There is talk of prosthetic limbs abound, but many seem quite simple in their design so can't do complex/fine motor movement. Designs from as far back as the American civil war still see widespread use.
More advanced models rely on muscle twitches from surviving living tissue, but what would need to be learned to enable humanity to create actual prosthetic limbs up to (and perhaps beyond) fine motor movement? And comprising of artificial muscles that can be linked to the mind?
Asked this of /g/, but you guys are more creative thinking so it's worth a try.
The issue has never been, "Can it be done?" because it absolutely can be done, and has before. There are all sorts of devices that use artificial muscles and artificial synapse tissues to move limbs as if they're real, and enable their users to have an extremely fine degree of control.
The issue is, "Can it be done cost-effectively?" which is an entirely different question all together.
TL;DR the answer to the last question is, "We're getting there." Research into stem cells, polymers, and biomechanical systems are advancing daily, but shit is still just too expensive to make large-scale for the average person.
Jason Watson
This. I'd give it about 15-20 years until a reasonably fine-control prosthetic would be in the price range that an insurance company might pay for it or could be reasonably afforded by someone in the middle class.
Zachary Jackson
Control is a huge issue. Reading electric stimuli through remaining flesh has a certain bandwidth limitation, and is inaccurate, and the user has to be retrained in the limb's use in an awkward way.
Other crap like plugging wires directly into the nerves instead builds up scar tissue and isn't quite figured out yet. One promising solution is plugging crap directly into the brain, like the Braingate from DARPA, which you might find amusing.
We can build really damn fine, dexterous, sexy, vibrating limbs, it's just how they are controlled and whether or not they have any sensory feedback that is the issue. Someone actually knowledgeable on this can feel free to correct me.
I think we're pretty close to making it actually feasible.
closer to 3 to 5 years for the fine motor control probably 5 to 10 for insurance...depends on the nation though
Owen Richardson
I have zero ability to contribute to the technological side of things, but would like to ask something in a similar vein.
If Prosthetic limbs become a common thing, what would the social ramifications of being augmented be? Are there any examples?
I mean, the original ones with no tech, and one ones with the fine motor control are almost entirely for people who had experienced unexpected sudden arm disassembly. But if technology increases to make them aesthetically pleasing, What would societal reaction to them be?
[Spoiler] How can I found a certain religion about it? [/spoiler]
Hudson Edwards
well, cripples would be able to contribute to society. The infirm would benefit from exoskeleton technology, meaning old, sick, paralyzed and the injured could do the same things.
>reaction to them Probably just accept it. its an arm.
>how do people react to tattoos?
John Ross
Pretty badly in some cultures and time periods In Japan it's incredibly taboo to have tattoos because of the implication of Yakuza sympathies
Julian Brooks
Tats are something that is either small and hidden, or really obvious. And people with extensive tattoos WILL be discriminated against in job interviews and almost literally anything. I mean, you can wear a shirt to cover your tattoos, so you could cover your entire arm. But there might be a stronger reaction from prosthetic rather than tattoos.
John Wright
There are prosthetic covers that are skin-toned and hard to notice at a glance.
Camden Lee
You have answered the reaction question about cyber arms
Jeremiah Gonzalez
What
Jason Richardson
>Pretty badly in some cultures and time periods >But there might be a stronger reaction from prosthetic rather than tattoos.
Jaxon Gray
Okay, but why did you feel the need to reply to tell us that we've answered a question
Elijah Ward
I feel its amusing to guide people to their own answers and then tell them they have found it themselves, while contributing the initial discussion topic myself.
its also easier because people tend to go straight to /pol/ levels of thinking. And i'm trying to prevent that from surfacing in threads
Levi Sanchez
GAS THE FLESH BAGS MACHINE WAR NOW
Caleb Powell
For the first 15 years, they will be oddities and curios: Uncle Archie lost his left arm in the 2nd Korean war, so his hand feels cold and rubbery.
After that, replacement gives way to augmentation, and things get too weird to extrapolate from there.
Juan Sanders
I didn't make the post that the post I replied to was replying to, my man. I think you might have a touch of the 'tism.
Alexander Carter
no
now that's the reaction I was wanting!
>post tech priests
Gabriel Russell
Techmother is best mother
Landon Diaz
Since this thread is on a fast track to derail, lets actually ask.
Who would join the Adeptus Mechanicus if someone managed to get it started on earth if augmentations got good as if not better than flesh?
I'm already convinced machine spirits are a thing based off the stories of my grandfather from his time in the navy, and /k/ tells me it's only gotten more pronounced.
Jose Clark
Some people will fetishize obvious prosthetics, just like any other thing in existence. And where there are extremities of positive sentiment, there will also be extremities of negative sentiment. As said fetishization becomes more normalized, it's regarded as less extreme, and thus the negative backlash to it also becomes less extreme.
