It's probably been discussed to death...

>playing against aeldari
>eldar but with more WAAC thrown on top

Honestly, the best way to stop Celestine is to drown her in too many bodies to fight her way out of. I charged her with a squad of guardsmen to soak up the overwatch, then a mob of 50 conscripts and a priest to lock her down. She'll eventually win, but it'll take so long that she can't do anything of substance for the rest of the game.

Or bring Belasarius Cawl. He wrecks her shit in melee.

He can get his stomps but nothing else. He cheated you man.

Soulburst moves do not repeat initiative steps. That's what you need to remember. Ynnari rules are fucking cheesy but they have limits. Always keep your GS2 book handy, or refuse to play anyone who runs Ynnari without their GS2 book on hand. They WILL try to cheat your ass.

Also, my go-to-fuck-you is 660 pts.
3 Primaris level 2
1 CCS with Kurov's Aquilla
3 Lascannon HWT squads

Make that one CCS is a Cadian Battlegroup Command so you get 3 orders. Give them all twin-link and order ignore cover.

Fuck whatever you decide to kill, because it will go down. Anything T7 or less will die. T4 or less will get ID. T8 has a 16.67% to not be wounded.

She has H&R with I7 and will disengage at the end of your turn only to cut that leman russ of yours in a half while regaining her ablative wounds.

She has H&R but she can't disengage if she can't move. You have to drown her in bodies and wrap around her.

Rules question.

Divine Guardians say you resolve unsaved wounds on Celestine vs her cheerleaders first.

Unsaved wounds that would cause instant death will kill them outright, correct? She with her EW doesn't confer that to her tag team. Say, from Lascannons or Plasma?

Correct. A plasma gun which got two wounds on Celestine would just kill both of her Geminae

It was the stomps that killed the second tank and the chimera, he killed the tank commander and his pal on his iniative 7 (I think it is?) and the with the soulburst charged the other tank and stomped during iniative 1.

I knew that he would bring a Ynnari list with a Wraithknight so I tried to counter that a bit.

Had 2 Vendettas with the bullshit from Death from the skies so they come in on a 2+ (of course I rolled a 1).
I also had 2 "Inquisitorial Representative" formations with 5 chimeras with 3 acolytes each (2 plasma per chimera), every chimera had storm bolters and Psybolt Ammo.

Lastly I was running a "Emperor´s Fist Armoured Company" with 2 Vanquishers (commander and pal), 2 Punishers and a Eradicator.

At the end of turn 6 I had both vendettas still alive (one with 1 Hp left) and a inquisitor with 2 acolytes locked in combat against some warp spiders.

She's only got AP 3 and even with her blade she's only Str 5

She spends a long time flailing against anything with T6+ or a 2+ Save.

She's just not a very killy HQ. She's a distraction carnifex character.

>I still hate the fucker who thought two Flamer template pistols were balanced.

Oh god no, hand flamers! Str 3 AP 6 weapons!

>unpainted gems

What is this in reference to? It's showing an obvious rule. Anything hit by a template is affected.

Are they AP6? He said they were AP5.

Okay now I'm fucking mad. I had a feeling it was 3/6 4/5 5/4 for Flamer weapons from hand to heavy.

So he was bullshitting me there too. Fucking hell. I knew drowning her in lascannon fire was the best way to kill her.

This guy sounds like an experienced infantry IG commander.

Infantry IG are extremely powerful if played right. He's correct. Drown her in bodies so she never makes her points back. Take the rest of the enemy's army apart piecemeal at your leisure while the unit he intended to break into your backfield and take down your firepower does nothing in a sea of worthless conscripts.

>opponent is straight up lying to you about her abilities
>you're letting it slide because you don't understand a lot of the basics of the game
>still win by 1VP

report to Cadia for some R&R, son

you've earned it

The corebook say on page 165 on the rule for Hit and Run that they move 3d6 in a choosen direction and ignore the modelse they are locked in combat with.
So I do think she can get out of combat anyway, unless you have a second squad bubble wrap the melee.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he means, bubble wrap the combat with unengaged units spread at max coherency and she's not getting anywhere with an average 10" move.

As a SOB player: Yes, they are AP 6.

Seraphim basically NEED two hand flamers as a lot of the hits will be discarded by toughness or armour.

