Are transgender people considered heretics in Warhammer 40k

In Horus Heresy novels, homosexuals exist and no one gives a shit. I assume the same applies to trans people too.

Most places conscript regardless of gender as well so it's really irrelevant.

I think they have bigger fish to fry.

Now, if you're a super slutty trap who wants to fuck everything that moves, that's a Slaaneshi thing but if you're just a lady who wants to be a dude and shoot xenos, that's probably fine.

Nobody gives a fuck OP take this agenda faggotry back to /pol/ or /lgbt/

All things considered, medical and even psychiatric treatment in 40k is significantly more advanced than modern standards. If you have the money, you could probably get something close to 100%-effective gender-reassignment surgery, complete with vat-grown organs.

That said, they've probably got some level of gene therapy or medicine to just stop the dysphoria from manifesting in the first place, which is both significantly easier and significantly more effective.

I've seen one of the Commissar Cain series have lesbians included too and folks in the imperium gave zero fucks about it.

Ask Dave King...I mean, sorry it's Delany King now. S/he's got a lot to say about trans people in the 41st millenium

kingsminis.blogspot.com.au/2017/03/roadmap-for-games-workshop-to-fix-it.html

^THIS

Sorry but I must admit, Veeky Forums seems to be more reasonable and less hostile than Tumblr when it comes to this stuff in 40k. This is pretty nice.

As an aside that has little to do with the main topic, it's somewhat clever how the chaos gods are lined up and how the empire works:

Squalor and poverty mean that the working class citizen, be it a factory worker in a forge world, a every joe doing city jobs in a imperial world or a peasant in an agriworld, will likely have a short life cut even shorter by diseases. And if they rely on esoteric/mystic rituals as supertitions to try and cure it, there's a chance they won't work and the ones that will are likely nurgle related.

Nobles live in decadent lifestyles that are a slip away from leading to cults of pleasure, obsession with perfection in their hobbies, drug use, cruelty...All sorts of things linked to Slaanesh. He/She is the deity for excess, which is a luxury only few can afford to have, not just in money but time.

Tired of this oppressive system and want to change it or overthrow it? You are likely to caught Tzeench's eyes, which will eventually lead you into getting fucked once you are done being a pawn in his games.

Give up political reform and let rage alone dictate your actions? Welcome to Khorne.

Slave under your planetary governor without complaining and you may live long enough to die of old age at 40, or when the next wave of daemons/xenos arrive. That if you don't get drafted into the guard and given a lasgun to face Necrons light years away from your homeland. Assuming you don't get eaten by daemons in the journey there since all travels must go through warp, which is just a funny world for 'Hell, but lovecraftian horrors in technicolour instead of red men with horns.'

"Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."

Given the problems the Imperium has with Daemons, Xenos and Heretics I suspect the petty divisions that afflict the contemporary world are the least of their worries.
(individual societies may vary)

>tranny hive-gangers with stolen implants and back-alley surgical mods

Show me in the doll which sexual organs you secretly believe you shouldn't have.

That's some massive projection, op. Have you considered therapy? Or suicide?

>I just assume they either fix them or if they are not fixed beyond repair, then they get killed on the spot.
One can hope.

I feel like Veeky Forums is relatively less hostile about this shit in general unless it's brought up with regards to politics.
Rolling dice in basements pretending to be someone they're not and/or hanging out with some of the most publicly scorned elements of society could make someone rather apathetic to people's sexuality and gender. Speaking for myself, I don't give a shit about your genitals, what you think of your genitals and who you touch genitals with. Life is a shitty modern d20 LARP anyway.

Isn't everyone gonna point to the genital region of the doll, and assuming it's a regular doll, it wouldn't be clear if they mean penis or vagina...Your test seem flawed.

Looks like you might be the one projecting here. I'm just asking a question about lore buddy.

>How would the imperium handle these folks?
There's one Inquisitor who's so confident that trans people are heretics, and another Inquisitor so confident that trans people are just an odd wrinkle of Humanity, that they're willing to wage literal war against one another.

Squads of Acolytes in dark corners of hive worlds, shooting each other over whether or not it's okay to suffer chicks with dicks and bros with tits to live.

Because Warhammer 40K is a dystopian *parody,* and was never meant to be taken seriously.

But I can totally see Sisters of Battle as strict TERFs

Dysphoria is a brain thing that basically tells you your body, particularly your sex-specific characteristics, feel wrong. There's some evidence to suggest it's a brain chemistry and/or brain development issue, with the brains of those who have the condition showing neurological patterns somewhat like a hybrid between the male and female average. Reassignment surgery started as a thing because we had and still have no way to target the brain to fix this yet.

