The Witch is Dead Edition

I find that the factions I play (Khador, Menoth, Ret, Circle, Cryx) have a lot of viable infantry. Except Cryx, who only has a few, which are coincidentally the only ones I care about.

Which factions can't run infantry?

Cygnar is about where they were in mk2 as far as choices go. We've always had lances, we just traded gunmages for trenchers. The rest of our options were always somewhere between subpar and aweful. Or at least, that's the popular opinion.

I personally like stormblades, but understand why people say they need a better delivery mechanic than most of what the faction can give them.

No we can't, they ignore us and do what they want.

In a discussion about The Child being super shitty at both her jobs as a melee beater and a beast heavy warlock someone said he'd rather take The Heretic over The Child every time because he's actually a decent warlock.

Pagani's response was "So The Heretic is the issue?".

Here's a screencap for posterity.

Any legion players have any tips for fielding nyss legionnaires? I never get much out of them unless they're next to my blightbringer for the armor buff. I quite like the models, but feel like I'm not really using them effectively.

Where's this going down?

Take swordsmen instead. Leggos are poopoo.

>superior to every other option at its scale
And what exactly are those options you speak of?

CID forums.

AoS, 40K.

I mean there's KoW too, but that's a fundamentally different game despite using the same scale.

Is Gates of Antares a similar scale? Saw one demo a year ago but no idea if it was representative.

Yeah, it is, but it's really not that good.

Better than 40K in terms of rules though.

Wrath of Kings is a good game in the same scale, but it never took off much outside of its kickstarter and is pretty much stillborn.

That was another one where the models were so out there artistically that no one ever seemed to get really into it. Had one group of like 5 at my LGS that tried to push it and the SciFi one I can't remember the name of but no one else ever bought in.

Is Kings of war any good? I'm legit thinking about getting into it. I've never done the whole movement trays sort of thing. the one Obsidian war golem model loons sweet. kinda like a wolf wrath

cid.privateerpress.com/forum/theorycrafting-listbuilding/t-l-taco-field-test-spring-2017/2537-improving-the-child

You have to get approved by the staff for an account for the forums to view it, though.

Getting one is easy, thankfully.

I quite like it, it plays fast and the movement is intuitive and fun.

What about warpath?

Is it even out yet?

I am not allowed to CID, so I guess I have to live with the fact that Witch2 will be just as bad as Witch1.

is it competitive like wmh?

If you want yeah, it's very balanced (some options are OP, like some flying big monsters) and you can play with clocks, it released tournament rules if I recall well, to limit cheesiness and buff weak units. But a beer and pretzels game it works well too,you can make lots of different armies inspired in lots of fantasy universes with ease, specially if mages aren't that important.

If you use the tournament pack and the FAQ like you are supposed, to then definitely. I picked it up myself because it is WHFB but without the bullshit, and I can use WMH figures in my army with the entire thing being tournament legal.

Where do you kings of war players hang out online? I've never seen a general for it here on TG?

I honestly haven't found much of a use for them since MK3 started. Even last edition I used them mostly for cheap pot bodies, but now that they cost more and lesser warbeasts are less useful I can't really justify their use.

Check the big Alternative Wargames general. Lots of smaller games end up there.

So I finally spent some money instead of being a Jew and got myself a unit of Praetorian Swordsmen and UA. Now originally I was running Nihilators with Naaresh, but I'm correct in thinking that Swordsmen are just straight up better, right? Same DEF but higher ARM, with the UA they get sidestep so can still chew through infantry. They lose out on threat range but man like, mini feat weaponmaster is pretty tasty on a cheap-ish unit like that.

Which then brings me to the question of do I just fuck Naaresh off and use Makeda1?

First game in four months later, rate my list from 1 to painfully generic

>Ret
>Heavy spam
Pick one. Ret is a faction of wet noodle warjacks and infantry that hits like a train.

IMHO you should have fucked off from Nareesh awhile ago. He's a trap!

Is it wet, like being set on fire? Is it social, like a severe autism convention?

I was under the impression that Vyros1 enjoys having heavies to zip around with Mobility and smash things while under feat.

Better to swap the Sphinx for a unit of Halberdiers, then?

