The fighter and the barbarian rely on their strength. strength is the measure of their physical prowless

>the fighter and the barbarian rely on their strength. strength is the measure of their physical prowless.
Okay.
>the rogue and the ranger rely on their dexterity. Dexterity represents their hand-eye coordination and finesse
Sure.
>The wizard relies on his intellect. Intellect is the measurement of one's knowledge.
Makes sense.
>The cleric relies on his wisdom. Wisdom is a measure of common sense.
>The cleric believes in god(s)
Now hold up just a god damn minute.

Other urls found in this thread:

store.steampowered.com/app/343150/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

It is common sense to believe in gods since gods are quantifiable and active. Only fools are atheists.

Prove me 1 instance of jesus being real. I'll wait.

*tips fedora*
that'd be a good thought in any setting where there was no proof of gods existing. but as it stands every setting has quantifiable proof of divinity so you're a fag

You're a fucking moron. I play a d20 MODERN setting because im not some fucking nostalgiafag trying to live the Good Ol Days of post renissance neomodernism 1600s. There are zilch, ZERO, NADA gods in modern.

>magic
>existing
I bet you believe in witches too

>hurr durr wicca isnt real
Stupid bitch, you'd better make peace with your family and friends tonight before you go to sleep...

alright, no need to flip your lid because i used hyperbole

The Bible.

We're not talking about real life we're talking about in D&D. In 3.pf for example you get to meet Iomedae, a god. Also you can summon the servants of gods. And talk to gods. You can even become a (demi)god.

Wait, d20 modern has clerics who get divine magic?

I bet if you were born 100 years ago you would have believed in god like everyone else you stupid fuck

Rude sage

yeah, you used hyperbole like an arrogant piece of shit who thinks the world revolves around himself. stop doing that.

>3.pf
opinion discarded. you have ZERO reading comprehension and do not understand that i'm talking about a M O D E R N A E S T H E T I C where there are CARS and GUNS and FALSE PROPHETS

street shaman and Father get them.

>his setting has actual gods

Nice bait thread, try to hide your fedora better next time

>anything i dont like is bait
you must be a fun person at parties.

6/10, have a (you)

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

whgats the matter did i trigger ur fee fees??

Yeah okay whatever nerd. You're probably just jealous that I have made a successful game on steam and now I'm expanding into making the greatest modules for use in roll20. Fuck off cunt.

>street shaman and Father get them.
So the gods probably exist, then. Something has to be giving them magic, they're not doing it themselves like the wizard is. I mean, they might be wrong about the nature of the gods, but that's the difference between wisdom and intelligence. High intelligence would have them investigating just what the gods they draw power are, high wisdom is just them accepting the reality of their existence and leaving more abstract theoretical questions to someone else, they're busy.

>didn't think anyone could be retarded
>was proven wrong
Never change Veeky Forums

Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers, Father gets his powers from the medical supplies he keeps. he's so deluded into thinking he's the servant of god he does not realize when he's injecting medicines or poisons into people.

Yeah, you're retarded

>street shaman and Father get them.
Then gods exist by the fact that such characters are directly empowered by the gods.

>opinion discarded. you have ZERO reading comprehension and do not understand that i'm talking about a M O D E R N A E S T H E T I C where there are CARS and GUNS and FALSE PROPHETS
Nigger you didn't say that in the initial post.

Wisdom is in many ways linked with philosophy and one's ability to reason. It's also linked with one's ability to understand others and their surroundings (sense motive, perception, survival). It is also associated with willpower (the will saving throw).

Wisdom is a lot more than just common sense. The whole wisdom being only common sense thing is a meme.

please see >Anonymous 04/04/17(Tue)15:36:04 No.52540
learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.

>Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers, Father gets his powers from the medical supplies he keeps. he's so deluded into thinking he's the servant of god he does not realize when he's injecting medicines or poisons into people.
Then shit, they aren't empowered by gods. I still don't get why the Father or Street Shaman matter when the FUCKING INTIAL POST SAYS CLERIC.

