/osrg/ OSR General - Turtle Shell Edition

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General thread.

>Links - Includes a list of OSR games, a wiki, scenarios, and a vast Trove of treasure!
pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd

>Discord Server - Live design help, game finder, etc.
discord.me/osrg

>OSR Blog List - Help contribute by suggesting more.
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>Webtools & Resources - Help contribute by suggesting more.
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>Previous thread:
THREAD QUESTION:
>What's your favorite non-fantasy OSR game?

Other urls found in this thread:

swordplusone.com/warband_print.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=VmkySNDX4dU
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>What's your favorite non-fantasy OSR game?

Could you turn the early eighties-editions of Warhammer 40k into an old-school dungeon crawler the same way D&D evolved from Chainmail? Space Hulk and shit like that?

If you could, that would be my favorite.

I think you could, especially after looking at WFB 1e. Hell, award character points for advancement, and you're already there with Rogue Trader I think.

It's missing all of the things that OD&D is missing system-wise. You'd have to put a game on it (the hard part with 40k is what do you the characters do?)

>Is there an OSR system out there where thieves aren't terrible?
Continuing the non-sucky thief skill options (see and ), you could simply take the BECMI / RC thief and give him skill stats as if he were X levels higher (since they progress slowly, you won't max out all your skills before 14th level, like you would if you did something similar with the B/X thief). Pic is the RC thief skills at 7 levels higher than they're supposed to be.

There's Warband! from sword+1. Its rogue trader era slaves to darkness chaos marauders busting into spacehulks as dungeons. Haven't had time to play it, looks fun though.

>swordplusone.com/warband_print.pdf

Second edition Dark Heresy would work fine enough, you'd just need to make the roles more distinctive, add a bunch more psychic powers, maybe ditch some if notall skills.

>>What's your favorite non-fantasy OSR game?

My guilty pleasure is Alpha Blue. Sexy times ahead.

Hell, to make things easy, you could even do thief skills from RC at 10 levels higher. So for a 1st level thief, you'd look at level 11, for a 2nd level thief, you'd look at level 12, etc. It's crazy that this isn't completely broken. I guess it just goes to show how ridiculously terrible the thief skills are in BECMI / RC.

29. Instead of saying, "My bad"… this alien will
dislodge one of his eyeballs so that the critic or
offended individual or party may skull-fuck
him.

Just use 2e maybe?

Are there any decent classes for pcs who want to play as a non-biological golem or robot? Even a link to home brew is fine.

I'm gonna be honest, I run off-brand warhammer fantasy using B/X so I use all the books from WFRPG. They work really really well if for nothing else but flavor.

>non-biological golem or robot?

Isn't a biological golem or robot just a human

Flesh golems are basically Frankenstein monsters.

Proficiencies.
Class groups.
Higher incidence of ability checks.

For those who played 5e: How does it play, compared to B/X (beyond higher survivability, I mean)? Can you play OSR adventures just by bumping a few enemy hit dice here and there?

>How does it play, compared to B/X (beyond higher survivability, I mean)?

About the same as 3e to be honest.

>Can you play OSR adventures just by bumping a few enemy hit dice here and there?

Nope. Skills, feats, powerful spells, too much healing, and a bunch of other shite gets in the way.

There's generally a straight conversion system. For example, 1 HD monsters become 2HD, 2HD monsters become 5HD.

What do you do when PCs try to sell something that should be valuable, but you've either forgot what it was worth or never came up with it's worth to begin with? How do you decide it's worth in the moment?

By pricing at about the same cost as an item of comparable rarity, complexity, or magic?

It isn't rocket science.

Does Forgotten Realms Adventures have the best treasure tables for 2e? The gems are awesome.

>What's your favorite non-fantasy OSR game?
probably either Colonial Troopers or Hideouts & Hoodlums at the moment, although I imagine once Mutant Crawl Classics comes out it'll also be at the top

also on the topic of non-Fantasy OSR, I still want to make a Mecha focused OSR game

Opportunity for plot twist: An independent buyer NPC (traits: naive, impulsive, more dollars than sense) shows up out of nowhere and excitedly offers a ton of GP for it. If the PCs sell on the spot, the buyer returns later having found out it's a fake. And maybe he brings mercenaries with him to ensure he gets a refund.

