MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

So, the steps of casting a spell. We previously used a mnemonic, which still MOSTLY works: All Crazy Teens Have Tried Magic Pills.

>All
Announce. This is where you start- you announce that you're casting the spell, and move it onto the stack from whatever not-stack zone it WAS in. This is usually the hand, but can also be other zones (via Flashback, Future Sight, etc).

>Crazy
Choose. This is where you make choices- what modes (for a modal spell), intent to splice, intent to pay alternative (Flashback) or additional (Kicker) costs, value of variable (if it's an X spell), and how Hybrid and/or Phyrexian mana symbols will be paid.

>Teens
Target. This is where you pick an appropriate target for each target the spell requires. Easy.

>Have
How-Divide. If the spell has the player divide or distribute things (like damage via Arc Volley, or counters via Blessings of Nature), this is where it's announced how that'll be divided. Note that everything has to get at least one of whatever's being handed out- you can't cast Blessings of Nature with 50 targets, because there's only 4 counters to distribute.

This is where the mnemonic fails a bit, because an extra step was added recently: This is where the game checks to see if the proposed spell can be cast, and if not, we back up to immediately before the spellcasting started.

>Tried
Total- total up all of the costs of the spell. This is where our Reduction/Increase/Trinisphere thing applies, in that order.

>Magic
Make- Make mana. This is where the game gives you permission to activate mana abilities during the process of casting a spell. This step is ALSO why Lion's Eye Diamond has that timing restriction on it- to specifically prevent you from activating it during the process of casting a spell from your hand.

>Pills
Pay. Pay all costs in any order.

>A failure to read a card, mostly.

Hows that even possible?

Gloss over a card and mentally insert a word that isn't there, or skip over a word that is. "RTFC" is a common saying for a reason.

I do that all the time when we play EDH with my friends. I stopped playing for several years, so they lend me a deck, I've never heard of those cards and I don't want to slow down the play. So I cast spells without really reading the cards, forget additional costs, get confused between 'target player', 'each player', 'each opponent'... I'm not sure this helps actually.

I've never done this in a tournament though.

It happens. You'd be surprised how many judge calls can be answered by reading a card out out loud.

I'm new to magic, and want some advice on shuffling.

Cards are expensive so what kind of method do you recommend to prevent bending?

I use mash shuffles. You separate the deck into two roughly equal halves, one in each hand, and push the left half of one pile into the right half of the other. Push them together and repeat several times. If you're able, working in a riffle or two isn't bad.

Oh, also- for practice, I'd recommend you buy a cheap pack of Ultra Pros and sleeve up a bunch of basic lands, and just keep that sleeved pile of lands near your computer. When you're not doing anything with your hands (like while watching something), grab the pile and just idly shuffle to put in 'practice' time.

Can you have Super Secret Tech in your deckbox without getting a deck list error?

A card is considered part of your sideboard if it's kept with your deck and sideboard and could feasibly be played in your deck. Super Secret Tech is not legal in any format, so it could not feasibly be played in your deck.

Thanks for the advice. I'm grateful for anything to help me be a better player.

Hey gA, if I'm running Gaddock Teeg and throw something that increases/decreases the CMC of a card, I assume the original text on gaddock would superseded any additional effects because it's a state based effect, right?

Can replacement effects generate mana? (I recognize that there aren't any which currently do, but am asking based purely on how the rules for mana abilities are worded)

CMC of a given card cannot be altered by another card (X spells have variable CMC on the stack and it is a copiable characteristic so clones might have a new CMC but those are, to my knowledge, the only ways to change the CMC of a card).

How bullshit is the following.
>Playing with friend
>4-5 best of threes in
>Friend casts creature
>I counter
>Friend says that he did not pass priority
>Take counter back
>Friend casts Lbolt to stack
>Still counter the creature
>During the previous games priority was not mentioned once

It is a little thing and I am not newbie with priority but after many games of straight shortcutting and only bringing priority up when he can gain little bit of knowledge advantage smells like bullshit and he has a habit of doing this.