So on the timeline, at the 20 year mark or so, when they're just becoming commonplace and affordable enough that people who don't need them might want them anyway, this will be most pronounced. Even those who got the prosthetics out of necessity will be discriminated against. People who got them unwillingly or due to circumstances outside their control will hate them, and as they're a part of your body - not something you can hide from or put out of your mind - there will likely be a spate of suicides related to that. Prosthophobia will be widespread, both in terms of the social phobia and a medically diagnosed phobia (fear or discomfort related to your own prosthetics, rather than low opinion of others for theirs).
New terminology may emerge: prosthetics versus augmentations, for instance, representing a distinction between those which merely replace existing functionality and those that enhance it.
Somewhere between here and normalization, extremist groups will form and remain active for an indeterminate period of time - there may be some small civil warfare over this, most likely to be similar to the current pro-and-anti-LGBTQ protests going on since it's based on a fairly similar set of rhetoric (purity vs individualism).
Around 30 years, most of that will likely have trailed off. Since luxury prosthetics are likely to follow utilitarian ones, much like clothing or jewellery they'll become class markers and most discrimination outside of remaining extremist groups will be related to that, rather than to the prosthetics themselves.
Turns out I only have one character here with non-augmenting prosthetics. Neat-o.
Xavier Brown
One other big problem is power supply.
Aaron Price
>But there might be a stronger reaction from prosthetic rather than tattoos. If you mean a stronger negative reaction i doubt it. Tattoos have negative reactions because people associate them with criminals. Prosthetics get associated with accidents and tragedy, any reaction to them is going to be sympathetic rather than negative.
Logan Stewart
Not so much the religious aspect. But im all for self improvment via augmentation, I'm not emotionally attached to my meat.
Camden Williams
>Born just in time for exploding knees >MFW
Kevin Parker
People with phobias related to their bodily functions, like blood, feces, pain and pleasure, may be the first ones to augment themselves without any crippling injury.
Jacob Hernandez
Ah you see, but the religion makes it fun, because it confuses normies.
Good point, if I see a person with a limb blown off, I either think veteran, industrial accident, or medical problem, all of which are sympathetic.
Jaxon Murphy
There is absolutely no point in augmenting your own or anyone else's body when it would be much cheaper and simpler to use the same technology to build an exosuit.
Brayden Moore
Augmentation can potentially add whole new functions. And exosuit can only enhance existing abilities.
Anthony Murphy
Cyborg waifus are best waifus
Juan Myers
>veteran, industrial accident, or medical problem, all of which are sympathetic. >brands of misfortune or ill health >sympathetic
Levi Parker
Just put laws everywhere on them. If you have an arm, you cant replace it if it is healthy.
If you have a prosthetic, it needs to be made under the abnt norms so and so, colorcoded to your job and etc.
Government/enterprises give free repair under the monthly tax/fee of 12.99
We are MUCH closer to a full man-machine interface than you realize, OP. Dobelle may be dead but his work continues. Gotta remember, Dobelle's first gen shit was made BEFORE smart phones existed.
Ayden Cruz
>Abnt HUEHUEHUE
Daniel Garcia
Just imagine Brazillian regulation on that shit. Then everyone will not use said regulation, and nobody will pay attention but the high ups. In the end, there will be people with their arm failing in the middle of work, or that zaps other people in the bus due to bad cabling.
People using stolen prosthetics that arent made to their arm and look and fuction just wrong, some crazy favela dude will discover that using some pieces he fond on a junk, a wooden board and glue he can make something amazing and orky out of it.
We just need prosthetics and super hacking to go full cyberpunk down here after all.
Carter Evans
>hard to notice
David Butler
I doubt that's how it would go down. Governments would be one of the last groups to adapt to major cultural shifts like that, because bureaucracy is slow and politics are run by old people. Look at how the law is still constantly stuggling to deal with the internet and cybercrime. More likely there would be a span of at least 10 years where the government hasn't caught up yet and the public at large determines how augments and prosthetics are seen and treated
Tyler Cruz
While it is Veeky Forums more than Veeky Forums, may I recommend Deus Ex: Human Revolution / Mankind Divided?
They go very heavily into the social and political ramifications of augmentations, as well as some of the sci-fi possibilities like remote control.
I think they did a particularly good job showing how quickly public opinion can shift, and lives can be ruined. In Human Revolution, the Augmented are wealthy early-adopters, working stiffs who mortgage their bodies to get lucrative jobs, or disabled folks who finally have a chance to live a normal life. Baseline humans often think it is weird or wrong, but the Augmented population is growing, despite the expensive anti-rejection drugs they need to function.
A few years later, after a nasty incident where the Augmented are hacked en-masse and go berzerk, they are a feared and hated under-class. Stuck in ghettos, fired from the same companies that encouraged them to get augmented in the first place, and forced to scrounge for the ever-dwindling supplies of anti-rejection meds or get all their robo-bits removed.