FUCK YES! This is one reason why I'm accused of not being OSR, because I use it just for the sweet tables.

I know you said besides this but the higher survivability really is the main concern, assuming you don't have a problem with how skills are handled.
Maybe don't allow healing on short rests and reduce the healing on a long rest.

Also resource management is much less of a problem for casters. Banning damaging cantrips or limiting the number of times they can be used might be appropriate. In that situation you need to keep in mind that warlocks are much more dependent on them than others.

Someone made a list a few threads back about what you'd need to change in order to be able to play OSR on 5e.

It was a pretty long list.

What's comparable to say, a crystal orb containing the soul of a king?
A set of pens made of pure gold?
A key made of jewels from the moon?
A beating, silver heart?
The petrified body of the queen of horses?
An unbreakable piece of string?
Working porcelain eyes?
Insta-dragon, just add water?
A gun from 500 years in the future?
A spellbook woven from the dead body of a sphinx?

Imagine how much you personally would be willing to pay for it in real life.
Assuming your other prices make sense, convert that to your setting's currency.

Maybe scale back slightly, depending on how common-place magic is.

I guess I'll ask this here.

Is it just me or is the multiclassing in 2nd edition really overpowered?
At the point a mage reaches level 11, a fighter/mage would be level 8/9.
Seems like anyone who could become a fighter/mage would rather be one than a straight mage.

A multiclass mage can neither wear much armor not be a specialist wizard. Specialist wizards may be a bit less overpowered, but they're also fucking awesome.

Multiclass clerics are basically a bit more buff and tough but can't be specialist priests, and those are awesome as well.

Multiclass thieves... well, thieves suck anyway, so sticking them along with a fighter or a mage will only improve them.

Incalculable/1,000,000,000 GP
500 GP
500 GP (more if someone knows how/where to use it)
500 GP
20,000 GP (good luck moving it)
500 GP
1000 GP
2000 GP per HD of dragon created
1 GP to normies/2000 GP to mechanists, technomancers, or dumb nobles
As a normal spellbook but x2.5

I like the city generators in Calimport and the encounter tables in City System. FR has a bunch of cool little things buried under clutter.

Nah

Getting access to higher level spells ASAP is a really huge deal

Fighter/mages are nice because they're tougher early on and frankly cool but

them high level spells, mang.

As long as it isn't clearly gamebreaking in some way I plan to allow it, so I guess that's fine.

Also, in the unlikely scenario that your game manages to keep going to really high levels, the multiclass guy will eventually start lagging far more than just a single level.

Cool, thanks!
Would you mind going into more detail on how you decided upon those prices? I'm guessing that your go-to "interesting item" price is 500 GP, but why did you double it for the porcelain eyes and why is it so high for the petrified horse? Why is the king's soul in particular so highly priced?

What have you done with Halflings in your games?

I'm looking for ideas myself, but I want to keep the essence of halfling as it is. No tiny psycho cannibals please.

You can play OSR with 5e, but you need to change somethings:

>Ban feats and multiclass (they optional rules btw)
>Remove Death Saves (this is really what makes 5e have a higher survivability)
>Maybe reduce hp dice by one tier (reduce fighters HD from 1d10 to 1d8, wizards' from 1d6 to 1d4...)
>Most classes have a lot of features, if you like OSR by it's simplicity, you will probably ignore them

Zak S. has good post about 5e skills, you should read it:

dndwithpornstarsblogspot.com/2017/01/5th-edition-skills-vs-old-school-skills.html

After War X was best gundam, those suits in that art just didn't get enough love.

I've removed them

Fuck Bilbo, Fuck Frodo, Fuck Sam, Fuck Merry and Pippin and the Gaffer too

You wanna be short but not gruff, be a 2nd-generation dwarf born to surface immigrants who became successful comfy villagefolk.

Any advice on how to improve this Game here?

I know the psychic powers could use some work/combining the redundant ones, but I assume everyone here thinks the gunplay system is pretty good.

