So, if Abaddon is blessed by 4 chaos gods, does this means that he's more powerfull than primarch deamon princes?

So, if Abaddon is blessed by 4 chaos gods, does this means that he's more powerfull than primarch deamon princes?

Entirely dependant, 'blessed' isn't a binary yes-no to add to your power scaling certificate, a lowly Marked Cultist of Tzeentch is blessed by the Architect, but those blessings don't give even remotely as much power as Apotheosis by the same God.

Either way, from an influential standpoint he's likely above the Primarchs for now, but from a raw power standpoint we're mostly unsure, as ol' Abby goes from jobbing to Marines to throwing Kharn around like a ragdoll depending on the writer's mood.

Reminder that Abaddon FAILED to accomplish even ONE of his goals in 10 thousand years.

In the sense that he could beat them in a 1v1 fight? Probably not. In the sense that he could convince *all* the Legions to follow him to war, acting as a somewhat coherent military force? Absolutely. That's what makes him so valuable to Chaos. Not his raw combat prowess, but the fact that like his father before him Abaddon can rise above the petty rivalries and forge some semblance of unity from the gibbering hordes of the damned. None of the surviving Primarchs can do that, they're too enthralled to the will of one god or too personally defective in one way or another.

Take your memes somewhere else.

No

Anything saying otherwise is Abwank

...

But didn't he actually managed to defeat Horus in 1 on 1?

Yes and no. Yes, in that he is warmaster of chaos, their chosen in the material and immaterial. No in that he is still astartes, whilst the primarchs are more than astartes, even as daemon princes.

Even other daemon princes avoid direct conflict, save khornate ones, with the daemon primarchs. Sure, you can say that that is more based on the whimsy of the dark gods, and by extension the shards of their personality that make up each individual demon, but I like to think that even they know that the sons of the emperor, no matter their mental capacity or mood, can and will wreck shit if provoked.

It was a clone and clones have their own issues.

No, it was a fucking worthless shit-tier clone done by Fabius "lol so randum xD RAPE MACHINES!" Bile

It was a clone that barely remembered anything and didn't have Horus' talon. Nothing to scoff at, but not the same tier as the real deal. I don't think Abaddon could beat the daemon Primarchs by himself, but he can can do what they never could so it doesn't really matter.

Hell, I doubt Abaddon as he currently is could beat Horus himself. If by some warp fuckery they met and crossed blades, Horus would wipe the floor with him. There's a reason he was the first warmaster of chaos.

Horus is gone, his very soul obiliterated. Specifically so no Warp fuckery could ever bring him back as a daemon prince or anything else. Abaddon destroyed any hope of any resurrection when he burned his empty shell. There's nothing left. They won't be fighting.

Twas purely hypothetical. Merely a comparison between an astartes chosen by the dark gods, and a primarch chosen by the dark gods.

> There's a reason he was the first warmaster of chaos.
Yes, it's his leadership. If they wanted the strongest primarch they would've picked Angron as warmaster.

Even then, it was only through the intervention of Lorgar that Angron even got to be a daemon prince. Halfway through a battle, Lorgar realized that Angron wouldn't survive to serve the gods, cause of the bits of metal lodged in his skull. The world eaters sorcerers tried their damnedest to stop him, too.

There's a reason they don't have sorcerers anymore. After turning, Angron saw them psychically in conflict with Lorgar, and fucking slaughtered them all.

Not once did Ezekyle Abaddon spar with Horus Lupercal and win.

He did slay the clone of Horus made by Fabius shortly after the Heresy, though.

All likelyhood, no, Abaddon wouldn't be able to beat a daemon primarch alone. It's been proven time and time again that full devotion to a single patron grants more power over all than devotion to all of them equally.

I doubt he's more powerful, but he does seem to have more political weight then they do, given that he's the only one who is capable of uniting the forces of Chaos under a single banner.

No he didn't. 12th BC son (and we don't know enough about the rest to say).

I haven't read any books featuring Abaddon in his current form, so I don't have a good impression for how powerful he really is in the lore. Although, that said, the Daemon Primarchs don't seem to be all THAT powerful. There are several instances of them being defeated in battle, such as:

Mortarian being defeated by Kaldor Draigo Battle of Kornovin (after speaking Mortarian's true name, which weakened him significantly)

Angron being defeated in the First War for Armageddon by 109 Grey Knights, including the Psyker Hyperion

Magnus being defeated by Logan Grimnar during the Seige on Fenris

All of these cases cannot be considered "1 on 1" fights, however. The battles had been raging long before the Primarchs were defeated, so even though you can point to one individual as being responsible for banishing them, you could say that they were already worn down from the previous fighting.

That said, I don't think it's a stretch to put Abaddon on at least the same level of combat ability as Logan Grimnar, who was able to hold his own against a Daemon Primarch. There's no way to know for sure, but Abaddon could probably put up a good fight, and it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he could win.