CLERIC IS NOT A CLASS IN D20MODERN. IT IS A CLASS IN MOST EDITIONS OF D&D.

NOTHING IN THE INITIAL POST LEADS ONE TO THINK THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF D20 MODERN.

>learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.
Fucking choke on a bag of dicks. Where the fuck was D20 Modern, Father or fucking Street Shaman mentioned in the OP.

They're not relevant to this discussion. We're talking about Clerics.

>learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.
I can't see you as doing anything but trolling. This entire thread is bait.

IF U READ THE FUCKING THREEAD ITS BECASUE I AM MAKING A MODOLE FOR USE ON ROLL20 U STUPID FUCK. U HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO MAKEN ANYTHING BECUASE U ARE A LAZY SHITPOSTER MEANWHILE I HAVE A GAME ON STEAM store.steampowered.com/app/343150/ AND U HAVE JACK SHIT

FUCKING LEARN TO READ
FUCKING LEARN TO APPLY YOURSELF
DRINK BLEACH

FUCK YOU.

THEN SAY THAT IN YOUR INITAL POST YOU FUCKING COCK SUCKER AND DON'T MAKE A FUCKING BAIT THREAD THEN SPERG WHEN PEOPLE GIVE YOU ANSWERS AND GOING 'WELL YOUR ANSWER IS WRONG BECAUSE OF INFORMATION I DIDN'T GIVE YOU'.

FUCK OFF. JESUS CHRIST.

>HURR DURR IM A FUCKING RETARD IM GOING TO COME INTO A THREAD AND BITCH ABOUT THE THREAD DOHYIEEEE
FUCK YOU STUPID BITCH GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE THREAD THEN IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING MEANINGFUL.

AND FYI THE INFORMATION IS IN THE GODDAMN THREAD U STUPID FUCKING NIGGER SO U COULD BE HELPING GIVE ANSWERS WITH THAT IN MIND BUT INSTEAD YOURE JUST A FUCKING SHITPOSTER EAT A WALL OF DICKS.

bump

If you can wait till tomorrow ill cast cure light wounds on you. Because DnD.

were not playing d&d we are playing modern.

In a setting where magic and gods are demonstrably real, being an atheist isn't very wise.

You are falling for this?

oh look its another asshole who can't read the fucking thread and realize we're playing modern.

>>/a/

Shit then yeah. In d20 modern the reasoning is because wisdom means a lot more than just common sense. Wisdom always has meant a lot more than common sense. That's why clerics run on wisdom.

It's the same reason most charisma casters don't cast with how pretty they are despite appearance being part of charisma.

Kill yourself nigger.

>oh look its another asshole who can't read the fucking thread and realize we're playing modern.
If you want actual discussion put relevant information in the OP instead of getting butthurt when people answer based on information in the OP.

If you were talking about d20 modern why didn't you mention it from the get go and instead use names of D&D classes? Literally what reason would someone reading the OP have to believe you were talking about d20 modern unless he goes to read your subsequent shit flinging.

Most settings that have clerics have gods that exist

bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang that him can give you super natural power. its like saying "yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself" when in realizty its jbecuse you threw a gasole bottle into the enemy face and threw matchs until it lit

eat dicks. learn to fucking read the thread and quit repeating the same boring old stale shitposts over and over again you stupid 12y/o

this isnt most settings u stupid nigger. read the fucking thread.

>OP says clerics
>gets mad when people address the idea of clerics and not d20 modern, which doesn't have clerics
>somehow we're supposed to infer from the OP you weren't talking about clerics, but talking about d20 modern classes

R E A D T H E T H R E A D
i dont understand the incesttance you peopleh ave with focusing on some shitty OP post instead of looking deeper into it. its like you fags never got the memot about justing a book by its cover

OP are you retarded?

>bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist
Wisdom casters in D20 Modern aren't powered by gods.

