These three ships are all given the same mission: deliver one deluxe pizza (still warm or it's free) to a designated...

>40k
Pizza is stolen by feral undercrewmen

>Star Wars
Arrives first, but has gone cold and was reheated

>Star Trek
Pizza is generated fresh and hot on the spot when they finally do arrive after 12 seasons of hijinks, either by making one on the spot with the magic food machine, or by having kept the pizza preserved in the limbo of teleporter data

ISD wins this hands down. SW ships can cross the galaxy in hours unlike Imperium or ST ships.

>the ancient artefact your family has guarded for centuries is a pizza box

No matter how fast the Destroyer can travel the only ship to deliver the pizza still warm is the Mars-Class, though that is only because the pizza is now possesed by a Flamer of Tzeentch and spews mind breaking multicolored fire when the box is open. The Imperium then charges the family the cost of pizza (plus delivery) and enslaves the entire family line to the cruiser for the next 40 generations as they deal with the debt.

>centuries ago family is charged with guarding artefact delivered by Imperial starship
>must maintain vigil as imperial duty, as enforced by Arbites
>one day order pizza
>artefact opens, revealing your order
so that your forefathers holy duty might remain any meaning, you better enjoy that fucking pizza

>No matter how fast the Destroyer can travel the only ship to deliver the pizza still warm is the Mars-Class,

Nigga the Galaxy-class could just store the pizza in its transporter pattern buffer, preserving it in exactly the state it was beamed into the buffer with. It'll be fresh out of the oven when it reaches its destination.

Right but that's not the same pizza is it? Just a copy of the one the customers bought, classic teleportation conundrum of Star Trek

The better question is what would the pizzas loom like in their respective universes?

40K: massive, 12m in diameter, toped with only the finest ingredients from 10000 world's. Probably tastes like its a 10 year old donut

Star Wars: exotic ingredients, amazing taste QED flavor, but has pineapples.

Star Trek: served by hot babes but takes 12 seasons to get there

^^^^^^
This 100%

The only case where it doesn't is when warp based time travel gets involved.

>Requiring exits
There's been fluff of Imperial ships coming out in orbit of a planet. Granted, usually in the context of a very skilled navigator in an invasion fleet prioritizing surprise. IIRC, the Dark Angels once took the Rock out in orbit.

No, because there's no conundrum in Star Trek. It's the exact same object. There was an Enterprise episode dedicated where they even had a throwaway line from the inventor of the transporter himself (at least among humans) that it was a bitch to prove that the object that leaves the transporter beam is the same one as the one that enters it, but that they WERE finally able to prove it.

I think the specific technobabble that exists to handwave it away is "Heisenberg compensators" or something. Doesn't matter, the point is that it's the same pizza.

>The only case where it doesn't is when warp based time travel gets involved.

Which isn't something the Imperium can control and shouldn't be taken into account.

If we DO want to break out the time travel, it's worth pointing out that any Star Trek vessel capable of reaching warp 9.9 in the TOS scale (about warp 7.8716 in the TNG scale) is capable of accurate, controlled, reliable time travel, so they're perfectly capable of playing the same game and, as usual, play it better than the Imperium.

>Galaxy Far Far Away's size is never concretely laid down anywhere

It is if you're into the EU

Also, keep in mind there are hyperspace lanes that the navicomputers pick their paths on.

As you said, it takes an exceptional navigator. And that still leaves the problem that the Warp is expressly, fundamentally slower than hyperspace.

So the ISD wins unless time travel enters play. But if time travel enters play then it's on paper a tie between the Mars-class and the Galaxy-class, since both could theoretically end up back in time and then arrange for the pizza to be delivered at the appropriate juncture.

The difference is that the Mars-class might end up centuries in the past and have to then play a very long game during which any number of things might go wrong, whereas on-screen evidence suggests that the Galaxy-class is capable of targeting at least a specific time period ("mid 20th century" or "late 20th century"). Less time for stuff to go wrong.

Actually on-screen evidence is that they can target precise dates down to a matter of minute (the return trip in Trek IV, or the fact that after the end of "Assignment: Earth" they could return to their own home year without issue), but I'm feeling generous

well if there are no hiccups, battlecruiser, because warp is faster than hyperspace and hyperspace is faster than what ever the hell ST uses
but id say the star destroyer gets there first, because the battlecruiser has to make sure their gellar field is tuned absolutely perfect, as to make sure they dont get their balls ripped off by demons

The EU was decanonized, sadly, so instead I'm limiting myself to the eight live-action movies thus far. Even they, though, pretty firmly support the idea of the Galaxy Far Far Away being traversible in a matter of days, a week at most.

>because warp is faster than hyperspace

No it's not. It takes weeks or months or even years to traverse the Milky Way even assuming ideal Warp conditions. Hyperspace is far, far faster.

