NERFED!

So, I'm of two minds on this one.

On one hand, I am in favor of making changes that make player's intuition be correct, which this does. It feels intuitively correct that the CMC is combined.

On the other hand, this feels like a heavy-handed intentional nerf that was entirely unnecessary. Why do this now? What was being hurt by this interaction? The decks that this change killed were only mediocre to begin with, this wasn't really necessary.

tl;dr: Intuitive changes are good, pointless nerfs are bad, a net neutral change. Unfortunate to lose the Brain in a Jar decks though, they were cute.

You're one of those people who thinks Dota2 is better than League of Legends because the high octane autism that is last-hitting your own minions is good design, right?

A game is more than your metagame stagnation autism culture.

One of the issues, as i see it, is that it leads to the extremely non-intuitive interaction that a counterbalance which hits a W/T can't counter either part of a W/T.

>This rewards players who dig into the rules and figure that out, but it baffles a lot of people, too
>KNOWING THE RULES OF THE GAME IS BAFFLING

>Knowing the rules is baffling
>but its ok to keep in shortcuts that cause words to not mean what they mean

Considering the number of people who don't know the rules of the game, baffling is a good word for it.

>Brain in the jar and fuse exploits become an interesting, but not meta breaking deck
>lol, no longer works like that

There will be some expectation that they fix that moronic thing. "Declaring 'combat' means moving to declare attackers step, not moving to the beginning of combat step like everyone assumed for years."
Like holy fuck what a stupid rule.

And guess what, rules lawyers will take advantage of it.
The only difference between that and the split card cmc rules is that one is exploited chiefly during gameplay while the other is exploited chiefly during deck building.
They're both broken, and only exist because of oversights or unforeseen consequences.

They just happen to come up over the natural course of the game's life. That doesn't make the people finding them clever, where the fuck were these geniuses when it came to that attack step shortcut?
It only came up when advanced players were playing with something mechanically relevant.
Most people did not know of this rule prior, and if they did you would bet rules lawyers would have exploited it given the chance.

That isn't deep gameplay, that's just fucking retarded.

This post reads like you have a personal stake in the matter, as does the OP.

Why is this?

>"What do you mean "Couldn't we just apply this fix to this new card-type and leave the old shit in peace"?"
>"What do you mean "We're fucking up a bunch of fun, niche modern decks"?"
>"What do you mean "No one asked for this"?"

Fucking WoTC

>interesting
Hardly

>doesn't think dota2 is better than lol

lmao

>a tier 2.5 deck at best was breaking the game
w e w
e
w

Well it was you scua faglord

Denying is emergent gameplay that DotA is now designed around.

The fact that LoL was built from the ground up and is STILL worse than DotA that has to deal with legacy shit like that just shows how rito doesn't even care.

HotS is still the best

scua?

>people un-ironically think this change is bad

Who cares that it destroys a tier 20 meme deck and slightly changes some interactions?

I'd rather them open up design space instead of always having to worry about printing a split card that could wind up cancerous because of the old ruling or not being able to print a new card because it would be too overpowered with the old ruling of split cards

Fuck off retards

It creates as many unintuitive interactions as it removes, it just shifts where they happen.

>why do you personally care about the rules of a game you play?

Because Modern sideboards are already stretched thin enough without these boring durdle meme decks shitting up the metagame

Because newer players are intimidated enough by the game's autism requirement without having this shit in standard.

Because normalizing retarded, counter-intuitive gameplay and standing by it is autism.
Sorry, 'emergent gameplay.' That's fine and all, feel free to enjoy it but you may as well start up a different game. Which is what happens with mobas.
HotS has overall the best design, but the shitty Starcraft 2 engine makes it feels like you are maneuvering jello on glass. League's engine is at least pretty darn smooth. Dota2 feels like you're playing a bad warcraft 3 crack but that's the intention so w/e.

le this.

I disagree, I feel like the new ruling is a lot more intuitive

>implying u need to dedicate sideboard slots to tier 40 decks

Name one, you clown.

Fire//Ice now can't be imprinted on Isochron Scepter.
Fire is a 2CMC instant
Ice is a 2CMC instant

LOGIC

I personally don't because I main control and eat this shit up right out of the faggot pilot's anus.

But these decks going full sexual predator jumping out of a dark alley on unsuspecting fair burn/midrange kids is unpleasant.

Man fuck I was playing GDD and Boom//Bust in Skred and it was super fun, and while powerful was not gamebreaking.

Now I've lost like fifteen bucks on Boom//Busts and I'm salty that I'm going to have to think of something to replace it with. Probably something boring like Molten Rain.

All you need to end BiJ is a single artifact removal

(Colour)X spells can be 2CMC on the stack too, but they are 1 outside.

Now Fire//Ice is 4CMC everywhere expect, so it makes sense.

