What the fuck was their problem?

What the fuck was their problem?

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critical existence failure

Good question

Important to note that Chaos as we know it was not really known during the Great Crusade. Even Magnus only had a rudimentary knowledge of the true nature of the warp. So it would not have been anything directly obviously chaotic.

Another important point is that the Emperor was willing to accept alot of bullshit. Angron and Kurze are both fundamentally broken primarchs that Big E took along simply to use until their expiry date. Its clear he never intended to keep certain Primarchs in the long run but so long as they can kill and conquer he was okay with that.

Big E was also okay with a giant red mutant so if it was a mutation it would have to be really bad one

So I believe that indicates that they were either completely useless for his plans or they were doing things completely against the Emperor's wishes.

Some interesting ideas Ive heard in the past:

-Pacifist Primarch
-Primarch raised by xenos
-Primarch tried to start his own empire but got slapped down
-Primarch took over by an Enslaver

I don't have an exact source but one of the HH black books mentions a mind-controlling parasitic xenos race that took the strength of "an entire legion" to defeat, so that's probably where one of them ended up.

space teutoburg forest

they were incestous lesbians
true story, 430% fact

In my OCDONUTSTEEL take on the IInd, they were all the problems that hurt the White Scars' effectiveness taken up to 11, with a splash of the Ultramarines' love of colonization but little of the empire-building skill or hand for logistics.

The Imperial Rangers spread too thin, focused too much on helping the nomadic spacefaring technobarbarians they tithed from colonize planets, and the second their Primarch got the vaguest, most tantalizingly vague hint that their might be the uttermost slightest possibility that human life might exist outside the galaxy, he broke oath and fucked off to the galactic edge to muster his forces on a suicidal joyride across the intergalactic gulf just to satisfy his hyperautismal wanderlust.

They still manage to be kinda cool ubermarksmen and space marine woodsmen though.

A retribution fleet promptly tore the muster apart, but rumours of scattered survivors and elements who never made the muster surviving have required violent suppression.

Gonna do either Orphans of Betrayal or Outlanders Blackshields in 30k for them. Main colours emerald green with heraldry displayed in yellow or white. Legion icon is two crossed arrows.

Inferno covers a little bit more of the Rangdan Xenocide, talking about how entire Auxilia regiments and even astartes legions were lost.

Given that the biggest declassified Marine losses were 50,000 Dark Angels and there was a huge [Section Redacted] label, it's safe to say that one of the forgotten Legions were wiped.

Inferno was also important because it showed us that the standard for getting redacted isn't even anything as extreme as postulates. At the end of the book it stated that the Thousand Sons were going to get the Forgotten Legion treatment and it was only the Heresy and their role in the siege of Terra that put it off. Russ' Armour description and several other excerpts also show that particularly secretive and horrible campaigns were struck off the record too.

I believe Sanguinus in some HH book flips out because he thinks the red thirst will get his legion turned into the third missing one, implying it was mutation.

That said, i reckon the other two primarchs were simply the two that didn't bend the knee. Every other primarch either bowed down to the emperor or challenged him, lost and then bowed down. It would be possible to imagine the other two simply said "no and go fuck yourself". The Emperor's ego would not handle that well.

Lore wise, it's heavily implied one of the primarch died somehow, while the other went Chaos (to such a humiliating extend that they are practically erased from history).

It's heavily implied the Ultramarines absorbed both legions.

The actual reason is that GW wanted to give players some room to make their own lost legions n' shit.

In that situation I think it's less a point of ego and more a point of the primarchs being tools with a purpose, in the Emperor's mind. And if the tool won't fulfill its purpose, it only has the potential to interfere with The Plan, and for The Emperor, The Plan is absolutely everything.

Looking at what we know, and what others in this thread have said, it seems most likely that at least one was a Mutant of some kind (probably the ones referred to as The Purged). Looking at other Primarchs, this was unlikely to be the reason for their purging, but was probably the one the other Primarchs were told.
Most likely, they disobeyed the Emperor in such a dire fashion that he had no choice, cause to be fair, he does give out a lot of chances.

Where is it implied? I know some of the later HH books imply that the yiffs had something to do with their demise but specifics are never mentioned

You just described someone with megalomania. He made the plan, the plan isnt some higher cause, he is the highest cause in his own mind because the only thing he thinks matters is an idea he had.

...

Do you like it? I hope you like it.

You've got a point. But I guess if I had a counterpoint, it would be that The Emperor has faculties such that The Plan is probably the most viable path for humanity, but I mean that's one of the main arguments of the setting. I guess it boils down to which spacemen you like better.

My guess would be a navigator Primarch and a "nope, fuck this, I'm out" Primarch.

