Why are the new removal spells in MTG so fucking useless?

It's also white

Well his point still stands, and to be honest instant speed removal has been getting much weaker.

They tried a standard environment with a low density of answers to see how it would turn out. They saw it's shit so they're revertng back to good removal, but it will take around two blocks to have things like doomblade back.

I wouldn't go that far. You could only do so much with the power 9 and dual lands back then. I'd argue Urza's Saga and Mirrodin 1.0 blocks were far more powerful in regards to the sheer degeneracy that could be achieved all on their own.

Tempest block through to Urza block was fucked.
They make up the majority of the broken reserved list cards in legacy.

...

StP is THE best removal in the whole game period. Fatal Push is a very very good removal, just not the best

Tragic Slip was the stuff of nightmares back in standard

>Well his point still stands

Not really, they're not the same color and therefore they do different things.

And again, since alpha is the highest power set ever released with the most powerful spells for every color (Except, perhaps ironically, black), comparing something released now to something released then is hardly fair.

>and to be honest instant speed removal has been getting much weaker.

Most aspects of the game have gotten generally weaker.

>WTC wants sorcery speed removal to matter
>Prints a bunch of creatures that completely ignore sorcery speed removal

good job Wizards!

It kills goyf.

Fatal push isn't the most useless, but it's up there.

As far as CMC 1 spot removal it's goes

Path
Bolt
Push
Unsummon

Push and bolt can trade places depending on the type of deck you put it in. At least with bolt you can fling it to the face if it won't kill something.

>ever seeing a permanent above 3 CMC in legacy formats that wasn't cheated into play

Jace never gets cheated out.

Also what is Nic Fit and 12 post?

>bolt
>killing anything push can't

Push instead can kill most things bolt can't, including but not limited to:

-tharmogoyf
-scavenging ooze
-master of etherium
-serra ascendant
-grim flayer

and that's without revolt

>Confusing utility/flexibility over raw removal strength

ISHUGDDT

When is the last time Fatal push removed a newly summoned lilly?

you can't point push at someones face.

It's because removal makes for bad feefees, especially in Limited. We can't have your 2/2 with flying that cost 3 getting taken out easily, that's just bad feefees. I'm convinced Push being uncommon was a mistake

Path to Exile is objectively better in certain vintage match-ups where decks tend not to run basics, Workshop, and Dredge for example.

Overall hate cards are pretty weak right now in Standard. The overall guess is to make the game more appealing to the newer influx of players who can more safely play their Agro decks without concern of getting snuffed by Instants. It isn't fun if their Mythic gets slapped right out of the gate.

However, it's kinda both funny and sad seeing some of the kids at my FNM play against my Grixis Control and watching that realization of how important my untapped lands are.

>"Before the end of your turn, Fatal Push/Grasp of Darkness/Unlicensed Disintegration that guy you just dropped in."

Or the look on their face when I flash in a Torrential Gearhulk to recycle a Disallow. I'm just hoping Amonkhet puts more power in removal.

That should really be Creature or Player, be Instant or cost 1 less.

Any one of those would make it fine.

Maro has mentioned that they realize the balance of removal vs threats is pushed to the threats side and they are working to change that.

>summoned
Yugioh kiddie detected. Play the game a little more before forming an opinion on what makes a good card.

>1/2/3 CC instant speed removal is fine
>2 CC counterspells are detrimental to game fun

Am I missing something here, or is Maro?

...or an olde fogey.

I've never played Yugimon but I've been playing magic since I was 16 (15 years ago.) I started playing in the Odyssey block my sweet summer child, you don't know bad from good.

>Creatures: The Tappening

there's your answer

We can't have timmy getting his 20 mana Creature getting countered for only two mana user, come on.

I was once that timmy, and was horribly confused by this older kid stopping all of my sweet creatures, baffled that pic related didn't come back to my hand. But it's part of the learning process and you grow out of it.

That is true, and in other push is objectively better

>summon enchantment
>summon artifact
>summon land

I can smell the fedora on this one

Typically the first one to call Fedora is the one to have a couple in their closet.

m'triggered.

Like this?