>Naaresh is a trap
Not exactly famalamadingdong. The problem is people are afraid of fielding Cyclops Savages, when with Rush they have an outright stupid threat range of 13". Under feat a Savage can almost take out a heavy assuming it's low enough DEF to reliably hit, and against high DEF stuff you can just boost the hit and laugh as you still put huge damage on them. Sure they'll probably frenzy next turn, but I've had quite a lot of success running them at my LGS purely because no one wants to have to spend a heavy's activation dealing with one since a 13/19 with 19 boxes left won't die to regular infantry unless you put it somewhere really stupid like right in front of them. Also with a TyCom, Naaresh's assassination game is huge. And there's always my favourite trick of a Handler whips him, he transfers the damage to a beast still giving him a blood token, and the beast now has Pain Response. Just feels super efficient and lets you put PR online remotely, potentially opening up unexpected lines of play outside feat turn. Oh and don't forget he has a massive 32 beast points. It's like he makes a Gladiator only cost 11 points.

He's much better than most people give him credit for, the issue is just that Makeda1 lets Karn and Swordsmen go ballistic. AND SHE KEEPS MINIONS ALIVE WHAT THE SHIT IS THAT FEAT ALL ABOUT

Whats your problem with OW2 (aside from the shitty feat).

That's the problem. The feat at least did something before.

>three heavies is spam now

Wew.

Nah, the list is fine. Not super hyper competitive (super hyper competitive simply wouldn't be running Vyros1, because he's not at simple to play as Ossy or Issyria), but good, and certainly not generic.

I mean, Halberdiers are always good for jamming purposes, but your list isn't in dire need of changing. Personally I'd take either the Sphinx or one of the Griffons out, but I'd probably use the points for some solos or a bit of ranged threat. Ret has a lot of units that are super good at scalpeling out key threats or annoying shit that are usually hard to get to grips with, which may cause your current list trouble.

Oh sorry I forgot, 3 heavy warjacks doesn't cost half of your list's worth of points, that's heavy warbeasts.

The list looks fine. My only concern with it is feat delivery. pVyros' feat is a monster to deliver, and if you get unlucky with terrain you're pretty fucked as the Sentinels are your only real means to the flank bonus. I would recommend dropping one of the Griffons for a min unit of infiltrators.

Fuck off, do you even Ret retard?

I have seen desperate things like Arcanists and even Sylys having to run at my jacks to get the feat buff.

It's great.

>Predictably, most Cryx players did not handle the change from supreme overpowered god faction to more or less equal with everyone else well.
Most MK2 Cryx players were dogshit who supplemented their lack of skill with overpowered and overperforming models.

When they were brought back in line with everyone (and they have been, despite memelords thinking Cryx is somehow worse than Convergence, Trolls and former Skorne) they were now at a skill level far below that of the average player, and started losing. They attribute it to MK3 changes when in reality they play like utter dogshit and refuse to git gud.

I must admit, part of me does find a sense of pure schadenfreude in this.

One of the people I really managed to grind my anti-Cryx levels on was one of these guys. He was your typical specimen - he used only the most competitive, overtested builds and only the most infuriatingly overpowered 'casters. I got games with him constantly, because he'd actively avoid fighting anyone close to his powerlevel, like Cygnarans or Legionnaires or other Cryx players, and he knew that my Ret would always be at a disadvantage against him. For the longest time I didn't even have a single way to deal with Banes, as it took years for Ret to get a single method of circumventing Stealth.

I learned a fuckton about fighting Cryx from him. Then the update hit, and, holy shit, he was not happy. I played one game with him after that, and I haven't seen him put Warmahordes stuff on a table since. He does MtG now.

I feel like it's a shame that the game lost people over this, but fuck, man, what did they expect? They gave the babbies an army of choice and somehow thought they'd stick around when the playing field was leveled and they had to actually learn to tactics.

>AND SHE KEEPS MINIONS ALIVE WHAT THE SHIT IS THAT FEAT ALL ABOUT

Gremlin Swarms are probably the best use I've found for it for Minion options. I didn't even think much of them, I just had 3 points and thought it would be cute to block charge landing zones with. But holy shit try putting one of these assholes on the table and realize just how poorly prepared people are to deal with a stealth incorporeal model.

Are Cryx really that bad or are people babies? Mk2 Asphy2 was the worst type of ass cancer for mercs. Feat to kill your colossal, biles to kill your infantry. Fuck that faction

They're not actually low tier like many Cryxfags report. They're pretty balanced now.