WH40k wiki.

I am a collegefag, I don't have time to buy or download the books

This doesn't make sense other primarch fell into Chaos in a very humiliating way

Srly nowadays it makes no sense these two got erased from history, not even if they hand chaotic orgies with xenos and themselves while cosplaying as animoo characters and and buttfucking effigies of the Emperor

they were female primarchs

Well there is a major difference between chaos legions and the missing two: the former are still around. It would be stupid to erase what you know of your enemies. The missing legions being forever gone this isn't an issue.

> "TREMBLE! I'm a Naraxas, the butcher of Idriana IV!"
> "Who?"
> "Oh come on, I was even on the siege of Terra!"
> "Wait, let me see.... nope, got nothing."
> "The sack of Glory Helm? The pyre of Archduke Virinov? The infernal march on Gegodar?"
> "I'm really sorry, but I can't seem to find any of that."
> "Fuck you imperials, I worked hard on those. Well, prepare to be [REDACTED] then."

None of the above. GW created a mystery too big to fill.

Except that in-universe the traitor legions are wiped and your standard citizen doesn't know about them.
Depends on the publication though. The whole of Armageddon was sterilized and imprisoned to keep daemon primarch Angron secret

It would make sense for them to have objected to the Great Crusade and Monarchy on ideological grounds. It was always a bit weird that the Primarchs come from such diverse cultures, some of them democratic to greater or lesser degrees, but apart from Angron they seem completely unfazed by Imperialism.

In a way it might make more sense to suppress that than Primarch's falling to chaos. As an idea, falling to ambiguous and mind-altering dark forces is less threatening to Imperial power than rational, intelligent beings having had good arguements that what you're doing it wrong.

I like the Idea, that one of the Legions are a Chaos Legion of the Imperial God of Unbelief, even I am not sure how the would look like.

Sorry for typos, too lazy to correct spelling.
There's a pic of Malcador sitting on a thtone with the missing primarch skulls. Anyone thing those are their real skulls or just decorative?

They look too small to be Primarch skulls

II ended up falling into a Warp rift a second time and got adopted by Bird People after a space dragon killed the second pair of adoptive parents. Emps gave up trying to get her back.

XI knew EXACTLY what Chaos was and hated it SO MUCH that it risked making Malal canon again.

Goddamn i hate this meme yet i love it so

>Primarch raised by xenos
I dig the idea of the Emperor killing Supereldar. Seems douchebag enough for him.

One legion suffered from egregious mutations.
The other legion was full of xeno sympathizers.

Like, what else could it possibly be?

I remember someone mentioned a xeno species that was composed of worms, and they could possess or assimilate humans with these worms.

It might not even be that one or both of these legions were traitors, maybe they were massacred or even converted by xenos, and the shame/horror of the event warranted complete redaction.

It most likely wasn't those worms things that did it though; it seems the Rangdan xenos were completely wiped out, so expunging records of them wouldn't be a big deal.

One of them was too good at their job and wound up with some strange xenosplicing

>egregious mutations.

The 1ksons nearly died before Magnus because of mutations and they weren't in any danger of being REDACTED.

Given how the 2nd and 11th Legions specifically existed to refer to the Roman Legions that were lost during the battle of Teutorborg Forest, my guess is that the 2nd and 11th were simply wiped out. There have been mentions of Primarchs nearly dying before in the Great Crusade, such as Horus and the Emperor repeatedly saving one another's lives.

The Great Crusade had a great deal of deadly and dangerous opponents, exotic xenos species, and so on. It's quite likely that those two Legions were simply wiped out, and the Imperium tacitly agreed to never speak of them again for the sake of morale.

Members of the missing legions are in the Eye.

>they weren't in any danger of being REDACTED.
Big E explicitly warned the Big Red Weenie if he ever messed with warp sorcery again he'd have him killed, his homeworld destroyed, and all mention of his Legion stricken from history.

Then he messed with warp sorcery again, and Russ very nearly made good on the Emperor's promise. But Tzeentchian madness stopped it at just the right moment and the larger issue of the Heresy made further damage control impossible.

Sanguinius sure feared the prospect.
In the case of the Thousand Sons (and Emperor's Children, I think), their mutations seemed to be dangerous to the individual, but not to humanity or the Emperor's visions.
I'm thinking this legion may have gone a little too post-human.

One might ask the same about birds.

What are birds?

They were two female Primarchs.

One was raised by bird people
Another one was sadly corrupted by chaos and turned into a purple winged monster

Get the fuck out. Don't discuss lore if you've only read wikis. You're also a double retard because you haven't downloaded books.

