>30k TACTICA & TIPS What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed)
Are WS the only legion that BL has actually made better?
Gavin Roberts
Chris Wraight tends to have a way of doing it - he makes even Space Wolves better (Howl of the Hearthworld).
Sebastian Myers
Finished building my Coronus Grav Carriers. Even by FW quality there's quite a few mold lines and such and a few spots I still have to fill/sand.
Deathwatch for scale; these are fucking big.
Nathaniel Cox
>Sweeping Fire what the fuck does this rules do? i read it, and it just 'i can fire all my weapons' but they only have one weapon am i a big dumb dumb
Brayden Turner
SWEET STUFF CANDY FOR EVERYONE
Logan Walker
That explains the ridiculous price tag.
I was wondering why they cost the same as a gw baneblade in dollarydoos.
Blake Smith
Are Custodes viable as a standalone army? I like the idea of a really elite, small-model count force and I love their lore. Plus if and when Forge World gives us Big E, he'd make a great centerpiece model.
Alexander Richardson
They work fanatically by themselves, and that's even ignoring all the Sister's units.
They're hard hitting and act like even more elite Grey Knights. They can deep strike, take transports, or even just walk with plenty of cover from some tanks.
Super worthwhile and a squad of 3 spearmen can easily take a squad of 15 Legionaires.
Cooper King
Great to hear. The low model count's great for my purposes too, really want to make each one stand out with bitz, base work, and conversions. Custodian Guard seem like a good medium for that, given they're the Emperor's backup singers.
Blake Johnson
Does anyone know some good stuff for making moulds for recasts? Some user recommended Oyumaru yesterday when I asked about jump packs but the reviews go both ways. Since I'm getting at least one Moritat I might as well use a jump pack to make 20-40 of my own.
Isaiah Howard
They're exactly that. When you can potentially have just 20 footsloggers at 2k points it gives you lots of cool opportunities.
Angel Rogers
But Howl of the Hearthworld is written by ADB tho.
David Nelson
What bitz/conversions can you even add to Custodes? They're already blinged out.
Alexander Cox
Oyumaru softens when heated and resins heat up when hardening. Smooth Cast produces easy to use resin and silicon products. I dislike the brittle nature of their 300 range resins however so if anyone can recommend something more closer to the heavier and slightly flexible resin of FW I'd be happy to try it out.
Leo Barnes
When you can't bring allies due to RoW and sort, is Praevian a not-bad choice?
Parker Bennett
>IW and IF bury their love under a deep cover of hate Stalwart like the wall Intrincate like the trenches Our love goes to ground
Adam Harris
help with my rules query?
Aiden Barnes
They're not bad, but fucking legionnaires stop stealing our robbuts reeeeeeeee
Nathaniel Collins
my late heresy Death Guard. I picture these guys changing to all green after they get ambushed by Nurgle in the warp and Typhon sells their souls. I wanted some of the 30k aspects, with the beginnings of the Plague Marine looks you see on the classic models, and will soon see in April or May.
Similar to the almost Black Legion guy in book 7, or the White and red World Eater in book 6.
Owen Richardson
Depending on your legion they can be fucking amazing, just ask the Raven Guard.
Jacob Stewart
>Have ammo links >Can shoot up to 12 shots tops >No bolt pistol version MORE THAN ENOUGH TO KILL ANYTHING THAT MOVES
David Adams
The line in gray has a dot at the end of it.
Mason Nguyen
Too bad I'm meager SoH :(
Dylan Morales
Made an IF list from earlier; sadly I can't find any Rites of War that fit what I want?
HQ: Command Squad of 5 w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 1 Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, and 2 Chainfists 230pt
Elites: Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ Marksmen, Veteran Sergeant w/ a Powerfist, and 2 Missile Launchers w/ Suspensor Webs 225pt
Elites: Contemptor Dreadnought Talon of 1 w/ a Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon and Extra Armor 195pt
Troops: Legion Tactical Squad of 20 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 240pt
Troops: Legion Tactical Squad of 20 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Powersword and Plasma Pistol 250pt
Troops: Legion Breacher Siege Squad of 10 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Thunder Hammer and Breaching Charge, and 2 Meltaguns 260pt
Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt
Heavy Support: Legion Vindicator w/ Extra Armor 125pt
Heavy Support: Deredeo Dreadnought w/ a Lascannon Battery and Aiolos Missile Launcher 270pt
2000 points
Juan Baker
It does nothing for the Cuckstodes jetbikers. Appearently Bligh gave them the rule for futureproofing. It's pretty much like the miser-something : nobody knows exactly what it is suppose to do.