Unfortunately, the current political climate has us treating transgenders like homosexuals instead of, say, schizophrenics, who likewise shouldn't be stigmatized but should be recognized as holding a legitimate and often debilitating medical condition that severely affects their perception and requires proper treatment.

>this is the path to Slaneshi heresy
It's not at all, unless you take it to almost superhuman extremes.
Because most people on Veeky Forums who follow 40k already know OP is absolutely nonsequitor; it doesn't matter in the slightest, or mean a goddamn thing to anyone that MATTERS.
Sure, an individual culture on an individual world could worship someone born intersex as having the blessing of the Emperor for experiencing both parts of his beauticience, or burn them at the stake as a mutant. Point is, in the overarching 40k narrative, it is meaningless, and is regarded precisely as such.
The only time it comes up is the same issue as "female marines": trying to troll or start shit in a situation where it doesn't actually matter for a number of logical in-setting reasons.

It would be nice to think that, but 40k is supposed to be the worst setting imaginable. We know that rich people hunt poor people for sport, and people from the underhive areas are treated as mutants. On barbaric and feudal worlds, there's constant conflict between different tribes. You've got holy wars between different branches of the imperial faith, too.

Some imperial worlds are nice places to live, with advanced medicine and functional societies. But I figure in a lot of places, anyone who's different gets shanked. Even if "different" means "does not wear a massive feather headdress and thirteen sanctified genital piercings, as all normal right-thinking people do."

In one of the newer books Comissar Yarrick is implied to be a homosexual too. Tolerance of gays while still having an aggresively medieval society is just one more of the Imperium's many contradictions.

Nice quads btw.

It's a lore question that isn't approached at any time outside of broad strokes, just like every other pointed cultural issue in the setting.
The only thing universally covered is the Imperial Cult, which only covers Emperor worship.

Oh, ok.

ARE THERE ELEFANTS IN 40K?

WAS THE RIEMANN CONJECTURE SOLVED IN 40K?

DOES THE EMPEROR PREFER REI OR ASUKA?

CAN ALL ELDAR FELLATE THEMSELVES?

See, I can ask fucking pointless questions as well.

Genuine question and not trolling at all: Assuming that we had some way to make gender reassignment surgery a more effective reality, and easier to get done, meaning you become indistinguishable from someone born on the sex you were reassigned as; And assuming that someone who is otherwise in plain use of their mental faculties and not afflicted by any other mental issue, simply decides they wish to become the opposite sex: Is that a problem? And if so, why?

Is there any argument that doesn't patronize the person undergoing the sex change that can be made to say that's harmful for society?

Yes
Yes
Teh Rei
Obviously, it's how they Slaaneshed.

Sounds like you need to tell me who touched you on the doll.

This. It varies from planet to planet. Planetary governors are given carte Blanche to rule their domain as they see fit. You have tyrants to ethical rulers, republics to autocracies and all the various human cultures that are or could be. All the emperor asks is for ultimate loyalty to him, the species, and that you do your part by providing what you and your planet can bear in form of a tithe.

The whole identity thing is more or less a luxury issue. If your chosen population, planet, or what have you, do in fact have the time, energy, and resources to reflect on themselves and their lives, then some would probably end pursuing reassignment surgery. In the grim darkness of the far future, that's a pretty big if.

yeah sure on some (in fact probably most) worlds if you're divergent in any way you're probably not going to have a good time, but I don't think the Imperium itself cares. The Arbites and Inquisition have better things to do with their time

Misato.

This.

A large portion of the Imperium is maintained by an underclass of lobotomised biomechanical horrors.
It's like, sure, this person got a sex change. But the next person has tracks instead of legs, had one brain hemisphere replaced with a cogitator and eats nutrient slurry through a tube.

The official imperium administration has significantly more important things to give a shit about.

That cultural stuff is down to individual planets. I really doubt it would matter except on the most backwards and agrarian of worlds. The Imperial Creed has never mentioned it and I can recall a single female lesbian inquisitor (although thats of course someone with a great deal of privilege).

^This essentially. It tends to be the correct answer to many questions about life in the Imperium.

You'll have worlds where nobody bats an eye if you tell them you're trans. Then you'll have worlds where they'll burn you alive in the belief that you're a heretic. And probably worlds that lie somewhere in between in terms of response.