It was never truly canon in the first place, what with that wonky tier system.

Wait so if you can go back in time with battlecruisers, why didn't the Imperium ever try to go back in time to save the Emperor by warning him about Horus?

Warning him about Horus never works.

That would depend on your interpretation of the information given out by the creators versus the evidence given by the show. If the transporter only transports the information of the object in question then it would only be a copy of the pizza, if it transmits both the atoms of the pizza and the information of it's structural make up then yes that would be the same pizza. But going by that argument there wouldn't have been events when objects or people being transported were duplicated.

All is as the God-Emperor intended.

It's nigh-uncontrollable by anyone except daemons, CSM, the Ordo Chronos (if any of them are still alive), or the Legion of the Damned. Presumably the Chaos Gods are more powerful than the Ordo Chronos and LotD and could feasibly prevent them from stopping the Heresy.

Because you can't do it reliably. There is no machine or spell that lets you do it, it depends entirely on the whims of the Warp. I'm pretty sure it's outside the realm of even the Chaos Gods.

>if it transmits both the atoms of the pizza and the information of it's structural make up then yes that would be the same pizza.

Aaaand that's what it does, as confirmed by innumerable episodes.

>But going by that argument there wouldn't have been events when objects or people being transported were duplicated.

Sure there would, when the Heisenberg compensators malfunction.

>the Ordo Chronos

The Ordo Chronos can't actually control time travel and in fact does not even have access to time travel, though they would very much like to. Their main job is to track down folk from the distant past who have ended up in the future so as to learn more about how past stuff worked; or to track down folk from the future who have ended up in the past, in order to learn about what's going to happen. In either case the only way they can do so is what basically amounts to police investigation techniques.

Their theoretical end-goal is to get time travel so that they can travel back in time and stop the Horus Heresy, but they're a long, long ways off from that.

And that is just one of the many, many reasons we reached the conclusion a few months back that Carmen Sandiego could take on all of 40K with only a minimum of help from V.I.L.E.

You can't have your cake and eat it too man, either the atoms and the information are transported at the same time (which would solve the duplication issue because there wouldn't be any left over material to create objects from) or it's just the information (which would mean that it can run into issues with duplication as it simply uses material around to follow it's instructions).

Now the show has both told us that the first one is correct and had entire episodes about the second issue, I am going with the just information theory because of the evidence the show puts in front of us rather than the explanation they are telling us.

>You can't have your cake and eat it too man

You can in Star Trek. The show has consistently stated that it's the same object. The last episode to say anything about the matter was the Enterprise episode "Daedalus", which made it explicit.

>EMORY: People said it was unsafe, that it caused brain cancer, psychosis, and even sleep disorders. And then there was all that metaphysical chatter about whether or not the person who arrived after the transport was the same person who left, and not some weird copy.
>TUCKER: Which would make all of us copies.
>EMORY: I had to fight all of that nonsense, and I'm not going to tell you there weren't costs. I'm living proof of that, but I won. Mankind is better off. Makes everything I've fought for worthwhile.

Given that this is the most recent statement from a canon source, and that it's from a prequel series, I find it more reasonable to presume that the magic future technology that is transporters functions as Emory states BUT there are the potential for magic future problems that can create duplicates even though the matter transported is the same.

But it IS still the same person in either case.

>trusting "here's the borg hundreds of years before they're supposed to even exist because marketing said people want borg" Enterprise for canonicity

top jej

>I don't like an episode so it never happened waaaaaah someone call the waaaaaahbulance a bloo bloo bloo

You don't get to decide canon, CBS and Paramount do. Buy the IP Star Trek if you don't like it and then you can change it to your heart's content.

Until then, you don't have to like it - but you do have to accept it and find some way of dealing with it that doesn't involve whining.

CBS and Paramount have clearly acknowledged Enterprise as a failure, and have underlined that acknowledgement by jettisoning the universe entirely for the reboot films.

I concede the point to you in this because of Word of God from the creators. Going with the information we have on hand from all sources you've got the better point.

My own headcannon though will still be that they're transporting information. Star Trek is not immune to Occam's Razor and given the physical instances of the transporter fucking up I would find it far more believable the the Federation having discovered teleportation (one of the most useful technologies one can conceive), would want to utilize it as much as possible. They ran into the same concerns you outlined in your quotes and would more than likely not want to have to iron out all the legal ramifications or societal concerns about a machine that would effectively kill beings who stepped into it. Having a government simply shuffle off the real ways the machine works and say that it's the same being who enters as who is reconstructed would be easier than the numerous variations of magic that would require the process to error in the ways we have seen.

TLDR; The show tells us that it works one way and shows us it works the other, it's more believable that the show is lying to us than the chain of events that would lead to the process deviation.