If there was a cleric of class directly powered by a deity in d20 modern then they themselves would be proof of their existence.

Clerics aren't in d20 modern.

>yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself
Charisma casters quite literally do this through force of personality exerting their will over the world around them.

>eat dicks. learn to fucking read the thread and quit repeating the same boring old stale shitposts over and over again you stupid 12y/o
Shit man, if you're gonna call other people 12 at least try and be able to type a post without misspelling half of it.

Wisdom represents a character's ability to do mental gymnastics

Ok, let me spell it out for you.

In d20 modern you are working in a modern setting. Wisdom based 'casters' are not based on the direct powering of a deity. There are no 'clerics' in d20 modern. The street shaman and father aren't powered by deities. They work on other aspects of what wisdom is, such as will power and understanding.

If there was a class whose flavor was they were directly empowered by a deity the class existing would be the proof.

Shit I'm still not seeing a connection between your two arguments of why gods and belief matter when both your examples aren't powered by gods.

No, but you are. Fuck off.

>Wisdom casters in D20 Modern aren't powered by gods.

>If there was a cleric of class directly powered by a deity in d20 modern then they themselves would be proof of their existence.

>Clerics aren't in d20 modern.
hence why i have included Street shaman and Father u stupid piece of shit. FUCK YOU, LEARN TO READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD

>Charisma casters quite literally do this through force of personality exerting their will over the world around them.
we are talking about cleric like classes not charism acasters asshole

>Shit man, if you're gonna call other people 12 at least try and be able to type a post without misspelling half of it.
shit man if uyoure gonna call other people 12 then try not to suck my dick off when you dont understand that im literally tpying this on a cellphone while on a train home from work asshole

is that like undressing you with the power of your mind?

You guys all know that OP makes this same "clerics shouldn't use wisdom as their primary stat because belief in gods is unwise" thread about once a week, right

so he is retarded?

Yes. He is. He's also posting shitty bait.

FINALLY, someone who fucking understands what im trying to say, Wisdom is a stupid stat to associate with them because they are not diety god they should be CHARISMA based. Holy fucking shit you guys are retarded, it took you long enough to understand what I was saying? Jesus christ apply yourselfs and re-enroll in kindergarden holy hell

so youre in agreement that the cyoa jumpchain spamposts every fucking DAY need to fuck off and die on qst where they belong? Fuck off w

>Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers
>its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang
Couldn't Jesus be a particularly powerful street shaman?

>hence why i have included Street shaman and Father u stupid piece of shit. FUCK YOU, LEARN TO READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD
Street Shaman and Father aren't powered by common sense. They are powered by other aspects of the wisdom stat. I'm still not seeing your reasoning here. They aren't 'cleric like' because their flavor is entirely different from clerics.

Not that clerics are powered by common sense either. They're powered by their understanding of their deity and his teachings, something else wisdom based.

No well maybe I guess but then that would mean that he could be but that wouldnt it kinda makes sense..? but they didnt have like streets and shit back then so how could they have done that?

hold the fuck up while i try ot solve this fucking thread, you guys are retarded but its like 1000 monkeys in a room if i can sift through all your bullshit i might be able to make a coherent answer out of it

Thanks for the keks OP.

I call bullshit. Nobody's played d20 Modern for like a decade now.
Ops & Tactics doesn't count.

This is bait, but whatever, I'm bored.
Wisdom isn't just common sense, it reflects the application of knowledge, as well as the acuity of one's senses.
This is why animal handling and perception are wisdom-based skills.
Now if you're honestly telling me clerics don't apply the knowledge imparted by their faith in their lives, well then shiggy diggy.

Also
>says clerics
>backpedals and days d20 modern
Can't have your fedora and eat it too.

>FINALLY, someone who fucking understands what im trying to say, Wisdom is a stupid stat to associate with them because they are not diety god they should be CHARISMA based. Holy fucking shit you guys are retarded, it took you long enough to understand what I was saying? Jesus christ apply yourselfs and re-enroll in kindergarden holy hell
Except you're entirely wrong here. Clerics do not work on "Force of Personality" or other aspects of charisma.

