MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

The embalm tokens do not have mana costs.
>One more minor change is that it doesn't have the mana cost the card has.

Well, there you go.

If I cast Echoing Decay on a Young Wolf, will it immediately be destroyed again when it returns to the battlefield?

Thank you very much.

It will not. The effect will hit the Young Wolf and all creatures named Young Wolf -that exist as Echoing Decay resolves-. Then the Undying trigger is put on the stack, and as it resolves, Young Wolf comes back. It's a new object with no memory of (or relation to) the "previous version" of itself, even if you're using the same piece of cardstock to represent it. This 'instance' of it wasn't on the field when Echoing Decay resolved, so it won't be affected anymore than if it had died to a Languish.

Oh right, I was imagining Echoing Decay applying its effect until end of turn even on new instances of the creature, but the comparison to Languish helps.

Is it even possible for a card to work like I imagined? How would Echoing Decay be worded, for example?

It's not possible within the current rules, really.

611.2c. If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won't change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn't modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren't affected when that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that don't, the set of objects each part applies to is determined independently.

Breaking that down: The -2/-2 from Decay is a continuous effect (layer 7c, specifically) generated by the resolution of a spell, and it modifies the characteristics (P/T) of some objects. Since it meets those criteria, it "locks in" the set of objects that it hits, as it resolves.

For it to persist through the turn, it would need to be a continuous effect generated by a STATIC ability (like Glorious Anthem), but having something like that persist for only a duration is weird. It'd have to create an object (like a token, or an Emblem) with that effect and then get rid of it later in the turn.

Opened 2 Modern Modern 2017 & Eldritch Moon Boxes. Most of the cards will be given away. youtu.be/HAG1FnR4ll4

If I hit a player with a Kathari bomber and then sac it in respone to its ability, do I still get two goblins?

As in, sacrifice it to something else, like a Claws of Gix?

Absolutely. The trigger says to put out the Goblins, and sac the Bomber; they're not tied together. If you can't sac the Bomber, the trigger just shrugs and continues doing its thing (in this case, it finishes resolving since that's the last instruction). It's not a cost, and the goblins aren't tied to it (That would be worded as "When ~ deals combat damage to a player, sacrifice it. If you do, create two 1/1 red Goblin creature tokens.")

Hello GA, I have an open-ended question for you.

I've heard many stories about players who were in the right, but received disproportionate penalties based on saying the wrong thing to a judge. I'm referring mostly to incidents like the infmaous Oliver Ruel sunglasses snafu. I did a little reading, and the most I can find on this category of penalties is 4.1 of the tournament rules, "player communication"

>Players must answer all questions asked of them by a judge completely and honestly, regardless of the
type of information requested. Players may request to do so away from the match.

I'm currently of the opinion that this policy is COMPLETELY ridiculous and needs revision, but I need to get more information. I would be grateful if you could point me to some rules documents that give more information on this policy.

As-written, the policy penalizes players for anything the judge believes might be dishonest, and this unfairly moves into the area of DQing players over things like personal questions "How much do you weigh?" memory issues "Did your fourth land drop on game two come into play tapped?" and matters of opinion "is blue your favorite color?"

It's technically true that a Judge could ask an asinine question like that and DQ someone for giving an answer they feel is "dishonest", but the moment that DQ got to the Investigations Committee it would probably be stricken from that player's record and the judge in question would be lambasted severely, if not flat out W2L0'd.

Your argument is basically that dickhead judges can weaponize the rules to swing their Judge status around, but that's true of basically anything. A Judge could accuse a player of cheating and DQ them over a simple mistake. A Judge could accuse a player of Bribery and DQ them when they said "Do you want to get lunch after this round?". The thing that's keeping us from doing that is that we'd get our certification revoked in a half-second if we tried that shit. And any TO worth a damn would immediately throw their HJ out if they tried that, 'overruling' that penalty.

