Pathfinder General /pfg/

The only PF related thing I've bought for real besides dice is path of war expanded, to show support

>What would you say are the key differences between the Avowed and the Kineticist?
In 1pp, the kineticist is [s]really bad[/s] overall, a weaker class than the avowed is. Gonna be upfront about that. We weren't balancing around the kineticist; our goal is somewhere near the 6-casters and similar classes.

Overall, the kineticist is much more /focused/ than the avowed—Tav pointed out that it doesn't run like the warlock, despite superficial similarities, and this is very true with the avowed as well. There's a couple important differences that cause this playstyle change.

>Burn
Burn is the biggest difference; the kineticist isn't truly an all-day class (though the optimal playstyle is to pick up the minimum amount of burn to turn on your Overflow bonuses, then never take burn again unless it's an emergency), and burn is a sharp limiting factor. This changes how a lot of their out of combat utility functions; most of the time, their utility stuff is "costs 0 burn, or costs 1 burn to do a greater effect," as opposed to the avowed (and the warlock it was based on), which just... has an ability, and it does a thing. Not quite variable. Most of the time, this is a plus for the avowed, but with the 3pp kineticists , kineticist has unique tricks of its own.

>Blasts
Where the avowed goes for creating breadth of combat playstyle choices out of the box (with the shapes), the kineticist has to pick and choose its blasts at the expense of utility. Personally, I really hate this in the 1pp stuff, because it means you're forced to choose between "able to vaguely contribute in combat" and "able to uniquely contribute out of combat," which just generally feels bad to me, from a player and design standpoint. The 3pp kineticists (Jolly's legendary kineticists, and, though a bit disengenuous, my own kineticists for DSP) take steps to help counter this, giving you stronger things out of the box and opening up a bit more access to /fun/ stuff, so I recommend it.

(1/2)

I wanted her to look somewhat happy, since I kinda imagined her as a genki type.

(2/2)

>Damage and numbers
If there's something that the kineticist probably has over the avowed (or will, in the end, once we figure out how to deal with the mess that is Overcharge Modulation) is damage. Elemental Overflow is actually a really sizeable buff to physical stats, and composite blasts hit /hard/. Even in 1pp, by the later levels, a kineticist with a kinetic blade in one hand (composite blast) and a Conductive off-hand weapon will have some brutal full attacks. The kineticist also has some strong mobility at later levels that the avowed can't match, thanks to Ride the Blast + extending talents. But that overall comes at a cost.

>Focus
The kineticist is, in the end, way more focused in build than an avowed will be, most of the time. The avowed has some stuff that /enforces/ breadth, a bit, while the kineticist is really most about "pick your thing and do it." The 1pp kineticist isn't really good at that, but I recommend checking out Legendary Kineticists or the PsiAug Occult/Divergent Paths kineticists. I've personally played a few of these and quite enjoyed them.

How's this?

Or... This!

But she isn't an elf ;_;

Anyone have a summary for the first session?

B-But I thought you said you wanted elf ears...

That wasn't me, I was the Djeeta-poster.

>because it means you're forced to choose between "able to vaguely contribute in combat" and "able to uniquely contribute out of combat," which just generally feels bad to me, from a player and design standpoint

Well golly gee Forrest, maybe you shouldn't be putting combat clauses in the same resource pool as non-combat clauses then.

cat girl

more like scat girl

Oh.

Thanks, definitely something to consider. I am familiar with LK, KoP, PsiAug and Divergent Paths. I pretty much always allow them, and give the materials to my players to look into. Overcharge Modulation strikes me as something that really shouldn't have been there in the first place- Let the Kineticist have its blast damage and extreme mobility over the Avowed, I feel, and I'll be happy. Though you have got me interested in TWFing with a kinetic blade and conductive sword- that was in a build idea I was considering

Maybe a few hundred, personally? I buy hardcopies of my favorite APs and an occasional splatbook that interests me, along with the Core Rulebook. A lot of my books, however, have been presents from friends over the years.

What 3p material is the Visceral Kineticist from?

Take Cavalier. You get the order benefit, which is good and there are lots of em!

Also, while the other art was nice, this is classier!

haHA

Ideally I think every clause should have an in combat or out of combat use, besides stuff like the skill clauses.

However, I think the Aspirant form modifications needing to compete with clauses makes this a much bigger problem for that archetype.

Kitty is NOT shitty!

With 5 clauses per grade, you should be able to afford to invest both in combat and non-combat clauses.

SHOULD be able to, but we also don't have enough non-combat clauses. Not going to pretend that's not a design problem, but once we DO sort that out you should easily have enough clauses to contribute both in and out of combat.