Mason Collins
Well. Er. You could throw a grenade in addition to shooting the gun, I guess?
Xavier Martin
What's up with the metal flaps between their legs? It looks like it could hook on the inner sides of their legs, and like it would definitely obstruct them if they tried to stand up straight.
Henry Adams
>LEGION MORITATS >Lone killers, scouts and assassins Only one of those is true.
Grayson Fisher
>is Praevian a not-bad choice? Tank Hunter is pretty good on Castellax
Relax, your big mortar robots justify paying the taxes involved to get you as allies. Wish MC had proper skitarii troops though desu. And 40k cross-compatibility.
Luke Fisher
Lone?
Even that's not true, because they're basically Destroyer Primes, ie: worthless + 1.
Dominic Evans
Well most of these are going to spend their time being left behind on the shelf, all alone. And all they'll have to kill is some time.
Gabriel Cruz
World Eaters, imo. They didn't even make sense in the old fluff, but ADB made them sound like they could actually function as a legion in Betrayer.
Chris Wraight also made chaosified Emperor's Children more understandable.
Maybe the Thousand Sons? I didn't know much about them before.
Joshua Lopez
Yes, they're OP so everybody's doing it and you might as well join the party.
Asher Johnson
I FEEL THE CALL TO THE IRON ONCE AGAIN BROTHERS
Jaxson Thomas
How awkward is that skirt going to be when it gets hooked behind their kneepads? What if they want to close their legs?
Tbh after all this time I think FW shouldn't have bothered with them.
David Bailey
>Marines >Closing their legs
Matthew Rodriguez
Mostly poses, neat bases. Some of the Grey Knight-esque besague shields. Cloaks, censors. I have an interesting idea for a shield-captain using the Knight-Venator wings from Age of Sigmar.
Matthew Smith
Not all of us are Emperor's Children. Some of us (*cough* the sons of Dorn *cough*) have our dignity.
David Stewart
Get a load of this imbecile.
Zachary Scott
Too thin. It needs a belly.
Grayson Flores
I am to loyal to take this shit from a wall-humper.
Chase Diaz
> modified MK IV helmets to better imitate puckered lips
Lincoln Foster
What exactly is going on in this pic?
Andrew Robinson
>he doesn't know a dick snout when he sees one
Daniel Phillips
Is Medusa, Sicaran (Venator) or Lightning a must-buy above certain points level?
Carter Price
Girlyman says that the Emperor failed his sons just as much as they failed him
Anyways, EC have some of the best designed HH duderinos and are blinged out like fuck.
Phoenix Terminators and Palatine Blades look amazing as does their squad uphrade set. The phoenician pattern helmets are one of the few distinctively unique ones together with the DG spiked helmets.
The SoH one looks to wierd in comparison.
Carter Jenkins
>Medusa I don't own one and did fine even in 5-6k point games >Sicaran Venator A venator is nice to have if you know you're going to face a lot of superheavy vehicles, but don't want to field one of your own >Lightning Great on paper, but if it doesn't turn up before turn 4 it's just a huge waste of points. Also Saboteur > Lightning :^)
Camden Edwards
Achaean is the most distinctive armour. Shame it doesn't survive into 40k but zhao-akkad does get purged.
Charles Peterson
Its a diorama of old Visions of Heresy art which is shown in the background. Some loyalist EC crashed a SoH rhino with no survivors and pose with the enemie's captured banner for a remembrancer.
Jacob Thomas
Maybe by not telling and warning them about Chaos, then going from crusading alongside his sons and fighting with them every step of the way to silent and not answering phonecalls from one moment to the next.
Benjamin Allen
He didn't adequately prepare them and was struck down.
Jacob Johnson
Basically the emperor didn't trust them and they didn't trust him. Also the Emperor didn't see them as sons yet still treated them like it and used his position to exploit them. If he was just their captain or Emperor they would've accepted his half-truths and his abandonment.