These are neat. Not but I'll try. I'm looking at B/X and I'm just going to wing it based on costs of making magic items, treasure tables and being inexperienced. Everyone feel free to tell me I'm fucking it up and why.

Soul of the Crystal King, depending on how long they've been dead for, what they have title to, who's looking, their family, their rivals, a necromancer trying to stage a coup, a psychopomp trying to send the soul to hades, etc. 5000gp and up, make an offer. I'd try and trade it for political position personally.

Mida's Calligraphy Set. 500gp. Its a well made cool thing. But its not magic.

Key of the Fallen Moon. I'm assuming its hard to get to the moon, and the key does something there. So its not really that valuable except to specific moon oriented people, otherwise its some nicely worked jewellery. 600gp unless a special buyer in which case much more. Seems like a better quest hook.

Lycanthropy Heart Transplant Cure. 1000gp, its magical and fascinating, but not super useful. Its cool though, and I'd try to have a rumour table about who's heart it is, maybe them wanting it back. 10000 to the Death Knight who lost it?

Horse Whisperer Statue. Do they know its a queen or do they think its a life like statue? Are there still horse people who want their queen back? 500gp for a statue or everything the horse people have for their queen. Lets say 10000, horse barbarians on call, etc.

Theoretical String. 100gp per inch. Not sure why, just seems about right.

Doll Eyes. 2500gp. Kind of like cure serious wounds, kind of like remove curse. Added an extra 500gp because they seem better than a scroll of 'regenerate eyes' in ways. Put them in backwards and see into your soul!

Instr-Dragon (already a cool name and I'm running out of ideas), depends on how we determine dragon type. They're treasure type H, which is suppose to average at 50000 so 20000 feels right. Its worth a lot. You can basically ruin anything's day with this.

>so sticking them along with a fighter or a mage will only improve them.
Fighter/Thief is good, but even with their low xp tax Mage/Thief is just dragging down Mage.
Cleric/Thief is OK though, since their skillsets have so little overlap.

>Mage/Thief is just dragging down Mage.

Not really any worse than fighter/thief is dragging down fighter.

>why did you double it for the porcelain eyes
You said they were "working" so assumed they could not only be used as prosthetic but perhaps also as a spying tool. Pop out a spare eye and put it in a nook and you can visually spy on people.

>the petrified horse
Well, you said she's the queen of horses so I assume she's some kinda semi-divine creature. Having her could theoretically be a great boon to any organization if she can command horses.

>Why is the king's soul in particular so highly priced
Well, souls are actually pretty valuable in general in most D&D settings. Add the fact that it belongs to a king and suddenly you have an opportunity to disrupt a country.

>No tiny psycho cannibals please.
You're lame. I guess you could go with Shadowmoor Kithkin if you don't want to totally suck ass.

Not , but I used the gems/jewellery random values to eyeball things like golden pens, hearts made of silver, etc. and added a bit if it was magical. The king's soul I put lower than the horse queen because I don't know about the king's actual value or context, but at least the horse queen had something I can work with. I did the eyeballs off making scrolls that would regrow eyes and added more because they're multiple use technically. I have no idea how to actually price the instant dragon, need more info on what kind of dragon, how big, etc. I just assumed it made a huge one and let it lose. Seems not right but its already pretty fucked up as is.

The gun from the future was going to get a price based on wands and the spellbook was going to be 2-3 times as much as a normal spellbook, probably depending on the wizard you were trying to sell it to/reaction rolls and salemanship.

You make up a number and move on, because selling shit isn't the fun part of the game and isn't what you should be worrying about.

Ah fuck, I just noticed that I wrote 1 billion. Meant 1 million.

>because selling shit isn't the fun part of the game and isn't what you should be worrying about.

I just got reminded of my first DM, who turned every fucking shopkeeper interaction into an awful 40-minute bargaining affair

Just let me subtract the GP and buy a fucking tent, Jack

>At the point a mage reaches level 11, a fighter/mage would be level 8/9.
At the point a fighter/wizard reaches level 8/9, a single-class wizard is only a little bit into level 10. So if anything, your example makes the single-class character look comparatively stronger than it actually is. Fighter/wizards in 2e, however, are considerably weaker than in 1e--and weaker than elves in Basic--as those fuckers can wear plate mail.