>CBS and Paramount have clearly acknowledged Enterprise as a failure

That doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, given that their last major motion picture, Star Trek: Beyond, made a number of references to Enterprise. In fact the entire Kelvin timeline has been steeped in Enterrpise references, to Scotty referencing beaming "Admiral Archer's prize beagle" in the 2009 Trek along with the blue Starfleet uniforms seen on the USS Kelvin looked like updated Enterprise-era uniforms; to the model of the NX-01 on Admiral Marcus' desk in "Into Darness", to the design of the USS Franklin, the NX designation of the USS Franklin, the uniform designs of the USS Franklin, and Eddington being explicitly identified as a former MACO and outright giving the Xindi conflict (along with the Romulan War) as a major reason for his start of darkness.

Star Trek Online, as well - which CBS seems to have a high opinion of given that it's still going strong as a steady cash cow for CBS - keeps referencing Enterprise, having just finished an exapnsion built around the Temporal Cold War.

So, yeah, to reiterate: You're full of shit.

No, CBS and Paramount are full of shit.

Warp travel, even properly performed, takes months. It's mainly because Warhammer ships are based on the age of sail, and the difficulties and hardships of life in that setting.

Star Trek warp travel is rather fast, at least in the 24th century. It gets even more bullshit when you start bringing up transwarp and quantum slipstream shenanigans, but-

Hyperdrive is just bullshit. You can cross the entire galaxy in a few days with a .5 drive, if I recall correctly.

>it's more believable that the show is lying to us

That would require accepting the idea that the people who operate the transporters in the show have no idea how it works and instead make shit up that, frankly, seems like it would be a rather important point. Not to mention that your description of how the transporters work would be violently at odds with the tone of the series.

I find it far more believable that they work as stated and the glitches that happen, happen for reasons that neither you nor I can actually understand, because we're primitive 21st century humans looking at technology that is both centuries in advance of our own, and fictional to boot. It LOOKS like the transporters are merely sending information for the same reason that, say, a caveman seeing someone point a tube at a deer and then there's a loud crack and the deer dies would assume it must be because the tube used magic to call down thunder to kill the deer. But that's not what happened.

>Hunters takes place in another galaxy

Maybe they are, but they're also the IP holders so they get to decide what is and isn't canon, and you don't.

Again: you don't have to like it, but until that fact changes, you do have to accept it. Anything else is just whining.

Also...

>Having a government simply shuffle off the real ways the machine works and say that it's the same being who enters as who is reconstructed would be easier than the numerous variations of magic that would require the process to error in the ways we have seen.

This would require hundreds of thousands, or possibly millions, of both military and civilian transporter engineers over the course of several centuries to keep this secret.

I mean, there's "jet fuel can't melt steel beams", and then there's this. This is a frankly impossible conspiracy to believe, and taking that into account, Occam's Razor actually makes "we the viewer just don't fully understand the transporter" a far more reasonable explanation.

>the people who operate the transporters in the show have no idea how it works and instead make shit up

No, I am saying they know exactly how it works and instead of dealing with the can of worms it opens up they decided to lie to the society as a whole about how it operates so as the build more faith in their technology and grant it more widespread use.

And I am not even calling them wrong about it, the transporter is obviously one of the safest, most effective methods of transport they have access to, with the later shows saying that there had been only 2 or 3 transporter accidents in the last 20 years. But how exactly would the legal system treat a being that has been dematerialized into pure information and then reconstructed, and how much more of a hurdle would it have been to get people to fully trust the technology?

I don't have to accept anything at all, and disregarding failed works isn't whining.

You can gormlessly suck corporate cock all you like, user, but don't go around expecting others to help you lick the balls.

That would depend on how they are assembled, if done as assembly line work then you don't need the people making it to understand how it works, just how to put it together, same with the operators. The only people that they would need to keep quiet about it would be the scientists i who first created it and the ones who further research into it which becomes a much more manageable endeavor.

Literally all of the transport officers and science officers across the entire starfleet organization, plus civilian transport officers and scientists would have to be in on it. They're all aware of the mechanics and science behind it.

I don't want her delivering my Pizza. Once she gets there I just know a timer will start somewhere, counting down the time until the Pizza explodes, taking out the entire block with it.

That makes zero sense, that would be like having a pilot know how to construct an aircraft as a basic requirement of being a pilot. Sure they can tell you how it's supposed operate and the theories behind it but they wouldn't be able to tell you the equations and wiring necessary for making it.

Fuck it I'll order from Pizza Grots.

>That makes zero sense

And yet it is continuously demonstrated on-screen across every single Star Trek TV show. Hell, in many cases people who probably don't need to know how the transporter operates, still know how it operates - such as, for example, Spock and Picard.

A pilot needs to know how control surfaces and engines work to fly a plane.
If they have literally no idea how it works, they can't possibly use the thing outside of extremely specific, premade settings. Considering that they can single out individuals and items and use unique functions just through competence, they have to know the mechanics of its functions.