The Sons hid it though - they spent a lot of effort to hide their mutated members

There's also a bit in the Alpha Legion section of the HH book they're in that hints at "Disastrous" attempts of making soldiers from mutant stock.

Notable also is how much Sanguinus freaks out about his legion's mutant tendencies.

And as others have said, the loses of the 3 Rangdan Xenocides are implied to have been utterly monumental.

>they weren't in any danger of being REDACTED
actually

>The discovery of their lost master could not have come sooner for the Thousand Sons. Formed from Magnus's own gene-seed, the Legion was disposed toward psychic mutancy in disproportionate numbers; a circumstance the fledgling Imperium was ill equipped to handle. Deep factionalism divided those who recognized the benefit of stable mutations such as the so-called 'Navigator Gene' of the Navis Nobilite. The Navigator Houses' 'third eye' allowed them to steer a course through the Immaterium making warp travel possible, but some perceived the increasing and seemingly random nature of human mutation as a destructive internal threat. An entire Legion of potential mutants was seen as a dangerous development. The fifteenth Legion had suffered terribly from the spontaneous, uncontrolled manifestation of psychics amongst their ranks, and those who survived to receive training became amongst the most powerful librarians of the epoch. Many more did not.

>Moreover, the increasingly vocal anti-mutant 'witch hunting' crusades within the Imperium had seized upon the out-of-control Legion as evidence of the danger of psychic mutation. Cries that demanded purging the Imperium of psykers completely were not uncommon, and those directed at the remote and superhuman Space Marines of the Thousand Sons were among the most strident. Magnus came just in time to save the Legion from the threat of destruction.

If you weren't such an idiot you'd know that the thousands sons hid this from the emperor and mind wiped people that found out.

One obviously fell to Chaos. Its stated in Burning of Prospero that the Space Wolves have killed their brothers before. It doesnt state who so one possibility is that one or both fell to chaos early.

Even if not chaos then one building their own Empire prior to the Emperor reaching them and not submitting or building their own after and not giving over the conquered worlds to the Imperium as the other Primarchs did leading to a civil war.

Either way they were purged by the Space Wolves and the remnants being absorbed by the Ultramarines.

Not really any evidence of mutations.

> Meanwhile, Governor Watt Izname renamed his world [REDACTED], and have know peace ever since.

>One obviously fell to Chaos. Its stated in Burning of Prospero that the Space Wolves have killed their brothers before. It doesnt state who so one possibility is that one or both fell to chaos early.

That's a non-sequitur.

The lady is the lost Primarch of the Blood Ravens. Everybody thought it was Magnus, that the Ravens were just Thousand Sons loyalists but that's just what Tzeench wanted you to think.

Think about it.

>Bird theme, from bird xeno adoptive parents to bird xeno armor
>Steals everything that's not bolted down and several things that are to increase her arsenal
>Xeno bird space magic armor gives her detailed information on fucking everything she comes across, doesn't really care to share it (Knowledge is power, guard it well)
>Possible Psyker

The only reason the Magpies aren't Female Space Marines is because of Tzeench (Bird Magic) fuckery. It's the greatest con he ever conceived.

This makes me want to see Magnus and Samus at a bar, angrily grumbling over Tzeench conning them as they drink their sorrows away.

Even with all that, Big E sent Russ to haul Magnus back to Terra in chains, not kill him. Horus interfered and had Russ go all out.

>Not really any evidence of mutations.

You mean aside from that blurb about Sanguinius wanting to keep the Red Thirst a secret because another Legion got purged for mutations?

>caring at all about the 'missing' Legions when you know whatever nu-GW eventually puts out there will be retarded as fuck

Just abandon hope now. There hasn't been any good major new lore in over a decade. Everything new in the HH was stupid. The Newcrons were stupid. Ward Knights were stupid. The Beast was stupid. The Chilli Con Yncarne is stupid. The ebin Primarch happening is stupid. And the revelation of the 'missing' Legions will be stupid.

The only thing the Emperor couldn't accept: they were pacifists.

FW's Horus Heresy book 6&7 hint that one of them was wiped out in the "Ragandan Genocides"

possibly due to being mindcontrolled

Here is their problem. This is seriously the reason GW skipped the 2nd and 11th. It wasn't to create a mystery in the lore, it wasn't even to allow people to make their own first founding legions. Those are just explanations after the fact.

The REAL reason is this:

11 looks too much like II on those tiny models.

Yes user, "XI" looks exactly like "II".

The Rangda have been described as worse than the Tyranids and Necrons put together, and that the Imperium at its height with the Emperor in charge only just defeated them. So it's entirely possible.

It's implied in The First Heretic when the Gal Vorbak are shown the Emperor's Primarch Project labs.