And no I was not too eager to counter thing.

It's a bit of bullshit. He does retain priority after he casts his creature, but if you counter and he goes "woah hold up I didn't pass prio" because you snap-countered, he can do that. If he does anything new then you can choose if you still want to counter anything (you can choose to counter the new thing, or nothing at all)

That said if you gave him plenty of time before countering and it seemed like he was just trying to bait and see if you had one that's a lot more bullshit.

I really don't understand questions like this. Did you play in complete silence? You have a mouth, use it.
>done?
>you done?
>is it my turn?

Let's say, for some reason, player A controls a land owned by each of the other players. WhenA loses the game do the other players get their lands back or are they removed from the game with the player?

A friend of mine last time we were playing EDH claimed that making a Caged Sun into a land and tapping it for mana made an unresolvable loop and drew the game immediately.

Can you spell out exactly why this is the case for me? If a land adding mana to your mana pool is always an activated ability, shouldn't Caged Sun + tapping a land for mana ALWAYS result in an unresolvable loop? I don't get how making the Caged Sun itself a land somehow changes things.

Caged Sun adds one mana to your mana pool when a land adds mana to your mana pool, not the land.
Now if Caged Sun becomes a land ...

Happy to help!

Nothing increases or decreases CMC. The CMC of any object is the sum total of the mana symbols in the top right. Whether you're paying 1BB, WUBRG, 1 mana and 4 life, or 0 to cast a Dismember, it has a CMC of 3. CMC is not "What you pay".

Theoretically, a replacement effect could replace an event with "instead, mana is made" (and in fact, Mana Reflection does that by replacing "make N mana" with "Make 2N mana"), but the source of the mana would be whatever the source of the replaced event is. IE, if there was a replacement effect of "If you would gain life, instead add that much white mana to your mana pool", the source of the mana would be whatever spell or effect is gaining life.

Per the MTR, a player is assumed to pass priority when they add an object to the stack unless they EXPLICITLY retain it.

Depends on why he controls them. If A took control of them via something like Herald of Leshrac, the control-changing effect ends when Player A leaves, so everyone gets their stuff back. If it was stolen with no controller (like a Bribery type effect), there's no control-change effect to end, so the cards are exiled.

Kinda sorta. Making Caged Sun a land means it'll trigger ITSELF, since "a land's ability adds one or more mana of the chosen color to your mana pool", because it's a land.

It will loop forever, but only the first trigger is a mana ability. The rest use the stack and can be responded to.

601.2i says "effects that modify the characteristics of the spell as it’s cast are applied, then the spell becomes cast.". What are some examples of effects that fall under that category? Do any exist? I would expect that it's referring to replacement effects, like Clone, but I can't think of any that affect spells on the stack.

None that immediately come to mind, honestly.

Would this new guy from amonkhet see himself enter and gain you a life when you embalm him?

Merfolkfag from a thread or two ago. Had another one just to make sure I'm not being a retard. Merrow and aether vial on the field. Tap vial to play rando ass merfolk. I can untap aether vial off that cast correct?

off the top of my head, a Doom Blade with Swirl the Mists on the field?

Nope. It has to be in play for it to see etb triggers. That's why Rally effects specifically state "when (this creature) or another ally etb"

Merrow (Reejerey?) cares about casting a merfolk, and Aether Vial doesn't cast anything, so no dice.

Yes. It doesn't say "Another" like the Soul Sisters do, which is the only thing stopping them from triggering themselves.

You cannot, because you did not cast anything. You placed a card directly onto the battlefield from your hand. The merfolk in question was never announced and moved to the stack as a spell.

Nah, that can't be it. Targets are declared waaaay before 601.2i does anything, so if the chosen colour is blue, you still couldn't target a black creature, but you could target a blue creature, only to have your spell fizzle

No, they just do that for clarity. See the new "cycle or discard" and .

What makes the wording on Armadillo Cloak different from Lifelink?