On a galactic scale I don't imagine the Imperium cares very much about something so trivial. Provided it doesn't start to look too Slaaneshi, you should be fine. So long as you've got the proper paperwork. That's one issue I could imagine transgenders running into is saying you're one gender but then official records showing you (or at least who you're claiming to be) as the other gender.

Yeah. I imagine only on feral or agri world it would really be looked down on since ensuring generational continuity is imperative for survival.' Individuals that eschew their ability to reproduce for the sake of pure personal preference would probably be considered a threat to the group.

Other than that, I imagine it plain varies from being considered flesh cult heresy on pious worlds to common or unimportant on wealthy worlds.

As with most things, generally the Imperium doesn't give a shit because there's Tyranids eating planets, Eldar trolling, Orks rampaging for their own entertainment, and Chaos fucking everything up.

If you're more concerned about how somebody sees him/herself and other people's opinion on that than with avoiding extinction, you need check your priorities.

Personally, I'd have no issue with anyone who wanted getting 100% seamless sex-reassignment surgery whenever and however often they wanted, regardless of whether or not they had dysphoria but with a few caveats: insurance only covering medically-relevant cases being is the big one.

You're skirting transhumanism with that kind of proposal, though, since by the time we have perfect sex change we'll also have extensive body modification available and you know the people getting lip plates or forked tongues in the here-and-now will be getting far more outlandish things grafted onto them.

Additionally, a number of people who get the current reassignment surgery end up regretting it, just like some people who start transitioning decide to stop. It may have to do with dissatisfaction over the effectiveness of the surgery itself or just the fact that the procedure does not actually stop the root cause of the dysphoria, but either way it's basically a one-way trip and now you can't go back. There's a reason hormones and surgeries tend to be held behind the "gatekeepers" of modern medical and psychiatric care, because theyhave the potential to royally and irreparably fuck you up.

Which is why I continue to advocate more research into identifying the brain issue causing dysphoria, then finding how to target it and how to screen for it if possible.

40k Imperium of Man is supposed to be a dystopian dying culture, a shadow of its self.

We know from history when a culture is in decline is becomes more predisposed to transgenderism and other blurring of the lines of previously asserted norms. Both Greece and Rome, and the colonial west began to display androgynous forms as the ideal of beauty just before they collapsed.

youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ

So I might add in conclusion, that transgenderism would probably exist in the at least the decadent echelons of Human society and more so within the more prosperous planets.

That seems reasonable user.

They've cured it by then

Cultural conceptions of gender vary so wildly across the history and geography of just our one planet that it's totally absurd to assume that the millions of planets which make up the Imperium of Man would have a single, united response to the idea of people whose physical sex doesn't match their gender, any more than they'd have a united response to people of the same gender having sexual relations, or even a united idea of what constitutes "sex" (there have been eras in the West when oral was a criminal act, for fuck's sake).

Also, come on, seriously. "Fix" them? Don't be a shithead, OP.

Get this agendafaggotry out of here

Couldn't find a better term for it. Not being a shit head.

>low tier /pol/ bait question
Get out

Nope.

What would medieval opinion on transgenderism be?
Probably not what you would expect. They wouldn't have an opinion on a concept that doesn't exist for them. The idea would be so strange and foreign I doubt that even people who are transgendered in that universe understand their own feelings. They likely would not know what to do with themselves let alone who to talk to.

I'm sure most real trannies would like their dysphoria fixed, user. It's an unpleasant brain problem.

>In one of the newer books Comissar Yarrick is implied to be a homosexual too.
Could you elaborate.

Yes, Slaneesh

That I do indeed acknowledge. Shit understandably sucks.

Yes it's a problem because you're enabling them rather than giving them real therapy. Suicide rates for transsexuals go up after gender reassignment.

Except deviant and libertine behavior directly leads to people embracing chaos?

because treating a symptom rather than the cause does not actually fix the problem

You think Slaanesh is going to notice you because you fap do dickgirls? It's the God of Excess, not the god of doing something moderately outside the norm alone in your basement.

As far as Terra and most of the inquisition really cares it's "do you hail emperor?" And that's about the end of it

>Except deviant and libertine behavior directly leads to people embracing chaos?
Only if it's taken to the absolute limit in all regards.
People who don't know 40k think Slaanesh is about sex.
People who know 40k understand Slaanesh is excess in any possible fashion, so long as it outstrips all else, be it hedonism, gluttony, excellence at the arts, even battle (which is another reason Slaanesh and Khorne butt heads, a champion of Khorne could easily be a champion of Slaanesh for their excess in bloodshed).