Hand Flamers are in two armies. See If you can lock her up and force her to fight and NOT run on her turn, as in, make a tasty trap with some easy character kills or bait with your warlord, you can take your orders and spread a large volume of bodies over most of your field, if only to make her retreat.

She doesn't want you to be able to shoot her so she will only ever disengage on your turns. This is how you beat her.

I have experienced them a total ONE time.

Fuck, my post got mixed up.

I've seen Hand Flamers used against me ONCE. And that was this game. As I said I didn't have any rulebook to check it on hand. It was the first time ever I've forgotten to bring it.

But after fighting him in this challenge board match, I've made a policy to ask my opponent what books they use in their force. Not to tailor, but to make sure I have a copy of both player's books on game day so as to not run into this shit again.

If that had been the case last night I wouldn't have been raging half the game. He brought two units up and glazed me off a quarter of the table in one turn.

I won with a lucky MoO orbital shot hitting an objective I needed and blasting his scouts into vapor with a direct hit double 1 scatter. He tried to claim cover.

It was the last turn that I learned Castellans doesn't get ObSec. I was fucking furious. Had I remembered that little detail I would have advanced up the board. I was stuck with useless objectives for my tactical cards until I managed to Zerg up and snag them.

She is to be fair, guilliman is likewise pretty cheap for 350, considering he is unkillable, can buff and move everyone within 12 significantly, is a CC beast, his gun is decent but nothing SUPER crazy.

Gorillaman isn't unkillable by comparison. He dies if he fails his roll. Likewise he's slow as fuck and won't do too much long term. You need to bubblewrap him. Or just keep him up with Biomancy Psykers.

She is far more durable with her regenerating ablative wounds. And then she auto-revives.

I'm tempted to start running a Conclave and Voldus just to go for Vortex and say "fuck your death star"

>T6
>W6
>IWND
>2+/3++
>If he dies he revives on a 4+

It takes something like 200 S4 shots HITTING him to kill him

No I heard it can kill more than what's under the blast, stupid but that's how the rule is worded

She would just fly away, the rules for hit n run ignore models in base contact

What is argued is that if there is no open space for her to land outside of combat she cant escape.
Or I think that is was people are saying.

There is a difference between blast and template, the blast can scatter and kill things beyond its range as well as kill things that are out of sight.
As for the template weapons, on page 173 it say´s "Wounds inflicted by template weapons are allocated following the normal rules."
The normal rules for shooting are on page 35, their we can read the following.

"If none of the firing models are in range of a particular model in the target unit, then Wounds cannot be allocated to it."

As well as the following text.

"If there are no models in the target unit that are in range, all remaining wounds in the pool are lost."

From this I conclude that template weapons can´t kill models that are beyond their range.
Am I wrong?

Yea and and he can't do shit outside of melee, you got 2 or 3 turns of shooting to kill the rest of the army.

i just dont play 40k. it works pretty well op

Exactly. If you have models deep enough for her to not be able to take her 3d6 movement without ending 1" outside of another enemy model, she's stuck.

Hilariously, if you can catch her with plague zombies, she's literally stuck there the whole game because of your respawning blob of dudes.

But spacing out your models enough to tarpit her endlessly is easy. And if she sweeps, she's going to be dead center in a horde.

>she's ridiculously cheap for what she does.

What she does is not die. Ignore her. She cannot kill more than one squad a turn.

If only. I'd be tickled pink to be able to ignore her but I'll have to do other things in another game if/when I play him again.

Namely slap his shit for cheating.

That sounds great, but expensive and very fragile. Do you use an aegis wall to give them more survivability?

Either aegis or just a buffer of bodies.

Besides if my opponent doesn't have blasts there isn't much he can do to 3 squads when there's 150 models pushing him off the table.

The point is she's just one model, and not one capable of wiping a unit on her own (at least quickly). So quit wasting half your armie's firepower on this big shiny fire magnet and focus on killing things that actually stay dead once you kill them.

Templates work like this:
>Place template so that you generate max number of hits
>roll to wound and armor saves
>To Wound is treated like all other weapons, so closest models are the ones that are harmed, even if not in template range.
>continue to next template
>repeat
The BRB picture had confused a lot of people. Only Barrages harm what's under the blast template.