Armadillo Cloak is a triggered ability that gains you life as it resolves. Lifelink USED to be a trigger, but now it's a static ability that just changes the result of damage. The differences are twofold, mostly:

1) Multiple Armadillo Cloaks will stack, as each trigger fires and resolves separately. Slap 4 of them onto a Bear Cub and you'll be gaining 40 life in increments of 10. Lifelink does NOT stack- multiple instances are redundant.

2) Because one is a trigger and one is instant, one can keep you alive. If you block a 10/10 trampler with a 4/4 lifelinker while you're at 6 life, you would live because you'd simultaneously take 6 and gain 4. If that 4/4 had an Armadillo Cloak type effect, you'd take 6, trigger the pseudo-lifelink, and then die before it even hits the stack.

I'm wondering about Ante cards. I know this may sound ridiculous but theoretically if you put a bunch of Ante cards in your Vintage/Legacy deck at a tournament wouldn't you technically be allowed to play with less than 60 cards? "Remove this card if you're not playing for ante"

Considering Ante cards are legal in exactly zero sanctioned formats, you WOULD remove them from your deck.

Because you got a Game Loss for Deck/Decklist Problem.

And then you would replace them with basic lands of your choice.

Alright alright, you don't have to get all sassy about it

He's a judge, he's kinda required to get sassy about ante cards. After all that's the biggest thing keeping magic from being illegal in most states.

How does that keep it from being illegal? If anything you'd think it would make make it more akin to gambling, no?

which one of these is right?

Do you expect having +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters in the same standard is going to cause problems? Also is this the first time we've had both counters in the same standard since the +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters get rid of each other rule has been introduced?

I like the punch out counter cards.

quick question with something happened today.
i placed pic related on the battlefield to destroy a Creature player B controlled. But player C had Sanguine Bond+ soul attendant in play and used it to kill player B. so did i still kill player B's creature and get life?

In a commander league I was playing pic related and played its second ability, an idiot disallowed it. I asked the local judge if it was legal and he said yes, because the ability has a cost.

Since I'm pretty that I got fucked over by these assholes, because the judge is friend of my then opponent, I just want to be sure, is the second ability considered a mana ability? I want to be sure.

You did not. As soon as a player leaves the game, all their stuff goes with them. So your trigger no longer had a target, and fizzled.

Both of Nykthos's abilities are absolutely mana abilities. A mana ability is an ability that fits this criteria:
1. Must not target
2. Is not a loyalty ability of a planeswalker
3. Could put mana into a players mana pool
Which Nykthos ticks all three boxes.

Also, judges make mistakes. Maybe he's not an asshole.

Thank you boss, I was pretty sure on this one but I wanted to ask another judge. I'll remember these points on my next game.

well what would trigger first gearhulks effect or
Sanguine Bond?

since you are the AP, yours trigger first.

Depends. You can stack your triggers anyway you want.

cool what does AP stand for?

active player. your trigger will enter the stack first and resolves last.

cool thank you

you like getting bitchslapped, eh?

Hey.

Which color do you think looks the best/ most promising in Amonkhet. So far I think white is pretty sweet, while red like its god is fucking dog shit.

I'm sorry, did he Interrupt his own spell?

that's not how that fucking works

>reading comprehension

Having the cards in-deck _is_ akin to gambling, so it's not format legal. Having ante cards not be format-legal (and thus not gambling) means M:tG is not subject to restrictions like gambling is in said areas.

fucking leaf

Note that while your gearhulk TRIGGERS first that also means the opponent's soul sisters + sanguine bond combo RESOLVES first. Since the stack is first in, last out.

In short, no life for you.

>its god is fucking dog shit
>fucking dog
>hazoret is a dog god
i see what you did there

>what is retaining priority
opponent fucked up by not saying so but it is possible

Question: if I use a tutor effect, for instance Yisan the Wanderer Bard to find a creature, can I decide not to find any, even if I have some creatures with the right CCM in my library?

Same question for Demonic Tutor: do I *have to* take a card from my library upon resolution? My library not being empty obviously.