It would seem to me any question asked needs to be pertinent to the game at hand.
Personal questions of the player can and should be fully ignored and even called out.
(Although a judge asking for someone's weight COULD become pertenant if they're busting seats at the match.
*creaaa...reeeaaaa...
CRASH!*
"What happened?!"
"I think muh chair broke."
"broke? How much you weigh?"
"I dunno... 350 pounds?"
*facepalm*)

Quick question, does protection work against global effects? E.g. pro white creature will survive a Wrath of God.

Short: Wrath of God will destroy a creature with protection from white.

Long: "Protection from 'color'" provides 4 effects:
1. Protects from being targeted by spells and abilities of the protected color
2. Prevents damage from the protected color
3. A creature cannot be blocked by another creature of the protected color
4. Prevents the permanent from being enchanted or equipped by permanents of the protected color.

Since the Wrath of God does not target or deal damage it will destroy the creature.

If a bunch of allies enter the battlefield all at once with something like CoCo or Return to the Ranks, do all of their effects go off, or do none of them? Or do they come in in any specific order?

Protection only stops Damage, Enchant/Equip/Fortify, BLocking, and Targeting. Wrath of God does none of these, so pro-white wouldn't stop it.

All of them trigger (for themselves AND each other); the triggers are put onto the stack in the order of your choosing.

how do -1/-1 counters work?
Let's say you have a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it and you give it a -1/-1 conuter as well.
Does the creature have both counters but they do nothing or do they take out eachother? (-1+1=0)

Those counters will cancel each other out

Kind of a weird rule but that's how it works

What is the correct timing to eat a spell a snapcaster is targeting with Scavenging Ooze?

After they declare the target to gain flashback?

Can Zur the Enchanter fish out a Hypnotic Siren when he swings? Can it be attached to an opponent's creature?

Also
If you cast bonfire of the damned can you also cast an instant speed ramp spell for more dakka?

In the past, they'd both exist on the creature, but effectively negating each other. When Shadowmoor dropped they introduced Persist, a "-1/-1 counters matter" mechanic, and changed things up so that the counters couldn't co-exist. If a permanent ever has both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it, they annihilate each other in a 1-to-1 ratio until only one kind of counter is left.

That'd be the ideal choice, yes. If you wait until the trigger resolves (and it's either an Instant, or it's a Sorcery and it's their turn with the stack empty) they can cast it before you can eat it.

He can, and it can't, in that order.

You can respond to Bonfire's Miracle trigger by casting some kind of ramp spell; you don't pay the XR until the trigger resolves.

judge-chan can i target etched champion with tezzeret's emblem considering he is ub?

Does Dream Halls work with the flashback mechanic?

Tezzeret is UB, but his emblem is colorless, and the emblem is the source of the trigger.

It doesn't, because Flashback is already an alternate cost, and you can't pay multiple alternate costs.

>Your argument is basically that dickhead judges can weaponize the rules to swing their Judge status around, but that's true of basically anything. A Judge could accuse a player of cheating and DQ them over a simple mistake. A Judge could accuse a player of Bribery and DQ them when they said "Do you want to get lunch after this round?". The thing that's keeping us from doing that is that we'd get our certification revoked in a half-second if we tried that shit. And any TO worth a damn would immediately throw their HJ out if they tried that, 'overruling' that penalty.

I used extremes, but the oliver ruel situation establishes a bad precedent that has hit other players. Nothing stops a dickhead judge from being a dick, but we should still be on the lookout for rules that ask players or judges to be dicks to each other. The situation isn't just theoretical either, real players are being penalized. Just last week a player was DQed after a judge overheard that his OPPONENT had propaganda in their deck at a modern event.

In any case, I'm really just looking for any other rules that are relevant to player/judge communication and trying to do some research on the subject. Maybe these incidents are aberrations. Maybe the language in the rules is encouraging abuse?

>Nothing stops a dickhead judge from being a dick
Except the literal zero reward and massive risk of doing so

I think you're looking for something to be upset about, honestly. You're conflating one incident from ten years ago, plus a personal anecdote, as being proof of an epidemic. The language does not "encourage abuse". I will concede that it theoretically ALLOWS it, but if you're assuming malice of any given theoretical Judge, they could abuse the rules no matter what they said.

