Is there any setting where Orcs aren't shit...

> Fucking fail of a race just like dwarves.
> fail of a race just like dwarves
> just like dwarves
> dwarves

>What's even the point of a villain race that isn't dangerous?
Because they're backwards doesn't mean they're not dangerous. And in fact, the savage IS the most dangerous. Do you know why? We humans have our nice civilizations with our laws and our legal codes and our just(?) punishment for those who transgress the rights of others. To us, weakened by order, those who have grown fat on the labor of our forefathers, there's nothing more terrifying than this order breaking down. There's nothing more nightmarish than returning to the state of nature, where the big and strong exploit the weak for their own survival.

This is what the savage orc encompasses. It is nature. The orc does not care about your laws and he only barely cares about what can generously be called the "laws" of his tribe. He takes as he pleases. In a way orcs would be less dangerous if they were civilized, for then they'd at least impose some kind of law on you after you were conquered. The savage orcs just loot, pillage and if you're lucky they won't turn a rape into a murder.

There are the Warhammer 40k Orks.

>The only universe where Orcs are competent
The 40k galaxy is exactly how the Orks like it. They are the only faction who can call an attempt to invade the Eye of Terror a success.

> Also why they are always technologically backwards?
Ork tek looks backwards. But it's effective, unless you're talking about accuracy.

>The original Orcs made by Tolkien actually could build machines and they were ''delighted by engines, wheels and explosions''
Not sure about the first two, but the Orks do like a good explosion.

>Warcraft they are almost cavemen.
Yeah but those caveman won the first war against the humans, and seem to be on of the only races that moves the plot foreword in WoW.

>Wanting "villain races"

It's awful to see someone with such plebian tastes. Orcs are not "villains" they're just savages.

Well they can be villains but don't make it the only trait the race has. Like 5e gnolls.

>Orks
>competent

their ''best'' warrior is Ghazgkull who is known for getting rekt by a fucking comissar

at least Orcs in Fantasy managed to kill one emperor so that's some proper damage but all Orks can do is kill few guardsmen before getting shitstomped themselves

You're the kind of faggot who wants to make every villain more human right? The kind of fuck who turns liches and vampires into some Linkin Park tier shit.

Even Sauron and Morgoth had more to them than "generic evil guy," you fucking tasteless mong.

No they didn't you little homo. Don't forget to make your OC donut steel undead who wants to change his ways crawling in his skin these wounds will never heal.

Or make an Orc who wears a fedora instead of a helmet you fucking cunt.

>Also why they are always technologically backwards? The original Orcs made by Tolkien actually could build machines and they were ''delighted by engines, wheels and explosions'' but in for example Warcraft they are almost cavemen.

Tolkien believed strongly that technological and scientifical progress was not tied with moral and social progress, and in fact it often suggested that they were kind of contradictory with each other.

This is not compatible with fantasy in our society. Some shows do continue exploring this subject, but fantasy is too often based on evasion from the world and you can't go around reminding escapists that their life's are shit and they should depend less on their iphones.

>No they didn't you little homo.

Never read Tolkien, eh?

...

But it's like saying aliens in SF settings shouldn't have plasma guns and cybernetic implants.

Have you read about the War of the Beast?

No, it's fucking not. That's just an unrelated sentence you came up with for no reason. Everyone has lasers and shit in sci-fi, it's inherent to it. Advanced technology is no inherent at all in fantasy, it can exist or not.

Tolkien was a fucking hack who wrote a bunch of boring bullshit I'm glad he's dead.

>scientifical progress
That said, I've sort of confronted this from the opposite perspective: One of the major problems of muh settan is the fact that despite all of this magic and time passing, everything is stuck in the current status forever because using too much magic fuels an apocalypse/reset button that sets everyone back to the beginning of development and basically nobody has figured this out. So nothing gets better and nothing really gets worse, because the world is stuck in an eternal stalemate.