>Pizza Grots
>Not Battle Brothers' Pizza

But user, the sight of that body is clearly worth the sacrifice.

Look man, where else am I going to get a Squig lover's Deep Dish? Certainly not Slaanesh's Burgers and Orgies.

I'm not saying they don't know how it works, I am saying that you could sit an expert pilot down in a room with all the components to build a plane and they wouldn't know how to build a working plane. Maybe they could put together a Cessna but not a 747.

That doesn't matter though, because it's not the construction that's in question, but the actual mechanics of how it teleports things. Those mechanics have to be known to the operator to do anything outside of prebaked settings.

>Obviously not star trek since their ftl is slow as shit
I mean... FTL shit, but sure.

>Pizza is generated fresh and hot on the spot when they finally do arrive after 12 seasons of hijinks, either by making one on the spot with the magic food machine, or by having kept the pizza preserved in the limbo of teleporter data
I like this answer. Mainly because of the "12 seasons of hijinks". WTF was their mission again? "Wander around and poke shit with a stick and see what happens"?

"Yeah, but it's a real high-tech stick though, user"

live canon also includes the second Clone Wars TV show and the (currently running?) Rebels TV show

also technically EA is the only company who's currently licensed to publish video games in canon but i'm not exactly sure what that means for TOR or the Battlefront reboot exactly

They may not actually know, they could just have largely ignored the meta-physics and approach it as a widely accepted and institutionalized technology with powerful/ practical application.

>computers exist that are both fast and accurate enough to allow ships to come out of hyperspace in orbit over a specific planet, or even IN ATMOSPHERE, as we saw in Episode VII
That wasn't computers. That was Han eyeballing it, going "and we're gonna turn it off, riiiiight... now!"

Whatever the case, Star Trek wins because they have transwarp beaming, so they can just beam the pizza the distance immediately (Khan beams to Qo-noS from Earth, 90-112 light years away).

Rebels is still running, yes.

Thrawn showed up and has been making the heroes look like chumps.

He knew his location due to an extremely accurate computer. All you see in hyperspace is hyperspace.

>because they have transwarp beaming

Not on a Galaxy-class ship they don't...

However you forget in star trek you can't shake a stick without hitting some kind of anomaly that you must then spend a week investigating so that only in the last 10 minutes try something stupid. That somehow works and saves your ship.

>There are various competing secondary sources as to exactly how long, but none of them posit that a Star Destroyer would take longer than a week to get from one side of the Galaxy to another

In one of the The New Jedi Order novel it noted that the time for a pair of Star Destroyers to cross a about 3/4 of the length of the Galaxy to be just under a month. Keep in mind that a lot of the novels follow event on the millennium falcon or other small ships with a .5 drive. These move when in FTL at four times the speed of a Star Destroyer with a 2x drive.

Still WAY faster than the other two.

>Travel via Warp, assuming a "stable" journey, is much slower than Hyperspace travel. Even assuming no wibbly-wobbly shenanigans, it takes months or even years to cross the Milky Way.

Best case of about six months for a ship made for long trips in the Warp with a high skilled navigator, even then that is a best case. Via bulk freight it would be on the order of 4 to 7 years to make that trip.

(40K) Warp travel for a standard Imperial warp drive found on Crusier or above designs, galaxy edge to galaxy edge is a year assuming a calm and uneventful journey. Which is most the time by a vast margin, stupid memes aside.
Marines, Ecclesiarchy, Ad-Mech, Grey Knights and a few others dish up the money or have enough clout to get better, larger drives that will half, or even quarter this time at the cost of sacrificing a fair amount of internal space.

Orks are variable but mostly twice as slow.

Tau used to 'Warp skim' where they partially enter the Warp before dropping back out. This is three times as slow. e.g three years edge to edge
Now they have no FTL because GW literally hasn't a single clue about distances in space.

Eldar have the Webway. Know where you're going and you could do edge to edge in probably a month or less.
Don't know and you'll get lost for a century before getting stuck at an exit to small to fit through that's a system over from where you left in the wrong direction and has been sealed shut anyway to stop daemons getting in.
And there will be a Harlequin troope waiting there asking for the toll.

>> remaining in respective universe

Mars class wins thanks to stasis fields and precognition.
Doesn't matter how long the trip takes if you can time your arrival to deliver as soon as they've ordered.

youtube.com/watch?v=owPC60Ue0BE

just make infinite pizzas better than any biological could make.

and get there faster than everyone else

Because every time they do, every goes "Horus betray his father the Immortal Emperor? You DO know he's the Warmaster right? Selected ahead of his brothers, who are ALL Primarchs to lead THE crusade? Ring any bells? HEY EVERYBODY, THIS GUY SAID HORUS IS GOING TO BETRAY THE EMPEROR WHAT A MAROON! BWAHAHAHAHAHA"