Wow that's really gonna tank my Isochron Fire/Ice Scepter Legacy deck darn

Fucking wizards of the clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It makes sense.

Split cards can't be used to counter themselves off of Counterbalance.

Wow, alright we got one new un-intuitive interaction and we lost about all the other ones

Decent trade I'd say

This is pretty important because Miracles would use Wear//Tear off Counterbalance to continually counter cmc 1 and 2 stuff simultaneously.

I'd say its also non-intuitive that you can't cast either half of Boom/Bust with a Goblin Dark Dwellers, rather than only being able to cast Boom, which would, at least to me, make the most sense if we are already changing rules.

>read Isochron Scepter
>you may exile an instant CARD with cmc 2 or less
>you may copy the exiled CARD

The operative word now is card, instead of instant.
Which is more intuitive. Because the scepter asks you for a CARD with cmc 2 or less.
A split card has two spells with individual costs on it. Each side is isolated when you cast it, putting it onto the stack, where it will have its individual converted cost. It is a spell produced by the card at this time.

Otherwise, it's literally a card with two costs which allow pathing into different cast options.
The converted cost of the card is the simplification of costs on a card to a single number.
This is much simpler, and more intuitive than the "HURRDURR Schrodinger's manacost" bullshit prior.

>split cards countering themselves
Who the fuck was doing this? Or do you just mean the pick-and-choose thing?
>read Counterbalance
>counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed CARD.
All you do is ask "Does the cmc of the card match that of the spell on the stack?"

Split cards are NOT two cards in one - they never were. They just had stupid rules that pretended they were because stupidity.
When you mill one of them, do you choose which one you're milling? Derp.
New rules acknowledge the literal fact they are a single card that can produce two different spells.

Is this the first change in the magic's game structure since the combat damage that no longer goes on the stack, or am I wrong?
What change was intended to simplify the whole combat phase when on the other hand this new update is just "we can't or we don't want ban cards so we ban mechanics and change rules as we prefer"....that's not only pretty stupid but also set a dangerous precedent.
also:
fuse cards dindu nuffin'

I think that's an issue with the templating more than anything. Darkdwellers is clear in that it references the cmc of the card.

Pic related, does that help? Bear in mind that they never give any split cards different card types. The card type essentially belongs to the card as a whole. The two instances on each side of the card are pretty much redundant.

It's good to see them cleaning up these rules. Without the change, it just makes split cards and cards that cast others for free more restricted in new printings. It actively makes Miracles worse, and could potentially make something like Living End better by letting them play Rough/Tumble, Dead/Gone, Wear/Tear, or Alive/Well. Good changes all around.

Who even wanted this change? Were people getting upset over being memed on by Brain in a Jar? Where is the demand for this new rule coming from? It seems like needless kicking the teeth in of someone who actually paid money to built the deck. You could have just as easily made the Amonkhet cards follow the new rule while leaving the split cards alone.

Be honest, how many of you actually got affected by this vs how many that didnt? I myself was going to try and build Goryo Expertise, but only bought into the BE and kari Zevs, so I only lost a few bucks, but its fine cause I actually use the expertises for LE.

Yeah I know losing a fun meme deck in memedern sucks, but if I were a newish player and had a decent grasp on rules, that would also be my first impression on how split/fuse cards are supposed to work and not like it is now.

And no it isnt clever or smart that you were playing this interaction in the first place, you just learned about an interaction from others that was weird but breakable cause da rulez said you could and now they say you can't for honestly reasonable reasons. Get over it.

yeah, but that's ugly. Not as ugly as aftermath cards, but still ugly

DFC's went from having 0CMC when transformed to having the same CMC as their face while transformed.
I think it's less them changing things willy nilly, and more them changing shit because they didn't have the foresight to see how they'd be abused and also because software doesn't deal well enough with it. They took almost 9 months to teach MOL how to Monarch without crashing.

Making some split cards follow the old rule and some split cards follow the new rule is actually insane. Could you imagine the game 10 years from now where some split cards are played one way while some are played another way? You would have to be crazy to think that this is a good idea.

>They took almost 9 months to teach MOL how to Monarch without crashing.
Can you explain more? Stories of "weird" bugs interest me

>have cheap kitchen table deck based around cascading into breaking//entering because I pulled two foils of the damn thing
>never had to explain the mechanic to anyone twice
>deck is now completely nonfunctional because reasons
>breaking//entering is a shit card otherwise
Okay. Thanks for making the game easier for new players I guess.

but it is better

>DotA2
>Barely better than HotS
>"Better than League"
Go back to /dota2g/ or whatever it's called

So this is how slow people interact with other humans, interesting.

all those games are trash

Hope u realize u could only cast one side of it if u cheated it out with cascade.