If I built a legit battle of wits deck, 250 cards (nearly there actually) how quickly do I need to be able to shuffle it? Just enough so that my opponent is satisfied? Can I recruit my opponent to help me shuffle?

"Within a reasonable time frame". There's not a numerical value assigned to that, because if there was people would abuse it.

You may not recruit your opponent, and it's also not reasonable to request that the Judges assist you. You need to be able to thoroughly randomize your own library, without assistance (barring things like injury or disability, which we do our best to accommodate), in a reasonable timeframe.

Hi gA. I'm finally heading towards becoming a judge, got my first practicum on Easter Friday. So, a judge that I was talking to before I found a mentor gave me some advice on what I should study to become an l1. Can I ask your opinion on it, and is there anything else you recommend?

1. Learn the 8 steps of casting a spell (CR 601 or so)
2. Learn how to calculate power/toughness (layer 7, CR 613.3)
3. Learn how priority works in detail (CR 116)
4. Read the Magic Tournament Rules sections 2,10,Appendix B
5. Read the Judging at regular document, DO NOT read the IPG.

Go over 2HG a little bit, sometimes questions from that show up.

Learn the steps and phases, the turn-based actions in them, and how priority works in each of them.

Read every question very, very carefully, and try to figure out the answer BEFORE you look at the available options. Read each answer fully, because they are worded to trick you on purpose. If necessary, ask for some basic land when you take the test, so you can "Create" the board state in front of you. It helps a lot of people.

And on that note, bed. More thread tomorrow!

I bought a box of MM17 at some weird gamestore in a busy part of town I scarcely ever visit.
It was on sale for cash for $185 so I channeled Yahenni, and he handed me $25 in change when I gave him two benjamins.
I got two fetchlands.
Always pay in cash at stores.

Not the user who asked the question, but a sorcery that read "All creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn. At the beginning of the next end step, all creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn"

Could do it, or am I wrong here? I know the card would read kind of goofy but I think it's solid.

>Oliver Ruel sunglasses snafu

i'm also not the op, guess that stuck around from another thread

You'd have to have the card create an object with a static ability.
Like "Create an emblem with "All creatures get -1/-1". Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. ".

That'd just give -2/-2 to everything that was on the board at two separate points of the same turn. If a 1/1 entered after the first zapping but left before the second, it'd be unscathed.

I have a R/G Commander deck.Can I use cards like Naya Panorama in it even though it also mentions Plains?

Yes. All EDH cares about are mana symbols. The word "plains" is not a mana symbol.

Would some form of automated shuffling be allowed? Would that answer change if the player had an injury/disability?

Used to be explicitly forbidden if memory serves, but I don't see anything about it in the 1/17 version of the MTR I just pulled. Then again, WoTC has godawful digital organization and I'm never sure if I'm pulling the right document from the right page. There's like three WoTC pages with different MTG rules docs what the christ.

The MTR doesn't actually have provisions for differently abled individuals. That said, granting such provisions is well within the rights of the HJ and I imagine most would say "Oh, you have hooks for hands? Sure, you can use a shuffling machine.".

What's the official online repository of things like tournament rules documents?

Thanks!

Hi Judge,
Playing against Rw burn I put Chill into play. My opponents casts Tear (from Wear//Tear). I think that as long as he doesn't fuse the two halves, this is a white spell and there's no extra cost. The judge confirms that, as the cost only includes white mana, it's a white spell. Do you agree?

Then, let's consider a Thornscape Battlemage. It's green, but does it become red and/or white if it's kicked? iirc the kicker becomes part of the cost of the spell, and is paid when the spell is cast right, so it should influence the spell's color?

For a split card on the stack that's not Fuse'd, you completely disregard the half that's not been cast. When you cast Wear/Tear as just Tear, the Wear half doesn't exist until Tear finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard.

Kickers are additional costs. They, like other additional and alternate costs, don't change the color of a card. Under normal circumstances, the color of a card is determined only by it's printed mana cost. (Things like Transguild Courier and cards with Devoid make themselves exceptions, things like Painter's Servant and Moonlace make other things exceptions.)