Ryder Gonzalez
God what am I doing. I bought 10 Saggitarium Guard and am going to give them all Melta Bombs.
That's 690 points why am I doing this.
Ethan Jones
Yeah, Achean looks really nice. But to me the continuity between the old vision art and the minis as well as the lack of similarity to the standard MKIV helmet makes the Phonecian pattern my favourite.
Do you guys also have skme visions art saved?
Also Zhao Akkad still exists, its just even shittier according to the book. At least the first milennia after the heresy due to the infighting and war ravages as well as brain drain.
Leo Lopez
>Also the Emperor didn't see them as sons
That's only in MoM. There are a lot of things that make a whole lot more sense when the Emperor does care about the Primarchs ... including the fact that he cares extremely much about every single custodes which are less related t him and required a whole lot less time and resources to produce. The Emperor should at least care about the primarchs because of how much he invested in making them.
>I still think that particular part of MoM is just ADB's trauma getting the better of him.
Ethan Turner
Because you love thrm and thats ok. I just hope the Misericordia is at least an ap3 weapon soon.
Taking Valdor and having them deepstrike to kill some tonks seems at least somewhat effevtive.
> Bolter-stodes look so cool.
Carter Ward
I don't understand why FW hasn't released an FAQ at least for Inferno already. They are probably being bombarded with questions about weird or missing rules right now, and we still have no real answers.
John Cruz
I feel like me running Valdor is the best thing to happen to them. Deepstrike them and blast the shit out of stuff while keeping one side of them out of LOS from other units.
I'm already running two Caladius Grav Tanks, so now I have lots of heavy firepower covered.
Jace Carter
What do you guys commonly use for AV14+ then?
Oh, also, isn't Saboteur trick requires a relic or something?
Nicholas Sanchez
Oh fuck, definetly.....does Valdor allow them to deepstrike as well?
Personally, I fear for transportless deepstrikers...so I thought about a Tribune inflitrating 3 6 man squads in their pimp mobiles, but I fear their weapons are to weak against tough armour.
Do you have enough choppy with that amount of shooty stuff in your list? Who accompanies Valdor?
Cooper Cooper
What's you guys' table-holders? You know, to avoid auto-lose.
Grayson Thompson
Honestly in a big game I want to see 10 of them drop down and blast a Primarch.
It probably wont kill them, but BS 5 S5 AP2 shots hurt a fuck ton.
That or have them drop behind a squad of Vindicators for much needed hilarity. I witness 10 proxies of them do this the other day and pop all 3 in one go. The IW player was absololutely furious and threw so much shit at them; only killing 2. The next turn they killed a Knight.
Sebastian Campbell
Saboteur-relic trick doesn't work anyway. You have to declare the use of the relic at the start of the turn, but the saboteur isn't on the table at the start of the turn so you can't.
Brandon Thompson
In games of 3k I run 15-20 Spearmean and 5-10 Sword/Shields.
My Caladius Tanks sit in the back with a squad holding down...something, or an Achillus Dread sitting pretty behind cover.
It's always worth it to have that squad or Dread sit back with the tanks behind some cover. If you don't have any, just disperse as much as you can and you'll live.
Elijah Nelson
Have you had much luck running fist/shild guard? they seem very good, but sacrfice that sweet sweet I5
Aaron Baker
Forgot to mention, Valdor rides in his DS with a Coronus tank filled with 5 other base Spearmen Custodes. If I feel like being an ass I throw in Hetaeron with a few Paragon Blades/Solerite Gauntlets and Shields. The tank Tribune drops in as well with another squad, also sometimes in a Coronus. That or he superspeeds across the board with a squad in the beginning of the game and helps Valdor drop while scaring the enemy.
Josiah Clark
>sadly I can't find any Rites of War that fit what I want? This is sadly pretty common for IF. The other in-fluff footslogging legions get pretty good general purpose Rites of War that match up with what players generally build for the sake of the army's fluff and rules, like The Reaping, Hammer of Olympia, Head of the Gorgon, and Logos Lectora, but the IF's has two heavily specialised rites of war, one for the overcosted warders and breachers, the other a piecemeal teleport thing that cripples your early deployment. A good general purpose IF Rite of War would make HS squads non-comp troops, give relentless and stubborn in deployment zone, and some kind of fortificiation/cover bonus too.
