How do you get around all the supplement bookkeeping? The amount of options available to classes to level the playing field and introduce more interesting options (PHB1 feats are mostly atrocious and martials have no options at all) and a bit more flavor is, to me, daunting. Here I am reading PHB2 - even if I won't run the system, it has some fun ideas and writing behind it (I'm kind of interested in various game systems recently) - only to learn that this PHB refers back to supplements like Complete Adventurer and many others.
I know that the OGL makes everything free now, but it still seems difficult to settle on which book to choose and play.
It's not like people don't play those things - I constantly read stories on Veeky Forums about beguilers, dread necromancers, warblades and what not.
But how the fuck do you choose what is best and how do you manage to navigate it through all the fluff in the book?
To placate the possible edition war shitstorm and HYTNPD&D, pic related is a friendly PC portrait/concept. I don't want trouble.
Jaxon Anderson
People have made searchable SRDs. It's one of the big things PF has going for it- there's too much splat bloat, but at least it's easy to comb though.
Lincoln Robinson
This is one of the reasons I swapped to PF- there's a number of sites that make organizing the info way easier (D2pfsrd and Archives of Nethys are personal faves). 3.5 has the srd, but it's only core. Is DnDtools still up? I know it was good.
Gavin Long
You're supposed to own the books, user.
And I do. I own EVERY SINGLE 3.5 SUPPLEMENT except for BoVD and setting-specific books (and I have a lot of those, too).
But... yeah, splatbook insanity gets to be a bit much. That's why I support not having splats refer to one another, only to the core book, and having them structured so that a fighter build will only use 1 or 2 books.
5e just threw out character customization altogether and the system isn't even structured for converting 3.5 so I will stick to my third edition books.
> But how the fuck do you choose what is best and how do you manage to navigate it through all the fluff in the book?
You read a lot of the books until you know the feats somewhat and can think "oh yeah I can use that feat from this book." I usually copy down the rules text onto index cards if its a character I am seriously running.
Jayden Brown
>Current year >Playing 3.5
Ryder Lewis
Read class handbooks, acquire laser focus.
Isaac Rivera
>But how the fuck do you choose what is best and how do you manage to navigate it through all the fluff in the book? CharOp handbooks.
Isaac Johnson
The D&D 3.5 Compendium app is pretty good for looking shit up during a session, especially when they still offered the full database for download. For understanding where things are at in the first place, use the CharOp handbooks. Ultimately you can't have the level of knowledge you want without making a fuckton of characters.
If you do want a path to follow, read Core, then the Completes + PHB2 + DMG2, then Unearthed Arcana/setting splats/Tomes (but only as you see fit). From there you should only be branching out if there's a CharOp discussing something neat or if you are fishing for anything to support an idea in your head.
You can't go very wrong with Core + Completes + Tomes. At least, no more than what 3.5 already shits bricks at.
Ryan Davis
SRDs make it so much easier.
Adam Long
>You can't go very wrong with Core + Completes + Tomes Actually you can. That's pretty much the worst way to play 3.5 becomes significantly more functional when you ban the core classes and things that interface directly with them.
Lucas Adams
>5e just threw out character customization altogether
Ironically enough, even though 5e has fewer printed options, it has more options you can actually use because almost none of them are traps. If you go through your mountain of 3.5 splats and remove everything that can't be used (either because it was weaker than the designers intended or as a trap to "reward system mastery") I bet what you have left will be smaller than the 5e PHB and the small amount of splat material released for it.
Joseph Ortiz
>idiot who doesn't know how to play and believes the only way to play is in the worst way
Can you stop? You talk like the only way to play is with minmaxers playing cheese wizards. And, the "trap option" business is just a myth regurgitated by people misinterpreting a quote.
Everything in 3.5 is compatible with 3.5. It may require finessing for the sake of balance, but compared to other large games like GURPS, it's not even that difficult. If you want to talk about a game with giant pitfalls that requires expert advice just to play, you should pop into the GURPS general.
