What is the closest MTG has ever gotten to a completely unremovable permanent?

What's a tim?

...

>One card
lmao
Prog dies to tons of shit.

Ah, then yes, Norin can be removed by activated abilities, but you can always cast any spell with that ability on the stack.

This is the answer.

>What is the most unremovable permanent in MTG?

>These things that aren't permanents.

Sasuga, user.

Fade to antiquity or any exile enchantment removal

Fucking this. It's the only reason planeswalkers are so overpowered. You need to answer them or they can never be fixed.

To make a permanent truly unremovable, it needs protection from all colors or shroud so it can't be targetted, indestructible so it can't get killed by WoG effects, and it would still need a contingency effect if it would get bounced or exiled; like flickering or creating a token copy of itself.

And even with all of that, there's still probably a way to get around it somehow.

That works as long as it isn't a creature. A card that doesn't target and removes abilities can set still set up an technically unremovable creature to be removed.

Nah. Much simpler is a variant of "This permanent cannot leave play for any reason. This ability cannot be removed or altered by anything."

They would need to create a new ability for it so it remains on the battlefield no matter what.

>Warrior's Spirit: This permanent can only leave the battlefield if it dies.

>lose game
>have to leave card on table

???

Only thing devotion gods have is Indestructible. They're 100% vulnerable to everything that doesn't damage or destroy, including almost all the same things that kill Prog and tons more.

As for an actual answer, Aetherling with mana open is pretty much impossible to deal with other than with Split Second cards.

Honestly? any creature that you can pay to go back to your hand. All those 'hexproof', 'indestructible', 'protection' can just be killed with nukes.

>ITT: we make cards good with minor changes
Sigarda: pay G to regenerate. It just doesn't make sense that i can so easily be killed by normal damage.

Except it would have to follow MtG sentence structure and grammar. So, it would be a longer, more complicated version of that. Something like

>Hexproof
>Indestructible
>~ Can not have - 1/- 1 counters placed on it.
>~ Cannot be sacrificed
>~ Cannot be countered
>If ~ 'S toughness is reduced by any means, it gains that much toughness instead.
>If ~ Is exiled, return it to the battlefield at the begining beginning of the next end step.
> A clause that prevents it from being returned to your hand
> A clause that prevents it from being bounced to your library

And you still might be able to get rid of it somehow through niche interactions that I haven't thought of.

...

No, that's a completely different thing and stupid. You're being stupid. You're assuming hypothetical Magic abilities can be only abilities that are already printed on cards when they can be literally anything.

The thing is not hexproof or indestructible. It can have -1/-1 counters on it just fine, and its toughness can be reduced to zero. It just doesn't do anything. Effects and rules that would cause it to play, even ones that don't exist yet, will all just look at it and go "sorry, my bad" because the thing specifically, directly denies leaving play.

>Not calling it a pinger

>Effects and rules that would cause it to play

...cause it to LEAVE play

You will need on the battlefield:
1- Avacyn
2- Sigarda
3- archetype of endurance
4- Brisela
5- Gaddock teeg
6- Iona, chosing white.

So.. how do you guys kill them?

The real question is what combos would a "permanent" permanent enable?

Dies to Black Sun's Zenith

My favorite boardwipe of all time.
What this user said- Norin's probably the hardest all told since his ability removes him without any real cost. You'd just have to hold back an instant for an activated ability.

Merciless eviction

Shit nevermind

Gaddock teeg and Iona

I think the only way would be some sort of black creature that can give -x/-x for everyone.. do you know any?

I think there is one vampire that does that.

So...all this together results in what exactly?

Step by step?

You can't kill any of them

Yeah, that's the one i thought

use Jhoira of the Ghitu to suspend merciless eviction choosing creatures or evacuate

Play Ixidron

Or bane of the living

Oh man is that a bonds of mortality?

nevinyarls disk

Wurm doesn't kill Iona, who chose white.

Final Judgement is white though.

Kagemaro, First to Suffer with 10 cards in hand

yeah that would do it actually

Cleanest so far.

Massacre Wurm followed by Mutilate.

gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=247523&type=card

What stops -1/-1 effects if anything?

try again sweetie

No, I'm assuming that until WotC prints something with "Cannot leave play for any reason" then this hypothetical creature must follow established guidelines on abilities and effects.

Also, what's the point of having a creature with negative toughness? If this hypothetical creature had a bunch of - 1/- 1 counters on it, and was a - 10/- 10 creature, then when SBAs are checked, the game sees negative toughness, and says destroy that creature. So unless new rules are written for this creature, or a new card is printed with "Cannot be removed from play for any reason", we have to go with established precedent.

Can't play him with Iona out.

>white

Melira stops counters. Pretty sure nothing stops effects.

Is a 100% unremovable board even possible? There are way too many niche clears to cover them all.

...