Clerics are powered by their understanding of their deity and their teachings, something wisdom based as reasoning and awareness is wisdom based.

Them being charisma based would make them not clerics.

>when you get so fanny-flustered that you can't even finish your post

I miss having quest threads on Veeky Forums.

OKAY THEN, WELL MAYBE wizard of coast just made a typo then when they assumed that wisdom would be common sense? Maybe that should be a stat for intellignece then.

>bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang that him can give you super natural power. its like saying "yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself" when in realizty its jbecuse you threw a gasole bottle into the enemy face and threw matchs until it lit

Prove to me right now that some sort of god doesn't exist.

>protip: You can't
God can neither be proven or disproven and that is why belief is called faith.


Also at the most basic level this is a game of wish fulfillment and fiction. There is no reason that a piece of fiction can not have gods that are totally real and a part of the setting.

This whole thread is just bait from a fedora who probably watched Moral Orel and totally missed the point.

>Tl;Dr
You're over reacting about how others actions don't affect you

Clerics powers should scale as inverse wisdom. As 0/wis obviously since gods don't exist

Wisdom IS common sense, it is also many other things.

Like I said, it's the same reason most charisma based casters don't cast with how pretty they are, despite that beings one of the factors of charisma.

Common sense is part of wisdom, but not all of wisdom, and not even a majority of wisdom.

There's some roundabout proof in the Bible. See the history part tries to triangulate his birth with 3 events that supposedly happened that year (Herod's purge, the Roman census, and a third one I forget) that have some obvious flaws (like how Herod died 4 years before Jesus was born). However, the fact that the Bible tries so damn hard to square the circle and pinpoint a date, leads many scholars to assume that there was at least some guy fitting Joshua's description that was around at the time.

So it's not proof of Jesus, but it is evidence of a "close enough" being an important figure of the time.

ITT:
>some user is pretending to be angryanon and people fall for the bait.
>people fall for OPs bait.
>I'm replying to this thread despite knowing it's bait.

This is the worst thread I've seen all day

I can prove it right now.
I just drew 666 on the bible my uncle keeps here on the computer desk with ketchup, after I said "if god exists he would smite me for doing this" and nothing bad happened .youre a fucking moron, user.

Faith and common sense do not go hand and hand, and which is why comon sense should be intelligence and not wisdom unlike who is clearly an autistic piece of shit would like to believe.

And i dont know what the fuck moral oral is so please keep your stupid meme references to pop culture to yourself you normie facebook subhuman filth.

In a setting where the gods are real and grant you actual usable powers, why not?

"Wisdom is common sense" never made any fucking sense.
Wisdom is perception.

>I-ITS PROOF GUYS
>w... well... not really.. but its uh close enough
>I-IT COUNTS I SWEAR!

read hte fukcing thread you stupid nigger cunt god fucking damn i wish i could edit posts and change the OP to tell you stupid shitheads to eat a dick and die if you dont fucking learn to read.

Attention deulists, this is a d20 modern thread in disguise. As we all know d20 modern ranks with scion in terms of bitter fanbases, OP is slinging shit trying to generate discission for a game only he plays.

TL; DR, shit's bait. There's no saving it, let it slide.

>HURRR ANYTHING I DONT LIKE IS BAIT!
have a stroke when your dad suck your cock u piece of shit

Why not just delete the thread then and make a new thread with all the info in the OP then? It'll avoid all of these people coming in and misunderstanding you, and you might actually get a real answer.

Not all people with high wisdom have common sense the same as not everyone with high charisma is beautiful. I'm saying that common sense is a part of wisdom a part that doesn't impact clerics.

You buried youraelf famalamadingdong by mentioning clerics specifically, which are more often kept in fantasy.
Also d20 modern a shit

ive already tryed it says i cant del a post that old.

yea we have inferred tha already that comon sense is int based and not wis based so i wish i could edit the op to reflect this but Veeky Forums is fucking stupid and doesnt have a proper eddit button.

