the RPG hobby where retards and women are playing now but hey, whatever floats your bathtoys, special little guy

Wow, you are an angry unpleasant little man. Why are you so emotionally invested in the play pretend of other people having random permanent stats?

>damn you must be angry because you're laughing at me
No wonder you think your parents hate you

Did he include Hardbass?

To be fair, there's no good argument for rolling stats, unless you're playing an OSR or something like Paranoia.

Do you win lottery often? There's this discipline called statistics which you appear not to be familiar with...

You do realize that DnD does that for you right?

>no argument for rolling for stats
>provides argument for rolling for stats
>???

The CR system is kind of bad to begin with, imbalanced stats only make it worse.

>"No user, I'm being the cleric because I make the best ones. One time I rolled all 18s for my stats"

I was like 16 when he said this to me, and utterly new to TTRPG and even then I was blown away by the statement.

>pretending that he's never seen a session where a player missed all of his rolls all night
You don't have to lie to make a point young man

I haven't, because that's something that simply doesn't happen unless the said player has about 90% chance of missing any given roll.

Easy solution. Allow players to replace their rolled stat array with someone else's.
You roll three 12's and thee 10's? Use the 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 14 someone else rolled instead.

>Might just stop applying since there's no decent build with that
Most tank builds work fine. Don't need high ability scores to get a retardedly high AC, and class determines number hp more than ability score for the most part. A barbarian with a constitution of 14 is still getting 9 hp every level plus starting out with 14 hp. Throw in the tough feat and you should have 49 hp at level 4. This of course assumes you are a retard that went all in on hp and didn't choose a hill dwarf or a race that gives you +2 constitution.

Also if someone had a 14 as their highest I would let them reroll if they wanted, I imagine most DMs would.


>Oh, here we go, have to play a fucking wizard or a rogue with almost no variation in choice
All classes only need one or two ability scores (generally damage or casting and constitution). A fighter doesn't need a high intelligence, high strength or dex and con is all you need, a bard doesn't need a high intelligence. Having some low abilities can give your character some areas to roleplay and have some depth. I prefer having an 8 as my lowest ability score to having an 11, lets me roleplay a character with an actual flaw.

>Sure, no inherent problem with the rolls in themselves, but still annoying when the guy basically has an advanced template strapped in compared to the rest of the party
Who the fuck cares? A fighter with 14 charisma isn't going to overthrow the bard as the party face, a wizard with 15 constitution isn't going to be stealing the thunder from the party fighters.

user, there's this discipline called statistics which you appear not to be familiar with...

Let's be generous and say that you only roll about twenty times in a given session. The chance to roll 1 or 2 on a d20 20 times in a row is 10^-20. And you're trying to tell me that's the kind of thing that happens regularly?

So everyone just uses the best stat array out of 4-8 rolled?

Not sure what interesting builds you could actually make with 5e's point buy system.
>Highest ability score of 15
Wow, I can get a +3 starting at the cost of dropping my other ability scores to an average of 11.
Look out everyone mentally challenged wood elf ranger with 17 dexterity and 8 intelligence coming through.

Sure, if that's what they want.
Of course, what's best depends on the kind of character they want. Unless someone rolled 6 18's.

Well, that's the most even way. If you're concerned about everyone having too high stats, you should have been using a less generous rolling method anyway.

>my character is constantly outshined because this other guy has slightly higher numbers
Then the game is shit, not rolling dice

>rolling for stats
>assumes you won't be rolling for hp

I played Eon (basically a Swedish more 'realistic' D&D) and it's character creation is heavily random, including past events, injuries, a lot of stuff. I rolled a malformed little weak, dumb gimp, basically. It was not fun to play him/it.

For one-shots I think randomness in char-gen can increase the 'dumb fun', but for anything over 2 sessions, don't do that.

>half a point lower per level on average
Wow, its fucking nothing. Maybe if you are so obsessed with poor luck not fucking you over you shouldn't play a game that involves chance.

>arguing that shit rolls won't fuck you up entirely
>arguing against acknowledging that shit rolls really can fuck you up entirely

there is literally nothing wrong with women other than the kinda faggots who want to fuck them

You mean besides the fact that they're a parasite class that has evolved to be as useless and dependent as possible?

>Roll shit stats
>Hey bro you can reroll that if you want
It isn't that fucking hard. Besides DnD gives you really shit options for point buy to the point where you can't actually make a remotely useful build without minmaxing.
>At absolute best you can't get an ability score bonus of +5 until level 6
Might as well just be a variant human since your ability scores will be crap either way.

I find that half the enjoyment is making a badly rolled character work, granted some system are so bad that you need a good rolled character. The solution is simple just avoid those system.

You're not depriving them of shit. They can make whatever character they want with a point buy system.

You're just forcing people to play whatever their rolled stats reflect. In a short game that takes an afternoon to complete, that's fine, but you shouldn't expect people to play characters they have no interest in for several hours every week or so for the duration of a whole campaign.

to be honest i'd just skip the middleman and straight up give the players a stat array to assign. maybe one ultra-specialised one and one average one if you want to get extra jiggy

you avoid both extremes of the 'MUH MINMAXING' and 'MUH UNFAIRNESS' faggotry that way

>rollplayer trying to defend his autistic need to have the highest stats possible "or it just doesn't feel right"

>Roll 10 under on all stats other than wis and int on a barb.
>lol stop rollplaying

>only pretending

>choosing your class before you roll your stats
So your parents rolled really low on your stats irl, eh

A player can whiff his roll on other numbers than 1 or 2 too. Say, I need 12+ to hit a monster. Failing three times in a row is not unlikely, and since most combat take 3-5 turns then yeah your character didn't contribute much.

It's a game not a simulation.

Yeah too bad you can't reroll, am I right?

Well maybe if assholes like you hadn't pushed for them to be as useless and dependent as possible they wouldn't have evolved in that direction. You and the people like you chose this future, don't go complaining about it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

...

>build
You are the problem.

Weakling.

>Not rolling stats until you have a solid sum that fits an agreed powerlevel
>Randomizing stats because the system is so shit that anything else leads to mechanicly overpowered min-maxing
>playing DnD

>playing games that use numbers instead of keywords to mechanically describe a character
This is the future you chose.

Sooo...keep rerolling until I get the exact stats I want then?

>pushing fucking retarded collaborative storytelling experiences but pretending they are games
CSE trash

I meant in real life

I don't think even you yourself know what you're trying to argue.