Mirror Gallery and an Iona for each color.

all is dust xD

But most of the time they can't activate their emblems due to needing 4-5 turns of hitting their +1 without interruption to even get them.
The fact that two Gideons can do it does not mean the rest need to uptick over multiple turns while their opponent sits on their ass not attacking them at all, while also neither player actually winning the game in the meantime.
Emblems are fine. Emblems you get right out the gate are not.

There's plenty of hardlocks where if you dont' have an answer on the board already it's over. Curse of Exhaustion + Knowledge Pool for example.

If included Damping Matrix, Darksteel Forge, Leonin Abunas, Mirror Gallery, more Iona's on other colors, and several creature based anthems it'd be close.

You're pretty close. It would have to say, "If a spell of effect you don't control would cause Hatebear....", otherwise, you could cheese 4 unremovable creatures onto the battlefield too easily.

Nothing can escape an Overloaded Cyclonic Rift as far as I'm aware. I don't know of any cards with a 'cannot be returned to a player's hand' clause.

But it's already ridiculous enough for a game to progress to the previous boardstate anyway. It's just a card pool knowledge tester at best.

Well, Norin escapes Cyclonic Rift by default. Plus any other creature with instant flickering ability.

It's still removed from play. This thread is asking what's the most un-removable. If anything, Norin's the worst answer since he's constantly leaving play and is easily dealt with by activated abilities of Eldrazi Processors.

i worded it right the first time

fpbp

YOU ABSOLUTE MADMAN!

>Final Judgement is white
There are plenty of black "-x/-x to everything". You just needs to kill Gaddock

Dies to Humility/10

NOOOOOOOOOOO

You'll need a couple copies of Kiras hanging out with your Ionas for each color, otherwise you're open to Resounding Wave bouncing a key part of the lock.

>No "then shuffle your library"

Faithless Looting, discard Hatebear, stack my deck. Seems good.

"This card cannot be removed by state-based actions, or by spells or permanents your opponent controls."

Add Eidolon of Rhetoric/Rule of Law/Arcane Laboratory, Linvala Keeper of Silence, and Stony Silence/Null Rod then you can really get the ol' noggin joggin.

How many months have you been playing magic newfriend?

Well as long as it's a creature or artifact, say no more senpai.

Forgot my damn image like a dumbfuck

>completely unremovable

Cycle Decree of Pain
Cast Black Sun's Zenith for X=8

Emblems as a concept are fine. Emblems in terms of balance are not always fine. Either because of where the start point is compared to where you need to get, in tandem with how good the + is, or because some Emblems create scenarios that are much harder to fight back against than others. I'm down with Emblems that give you a huge boost, but I'm not okay with Emblems that say "lol, everybody else is fucked."

You could also exile it off the stack with Mindbreak Trap or the like.

I really wish they'd errata "For the rest of the game" effects like Stigma Lasher and Praetor's Counsel as emblems and print a few.

Turn it face down with ixidron
dies to humility
or take control of it

>X spell with Gaddock Teeg out

The quickest answer is Toxic Deluge

Honestly, most of the emblems are SLOWER than the walkers with non-emblem ultimates.
The final ability on almost all planeswalkers essentially says 'you have basically won the game if you manages to get this to go off', the tradeoff being that, of course, you're stuck hitting + abilities until then and if they're poked at all it delays it by at least one more turn, usually more (if they don't outright die). They're a slower, grindier version, instead of 'your hand is your deck' or 'here's a shitload of damage in one go' or 'here's a whole shitload of free things, I'm sure you can win with that'
And then they decide to put these effects in on shit that can just use it immediately, which is fucking retarded.
Now that I think about it, the reason Support was such a lackluster keyword was because until way late, it could put counters on planeswalkers. Then they axed it and didn't want to rebalance everything else, so we got Yet Another +1/+1 counter mechanic. While it made Support boring as shit, I shudder to think what would have happened with walkers going off that much quicker IN STANDARD never mind elsewhere.

No, you're wrong. If a card would read "can not be removed from play", then a toughness of - 10 would indeed trigger the destroy rule, which would then proceed to NOT move the card to the graveyard, since it can't leave its current zone.

It's been suggested to them. Repeatedly.
"We want to keep emblems as something special to planeswalkers."

>Gaddock Teeg out

I don't think so.

>Toxic Deluge

Gets stopped by Brisela

Still gets removed by sacrifice, mass exile, mass -X/-X and mass -1/-1 counters

wheres the one with commander?

Without special rules, SBAs would cause the game to be a draw, as the game tries to remove it, it cannot be removed, the game tries to remove it, it cannot be removed.

It needs special new rules to work, is all I was saying.

Also, can you block with a - 10/- 10 creature? What does it do? Why bother designing a card like this? What function does it have?

>card comes with a peel off back and a layer of adhesive underneath

>All those restrictions allow for only creatures with >3 cmc to be cast
Lol Craterhoof Behemoth gogo

this guy's one of them

Prodigal sorcerer was a "pinger" in the 90s m8

gary

>What is Damnation

That's the last one in the image, newfriend. Commander is the format formerly named EDH.