>A multiclass mage can neither wear much armor not be a specialist wizard.
Elven chainmail is a lot better than no armor at all.

>Elven chainmail is a lot better than no armor at all.

Agreed, but until you find some you're stuck swinging your sword basically naked, which if you ask me is worse than staying entirely out of the front lines.

>Agreed, but until you find some you're stuck swinging your sword basically naked, which if you ask me is worse than staying entirely out of the front lines.
I think you're better off avoiding the front line at that point anyway. It's just that you have access to good ranged weapons, and can inflict good damage in melee when a monster manages to get at you.

Made them into literal and figurative Gypsies.

Hey, what is the name of that random creature generator with all those crazy ass tables to roll on for monster traits, looks, things like that? I'm wanting to whip some stuff up for my LotFP game.

You'll want Random Esoteric Creature Generator.

The bigger problem here is the wizard's power curve. Going from level 1 to level 2, a wizard gains a single 1st level spell. Going from level 10 to level 11, a wizard gains a 3rd level spell, a 4th level spell *and* a 5th level spell. That's an insane difference just in terms of gaining 3 spells rather than 1.

Anyway, being a couple of levels lower is a big deal for a wizard, so multiclass characters might not be as strong as they look. On the other hand, high-level wizards are ridiculously powerful on their own.

THANK YOU! My brain just did not want to work today!

So the party's going to get stuck in a snowstorm and need to explore a long-abandoned mountain pass for shelter.

Besides the obvious ancient barbarian tombs, guarded by the dead, what else are they going to find?

Dinosaurs frozen in the ice that come to life and bite the PCs.

Mummy mammoths.
Living kegs of ale.
A very angry robot wearing leather.

>What have you done with Halflings in your games?
They're effectively the fighter / thief racial class. Sort of. On the fighter side, they're sort of like rangers minus the explicit nature stuff (so scouts, basically, I guess). On the thief side, they're maybe closer to jacks of all trades. They're less focused than thieves, but have modest skill at just about anything you can think of. "Oh, shit! The navigator just died and we have nobody to guide our ship!" No worries. The halfling can do a passable job of it just from having watched him work for a little bit.

One of the only things preventing halflings from taking over the world is the fact that they're too easy going. They just lack large-scale ambition. They may have curiosity and ingenuity on their side, but not drive or persistence. And even their curiosity is muted. They want to know what's in that bag you're carrying, but they're cool with it when you tell them to fuck off. They tend to be really zen about life in that way. Of course, halfling adventurers tend to be a bit more driven than their everyday peers.

Don't forget good saves and the ability to vanish in wilderness (and the dungeon to a lesser extent) makes them hard to kill. A good choice for players who get attached to their guys, as halflings are the most likely to escape from a TPK.

Selling magical valuables should never be a simple transaction in a shop.

The question of what something is actually worth isn't important. Remember that the value of something isn't inherent to the object. It's what someone somewhere is willing to pay.

If you have magical loots, but you're in some village in the middle of nowhere where nobody has more than 10 gp on them, then you can't realistically sell it.

Even if you have a magical item fit for a king, the only one who could possibly buy it is a king. Trying to sell something to the king can be an adventure in and of itself. Perhaps the treasury is somewhat tied up at the moment. Perhaps the king decides it's time to increase taxes on wealthy adventurers to do their patriotic duty. Perhaps the king offers to pay in land or title. There's no limit to the possibilities.

Of course, now that you've sold this kingdom some magical loots, you've also changed the balance of power in this part of the world. Enjoy seeing the consequences, both good and bad that develop.

>realistically
Opinion discarded.

Yeah, but that's annoying when the players just want to know how much experience they get so they can move with the actual game. Real economy doesn't really work anyway, if someone asks the PCs how much money they want for a treasure, they will always answer "enough to get us to the next level".

>Trying to sell something to the king can be an adventure
This is definitely the best way.

>they will always answer "enough to get us to the next level".
>not "enough to bump us up two levels"

Your players have no ambition. Shaking my head.