And if my library was empty, would I lose the game if I try to tutor something?
(I have the feeling the answers would be yes, yes and no, respectively, but I'm not sure, I'd like more details)

Would Glowrider effect the summoning of a god, assuming the required devotion hasn't been reached?

no, theros gods are always creatures when they are not on the battlefield.

1. yes you can, because it's a hidden zone
2. yes you have to. despite library being a hidden zone, there are cards there and the spell only specify that you find a card.
3. no, you won't. you only lose from trying to draw from an empty library. the spell must specify 'draw' (ex. your opponent cast Opportunity targeting you when your library is empty)

I use Fog Patch to "block" creatures. One of the blocked creatures tramples: what happens?

if you cast think twice, snapcaster it, cast it again and then flash it back, how many times did you think?

what is a cartouche????????

So the attempt is to put a -1/-1 counter on a creature, killing it, and get an Insect, which you then kill with Blowfly Infestation to get another one, blah blah repeat?

From what I can brain, it does work, but only if you have a couple of 1/1s already. Blowfly needs a target as soon as it goes on the stack, so you can't target the 1/1 made by Scarab (because you put the counter on a 1/1, trigger Scarab, SBAs kill it, trigger Blowfly, you need a target, but Scarab hasn't made a bug yet). If you already have some 1/1s, you can target one of them, then have Scarab make a bug, then Blowfly kills your target, which starts the cycle again (targeting the bug you just made), repeat.

It might cause some issues- they've been avoiding having them as major themes alongside each other since Shadowmoor for a reason.

I'm very much not a fan of the punch-out counter cards.

If they killed Player B in response to your trigger, then your trigger has no target as it goes to resolve. The trigger is countered by the rules of the game and none of its effects happen.

A mana ability is any activated ability which does not target, is not a loyalty ability, and could add mana to a mana pool as it resolves. "Does not cost mana to activate" is not one of those criteria; Nykthos has two mana abilities.

White looks pretty strong, which is odd for Bolas' Space Egypt (presented by Hetap)

If you're searching a hidden zone for a card of a stated quality, you can "fail to find" even if every single card in that zone qualifies. If you're just searching for "a card" like with Demonic Tutor, you CANNOT fail to find; you have to find a card.

If you tutor with an empty library, nothing happens. You only lose when you attempt to DRAW (draw, specifically, it has to be that verb) from an empty library.

The Theros gods are always creatures in not-battlefield zones. The battlefield is the only place they sometimes are not.

An oval around a specific set of hieroglyphics, usually the name of a noble or royal.

In Magic, though, it is apparently a new subtype of Enchantment.

once i saw that card, my hype meter shot up 1000% im so excited to see what a cartouche is....i hope it's something cool and not only like one other card.

Well we've seen one so far (an Aura that costs W, gives +1/+1 and First Strike, and creates a 1/1 white token when it enters the battlefield) at Common, so I'd assume at the very least we'll have a cycle of common ones, and then probably several more.

i've just seen it, i hope they have a win con from them, like the gates and maze's end....

>implying there won't just be 5 cartouches and 5 enchantments that care about them.

P A R A S I T I C

I think I would kill myself.

you take full hit to the face from tramplers.

>blowfly scarab
My thinking is that Scarab triggers before Blowfly, because a counter is put on a card, Scarab triggers, then SBAs are checked, it dies, then Blowfly triggers. So Blowfly always resolves before Scarab. Or am I fucking up SBAs and both go on the stack at the same time?

Scarab triggers when the counter is put on something, but the trigger can't go onto the stack until after SBAs are checked. SBAs are checked and enacted, the 1/1 with a -1/-1 counter on it dies, and Blowfly triggers. SBAs are checked again to make sure nothing has changed, and now you have two triggers that want to go onto the stack at the same time, both of which are yours, so you decide the order in which they do so.

I Embalm pic related, and then play another copy of pic related from my hand. Does Legend Rule trigger?

No, because the Legend Rule is a state-based action, not a trigger. But yes, it does HAPPEN. The Embalmed token is an exact copy of the original Temmet, with the exception that it's a token, is white instead of white/blue, has Zombie tacked onto the types, and has no mana cost. It's still Legendary, and still named Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun, so the Legend Rule sees you have two legendary permanents with the exact same name and makes you bin one.