As for your list, I don't see any rite of war that fits it "as is". I think the list is somewhat unfocused and insufficiently versatile, can't decide if it's foostlogging or not. I would drop the terminators (take an iron halo praetor). The Contemptor and the Vindicator would suggest an aggro/fast build, but the tac squads don't. So I would either say go for Pride of the Legion with three veteran tactical rhinos, or with no RoW and two breachers + 1 veteran. Or you could go infantry-light with the Armoured Spearhead generic RoW, have two breachers in land raiders, and throw in another vindicator or a Sicaran.
Excellent diorama. I especially like the old style of MkIV anteater head and the CSM legs and arms. I plan to use some on my murophiles.
Caleb Fisher
Only theory crafting currently, but I have my paragon-spear, cyber familiar Tribune in a regular troop sword and board squad with shrikes and melta bombs, a solarite fist and vexilla in a transport. 2 6 man guard squads with bombs in transports as well.
Seriously, custodian troops are SO strong, I do not feel the need to buy haetaeron (or however you write it) guys or other even more elite dudes.
Troops are strong enough and can secure objectives.
Ian Green
God I wish moritats werent shit, these models are so good
Brandon Lewis
My Sentinels have a Solerite Gauntlet on the Vexilla and my Het have 2 in them as well to offset Paragon Blades. I feel every Sentinel Squad needs at least one gauntlet.
I mostly agree with this and do just about the same. Hetaeron are great CC monsters but become point sinks harder than most.
Now that I'll have a stupid amount of Saggitarum, and despite the fact that their rules aren't that great, I'll use them to tear new assholes into chunky enemy units or vehicles before someone else charges in. I imagine they synergize well with a Galatus or Achillus about to charge in.
Sebastian Nelson
If you wanted to go footslogging, there's a list idea I've been playing around in my head. Similar to your list, but aping some Mecanicum traits. >Drop the terminators (unless you DS them), the vets, and the rhino breachers >Give the Deredeo a Pavise >Take apothecaries for your blobs >take a praevian with tank hunter darkfire castellax I've been thinking about this for a 3000 point build though, and I don't have the models so I've not played it, but mathematically and thematically it might work, unless the enemy goes all-out with plasma and/or vehicles. The "core" footslogging horde might not work without ~600 points of vehicular/artillery support though, or deep-striking terminators.
Kayden Gonzalez
Gnarly. Thats a lot of golden dudes, but havent you been blasted apart by pie-plates of doom, glaives and other shenanigans at that level?
Tank tribune, you do not mean the grossly incandescent lord of cheese tribune...do you?
Yeah, I wish I was better with modelling stuff...I still feel uncomfortable with resin and even more so green stuff.
Austin Collins
I'm building off the Calth set, so I really want to use Cataphractii. Trying to stick with the siege/fortifcation theme with the armor, but not really sure what to do instead. Maybe drop the Vindicator for something? I like the slowly encroaching gunline idea and tried to gear the list toward it.
Everyone firing Bolt weapons at B5 was too good to pass up so I took plenty of bodies because I love Fists, but I'm getting conflicting opinions left and right.
Not sure where to go.
Connor Morgan
Whoever charges them sets himself up for a glorious counter charge..not to forget that they are not pushovers themselves either.
Andrew Wilson
>I'll use them to tear new assholes into chunky enemy units or vehicles before someone else charges in. I imagine they synergize well with a Galatus or Achillus about to charge in. why dont you just use them as guards with destructor spears? they seem much better, cheapter to boot
Dominic Flores
Pieplates like Vindicators worry me, so they die first if I can help it. I've lost 4 to a lucky Vindicator round before despite my 3" coherency, so it's a real eye opener. Making sure big pie plates die is a must.
Yeah, I ran it a few times and for friendlier games drop the Cyber Familiar or Shield; but if I'm seriously outnumbered or going to be bogged down he is worth every penny; watching him cut through a Terminator Command Squad and Abbadon by himself in a game was amazing.