I still appreciate the help though!

VMC cavalier? What'd be an appropriate order?

I kinda liked the art user found for me, it has that arabian feel to it a bit.

You know what, as a houserule- you could totally say "you can't take more than 1/2 your Avowed Level in 'Combat Clauses'" or something. I'm not saying add that in- but give an Avowed the option of focusing on their combat niche

Legendary Kineticists... Two, I believe?

A white girl in a weeb class who's an araboo?

Aside from the core rulebook and such the only actual thing I bought was The Slumbering Tsar Saga.

But it's a weeb class using lances! I'm fucking garbage and I know it.

>Blonde white girl obsessed with Arabia

ULFEN
YES

user, you're not garbage...

Araboo is a good idea.

Dragon or Flame are solid orders. Read them and take your pick. You'll only get a few features from it so you don't need to like the whole package.

I mean... with that kind of picture some kind of polearm using dervish dancer bard would fit better me thinks.

To elaborate... There's a reason I used the terms "vaguely contribute in combat" and "uniquely contribute out of combat" for the forced choice I was illustrating.

With the avowed, it's not a /forced/ choice. You will generally have enough clauses to pick up what you want (and can use feats to get more, if that's not enough, on top of chameleon clauses being useful for utility if you need /even more).

With the kineticist, you get one wild talent per two levels, and they're also massively limited because of their prerequisites and level requirements. "I have to pick X wild talent at Y level, because at the next one I have something I want that requires it."

In my opinion, the kineticist's issue is that they don't get ENOUGH talents. In comparison, the avowed /can/ choose to get all combat options (which overlap because of action costs) or all noncombat options (and be carried in combat by their shapes), or a mix, and they'll function regardless. The kineticist can't do that.

IMO, between shapes, I honestly wonder why you have just SO MANY combat clauses. Like, seriously. Chances are by the time you get to any of the really good clauses you'll have two fully charged shapes ready. You're not gonna be starved for things to do if you're smart.

I'm looking for a class or archetype that has does things at random. I'm new on the scene and hearing stories of wild mages gets my pants wet. Anything like this in legit Pathfinder?

Wild Magic is totally a thing in Pathfinder, though it's variant rules and will have to be talked about with your DM to see if it fits within their campaign.

Which class has access to it?

She still has high perform dance for mithral current though.

I'm worried a bit about AC with flame, so I think dragon might be a bit more safe.

AC doesn't mater

a lot on miniatures. still waiting on bones 3 to arrive.

Because Warlock had so many.
That's not '3.5e was designed perfectly and we're imitating it', that's "we ported it directly and there was a lot more combat stuff available TO port and now we're running low on ideas because Pathfinder doesn't have interesting out of combat spells that are worth spending 1/20th of all your class resources on without becoming obscenely overpowered"

I've honestly considered giving Kineticists a bone and setting the rate at which they gain wild talents and infusions to be at 1 every 1.25 levels, rather than 1 every two. I feel that would be a pretty significant buff that would put the Kineticist on par with the Avowed and free up build options >.>

Especially in addition to all the 3pp love that gets showered on Kineticists, it could potentially work out!

Kineticist gets all this love but the Medium is left in the dust and that activates my almonds.

Technically any of the spellcasters, Wild Magic is what happens when a caster fails to safely cast a spell or you're in a region where magic is inherently unstable.

Yeah, I can see that working. Maybe uh... let them use the wizard level progression instead of sorcerer, for their prereqs, as well.

Getting wild talents at odd levels, but unlocking wild talent prereqs at even levels, is suffering.

It also would eat up my swifts which I think I want for counters, boosts and gambits.

Realistically, all you need to fix the kineticist and slam it up from tier 4 or 5 (depending on element choice) is more talents and running on stamina burn rather than HP burn. That's how I see it, at least.

It truly is. I LOVE Kineticists, and there's some NEAT stuff you can do with Burn and the variant rules based off of it, along with all the fun stuff like Roil Dancer and Gambler and Avant Guard and all of Jolly's stuff for it. I want Avowed to be good but I don't want it to completely and utterly overshadow the Kineticist. My design philosophy is to start weak and then buff as needed anyhow, but that's just me

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This. Handle burn, and handle the awfulness of their limited talents, and the kineticist becomes a rather fun class.

Dragon's the team player order anyway

Fair enough. I'm not nearly as familiar with the system as you folks probably are. Never touched 3.5e either, aside from seeing things that I REALLY WISH WERE ACTUALLY PORTED OVER So many fucking cool feats that never made it. Int-based monks? Sign me the fuck up.