Also the Wolves being the one's who wiped out at least one of the two is established as early as The Outcast Dead when a high ranking astropath remarks how Magnus fucked up big and how the Emperor will have no choice but to punish him. When another character asks what he means by that, the astropath simply states that "it means that the Wolves will be unleashed again".

The sixth book if I recall hints of catastrophic gen-seed failure possibly caused by rushing them out too fast.

The rangdan genocides as noted here, inovled both the rangdan and the slaugth.

It's also hinted that the only way the Emperor defeated the Rangda was by unleashing the C'Tan Void Dragon at them.

Don't think the Emperor's Children had any gene seed issues until Fabius Bile started fucking around with it. They had small numbers earlier but that was due to a ship crashing that had a bunch of gene stock on it (or sabotage) It took them a while to build their numbers back but it wasn't due to mutations

What the? How did he control The Dragon?!

Anyone remember the HH cover with The Sugilite sitting on a throne? It had the missing legions' numbers carved on it. And skulls. Could mean something...

not so, the emperor breaks the labyrinth of night, i think the similar name is coincidence

How many "labyrinth of the night" do you think there are in the Imperium? Also is the Omega Vault in the galactic north? Maybe that had something to do with it, wish we had more fluff on the Omega Vault

...

Is that a man of iron face at his feet?

There is no coincidence in 30k or 40k user.

Except when there are

I can recall thinking that a few names have been reused in 30k for things.

Yeah a lot of 40k systems are named after characters

not what I meant

According to the Red Books, it was hinted that one legion was lost before the Great Crusade exited the Solar System (I'm thinking it just performed poorly in the Unification Wars) while the second legion was lost during the Rangdan Xenocide - an event so awful that it cost the Dark Angels 50k marines and forced the Space Wolves to resort to space/time fuckery. The 2nd Primarch would be irrelevant in this context and might have been secretly subsumed into the Imperium, such as being integrated into the Custodes or Malcador's elite circle, while the 11th simply died.

They suffered from GW previously giving a fuck, encouraging people to create their own continuity using the setting merely as a source of inspiration for it, and wanting there to be blank places for people to insert their own fiction.

Considering how extremely rare space/time materium fractures occur in the franchise and how space/time shenanigans is a subject in the xenocides, its quite possible that it existed in multiple places or stretched out across the galactic plane ala the webway.

Or the alpha legion

No, but "11" does. This is the actual reason, both as to why two legions are missing and as to why it's those two.

>Big E was also okay with a giant red mutant

Which mutant is this?

Magnus, you dolt

EC had super-cancer at one point, Fabius was tasked with fixing it. IIRC hever found a cure (he has it himself) but found a way to prevent it from happening ever again.

There's already a Chaos god of atheism.

I was reading some Deathwatch material earlier, one of the adventure modules, and there was this paragraph.

>"Not far from the Word of Faith stands a much older site
>of worship. This nameless temple is a stark contrast to the
>struggling mission. It dates back to Haistand’s founding,
>representing the native religion. If the Auran’s command of
>low gothic was not evidence enough that they must once have
>been under the Imperium’s banner, the tribal altar erases any
>doubt. The frieze above the entrance features a weathered line
>of carved warriors. The spacing suggests that once the figures
>numbered twenty, although two of them have been defaced
>into only vague outlines. The warriors bear such distinctive
>features as a cyclopean eye on one and wings on another."

So complete is Imperial hatred of whatever they were that their vague visage has been scrubbed from the engravings above a forgotten temple that no longer truly knows the Emperor's word on some backwater shithole only recently rediscovered by the Imperium.

I always thought it was some bullshit that every primarch landed on an inhabitable, relatively tame world.

What if one of the Primarchs was simply never found? Maybe he landed in an ocean, or on a Death World, or perhaps was flung into the depths of space never to be found.

The two are also described as 'the forgotten and the purged', suggesting only one of them was killed by Russ.

But aren't the missing two known-of and already missing by the time of the HH?

Isn't Malal more the Type of Chaos against itself?

>or on a Death World

Some of them DID land on Death Worlds, remember? Russ comes to mind.

Chaos god of atheism was fantasy only AFAIR.
whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necoho

Didn't Sangie, Russ and the Lion all land on death worlds?

I was thinking something more like Catachan.

>Lemon had a wolf-mother to protect him.
>Sanguinius almost immediately found other humans.

Lion is a pretty good example. How the fuck did he survive as a wee babe in the forests of Caliban filled with monsters? I get that they mature fast, but it seems far-fetched.

the Lion was space Mowgli, the warp beasts shat their pant when he looked them in the (multifaceted) eye

Their mutation was more visable then detrimental, but having such a noticable difference brought too much unwanted attention.