Your shit, keep living nostalgia rose tinted goggle good ol days "muh 1600s medievil" because u cant step it up and play with real men in the modern time you game of pretend likeing faglord

>I-IT COUNTS I SWEAR!

Oh come off it. Even Christopher Hitchens who was as anti-theistic as you can get, noted this in his book that was all about shitting on religion, that yeah based on how hard they tried to tie events to his birth, there probably was some actual guy walking around that they were writing about. It's one of those "the man is buried in their mythos" things.

Shit I'm an atheist, but even I think that yeah, there probably was someone stirring up shit politically that they wrote about later and made into Jesus.

A little off topic, but I'm not terribly familiar with Scion's fanbase. What are they bitter about?

>perception.
Its not just attentiveness its street smarts as well as spiritual knowledge as well. Attentiveness in perception, street smarts for medicine checks (more or less triage and knowing plants) survival, and insight (reading social cues), and spirituality in being able to read into the deeper meaning of all things.

Clerics are wisdom casters because they're able to see the subtleties of the universe and how the gods touch on all things. Monks are wisdom based because they can see the energy within themselves and others. Sure you could lump them under perception but being good at spotting traps does not necessarily convey the same ability to see one's path in the world from a spiritual standpoint.

First off you're assuming god is the Christian God with a capital G. It doesn't have to be that god. It can be any god. Can you construct a logical argument proving god is not real? Even if it was christian God why would he care about your petty actions to prove or disprove him? Why would he waste time and effort on you?

All you've done is prove you're an asshole who is willing to destroy his families holy relics.

>Faith and Common Sense
Wisdom is not just a measurement of common sense. Wisdom can purely be some one passing on phrses and parables about how to live and not get boned. Which is what most holy books are. Just words to live by written by some one who probably had a pretty good handle on the not dying and hurting yourself thing.

You've still done nothing to disprove wisdom is not the appropriate stat for Clerics, Priests, or Street Shaman.

Common sense is wisdom based not int based. Saying otherwise doesn't change that. It also doesn't make you always have good common sense at high wisdom since common sense is only an aspect of wisdom.

You have still given no reasoning for why clerics are powers by common sense. They're powered by wisdom which can but not necessarily indicates a lot of common sense when high. Same as high charisma can indicate beauty but doesn't necessarily do so.

Stats have multiple aspects which aren't necessarily all on the pot at once.

look first off i dont know who the fuck your buttbuddy even chrisopher is and second i dont care because unless you can get me some solid concrete evidence that he exists then im going to call you out on your bullshit for it. i can ask god to just show up and say hi but he wont do it not because he's busy but because he's not real. if god was real then the world woudln't be a goddamn clusterfuck now would it? he could just solve all our problems because hes supposed to be this big compassionate figure (LOL BUT DONT WORRY ABOUT HIS GURO FETISH HELLPIT WHERE HE PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO DONT SUCK HIS COCK BECAUSE HES AN EGOTISTICAL MOTHERFUCKER BUT DONT TALK ABOUT IT)

fuck you, take your religious shit somewhere else you jesus freak

...

All these flavours and you chose to be salty.

I'm gonna be honest here, I prefer sci-fi to fantasy.
But the reason why d20 modern is shit is because, well, IRL exists.
If you can't realize that a storytelling medium set in a modern era can so easily fall into either the uncanny valley or just shitty slice of life, then I guess you've got the rose tinted contacts, fameria

Logical argument: If god is real then he would say "im real" when someone wonders if he is or isn't real.

I wont hold my breath waiting for him to say hi though but you totally should (ps: it wont ever happen.)

im not going to read the rest of your post because frankly i have better things to do with my time than listen to ignorant shitposters like yourself.

read the thread. we proved that common sense is NOT wis based because thematically it does not make sense.