They do have internal problems though. Some of their options are just straight up inferior to others to the point where there's really no point in ever running them. Satyxis units are still SUPER good like they were before and you'd have to be retarded to run any other kind of infantry, for example.

They're not bad on an inter-faction level, but on an intra-faction level I can see where people are coming from.

Cryx is really strong still, they are just predictable because all of their good models allow exactly two lists and three casters to see the table at higher level play.

They also struggle against Cygnar if they bring the Haley Sue x Sloan pairing. But everyone struggles with Cygnar, they are fucking retarded atm.

I've found that any of the high DEF minions are the best things to bring purely because it's impossible to pile enough shots into them to make me let one go. Bellows Crew are nuts I've found.

>Are Cryx really that bad

We have several Cryx players in our meta playing Ghost Fleet now and it's actually really brutal. No one is teching for infantry now, and if you're not prepared for it then there's literally nothing you can do about the Rev crew just coming back and back and back. It's not unbeatable, but with Denny1 at the helm it's certainly a powerhouse list. The shitty thing is that a lot of factions can't afford to have one of their lists teched against Ghost Fleet because then they potentially weaken themselves from the other side of the spectrum like gunlines or jack spam.

I can sympathize that Cryx players now might not want to have to buy a lot they don't already own, but if you want to stay competitive then Ghost Fleet is the way to do it.

>or are people babies

tl;dr kind of both, but mostly people are being babies. I do agree that the Cryx internal balance is really shit right now. It's either good enough to play with the big boys(Denny1, Coven, Satyxis), or just flat out garbage(Banes, McThralls, most helljacks). I think what people are really salty about is that Cryx in Mk2 required a LOT of purchases, and now a lot of those purchases are just sitting on the shelf while they take the good 15% of their faction.

I don't understand where you're going with this.

Does anybody have the rules for the Grymkin?

>(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
- Molik Karn [19]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Saxon Orrik [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Feralgeist [2]

Find a flaw I fucking dare you to try. This will be paired with:

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

>Literally not one weakness in this pairing.

>Find a flaw I fucking dare you to try

No.

>>Literally not one weakness in this pairing.

Okay.

Who is planning on playing the spooky halloween faction?

>spooky halloween faction?
Can't stop thinking of how cool the faction would have been if they went serious-Bloodborne instead of goofy-Halloween. It would have fit the aesthetics of the setting so much better.

Oh, well.

They didn't really go Halloween. They're actually really thematically tight in terms of being all about pastoral horror.

The problem is that a few models, like the tree thing, just look too cartoony.

>They didn't really go Halloween.

Bruh there is literally a unit with jack o lantern heads.

I really like the Hollowmen and the Heretic. In terms of fluff, rules, and aesthetic those models really grab my interest. Some of the other mechanics in the faction really speak to me too.

I may try my hand at giving the Dread Rots different heads. I feel like they'd look really good with creepy bagheads, more like traditional scarecrows.

I'd only really make one army to play occasionally, as I'm not interested in any other of the warlocks.

...Which are derived from traditions mostly adhered to by farmers back in ye olde days.

Grymkin are pretty much horror for country folk. Mad animals, bad harvests, scary witches in the woods, etc. Which makes sense considering that they're mostly on the fringes of civilization and in most nations their targets - Menites - are the more traditional, country types rather than people in the IK's cities. They're actually pretty clever, really.

I just think they went too cartoony with the proportions in places. The themes are spot on, the execution... hit and miss.

But I think everyone would've just preferred Gothic horror mixed with hell. Like, the Piggy Backs fill me with disgust in a way that breaks the fourth wall. I don't like it.

Well don't expect her to get good any time soon. The devs want her to be shit at personal assassination and easy to kill.

I definitely would not have preferred gothic horror.

Not even sure what you mean by gothic horror, since actual gothic horror is really about atmosphere, architecture, and heavy psychological focus, but I'm assuming you mean vampires and werewolves.

That said, Bloodbourning the faction up a bit would be cool. I'd like to see the theme of pastoral horror kept, since that isn't something I see often in wargames, but less cartoony flair and more tentacles would be a welcome change.

I don't understand people trying to argue like it's not a nightmare before Christmas dad joke faction. You guys can just say you like it, that's fine. But don't try to lie to us. Pumpkin head guys and units called Skin and Moans. Just stop

Don't forget the Frightmare.