"Bigbys Hand of Jerking is not a spell for hedge mages old man." - Wandering Swordsman

"You slut." - Barbarian travelling companion

>consequences, both good and bad that develop

This, gentle anons is always the correct answer.

But a PC cannot level up more than once in a session.

>obvious ancient barbarian tombs, guarded by the dead,
Spruce it up. Guarded by the dead, but not the unread.

Corpses and Traps everywhere, but the only monsters are visitors.

>what else are they going to find?
Spooky atelier.
Snowed in merchants.
Goblins that blew in *on* the blizzard.
Ever-burning flame.
Snow blindness.
The Donner Party.
Ghosts with hypothermia.

Where can I find information about Pahvelorn?

>dead, but not unread
I can still hear the theme song in my head

Continuing my notes on the Summoner OSR class from last thread.

Are the entities below a) too overpowered for a level 1-character to summon for 1-6 hours per day, b) interesting enough to summon, and c) descriptive enough to be interesting?

Please bear in mind that your level 1 caster gets 2 entities and can summon one at a time, your level max caster gets up to 10 (but can only summon 4 at a time), and that the entities you get are randomly rolled on a d100 table.

ntities have 10 Attack, 10 Defense, and 10 HP unless otherwise noted. They automatically Save against magic and magic-like effects unless the caster knows their true name, in which case they automatically fail. If an Entity is reduced to 0 HP it vanishes, but it takes no permanent harm.

4. Rone, the Blade of Love

Enters silently and appears in your hand. A black dagger of stone and grey leather. Cannot speak or see, but can hear very, very well. Creatures injured by Rone feel no pain, only a curious sensation of pressure. If you hold it like a pen and use blood as ink, Rone will write the answers to any questions you ask, provided it has overheard the answers since you summoned it. It could transcribe a conversation in prefect detail or tell you how many people entered a room, what they said, and when they left. If anyone holds Rone against the caster's will, they must Save or take 1d6 damage, and Rone vanishes. If anyone holds Rone with the caster's permission, they must Save. If they fail, each morning they must Save against the desire to hold Rone again.

11. Raspalan, the Urgent Guide
Enters by running in via a door or window. Appears as a thin human with a scraggly beard and no clothes other than sandals. Cannot stop running. Will lead the summoner to any destination they name, provided it can be reached by running at a breakneck pace and leaping over obstacles. Will attempt to warn the summoner of traps, monsters, jumps, spikes, and other hazards in time to allow a Save. If the summoner does not follow or falls behind, Raspalan will still run to the destination and then vanish when not observed. If trapped, manacled, or cornered, will come up with some means of escape that may also benefit the summoner. Cannot be persuaded to run into a battle, but often runs through them accidentally.

14. Quen, the Truculent Goat
Enters with a clatter of hooves. Appears as a six-legged grey goat. Has an Attack and Defense of 14. Loves to charge things. If Quen charges an enemy of 2 HD or less, the enemy is automatically knocked prone. Any gate or door less than 20' tall or wide and not protected by magic that is charged by Quen bursts open on a hit. Quen prefers to charge targets taller than it, targets with horns, or targets that look cheerful. If no targets are designated by the summoner, it has a 50% chance of charging a random target each hour.

16. Doron, the Shield of the Righteous
Enters with a small thunderclap. Appears as a round shield of brass engraved with tightly packed combatants. Can be carried by anyone as a shield (+1 Defense). If you "sunder" the shield (reducing incoming damage by 1d12), Doron does not break, but instead reveals one of your sins or failings to all present in a disgusted tone. It will present your sins in the least charitable way possible. If you are attacked by an agent of the Authority (a paladin, an angel, etc.), Doron will still defend you but will reveal one sin every round.

You've got the Sheeple, right?

I do not have the sheeple.

Sheeple added.

Any good random tables for angels and/or demons?

youtube.com/watch?v=VmkySNDX4dU

Something that dies in effigy instead of the summoner might be neat.

>10 Attack, 10 Defense, and 10 HP unless otherwise noted.
It seems weird (but workable) for Rone. Pretty sure you should mention Doron doesn't fight though.
Or maybe not, but that would be preeeeeeeeetty~ gonzo.