>old

found the newfag

Jace can't be pushed anyway, but point taken. It's still rare.

>3R
>for 4 damage
>at common
Jesus Christ. What happened to the common power level? I was looking at my Frontier deck, all I ran for commons was Swamp and Duress.

jesus christ, that art is horrible

Sure. Let's go back to the era of Draw-Go control where playing the game is something only one do the two players can do.

> is something only one do the two players can do.
>tfw to intelligent to play creatures:the tappening

>I'm convinced Push being uncommon was a mistake
We're pretty sure Fatal Push is the uncommon printed on the rares sheet
I see it as a way of correcting the "mistake"

Flame Lash is not playable in any limited format, but from a preconstructed deck, so it's rarity doesn't have anything to say.

>T1 I play a land and cast-
>>Counter with Mental Misstep
>T2 play a land and cast-
>Countered with spell snare
>T3 play a land and cast a creature.
>>Resolves but I'm going to exile it on my turn
Etc etc.

It's missing the Land lockdown.

That is seriously some great fucking news.

>Mental Misstep
Modern became a format in Aug 2011, and Misstep was banned. It was banned in Legacy in September. Misstep was never standard with Spell Snare. But that's beside your point (it's only viable in Vintage or Kitchen Table).

This isn't going after the fact that Misstep was a legitimately broken card. Your example is shit, and your saltiness about counterspells is pathetic. Get good.

...

Besides mental misstep he does have a point. When the other person playing consistently ends up with a empty board state (besides lands) and obviously isn't having fun then something is wrong with the game design.

>boohoo I'm too stupid to play around counter magic so that means that when my epic 9/9 dragon gets countered only one person is playing ;_;
kys

t. Someone that can't follow a post chain

>two blocks
Try two years. They've just now realized that standard is shit but they can only now start changing things back. That's 4 blocks down the road because the next two blocks are at the printer and the 3rd block out is in the art phase.

You practically need to sacrifice something to the gods to have the correct counter at the correct time in modern, what the fuck are you on about?

The format fosters counter spells that are so specific that they are barely useful at the time you are holding them.

Go play a different game you faggot.

>Implying this wasn't by design.

Format has to be shit to make people flock to it once its not. Wizard's is stupid like a fox.

Because kill spells are feelbad material now.
First it started with nerfing spells that negated regeneration, now it's progressed further.

Damnation was in the same set as that, argument discarded.

And I can only run 4. Maybe I want more removal, or maybe I'm not running white.

He was talking about when Draw-Go control was big.

that feeling when you run 21 counters and 4 Disks.

Uh, what is the win condition? Keep in mind I can't read the cards at this resolution.

>Before all the power creep
Yeah man, moxen, dual lands, black lotus, sol ring, time walk and ancestral recall were pretty weak cards. I'm glad we now have such overpowered shit as siege rhino and Jace the Mind Sculptor.

sorry, it's an ancient list and ancient pic.

1 Rainbow Efreet and 4 Stalking Stones.

>unsummon
Are you retarded? Do you have brain damage?
You also missed out on Swords to Plowshares.

Not technically cmc1 but Dismember should also be on the list.

Talking about modern legal shit you mongoloid.

Wow that's super interesting, so you're ignoring vapor snag then?

If you're looking at CMC1 removal in modern and putting Push at the #3 best spot and still calling it 'up there' when it comes to uselessness you -are- retarded, off the top of my head I can name at least 5 other 1cmc spot removal spells that are worse.

If the other player is constantly slinging Counters and Removal to each thing being played there's a really good chance their board is nearly if not completely empty, too. There are ways to work around this: just create a scenario where the deck can't keep 1 for 1ing you and you'll eventually gain advantage. If your deck can't do that it's time to retune.

Sometimes the whole playstyle of Draw-Go is exciting because it's about which player blinks, bluffs or gets punished first. It can almost feel like fencing with a constant back and forth waiting for that perfect opening.

My most exciting victories in Magic are from when I manage to bait out their counter with a non-important cast, hold out until they tap out, wait nervously until I can follow up with my own counter (Or two or three) counters of my own just in case, all the while looking at my dwindling library and shrinking life total... not when I just kept slapping down creatures and swinging in.