Hunter Nelson
Can't really help you with most of that, as I am an autist who enjoys building characters and concepts with the massive amount of options the system provides, But instead of combing through all the books, I use dndtools.net for easy access to classes and spell descriptions. It might be worth your time to take a look.
Blake Torres
Clearly Monte didn't mean to say as much as he let slip. That doesn't mean 3.5 is balanced or that it isn't full of unusable options, and that this fact is likely not noticed right away by new players who naturally assume that all the options are there to be used.
>it's only that way if you're a minmaxer False. If you're intentionally dialing down the power level to fit a certain tone or theme, you're still unable to use most of the options printed. It's just that in that case you're avoiding some options for being too strong rather than being too weak.
Gabriel Cruz
>Clearly Monte didn't mean to say as much as he let slip.
He didn't let anything "slip." You're still misinterpreting it, which doesn't help you regardless of how much you want to pretend that spinning something helps your argument. And, you're even misinterpreting a comment made by someone six years after he stopped working for the company and was trying to sell competing products. It's really the sort of thing where you are just desperate to try and justify your all-consuming hatred, no matter what you need to do in order to do so.
>it isn't full of unusable options
It's usable in different configurations. It's like you didn't even read what you're misquoting.
>you're still unable to use most of the options printed. Your argument is that the only way a game should be played is with every possible option. That doesn't work with games over a certain size or that have a certain degree of mechanical tangibility, and 3.5 is one of the largest games with some of the most explicit and specific mechanics.
If you don't like big games or non-narrative games, that's one thing, but you really need to stop trying to spin up a myth about "trap options", and you would do yourself a big favor by comparing the game fairly against other similar systems and realizing that for what it is, it's actually a pretty impressive game considering its size and mechanical tangibility.
Michael Wright
Plenty of games, GURPS included, sell a lot of supplementary rules where any given game isn't supposed to use all of them, or even most of them. 3.5 is the only book I know if where over half of the core book is unusable in 90% of games.
Matthew Jones
If you're going to dive right into the realm of hyperbole and exaggeration, I guess this is the part in the discussion where all I need to say is "nuh uh" and to leave you in your anger.
Carson Smith
Letting people use every available option is a disaster waiting to happen, familiarize yourself with the content of the books, then decide yourself what classes fit the tone and scope of what you and your group feels like doing.
If you let people play anything they want, it's inevitable that whatever the type of campaign you want to run, there's at least a couple options out there that will turn it completely stupid.
Juan Long
By not including everything.
Henry Price
I have all the fucking 3.5 shit, and I regularly keep track of it like a fucking religious book.
But er, I also am a high WIS individual so I'm capable of it.
Justin Young
You're counting on the fact that I can't measure every 3.5 campaign ever played to gather the statistics needed to prove I'm not exaggerating in the least. But whatever. Enjoy your mountain of books full of unbalanced classes and literally useless feats. I'm sure it was money well spent.
Lincoln Watson
You actually read the books when they came out and have amassed a rather ridiculous library, and the various rules rattling around your head from reading them all through all those years sometimes interferes when you're making rulings in other systems. You download the entire 3.5 library from a torrent site and then read it all multiple times and write down the basics of the fluff you want to keep and use, going slightly mad at all the options and abilities and ideas flowing through your brain. You switch to PF so you have access to the PFSRD and all its fuckign rules at your finger tips due to the extensive hyperlinking to lessen your madness. You still go mad and you love every moment of it as you amass a new library of material for your setting.
Basically, learn to take notes, lots of them. Also having the pdfs is useful so you can have twenty books open at the same time and can cross reference them quickly. OneNote for the Desktop is your friend (abhor the app, it is shit)
Pic related, it's missing a fuckton of stuff I haven't sorted into it. Probably could expand by another 10 gigs at least.
Gavin Campbell
Just as long as you understand you were just talking out your ass, you can go ahead and try to dolly it up any which way you'd like.
