Is the difference between horror and action just the capacity for self defense?

Is the difference between horror and action just the capacity for self defense?

Not really, running away from shit can still be action-y if it's dressed up in a way to feel exciting and intense rather than terrifying and dread-inducing.

Action is riding a roller coaster up to the highest peak. Horror is riding a roller coaster up to the highest peak and then suddenly hearing a suspicious clunk.

No? Not at all?

I'm slightly confused by the point of this thread, starting with such a bizarre statement that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.

No, its compounded by isolation, out-manned, outgunned, or dealing with an unknown enemy. They are similar in vein but its a slider. It depends on how the situations are portrayed and how people react to them.

Sort of. Part of the whole "being chased by a monster" thing is that you have no means in or on your person to harm the monster. Someone else might but they're not here anymore.
It's like Sarah Connor being chased by the Terminator. Even the guy who Knew, Kyle Reese, could only help her run. Ultimately it was a quick-witted use of environment that saved her - something outside of herself.

I'd say the difference between horror and action is the sympathetic character's capacity for self efficacy and the amount of control they have in achieving a favorable outcome. The more a character realizes and accepts the hopelessness of their situation the closer it becomes to being horror and the further it strays from being action.

Well put.

You can defend yourself in horror. Sometimes that makes it better.

I said in a different thread I think the thing that really makes Call of Cthulhu shine is self-destruction. The horror in RPGs is the player's and PC's agency, the ability to watch them destroy their lives for some forlorn hope.

Being chased by a monster isn't horror whether you can fight back or not. Dying to stop it from getting your friends is getting there. Killing someone who trusted you so you can sacrifice them in a ritual to banish the monster, now that's horror.

>No, its compounded by isolation, out-manned, outgunned, or dealing with an unknown enemy.
That can be summarized as compromising hte ability to defend oneself. Lots of horror movies start with professional soldiers or elite forces or so on getting wiped out to demonstrate how tough or foreign a threat is.

No. Horror is more than just being physically powerless - it's also about being mentally powerless.

People talk up "the fear of the unknown", but they always neglect to explain *why* the unknown is scary. What scares us about the unknown isn't the fact that we know nothing about it - it's the fact that we don't know how to deal with it. We don't know what the safe (or at least safest) response is, that will protect us and the things and people we value. We can't build a solid plan of action, because we don't know enough about the Mysterious Thing to predict its behaviour. Hell, just knowing that there is no safe option is a relief, because it means we can stop wasting our time worrying about it and focus on the things that we do have control over.

What scares us isn't the strange footprints in the woods, or the shapes moving in the trees, or the groaning noise coming from the basement. What scares us is the feeling of powerlessness that these things bring - of being faced with a potentially deadly choice, and not knowing the "right" answer. Do I try and follow the footprints? Do I try to chase down the shapes in the trees? Do I investigate the noise in the basement? Are these the "safe" choices? Or would I be better off ignoring the weirdness, and going on with my day? Would I be better off getting the hell out of here?

Having a gun will not save you from a threat of unknown nature. Only knowledge will.

A commonly missed element of horror and fear in interactive media is the contrast and subversion.

You can't just drop a person into a run or die situation, because then that's all they know.

You want to give them capability. Give them victories. Give them the ability to RESPOND to situations, and THEN take it away.

An example is in Metroid Fusion of all places. Most of the game you play as the usual powerful Samus Aran. Every problem can be solved. But at certain points, you come across the SA-X, which you are unable to do anything at all to combat. Your cannon does nothing and missiles bounce off. All you can do is run and hide. Meanwhile, it can completely freeze you in place, taking what little power you have left away from you for a few moments, leaving you completely and utterly helpless.

These moments are powerful for their contrast. You ride the rollercoaster for the highs and lows, not to sit around the same place for the duration.

So, what you're saying is.

The difference is capacity for self defense?

No, because as I said, even just knowing that you can't actually defend yourself is a relief of sorts. When you present people with too many choices of roughly the same utility, most become paralysed, unable to decide know what to do. This is especially common in situations that a person isn't familiar with - with no experience, every option seems equally viable.

Cutting away some of those options, such as by revealing that the monster cannot be harmed, releases some of the pressure on the individual. Now they don't have to think about how to kill the monster - they just have to figure out how to escape from it.

This is why zombies no longer hold the same primal horror as they once did. We've all seen enough movies, and played enough games, that we know what the safest and most reliable courses of action are. Cut off the head or destroy the brain. Kill or abandon anyone who gets bitten. Stay away from population centres. And so on. There's no more mystery there.

Damn that's a good thought.

FIrst of all I gotta say that the biggest deal with horror is the quality of the writing. You can get away with an OK script for action, you can't get away with an OK script for horror. It needs to be outstanding to be really scary. See If you are a hack like Cameron you can't pull off horror so your best best is to put lotsa guns and cool shit in it.

I think what makes a proper horror is the fact that there is no direct antagonist. Even when there IS an actual entity like a monster. it's not a character that is participating in the story on the same level as the others. It's more like a force that the actual characters need to deal with? But I can't really tell since the great divider IMO is the writing

so you're saying horror is also about killing the target? just like action?

Antagonists need not be specific individual entities to be antagonists. For instance, in a man vs nature story, it's not improper to consider nature the antagonist.

yeah I definitely worded that improperly

Now that I think of it, zombie movies went from horror to action and the zombies stayed pretty much the same. Actually I think they're much more dehumanized than they used to be... I'm probably off track.

it is also about witnessing a horrible accident, and being unable to find a solution or cure

Actually maybe it's just about how much you care for the characters that makes it horrifying.

Not having the capacity for Self Defense is not the same things as knowing you don't have the capacity for self defense.

Not quite.
Action without the capactity for self defense would be terror, not horror.

In the literary sense:
Fear with jumpscares, running, and adrenaline is terror.
Fear with slow and creeping realizations and a dreadful and tense atmosphere is horror.

Horror as a genre uses both, but good stuff uses more horror than terror.

>Horror is more than just being physically powerless - it's also about being mentally powerless.

THIS. Not that most of you will be able to comprehend it.

>Not having the capacity for Self Defense is not the same things as knowing you don't have the capacity for self defense.

And the semantic douchebaggery begins...

Later sperglords.

>practicing kung fu on your way to school and you overslept so you took your cereal with you.jpg

Its the offensive capability of the horror element more than the offensive capability of the protagonist.

Metroid is action, not horror