>>The cleric relies on his wisdom. Wisdom is a measure of common sense.
>>The cleric believes in god(s)
>Now hold up just a god damn minute.
but gods definitely exist in most fantasy RPG settings

Moral Orel is like the least normy thing possible. It's a claymation show from the early days of Adult Swim that got canned from low ratings and being generally offensive.

Also how do you have this much hatred in your heart? You should calm down, take some breaths, and probably move on with your life. You're only hurting yourself with all this anger over a game of make believe. Go outside, talk to some one and try to be nice. You might make a friend.

>I can't imagine improving my life
enjoy living on your moms basement for the rest of your (hopefully short) days then user. you must have the shittiest life ever and be a real boring peace of shit, no wonder youre here shitposting in my thread on a korean fax printout website than hanging out with friends or something.

read the threa,d not talkiing about most, were taling about d20 modern. asshole.

>adult swim
>not normie
fuck off idiot.

And dont tell me to calm down you fucking jackass, you and the other trolls in this thread are the people that are causing the problems and i wouldnt be suprirsed if you guys were the ones that left all those negative reviews on my first game.

>LOL BUT DONT WORRY ABOUT HIS GURO FETISH HELLPIT WHERE HE PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO DONT SUCK HIS COCK BECAUSE HES AN EGOTISTICAL MOTHERFUCKER BUT DONT TALK ABOUT IT)
LITERALLY NEVER MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE
A LATER INVENTION BY THE CHURCH
Fuck off cunt, roman records have the crucifixion of christ written. Whether he preformed miracles or not is the question, the man himself existed.

>read the thread. we proved that common sense is NOT wis based because thematically it does not make sense.
Shit man you never proved that. You claimed it and claimed your reasoning was infallible. You know what I knew this was just a bait thread for a while I just need to stop biting the hook.

>this whole thread

>read the threa,d not talkiing about most, were taling about d20 modern. asshole.
oh yeah i read the thread. it's just funny at this point

yea but yu ever consider that maybe they used him as some sort of make believe miracle man in order to scare low intelligence fools like yourself into tithig to a church because the whole concept of religion is just a gigantic pyramid sceme used to deprive people of their money? "A fool and his monye are soon parting"

Whatever helps you wank better at night, user. Dumbass.

I'm glad you're enjoying it then. Maybe now you can actually quit posting filler posts and actually post something of value to this thread so we can get my proble m solved, no?

The Bible is the claim.
It can't be the evidence.

Scion's basic idea is the PCs are sons and daughters of Gods. Hermes, Bast, Baldur and such. White Wolf fucked the execution all the way up though. You had to have epic dex to participate in combat, some boons were overcosted or didn't work, and there wasn't really a setting. It was a good idea executed poorly, and that kills games. Port it to FATE or something, or play Exalted.

>i wouldnt be suprirsed if you guys were the ones that left all those negative reviews on my first game.
THE PLOT THICKENS

I think we all know OP isn't a WIS based character.

I was more referring to the fact that, instead of being a literal besment-dwelling autist and just imagining a better life, I just go out and get a better life.
But, of course, that kind of behaviour is inconceivable to a d20 modern neckbeard, and is only proven by your autistic, fedora-tipping rage on a "thread on a korean fax printout website"
You probably only play d20 modern just to imagine what having friends feels like
:^]

...

bible is circular logic
"GOD EXISTS IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE THAT HE WROTE xD"

uhh okay i dont understand your post but for reference store.steampowered.com/app/343150/ just look at those fucking blatantly obvious fake negative reviews, i have proof that theyre trolls in the comments but knowing 99% of this thread thyere just ognna look at it and pretend to be retarded along with them too.

stupid moron quit taking the words out of my mouth and using them against me. you need to grow the fuck up and realize that when you play medievan princess and dragons youre looking like that guy who plays with sonic and pika chu all day and cross dressed because he couldnt get laid. i bet youre just like that guy in real life. probably smell like shit too. asshole.