Blake Turner
It's a cool concept, but currently they're "Destroyer Prime", so failing at fulfilling the fluff of a whole other unit. Give them infiltrate, Sniper, outflank, and an FOTL that removes the cap and gives them a reroll to hit for one turn. And give them and Destroyers better bolt pistol ammunition.
Joseph Baker
This is a very tempting option and I really like the idea. I may give this a shot in a few days during my next game; however I really like the models and am willing to suffer a bit with their current rules to better figure them out.
So far they seem like whittlers, anti-tar pits, and command killers, and not much else. Softening up vehicles falls under whittlers, but not as much as I'd hope.
Asher Perez
>however I really like the models oh they are /GORGEOUS/ which is why i dont think anyone blaims you for buying them, i just think they will end up on the shelf, even if you really like them, unless you find a diffrent set of rules for them
Dylan Ross
Is the any other viable way to run SoH other than mass-Vets Orbital Assault?
Christopher Lewis
Of course there are other ways, you just picked the cheesiest one to compare to.
I just wished vets werent that chewp, I really brgin to dislike mass bolter sniper spam.
Ryan Bell
>but I'm getting conflicting opinions left and right. That applies to all 20-man footblobs except inductii. Thing is, if an enemy is equipped to take them down, they die fairly easy. Their strength lies in being a distraction unit that's cheap enough to lose, but numerous enough to take punishment and whittle the enemy down, and deny the enemy field control through their sheer numbers, taking up twice the space of a ten-man squad and presenting twice as many attacks. On the attack, against enemies tougher than they are, they're disadvantaged, but in defensive positions, with cover saves, difficult terrain, and an apothecary's 5+ FNP, they can be frustrating.
Slowly encroaching gunline can work, but the terminators don't really gel with that, and both vindicators and contemptors are more like a quickly encroaching gunline, better for POTL+rhinos than footblobs. I would definitely recommend apothecaries if you go for footblobs, no doubt about it, and consider taking vehicles more than specialist infantry to complement them.
Mass-vets Armoured Spearhead? Tactical footblobs? It's unironically a buffed option for the SoH relative to other legions because of the close-range shooting bonus and the melee thing.
Charles Green
Yeah, I really like Reavers but there's no reason to use them now.
Landon Wright
Too 40k for me. Well painted though
Colton Campbell
I can't decide if my list should be 2000 or 2500 points. What's more common?
I mean I can cut somethings like my boxnought. But I love those.
Charles Russell
Dreads or speeders with graviton guns, meltabombs, chainfists, or just getting in the side with lascannons on mobile platforms.
Saboteur + relic trick doesn't work. And against anything that isn't a superheavy an immobilized resut is usually also good enough, which makes it a 1/3 chance to fuck up a vehicle (1/2 with Dynat)
Joseph Allen
What is more common in your meta? Some people regularly play 2500 - 3500 point games while others limit theirs to 1750.
Henry Baker
>not having so much shit you can play anywhere from 500-10,000
Jaxson Richardson
>Not relentlessly buying shit untill you can field an entire legion
Do you even warhammer bruh ?
Evan Carter
>not just buying BaC OR BoP and playing the well designed board game
Angel Gutierrez
Decided to replace weak floppy resin barrels with strong reliable brass ones. Also staggered the length because why not.
Alexander Walker
What the fuck have you done resin is better material than everything else always you fucking poorfag REEEEEEEEEEE
>t.Resin_elitists
Jace Miller
I like to have a end goal. I guess I will aim for 2500 and then have some lower point variants.
As much as I don't like that design I think this is bad ass.
Lincoln Mitchell
I think it would look better if the top barrels were the longer ones.
Jonathan Powell
Well, if your opponents have MORE points, they'll almost certainly be able to play at whichever you're more comfortable with.
Not bad. It seems an elegant solution. Not personally a fan of the staggered barrels, but it definitely individuates the model. Let me guess... World Eater?
The missile launcher looks sexy too, though personally I think the pavise fits my gameplay better.
Parker Edwards
it's DG you retard.
Carter Rodriguez
>you retard. Why so rude, user?
I didn't even look at the background.
Landon Williams
Not that guy but if you didn't look at the background what even made you think they were World Eaters?