>You'd want to respond to the casting of Griffin, since he wouldn't have a Griffin to exile in response.

Ok sounds good, so I got that right then. Just wanted to confirm since I was told that I couldn't respond at all lel

Appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions!

Caged Sun's triggered ability is still a mana ability, though.

The FIRST one is, yes. The rest aren't, because a triggered ability is only a mana ability if it triggers off of an ACTIVATED mana ability (and doesn't target and could add mana to a mana pool as it resolves). The first one triggered from an activated mana ability, so it's a mana ability. The rest are triggering from triggers, so they aren't mana abilities.

FWIW the Entombed tokens DO have a CMC and mana cost, as well as the rules text of Entomb (relevant for cards like Abrupt Decay). They're just not printed on the tokens.

Well, they have a CMC, but it's 0.

The tokens have a mana cost of "NULL". An embalm-token of Temmet does not have a mana cost of UW and a CMC of 2, it has a mana cost of "does not exist" and a CMC of 0. Embalm explicitly does not copy mana cost.

605.1b: A triggered ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn't have a target, it triggers from the resolution of an mana ability (see rule 106.11a), and it could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves.

So triggered mana abilities can't trigger more mana abilities.

So the Caged Sun/Life and Limb/etc combo WON'T draw a game by endlessly looping mana abilities.

Is that new?

>With no mana cost
ASS.
Dammit Wizards, this is how Pack Rat should work. Now the difference is gonna mess me up for sure.

I could have sworn at one point that Caged Sun, Conspiracy, Karn Silver Golem (or March of the Machines), and Life and Limb was a game-drawing loop of mana abilities.

No, it still loops, because Caged Sun only cares that "a land's ability adds one or more mana", not that a MANA ability did so. It'll keep looping by triggering itself over and over, and if nobody can interrupt that loop somehow the game will end in a draw like any other infinite unbounded loop, but it's possible to respond to because after the first trigger, all the rest use the stack.

And it's not new, but it's a point of contention. Some L2s and L3s say that either an ability is ALWAYS a mana ability, or NEVER, so all of the Caged Sun triggers are mana abilities, don't use the stack, game instantly over because nobody can respond to the infinite loop. Some, like me, say that if it doesn't meet the criteria then it isn't a mana ability and CAN be responded to. We've never had an [O] answer on it (that I know of).

I think it's largely because they didn't want to print tokens with mana costs, worrying that it would confuse someone.

It does draw the game (assuming nobody can break it) either way. There was debate on whether or not it can be responded to, that may be what you're remembering.

>I'm very much not a fan of the punch-out counter cards.
why though
seems a fine stopgap to me when the emblam arent on hand

Because I've spent over a decade teaching the players around me to not use cards from other game zones to represent tokens (usually "the spell that made the token, or some other card from the graveyard, face-down with dice on it"), and now WOTC is providing the means for players to use a card that's TECHNICALLY in exile to represent a token on the battlefield.

I also worry that it's going to get people into the habit of using the Embalm creature to represent the token even without the punch-card handy, leading to confusion, especially with non-white Embalm creatures.

Finally, I can already see the thousands of these fucking things I'm going to be cleaning up over the next few months.

>Finally, I can already see the thousands of these fucking things I'm going to be cleaning up over the next few months.

DUSTBUSTER. Just vacuum them all away

There's a lot of confusion over the "cycling or discard" clause on new cards. Some folks think Cycling causes it to trigger twice which isn't the case.
It's a simple Or statement, that much is understood. I just don't want to be explaining this every match at the prerelease, and/or calling a judge to confirm it.

Is there a good simplified summary, or specific to-the-point ruling I can cite that would ease this process?

Just the word "or", coupled with the explanation that it's literally only worded like that to clarify that cycling will trigger it.

Also, you can give Armadillo Cloak to a creature you don't control and you get the life from it.