Have you tried looking through magic items instead of spells? Maybe there's effects there that would be less... Troublesome to turn into clauses?

Ease of access for her husbandu?

I've spent about $200 dollars.

Because her art is cute? Don't bully the user out of this!

The avowed will overshadow the 1pp-only kineticist, and that's just a depressing fact of life, because of its issues. I don't think that it'll overshadow 3pp-in kineticists though... or it shouldn't, in our design goals. /Those/ kineticists have some unique strengths and utility (avant guard aether element with massive telekinetic lifting is some fun stuff, fyi). We're still tweaking things, though, to find the right balance for the avowed.

Because nopan is for the best of girls.

Stamina burn I've considered. Making it a "Kinetic Stamina" pool that allows you to pay costs (but isn't reduced by infusion specialization) is a workable idea, and attaching to it some of the utility wild talent abilities that are GREAT temporarily, but cost too much burn to use every combat. It'd have to be something like... 1/2 Kineticist Level + Constitution modifier.

I want a good mental-stat kineticist q.q

Kineticist is fucking BORING, even with 3pp.

Because if you don't wear any pantsu, dirty boys can't get panty shots!

It just makes sense.

Curse of Strahd(D&D5e) converted to Pathfinder.

Yea/Nay?

Why not base the stamina pool off their BAB? Then you can attach it to the standard stamina rules that were introduced in Unchained.

It's probably too late to apply for LoBaF, isn't it?

>there were nopan cafes in japan from 1980-1985
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
IT'S NOT FAIR!

Yay?

I just want to play a dueling Paladin with bonuses to one-handing a sword.

Aww shoot. So basically the one not in the pdf troves?

...

YES user

3 hours and we have at least 2 people finishing their characters right now in this thread. If you got something you should do it.

Not helping matters is that we dealt with some of the weaker non-combat 3.5e invocations by folding them into other ones - for example, the Water Walking one and the swim speed/water breathing one were at the same level, so... we merged them rather than forcing you to pick in what specific circumstances you'd like to be good at dealing with water.

I love me some Ravenloft. DO IT, BITCH.

There's always next time.

You still have a few hours.

>Ease of access for her husbando?

Depending on the pantsu being worn, it's not exactly tough to push the fabric to the side to get access.

You should go for it if that's your art. 10/10 would go to war for this maiden

Potentially. It's rather late at night and again, needs to be tinkered with, but it might work. Maybe say they get extra stamina but the stamina from "Kinetic Stamina" can be spent on infusions OR feat stuff, while the rest of the pool can only be used on feat stuff.

It kind of strikes me that the Kineticist is more martially-focused than the Avowed.

...it is in the troves? It was there last I checked

She seems to wear more at the beach.

Aqua actually makes her pantsu invisible so perverts can't peek at them.

I'm actually going to PM the artist first. I'd feel rude doing it without asking. If I don't get permission in time then I'll just save it in the folder.

You guys really need to make the avowed less dogshit at skills and noncombat that isn't covered by their clauses.

I'd like to see some FREE purely non-combat clauses at some odd levels.

Do we have last call on complete apps for Legacy?

This only applies in 1pp to melee however.

If you want good damage you'll want 3pp access and you do have to optimize the fuck out in order to just keep up with bows and the such. CAN be done, but you need a really solid grasp on the class and multiple books to pull it off.

I'm actually debating whether to use that archetype for my Shardmakers app.

I'm playing a character with a childlike wonder in a different game also, who has the Unlearned drawback and 0 ranks in any knowledge, though she's also highly observant of social cues, rather wise, and neutral evil in alignment.

if you mean the element that's from Kineticists of Porphyra 2.

Good element, that one.

Well, you don't actually need art to submit your character. So just post the art later.
We're going down to the wire! This is it!

You might wanna specify that technically you already do untyped damage and the main output factor is your shapes, modulations are just downgrading to elements in exchange for special effects.

Although that's nominally, once the numbers match up so as to no longer be entirely dependent (and in some cases still too low) on overcharging.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure that metal strap is some kind of uncomfortable underwear.

Looks like the autistic cardgames memewaifu was wrapped-up last minute.

Ah! You're exactly right. Thank you user-kun!

I'm counting 3 WIP characters floating around this thread. I'm sure there're more who've just kept quiet and finished apps a week ago to post at the last hour, feels like every game has one of those.

Last call on complete apps isn't until deadline is up basically.

FUCKING GOOD!

Can I ask why you feel Aspirants needing to spend clause slots on form modifications is a problem? It felt the easiest way to ensure parity with other Avowed.