Orkz are not technologically advanced in relation to the other factions. On the contrary, they're the equivalent to cavemen.

And, like cavemen in a setting where they must fight knights, they're given a plot devices to still make them a threat. In this case the magic ability of not giving a fuck about being shit at tech because it kinda works anyways.

t. 12-year old

Meks are legitimate inventors and their machines will and do work in the hands of other races. The times of ''lol it's just a pipe but it shoots because Orks believe it's a gun xD'' are long gone.

t. nigger

everything he wrote was boring as fuck the old faggot spent more time describing trees than battle and every single scene involving Sam and Frodo was a chore

They still retain the "shitty mess" aesthethic and theme which is what is important, since canon comes and goes but themes remain. In this case, orcs are as brutish and primitive as they were in the past (in their themes).

new at baitin', eh, bud?

You're the kind of tasteless cretin who never got past watching He-Man, right? The kind of fuck that doesn't care if a story is internally consistent and driven by characters with plausible motivations so long as it fulfills his need for simplistic escapism.

No, he's just butthurt.

or he's meta-baiting... baiting so blatantly obviously, that this itself is the bait. I'm overthinking it, aren't I?

In Eberron (3-4e D&D setting), the orcs are generally good-aligned. They're really into magic and at one with nature and not prone to war.

>reeee muh tolkien

D&D borrows more from Howard than Tolkien

It's far more interesting to have villain races, but then find ways that these villain races co-operate with others without compromising the tone.

Someone get that comic.

You know the one

Tell me about Howards orcs.

no, I don't, actually. Which one?

Black and white people

This one I believe

>warcraft orcs are almost cavemen
Nice bait, they're one of the most culturally advanced orcs in fantasy.

40k Orks are terrifying. Extremely competent from a military standpoint, huge numbers, advanced technology that rivals the Imperium and only works for them. And even among the orks there are nuanced factions... all of which love explosions and dakka.

Midnight (3rd ed d&d setting by ffg) is a setting where the orcs won. They don't have complete dominion over the entire continent, but they occupy all human lands.

>villain race

See that's your problem right there. As pointed out, factions and races opposing the PCs are deliberately made unsympathetic, unrelatable, and defeatable, so the PCs can have their power fantasy. That's why murderhobos exist. If you care at all about this, then be the change you want to see, and GM games where every member of every species is a person, not a stereotype conforming to pedestrian needs and limits.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Attack_Moon

Just because most Ork clans are pretty pathetic (and notoriously hard to kill, permanantly), doesn't mean they aren't competent. Also, Ghazghkull getting the shit kicked out of him by Yarrick isn't exactly fair, since Yarrick would probably school most Marines, and potentially a few chapter masters as well... He's kinda a badass like that. The real fun will begin when the Orks smash the Tyranids in the Octarius sector, then you'll get some real, nice, battle hardened Orks that are going to show what a real Waaaagh! is.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War

Warcraft Orcs before Warcraft 3.

They have fucking shielding technology, r
Ftl and teleportation.

Only fucking four races have teleportation; Eldar, Imperium, Orks, and Necron. Even the "advanced" tau don't have that.

They don't do certain things because they're stupid they do things the way they do because they don't give a shit about dying and they have more fun this way.

The average goblin was slightly taller than a hobbit and the average orc was about the same height as a dwarf, give or take a few inches. The tallest goblins were like very short humans, the tallest orcs stood at man-height. A type of orc is mentioned called "black uruk-hai of mordor" that may have been slightly taller than men. There were also ancient orcs that towered over the tallest men, but they were rare.

When making height comparisons in Tolkien's world, it's important to remember that the average height of Western Men was a little over 6'0, more than the real-life average. Numenoreans stood around 7 or 8 on average. It's not that orcs themselves are always short, it's that they're short IN COMPARISON with Tolkien's taller Humans and Noldori Elves.