I'd count the thirteenth as a success, seeing as he did manage to get a foothold on the cadian gate. Though that doesn't hold up, seeing as the BL had to retreat afterwards, thanks to the Eldar sticking their noses in everyone's business.

That's been retconned. See: Gathering Storm, Fall of Cadia.

It's not just a foothold any more.

Have you been paying attention for the last few months? Cadia has been completely destroyed by Abaddon now, and the Eye of Terror is open for the forces of Chaos to ravage the galaxy.

Fucking....What the fuck GW?
Seriously, what the fuck?

>Angron being defeated in the First War for Armageddon by 109 Grey Knights, including the Psyker Hyperion
The Space Wolves were also present in this battle and helped fight Angron, so that's more "one primarch vs an army" than a 1v1 like Abaddon vs Primarch would be.

>Magnus being defeated by Logan Grimnar during the Seige on Fenris
Logan had the Axe of Morkai, which is a weapon of Khorne minus the corrupting influence thanks to the runes and wards on it.

So really the question is if Abadab has any weapons/abilities that would give him an edge in combat over a primarch (because as demonstrates, there is a definite statline disparity there).

See pic related for a summary.

Drach'nyen pre-sword was powerful enough to at least fight the Emperor for a bit, and the Talon of Horus killed Sanguinius. I'd say they should do the trick.

>The Space Wolves were also present in this battle and helped fight Angron

That's right, but I believe Angron also had like 12 Bloodthirsters with him, too, so it was more like an army vs an army.

>Logan had the Axe of Morkai

Abaddon has access to Daemon weapons, too. We really can't look at the in-game stats for info on who would win, because the game isn't representitive of the lore. Effective powerlevels are altered for the sake of gameplay.

Magnus' shields were compromised by Logans Khornate axe, something he didn't account for. After that the grey knights bathed him in holy fire until he was forced to retreat. The grey knights beat Magnus, Logan only made it possible. If it was 1v1 Logan would have been a fine pink mist about 2 seconds later.
But I think that under the right circumstances, even the most powerful characters can be killed or stalled by characters far weaker than them, as in pretty much every fight involving greater daemons and daemon primarchs/princes

I don't know how I feel about this.

Back on topic, my being aghast aside, I still feel our little Warmaster wouldn't be able to go one on one with the Daemon Primarchs.

>Abaddon has access to Daemon weapons, too. We really can't look at the in-game stats for info on who would win, because the game isn't representitive of the lore. Effective powerlevels are altered for the sake of gameplay.
Sorry, I should have been more specific. In WoM, he makes himself immune to pretty much everything the Imperium has. The reason the Axe of Morkai worked is because it's a weapon of Khorne and Khorne hates psykers.

Ah, I see. So the Khorneate weapon was able to bypass Magnus' psychic wards and actually harm him. So that being the case, Abaddon's weapons may not be effective against a Daemon Primarch.

Clone. Not Horus himself, who got erased from existence. A clone. The comparison is null, due to it lacking the skill Horus himself had.

Space Marines have been able to defeatd Primarchs before, or at least put up a good fight. For example, Luthor was able to defeat Lion El'Johnson in single combat during the heresy.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Abaddon could defeat a Primarch.

>(because as demonstrates, there is a definite statline disparity there).

Well, Abaddon was statted for a completely different edition and power level. At the time he came out, he was beast.

I am pretty sure that if Abaddon doesn't get any noticeable stat-buffs when he's updated (which he likely will), he'll get some major army-buffing rules that make Black Legion scary on the table.

Abaddon isn't even regular primarch tier, let alone daemon prince primarch tier. Any level of primarch beats him, maybe it isn't a straight up 1 sided fight but they win

That's been retconned. Abaddon isn't the Harmless anymore.

Luthor wasn't even a space marine. Yes, Kor Phaeron and Luther both had almost beat the shit out of the actual primarchs but all of that thanks to warp fuckery. Altough Abaddon have some sort of it and actually could put up a fight against some primarchs, but deamon princes have even more of it.

>all of that thanks to shitty non-canon BLwank

Show me where in a DA or CSM codex or Horus Heresy rulebook where this, or even a situation similar to this ever happens.

What about Lorgar and Pertaurabo? They aren't bound to one god

Both stop too often to play SimCity with the worlds they conquer

Peturabo is an autistic sperglord with no charisma, who's liable to flip out at random and mutilate anyone who sets off his insanely delicate temper. No good at motivating outsiders.

Lorgar is a babbling fanatic who's been sitting his ass for 10000 years. Between his constant preaching the glory of Chaos Undivided turning off nontheists and those devoted to singular gods, he doesn't have a very broad appeal.

Abaddon is seen as more a natural rally-point, being Horus' old First Captain as well neither a total sperg nor liable to get pushy on theological matters. Plus he's been the major force pushing for more war against the Imperium for the entire time, unlike the two lazy-ass Primarchs.