>MFW it's 2017 and your shit-posting this hard

Planar Chaos was a decade ago

You say that, but there was also a bunch more super powerful cards.
Time Vault
Sol Ring
Wheel of Fortune
Channel
Regrowth
Animate Dead
Balance
Berserk
BoP
Dark Ritual
Lightning Bolt
Contract from Below (the most powerful card ever printed period)
Plow
Counterspell
Demonic Tutor
Sinkhole
Fastbond
Forcefield
Mana Short
Mana Vault
Mind Twist
Nevinyrral's Disk
Power Sink
Stasis
Winter Orb
Armageddon
Wrath of God

Fatal push is good though, and you've got stuff like unlicensed disintegration which is murder that sometimes bolts your opponent in the face.

What do you guys think about Frontier? Do you play it?

holy shit that's gross.

I think it has potential. Fetches and Baby Jace are incredibly important right now but decks are still being discovered.

I just like it because I can take one of my favorite decks ever and put giant robots in it.

>Flashing in Torrential Gearhulk to replay Dig Through Time

I would play it, but it has fetches in it so I might as well just play modern.

The best format by far and I wait for the day memedern dies and it replaces it.

>memedern
>Implying modern being meme is worse than hipstier format.

Keep your shitty format, Modern is where it's at.

Reminder that the best removal spell in MTG is also one of the first ever printed.

>memedern is where it's at
Yeah I sure do love dying to hyper aggro, getting outvalued and outpressured by DSJ and if i somehow manage to survive that you get tron and scapeshift faggots killing you. It's a fucking non interactive aggro format and it is probably the worst format after tiny leaders.

>Im bad at playing a really unforgiving format where decks/playing skill need to be dialed to 11.

I need fries for all this salt.

>if you don't like this shitty aggro format you're bad
I regularly win my local legacy tournaments so nice try faggot. Just because you like playing a garbage uninteractive format doesn't mean it's good. I can't wait for frontier to take it over I fucking hate memedern.

Why the fuck would frontier be any better in that regard?

>win at legacy
>modern is too uninteractive.

Holy shit my sides. Your not fooling anyone JR. If you want non-interactive try actually playing legacy or vintage instead of claiming you do. Force of will Isn't a want in decks that can run it, it's a need to make sure your opponent doesn't go off on turn 1.

You have incredible thin skin and weak points for someone who supposedly plays and wins in the second fastest format in the game.

Because it wouldn't be dominated by linear uninteractive aggro/combo? Actual control would exist? People bitch about frontier being 4c goodstuff (which it isn't) but disregarding that the meta would be 10x healthier than memederns ever could be.

I know how legacy works you mongoloid and just because there are a couple degenerate decks doesn't invalidate the rest of the format.

>implying I don't know how FoW works
wew lad

The difference between 90% of legacy decks and modern decks is that they actually try to interact with the opponent instead of goldfishing faster. It's obvious you're a memedern babby who can't handle his favorite format being called out so just stop now kiddo.

>legacy decks try to interact instead of working harder to win condition.
>admits that decks try to go off before opponents turn 1.

Ok good job getting me to reply this long troll.

>defending modern
>no pod
>no twin
>no good control
>no good combo
>legacy is uninteractive but I'm gonna ignore Miracles exists
>death's shadow zoo requires skill
>fundrazi requires skill
>the format almost costs as much as legacy to get into at this point

I'd respond to you and give your (You), but I saw your other posts. You know nothing about MTG, you're just being a contrarian cunt because Veeky Forums has the easiest (you) farming this side of /tv/

Shill pls go

go back to your containment general

Define interactive.

I wouldn't bother asking the troll questions, this feeds the troll.

>admits that decks try to go off before opponents turn 1

Not parent but lets actually see what decks try to do this:
belcher (1%)
oops all spells (1%)
manaless dredge (1%)
Those numbers are rounded up, so total number of decks that try to win turn 1, is less than 3% of the meta. Please actually know something about a format before talking about it.

No u

I never said Modern was in a good place, but Frontier is pretty awful. I'd rather shell out for Legacy than play the boredom that is Frontier.