What does Emperor worship actually look like on the average imperial world? Is it a church sermon? A lecture? Hymns followed by blood sacrifice to sanctify the place further?

>Suicide rates for transsexuals go up after gender reassignment.

That seems suspect.

That seems very suspect. In fact, last I checked, that was straight up wrong.

I long got sick of the contradicting info from every source I got on these matters myself, nobody has a fucking clue how to deal with this because each case is different, nobody wants to make an individualized therapy for these people and just wants the simplest lump sum solution which won't work on this

It is. It's repeated a lot, though, because someone read a paper, misinterpreted it, and now every person with an anti-trans agenda holds it up the way antivaxxers do Wakefield's garbage.

Blegg, I'm neither pool nor anti anything like this on principal of it being related to science, we cannot allow scientific matters to be bogged down by agendas of any direction

>Fix them is wrong
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness according to every reputable medical source

Mostly the same way worship happened before the Imperium showed up. The Ecclesiarchy takes a look at it, and if it's not heretical, they just go and tell the populace that they were actually worshipping the Emperor all the time.
And if you don't think so, you can have a stern talk with the fanatically religious nun, packing a flamer, or if it just so happens, a 7 feet tall superman in powerarmour with a gun that shoots miniature rockets. Your choice, really.

Human life has so little value in the 40k universe that there's no way someone's getting a fake dick and/or vag

Unless you fall to slaanesh and get corrupted, that's the only way.

Mechanicum guys basically go from male/female to walking mechanical monstrosity with no organs at all

I doubt they care about sex changes

You don't seem to understand how it works, you start doing something out of the ordinary and you will eventually want more and more and more, this is how the chaos corruption works and why it is so undetectable you don't notice it before it's too late, they don't stop at a certain point but keep going further because the chaos influence already got them.

Think of irl people who do heavy drugs and seek more and more, add in omniscent space magic-dark-influence that makes that worse by x100000 times, that's why chaos is a threat.

I doubt it.
Trannies are mentally fucked.
Devastating unnecessary surgery isn't actually going to fix the problem.

Depends on the planet. The Imperium doesn't care as long as you can hold a gun.

As long as you're willing to die for the Emperor the Imperium at large won't give a fuck. Also, I want to fuck a sister

Yeah, lesbians aren't an uncommon sight in the fluff. Inquisitorial Representative Marguerethe Wienand M32K from The Beast Arises novels is explicitly stated to have had a romantic relationship with her female Acolyte bodyguard.

Then again, she was a High Lord of Terra and an Inquisitor, so no one except another Inquisitor was going to ask/care about whether Wienand likes dick or pussy. Drakan Vangorich would know, but only because he's the Imperium's NSA/CIA guy and it was his job to know EVERYTHING about everyone in order to kill them more effectively.

My gut says that lesbians, gays and bisexuals are relatively accepted in society. Unless what they do in the bedroom starts affecting their productivity, the Commissar/Adeptus Arbites don't care one iota.

Transgender people... probably are either ignored for the most part (and they don't really bother with this first world problems crap of preferred pronouns because sex change operations/sexual reassignment surgery in 40k are most likely a lot more effective when it comes to a transperson being 'passable' as their desired gender) unless they start switching back and forth between genders in order to experience more and more pleasure, because that's something which will get Slaanesh's attention.

Only situations I can clearly think of where transpeople might get told to fuck off via bolter round is a FtM transperson trying to join the Space Marines or a MtF trying to join the Sisters of Battle.

>tfw Orks don't have to worry about this relationship/sexual orientation nonsense
Being walking space fungi does have its benefits.

>FtM transperson trying to join the Space Marines
They'd have to transition before puberty in that case, and it would mean certain death from implant rejection.

>MtF trying to join the Sisters of Battle.
Sisters are raised from birth by the Schola Progenium, so I doubt it.

Hard to say.
The only even close in the fluff wouod be slaneeshi cults, but this doesn't really mean that it's outlawed.

Most likely, as many other people have said, it would depend a lot on the planet.

That said, it would be very limited in scope. Nobles would be the only ones that have the resources and freedom to do it, so it would certainly not be very common. Either way, it would definitely be something kept secret, because it could easily attract both inquistors and the Ddark Gods attention.