Depends on where they are. I'm using our world as the backdrop setting circa 1640. Some halflings are your typical "git off muh land!" Hobbits, others are mystically inclined nomads, others are little bushwhackers.

I like the effigy idea. I figure "is a dagger" and "is a shield" kind overwrite the stats bit, but that's fair enough. I'll make it explicit.

Doesn't need to be that one, but I'd like to see a summon that enters by getting vomited up.

1e DMG

I've considered removing infravision from the abilities of demihuman races to necessitate the need for light sources in dungeons and to even out the disparity of humans vs nonhumans (to not have a need for racial class/level limits).

But then, if dwarves (or other subterranean races, like gnomes) can't see in the dark, how do they live underground? I like the idea of having a race of humanoids that live underground.

Perhaps they live in sections of the underground rife with bioluminescent fungi?

Son of a bitch, these threads move fast now.

>My only complaint is that his stuff is always so small. If love to see him do a proper sprawling megadungeon.
Didn't see anyone mentioning this in either thread, so: you really, really need to go back to Dyson's site and check out the MegaDelve.

Each dwarf is given a lantern as a coming of age rite, lit by the head of their clan. They must provide fuel and tend to that flame, creating a web of social connections, debts and favours amongst the clans as they struggle in the dark.

I too think infravision is a little too common.

>bioluminescent fungi
Yeah, and lamps, fires, etc.

>the dwarves mine coal and burn fuckloads of it for heat and light underground
>their chimneys vent on the surface far above, creating a smog-choked wasteland for miles around
>the elves are assmad

I've cribbed off DCC and made them luck battery hobbits.

Unassuming good luck charms

I like Kingdom Death too.

So hey, I wanted a Second opinion on something that happened in my game.
I play DCC and we are having fun, Today several of the characters almost died as expected but one was reduced to 2 Strength, I wasn't sure on how to run it, I didn't want to just say he was impossible to use anymore as he survived his odds, So I made him Paraplegic the player was Ok with it, but I wanted to know what do you guys think?

That sounds fine to me as long as it's a forced retirement or they're a Magic-User.

There's honestly no good reason why elves have infravision, other than "elves are fancy and magic"
It's one of the most arbitrary traits they're consistently given in D&D materials.

>There's honestly no good reason why elves have infravision
I agree with this, though I've kind of gotten used to elves seeing well at night.

>I've considered removing infravision from the abilities of demihuman races to necessitate the need for light sources in dungeons and to even out the disparity of humans vs nonhumans (to not have a need for racial class/level limits).
I don't know that infravision makes that big of a difference when it comes to class balance, as you're normally adventuring with folks who don't have it and who therefore require a light source. And if you're using the 14th level cap with B/X, the maximum levels for dwarves and elves are probably about right, though they admittedly get there too quickly. If you really want to balance out demihumans, playing around with the XP they require is the way to do it, though I approve of the aesthetics of ditching infravison.

>But then, if dwarves (or other subterranean races, like gnomes) can't see in the dark, how do they live underground?
Lamps.

They are a Cleric, So they are still useful to have around.

Find the cheesecake really tacky personally. Does it do a thing with lanterns?

They lose a lot more by it than a MU would.


Next campaign, or after they've cycled all party members 2 or 3 times, the paraplegic beggar who shows up outside the dungeon to sell heals will be a nice touch.

I've made them rabbit people. They live in burrows, farm, and ride giant snails along snail trails. They're fairly quiet, so their spoken language is done like a mix between semaphore or sign language. Their writing system is essentially morse code and is often called 'rabbit droppings' by the other races.

Is 2e OSR? If not, why not?

In a fit of nostalgia I ordered pic related on ebay and now I'm in the mood for old school. I can recite the CD almost word for word.

>Random d10 table request: what is the old man doing in this temple of evil?

What?

And a band of tiny snow elementals that are grey with dirt and dust (pic related) and need help returning to their natural state. Also desire to obtain the parties clean drinking water to help propagate.

>Is 2e OSR? If not, why not?

More or less. It's a little bit borderline, but it fits. Some other user's analysis in pic related.