They're effective only by means of being too dumb or unwilling to stop fighting. They also tend to lose many many many more thousands of soldiers than their enemies do, but they keep it up because of how overwhelmingly numerous they are and how they reproduce via spores. Orks are basically a fungal virus.

That's because it's Yarrick. He's an old man who lost an arm to a giant Nob bodyguard then proceeded to gut said Nob and decapitate him without breaking a sweat. He's also the old man who broke out of confinement twice, killed over a dozen Mekboys with his bare hands (hand, since this is after he lost his arm) and Ghazgkhull admired him so much so that he let him go free so that he would have a worthy fight. Space Marines bow to Yarrick. Hell, the only two times Yarrick's been beaten were due to him being hyper-outnumbered by Orks on all sides, and both times, on Armageddon and when facing Ghazgkhull, he survived, and his body was found amidst a pile of dozens upon dozens of slain Orks. It's not so much that Orks are incompetent, it's that Yarrick is such a fucking badass that the Emperor himself would be impressed and the Chaos Gods piss themselves and run away screaming whenever he shows up.

There's no need to bad mouth HE-MAN that shit is dope.

Truth told, 5e. Standard MM Orc is a bilingual high-speed skirmisher with night vision that can fight melee and at ranged. Orogs are base Ocrs with extensive boosts in their damage output, whereas the Eyes of Grumsh are Orcs with Cleric(!) levels. Their chiefs are absolute beast with better-than-average-human stats across the board, massive extra damage, and a mini-legendary action in Battle Cry.

Volo's adds the Claw of Luthic (back-rank support Cleric,) Hand of Yurtrus (Debuffers,) Red Fang of Shargaas (Rogues,) Blade of Ilenval (Warlord,) and plague-bearing suicide bomber shock troops called the Nurtured Ones of Yurtrus, beings literally capable of blowing themselves up to spread infection to front lines.

And in times of great desperation, when a tribe feels like their Gods have abandoned them and thus they must abandon their gods, they truck with Baphomet to create the Tanarukks, magic-resistant half-demons capable of doing more damage when hit than when hitting.

In short, 5e Orcs aren't just not-shit, they're actively scary, literal creations of their own gods designed for maximum slaughter living and dead and shunted from birth into specific roles designed to work together to create as many deaths as possible. Your only asset is that they are as happy to die as to kill knowing that their work will continue in Acheron, where the tactics learned on earth will be honed forever in the eternal war of Nishrek.

Never, ever underestimate them. Bring superior numbers especially casters of your own. Don't engage on their terms: if you can, pick off stragglers, but the bigger their group the more chances for their specialized roles to carry the day.

Because you are not facing a primitive culture. You are facing a culture as deep, as rich, and as storied as your own. Generations, guided by the gods, have set the sledge headed for your head in motion. And there's nowhere the Orc holding it would rather be. Can you say the same?

Fuck, I love Orcs.

This is the sickest shit ever. What is this?

Bran Mak Morn is my absolute SHIT.

You and me are niggas now.

Tolkien made very clear that goblins and orcs were the same thing and that there was never any difference, he just called them one thing in the Hobbit and another in other works

> Dissing He-Man.

I don't care what you two are arguing about, but I believe you may want to practice a bit of moderation.

My assumption was that they were the same race but the orcs served under sauron directly while the goblins had their own little kingdoms and principalities. That and the orcs were a little bit beefier due to being in the direct service of a magical dark lord.

I love 5e Orcs too, but the 5e Orcs presume much when it comes to setting.

My solution is upgrading half-orcs to their own race of high orcs and running them like fantasy Klingon. Simple fix.

>Is there any setting where Orcs aren't shit?
Mystara

they're lifepaths from Burning Wheel

essentially in that game your starting skills and stats are determined by a sequence of jobs your character has held before they were a PC, some of the high-ranking orc ones have names like that

Let's have a discussion about which chapter masters Yarrick could take out, if he ever needed to.