I've never had the impression that the Imperium of Man gave shit about identity-politics or sexual liberation.
I think the Ecclesiarchy / Ministorum pretty much let's you fuck whoever you want, and call yourself whatever, so long as you PRAISE THE EMPRAH!
Local system / planetary political/ cultural climates surely differ, but the church itself is completely beyond those archaic concepts of sin or virtue, in my mind.
>Virtue = Service
>Sin = doubt, acceptance of xenos filth, acceptance of ideological beliefs other than the imperial creed, mutation.

There is a set of minimum requierements, but the exact way of worshipping varies from planet to planet. Some planets organize reenactements of battles with kids as the actors (and really getting killed), others may simply have a morning and night prayer with some kind of sermon once a week...
Terra doesn't care as long as the tithes are met and there is no heresy. They simply tell them to follow the Imperial Creed and fill in the blanks with whatever theyb want.

>My gut says that lesbians, gays and bisexuals are relatively accepted in society. Unless what they do in the bedroom starts affecting their productivity, the Commissar/Adeptus Arbites don't care one iota.
Accepted is far from the right term. They're ignored. If nobody finds out, then nothing happens. But if someone does find out, it's unlikely that it'll end well for you for a number of reasons, from the fact that the imperium is not an open minded or tolerant society and any form of deviancy including being gay is most definitely the first step on the road to Slannesh worship, to the fact that for the vaast majority of people, if you have time to think about sexuality, then you're waisting time, and time doesn't beong to you, but to The Emperor.

Anything like that would be limited to the very powerful in the imperium, in a relatively few number of worlds.

Are you sick of everything, and just want to watch everything burn while you laugh?

Welcome to Malal! Unfortunately your lifeforce will be forever linked to the force of Anarchy.

Except that's got nothing to do with Malal you retard.

Underhive mutant scum are (quasi) accepted on most planets so I don't see why trannies wouldn't be. Everyone in 40k is mentally ill anyway and it's a dystopian hellhole on purpose, I don't see why you would even argue about this unless you're a /pol/tard or socjus retard.

For a lot of people it does though.

The fact is, few cases of gender dysphoria are exactly the same. For many people, the surgery does help. It shouldn't be simply disregarded as a possible treatment because you (and I) find it icky.

Per a BL author, trans people are fine: a-40k-author.tumblr.com/post/149714948331/trans-people-in-40k-yn-im-working-on-lore-for-a

More zealous Inquisitors might correlate it with Slaaneshi worship but most people probably don't give a shit

Is x heresy

If you have to ask generally yes, in the world of 40k transgender would most likely be viewed as things along the lines of slannesh or of the sorts, since most tumblr "transgenders" are doing it for attention.

So more then likely yes it would be.

Not a problem at all. At that point, if you can change the body to fit the brain or just as easily change the brain to fit the body, then why not let them choose?

Suicide rates are very high for post-ops, probably because that least a few have regrets or because the tech doesn't quite make a genuine reassignment. But improved surgery would fix both of those: you'd be a fully functional member of your new sex, and able to switch back if you regret it.

In fact, I suspect some aristocrats would go back and forth as conspicuous consumption/fashion/whim dictate. Marital politics gets much easier for monarchs with eight daughters if they can turn two into the sons they need to seal a dynastic pact with another noble family.

Or if your daughter is a brilliant warrior and wants a chance to be a space marine someday. She goes a full anatomical/metabolic/genetic transition and now geneseed works.

Link to the arguments?

Basically this. It's actually a neat system for a tabletop/roleplay setting. It means that your army can come from any culture and you can play any character. Fuck, there could be a planet when gender switching is mandatory every year, but as long as they make their tithes on time and don't start warming to xenos or Chaos then the Imperium doesn't give two shits.

...

There are people who replace as much of themselves with robotics and tech as they can, there are fungus-barbarian-xeno filth, and the entire planet of Necromunda exists, and people think a few FtM and MtF people are gonna set off the heresy-radar? As long as you don't get off to it, serve the emperor, and didn't do it because "the little voices in the back of my mind told me to," odds are nobody gives a fuck because you're goddamn cannon fodder anyway.

>you'll never fuck a qt trap SoB
Damn, I didn't know I wanted this until now.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

This is likely the paper he's referencing. It states that mortality and likelihood to commit or attempt suicide is higher among post-op transsexuals than the general population. It does however make it a point to note near the end that the study does not know whether things would have been even worse without the gender reassignment surgery. The paper does however indicate that reassignment surgery (along with hormone therapy beforehand) is not sufficient treatment on its own.