>Hope u realize u could only cast one side of it if u cheated it out with cascade.
Of course, but I could still pick the expensive side.

then just play unburial rites or since your playing kitchen casual all the other reanimator spells at like 2 or less.

>just make an entirely different deck
The point wasn't reanimator. The point was using a neat rules interaction to justify using a shitty card I had multiple foil copies of. Since I don't play competitive the entirety of this rule change's impact on me will be invalidating one of the decks I play kitchen table with. Admittedly not a huge negative, but there's no upside to this change for me. So I'm a little miffed. That's all.

>not playing smite

Denying wasn't designed for Dota, and makes for more interesting laning dynamics than just pushing a lane to oblivion.

Conspiracy 2 didn't release in MOL, you could get some of the new cards through treasure chest but no card with the Monarchy mechanic was avaliable because MOL couldn't process the mechanic.
(((Some))) Monarch cards are finally getting added to the treasure chests when MM3 releases online.

As a genuine League addict for five years who has played DotA twice, you're a fucking retard.

Does that mean that a bunch of people are playing with incomplete legacy decks because no Leovold?

How is that at all unintuitive? You cast wear or tear, the Cmc of the spell does not equal 3

Nice self-deprecation, you say that so you can fit in with your holier-than-thou friends?
"I-I like sucking dick, but of course it's not as hardcore as taking it in the ass!"
Maybe think about why it was you were 'addicted' to League and not Dota2.
It's ok just to suck dick bro. Taking it in the ass isn't for everyone.

I'm thinking we may not have seen what this nerf was for yet. There may be an Aftermath card that necessitated this change to the rules, so they're just getting it out of the way now.

Where are my Living End bros? Between this and new cyclers we have a ton of space to play with!

Leovold WAS one of the released cards. The problem card was Palace Jailer.

>gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=|[R]|[B]|[G]&name= [//]&format= ["Modern"]&cmc= <[3]
Tell me which of this has a place in Living End.

1 and 2 drops that dont mess up cascade and gives us some interaction in the early game. Good sideboard tech.

Breaking is 2 mana to fill your graveyard a bit more

>a whole thread of salty butthurt
holy shit, Veeky Forums every time the mtg community around here astounds with what horrible little babies they are. This change is a fair lineup of intuitive reqction with the game's reality. breaking niche interactions is a consequence of that but hey suck it up.
>this makes no sense
this makes perfect sense. the idea that a card has two simultaneous mana costs is weird on first blush, the fact that split cards had potentially three different costs is boggling in the scope of nothing else in the game doing that.

>it's not complicated
yes it is. they literally outline how a split card simultaneously has three different CMCs, mostly depending on what is the most beneficial. just because you can wrap your head around that, and despite there being specific circumstances when you get a combined or printed cmc, the fact that there are multiple possibilities makes it more complex than the single cmc of every other card in the game. complexity is about quantity, not difficulty.

>why now
literally because aftermath is coming. even if no aftermath cards would have broken this interaction, the fact that it existed and confused players and was going to be in standard is a perfect reason to change it. a better question is why this didn't happen the last time split cards came around.

>but muh nerfs
the rules changed, some things got broken. the idea that they could preserve the card interactions while removing the needless complexity is profoundly stupid, since that would have made the game and these specific interactions MORE complex.

tl;dr: Veeky Forums is a bunch of whiny babies, holy shit, I am amazed.

>Linking to Reddit and MTG Salvation
Fuck outta here, faggot.

I linked a list of all the 1-2 drops living end would now get access to. The only usable one is MAYBE Boom.

It also would require splashing blue.

Sounds do-able. Maybe it might be worth overhauling which creatures are in, reworking the mana base, and replacing one of the cascade spells with Ardent Plea.

Of course "do-able" doesn't mean "worth it"

Because split cards are mechanically and flavorly but not physically, supposed to represent 2 separate cards, which is why we had the old rulings, and why nevermore doesn't lock you out of casting the other half.
This is also why each side costs more than an equivalent effect on a single card, since you're trading mana efficiency for flexibility.
Playing devil's advocate is fun sometimes, but you're a retard about it.

this is what you want

>Playing devil's advocate is fun sometimes, but you're a retard about it.
No u

Maindeck?

Beck looks win-more to me.
Determined might be good for protecting the living end.

Rise could be used to bounce an important creature out your opponent's graveyard and return a bounce a creature before you living end.
Alternatively you can bounce an opponent's creature for tempo and return one of your creatures from your graveyard so you can cycle to draw a card.
It's other side, Fall doesn't seem as useful to me, but is certain cheap enough that you can probably cast it if you want to. Maybe if you find yourself against Ad Naus or something. Just be careful about loading an opponent's graveyard with a creature card with that discard half (a couple of ad naus spirit guides don't seem that dangerous, so wreck that combo players hand!).

The other cards are useless or sideboard stuff.

Oh yeah, I skipped breaking because someone already mentioned that.