>Then, let's consider a Thornscape Battlemage. It's green, but does it become red and/or white if it's kicked? iirc the kicker becomes part of the cost of the spell, and is paid when the spell is cast right, so it should influence the spell's color?

no. it's only green.

202.4. Any additional cost listed in an object’s rules text or imposed by an effect isn’t part of the mana cost. Such costs are paid at the same time as the spell’s other costs.
202.1. A card’s mana cost is indicated by mana symbols near the top of the card.
105.2. An object can be one or more of the five colors, or it can be no color at all. An object is the color or colors of the mana symbols in its mana cost

>The judge confirms that, as the cost only includes white mana, it's a white spell. Do you agree?

yes.multicolor card, monocolor spell.

708.3. Each split card that consists of two halves with different colored mana symbols in their mana costs is a multicolored card while it’s not a spell on the stack. While it’s a spell on the stack, it’s only the color or colors of the half or halves being cast.

Thanks!

Couple of questions.
My friend has a bad habit of letting his sunglasses hang from his collar, as such I can quite often see his hand, I usually tell him but if I were in a tournament, and didn't say anything, and he called a judge once he realised, could I be penalised for that?
And out of curiosity, how long before new releases do you get to learn the new rules? You said earlier that the CR hadn't been updated for Embalm yet, so I won't ask the question I had regarding it.

That'd give -2/-2 to everything that was on board as the spell resolved, and then again as the trigger resolves later in the turn. It would technically hit anything they play between the spell and the trigger, but it'd also kill any X/3s and X/4s that survived the first hit.

Sure can! Land types in rules text don't contribute to color identity. Which is why you can run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in literally any deck.

Also color indicators! But that's still not relevant for Panorama.

That'd pretty much be a HJ call, and considering the number of times I've seen an auto-shuffler devour a pack of regular playing cards, I'd expressly forbid it.

blogs.magicjudges.org/rules

Correct. Wear is a red spell, Tear is a white spell. Split cards, you ignore the half you aren't casting while it's on the stack. In all non-stack zones, Wear//Tear is a red and white card, but it's only a red and white SPELL if fused.

Battlemage is always a green spell unless some outside force acts upon it. Just because you're paying a red kicker doesn't mean the spell is red.

This is actually damn near exactly what happened with Olivier Ruel in 2007. His opponent had highly reflective glasses hanging from his collar, which allowed Olivier to see the opponent's hand easily. The guy eventually noticed, called a Judge, and the Judge asked Olivier if he'd been able to see the guy's hand. And he was DQed... for saying he couldn't. The only illegal thing he did there was lie to a judge.

If your opponent's goof-up is letting you see their cards, you have no rules-dictated obligation to tell them. You can't be craning your neck and going to great lengths to see their cards, but you can just keep your mouth shut and silently enjoy the free info. If a Judge asks about it, you need to be honest with them, but you shouldn't be penalized.

Didn't have enough room for the second part, sorry!

Pretty much the same as you guys, honestly. We don't get an "advance copy" of new mechanics or CR or anything; the only exception is when the project I'm on (Rules Tip blog) gets a card to spoil. We usually get ones with interesting rules stuff to them, and we get a quick-and-dirty rundown of how that card/mechanic actually work for our post.

But yeah, beyond that, I'm working with the same spoilers and announcements as everyone else.

what's the going rate for bribing a judge these days?

About 600 Quatloos.

damn, back in scars it was 300

Slow morning!

>Steal a creature from another player with a Control Magic type effect
>Swing against an opponent with the stolen creature
>Original player scoops.
Do I still do damage or does the creature get physically removed from the game?

By the rules, the moment Opponent A left the game, so did everything they own, including their creature. This is mostly just a logistics thing- it would really suck if you had to stick around until everyone else was done just because someone had stolen ONE of your cards.

Practically speaking, this is commonly called "The Douche Scoop", and while it is legal, in Bird Culture it is considered 'a dick move'.