I tried forgetting :(

Have we even seen the model for this?

Not the model, just the art

A model died for this

It's embarrassing.
DC starts a project, comes up with Convergence... a half faction with a decent theme, internal consistency, decent jokes (like a caster with twin weapons action and reaction), etc.

Soles gives us Frightmare, Neigh Slayers, Skin and Moans, and three customisable feats per game because balance. Fuck Soles.

What are you working on?

So you think that, eh? How many times have you actually played the lists?

Is it possible to extract casual fun from Thyron, or is he just assassination bait at all play levels?

Ferox. Sweet sweet hell.

Wait til Fane Guardian comes out. Riposte the world

>old witch will never be good
Hold me commarad

What are your feels, fellow skornanon, on Kelts instead of Karax with Mak 1? With quicken they are absolute dicks to hit. And I'm guessing the Karax in your Rasheth list are just for jamming and arc nodes? Ive yet to find a Rasheth Mammoth list I like.

Requesting help, I am a having difficulty dealing with a Krueger Loki combo. I Play Ret and so far my solution is just to use Vyros 1 and use inviolable resolve to stave is off the drag but any tips for playing Ret into circle would help.

>Krueger Loki combo
How does that work?

Krueger can tk Loki and arc through for 4 inches of movement then get drag and buy attacks, then stone warp loki away usually after a stalker finished what loki couldn't and gets warped himself.

That's pretty good. Seems like the best solution would be destroying a stone or using something drag-immune.

IR works but I can only put it on one model, my biggest issue is getting up the board like that when he blocks all the charge lanes with stones and mannikens then just warp drags my other Jacks. Screening them with Dawnguard have a little effect because of Kuruegers lighning gun/ berserk warped stalkers with sprint.

Do ret get any cheap, relatively disposable shield guards?

We have 6 point lights with Shield Guard. Literally a theme that gives all Jacks Shield Guard

>How many times have you actually played the lists?
Quite a few times, actually

Blade Shield only works against ranged attacks and not magic, and they're still only MAT6. And they cost an extra 4 points. I mean I get that they're excellent at jamming, but if your opponent doesn't have any guns they just seem like a waste of points. At least with Karax I know what I'm getting every game.

Drag is no longer a problem then, advance in a brick, flick off shots to the ones at the back.

Sounds like Helios could be very useful in the matchup too.

Yeah I'm not the user having trouble with it

I'm working on finishing my Flamebringers, and then Sunbursts. After that three lists will be done

Nice. We get a lot of pure-theory posters here. But if you have experience, please don't mind me asking:

Which one do you drop into these matchups and why?

Cygnar: Haley2/Nemo3 or Haley2/Stryker1
Cryx: Denny1/Coven
Protectorate: Amon/Sevy2 or Amon/HR or Sevy2/HR
Legion: Abby2/whatever

These are the ones I'm currently worried about the most.

I certainly prefer the Tim Burton style they went with.

>Cygnar
Rasheth. Castigate stops Thorn from being annoying, and sheer weight of electro leaps makes Makeda1's much heralded feat much worse
>Cryx
Rasheth. He seems better into both feats since a Mammoth standing still and boostig hits with Puppet Master will still land shots even at RAT2, and Coven don't stop me running in warriors to arc through
>Menoth
Makeda1. Swordsmen do great work against spam lists. I get to push forwards hard and pop feat, making it nigh-impossible for my opponent to actually make good use of Synergy. Rasheth can't clear out enough infantry, and a lone Mammoth won't trouble 6 Crusaders
>Legion
Rasheth. Abby2's beasts can't really crack the Mammoth even on feat turn since it's at ARM22 with the Agonizer sat behind. Not to mention Sunder Spirit is exceptional when you can pop one off from out of nowhere through a warrior as losing Slipstream at a bad moment can really put a damper on Legion's threat ranges. Legion beasts are a fairly ideal target for a Mammoth too, as 7 to hit on 3d6 is pretty easy, then their ARM is down at 18 so fuckin' A there lad. Sure I don't know the other caster, but whatever it is I'd still most likely bring Rasheth

I see. Have you played Makeda1 into Sevy2 yet? I feel like this would be rather hard on her.

I haven't played Makeda1 into him yet, and I can imagine it being a rough matchup, but that's my main problem with Menoth these days; it feels like I'm playing list chicken against them constantly.