I used turn 1 to blast 3 rhinos open and kill 3 sister squads with lasguns and Autocannons. From that point on she was the only real target.

Yeah but the rules state if there are no models in range, the wounds go away.

What should have happened was Celestine got her Flamer, then the squad should have had theirs. He did them all at once.

It was blatant cheating.

>Hand Flamers are in two armies
SoB and Blood Angels, right? I can't think of anyone else who has them. It thought Inquisitors did but they only get Inferno Pistols.

Correct.

The other thing that pissed me off was he doesn't have hand flamer seraphim. All bolt pistols. Nothing is clearly marked.

It so happened that I didn't kill Flamer models when I blasted her squad turn 1 with 2 MoO shots.

>wins the game
>complains that he didn't win more easily

You're pathetic.

I won by a single point, barely. I don't have issues losing but when I get cheated is the problem.

Most of the game I couldn't get the objectives that I drew and I was down to my last desperate chance and I managed to roll 6 for d3 points.

GSC have them too. I run MSU squads with hand flamers and live for those moments when I get a free round of shooting on the cult ambush table.

I've yet to see any single unit survive against my 10 dunecrawlers. I've killed a warhound in 3 turns, rowboat and hawk-girl don't stand a guardsmans chance in a gaunt horde.

Hand flamers are st3 ap6

The template range means anyone within 8" of the user not just the models hit by the flamer template itself.

Celestine is tougher than Guilliman to kill but she can't put out the same amount of damage as he does. 2+ armour save will stop Celestine and you basically just need to get some terminators into her to kill her.

>I used turn 1 to kill over 50% of the dudes army
and this is whats wrong with 40k

given that wording I would agree then. Didn't know blast was different from template, I guess template refers to just flamers?

It's not the units, it's the luck.

>I was in range to use AT weapons against tanks and got Explodes!
>40 something lasguns and 6 plasma guns killed 15 models between them
>this is what's wrong with 40k
>literally my whole army shooting his
>meanwhile his bitch brigade templates mine down from 160 to 20 models in just two turns

As I posted above, I have 10 dunecrawlers, in one game I lost 6 in two shooting phases and the rest got raped by the fuckers broad side firing line in the 3rd.

This is why I love Wyverns.

Broadside, Riptide, fire warriors, doesn't matter what's being hit, wyverns will make their points back so fucking fast just from sheer volume of wounds against gunlines.

turn 1 should just have simultaneous shooting, bam 40k is fixed.

I remember playing with my Tau against a guard army. He had three manticores and all of my army was behind line of sight blocking but not in cover because the cover was beyond my deployment zone. First turn each of the manticores fired 3 rockets and totalled my army. I lost all three 12 man fire warrior squads and 2 units of three crisis.

Explain further

She had her Flamer bitch brigade literally sweeping me off of the table. I couldn't do anything after I popped her transports so I just turned my guns on Celestine.

And you don't play an army regularly and conveniently forget AP values. It's bad enough he was cheating Celestine's wounds.

As for what I'd do differently I'd not fuck up my list and take bane wolf instead of a hellhound.

And maybe a Pask Punisher or Exterminator and a Plasma Russ.

You would hate my 4 flame template BA tac squads

How is she a problem if you killed her and won the game?

No because if I was going up against blud angles I'd be much more spread out.

It fixes 40keks only from ranged vs ranged. Does not help melee pretty much.

Have you tried not playing Warhammer?

Pretty much this, nigger you won. What do you want? the ability to win more extra harder then ever before? if you only just win then whatever you were fighting is obvuously broken and over powered.

>i won but i didnt tabled the enemy
>imbalanced

But user, there is no Cadia anymore...

>wasting 8 meltaguns and 18 lascannin shots to kill a 200pts squad

You must have had better targets to shoot on. Seems like you fell for a distraction carni.

3 or 4 rhinos and 2 exorcists on the table with... 30 sisters infantry in total? And 10 seraphim in 2 squads.

one squad got blasted by my melta vets to 2 models and they charged an Autocannon team. They soaked the heavy guns then died to lasguns.

Just bring 60 MULTI MELTAS, it's actually really balanced compared to a Flyrant.

Sixty multimeltas
>Desolated