/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Now there's a pupper who needs to and will be fixed

Toreador. It's part of why they are the way they are, stupid and vain.

They couldn't do it at all like Bloodlines, not with the necessary ensemble cast that it'd require to make a VtM TV show work. It could work with a similar focus, Camarilla neonates being brought in for their Accounting and going on from there.

If most Cammie think Cain is a myth where do they think vampires came from?

If you want to focus on how alien they are you're going to focus on them considering themselves genderless.

Soon enough it's going to be misunderstood by the media and you'll have Kotaku headlines going

>trans character portrayed as inhuman monster by transphobic creators

MY NAME IS KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!

>Soon enough it's going to be misunderstood by the media and you'll have Kotaku headlines going
>trans character portrayed as inhuman monster by transphobic creators

Heh, they should look at Beast.

>trans/non-binary characters portrayed as inhuman monsters by "trans-supportive" creators

Not all Tzimisce even do that, and it's not like you have to go into any sort of discourse about preferred Fiend pronouns or what have you. And having a reasonably prominent sympathetic trans character would take off the vast majority of this hypothetical heat anyway.

The same isn't true for the Ravnos, sadly; I'm pretty sure there's no way to use them at all without it seeming racist. Thankfully, they were never remotely important as a clan to begin with.

Underestimating the Toreador is a good way to get completely blacklisted from your mortal social life.

Toreador above all else are the ones with TASTE. They might attract all the scene goths, maybe even ghoul them, but embrace? Fuck that.

It's Camarilla Toreador who have taste, mind you; Sabbat Toreador only see beauty in torture porn.

I agree that not all Tzimisce do that, just like not all Toreador are fart sniffers, not all Ventrue are Oxford pricks etc. but if you want to get down to the basics making them genderless is an easy way to get through to the audience how otherwordly they are.

>And having a reasonably prominent sympathetic trans character would take off the vast majority of this hypothetical heat anyway.

There just isn't a way of having a sympathetic Tzimisce character if you want to showcase their cool shit

I honestly hope they don't try to "fix" Red Talons in the new edition, especially if the Impergium is going to be a major plot point. Although there are an awful lot of retards on the OPP forums who think that they're too "hard" to play or that their character development is too "limited". Don't play them then you stupid faggots. Go play your human-loving Unicorn Lupus.

Some of my favorite characters have been Red Talons, and while I agree that you probably need to play a more progressive subset like the Whelp's Compromise to be able to have a decent character for the group, it does add a level of thought and a unique viewpoint to a party's dilemmas that you don't really get much of anywhere else.

>Underestimating the Toreador
You mean telling the truth about catty bitches, who are gonna be catty bitches about it? I'm fine with bitches being catty, honestly. Toreador players are creatures of sub-Gangrel intelligence.

>Mages always win.
But do they really? Are mages even good in white-room combat to begin with? They need to prepare all the damn time to do what they do.

Mage supremacy is more of a meme than an actuality.

Um, it's extremely possible to have a trans character who isn't Tzimisce at all. And I still say that gender ambiguity isn't even necessary; again, I point to Andrei, who seems pretty clearly masculine.

I can't tell whether or not you're a false flagger or a complete fucking idiot.

I know that, but please follow the conversation.

I'm saying that they'll want to easily get through how alien the Tzimisce is by having it be genderless, and then that's going to get spun into them making trans characters monsters, no matter how many positive trans characters they have.

I'd rather treat their tendency toward sexlessness as a byproduct than a cause or focal point of their alien presentation. They just don't care.

That's more just saying that the show creators would inevitably be total boneheads than saying that it's somehow difficult to do properly. I mean, you could well be right, but avoiding this problem isn't hard.

Given the way the genderfluids and the trannies make their entire lives about their presentation...

Yeah, V20 is good enough right?

>Some of my favorite characters have been Red Talons, and while I agree that you probably need to play a more progressive subset like the Whelp's Compromise to be able to have a decent character for the group, it does add a level of thought and a unique viewpoint to a party's dilemmas that you don't really get much of anywhere else.

I really wish I had guys like you want to play Red Talons instead of actual furry misanthropes who just want to roleplay murdering humans for barely-arguably-justified means.

It isn't, but you have to recall that they're pitching this to a studio of note, who'll inevitably dumb down the final product

Well, keep in mind too that the Tzimisce are likely to be expensive, special-effects-wise, so depending on the show's budget, it might try to avoid using them much.

Are they really?

Alien had a budget of $10 million and it has pretty good special effects, someone like Vykos or Andrei is like a 10th of that

Well, the full Tzimisce experience isn't just a Tzimisce; you'll also want to include szlachta and, ideally, a vozhd or two.

5 minute scenes, max

>you'll also want to include szlachta and, ideally, a vozhd or two.
Just pick couple guys at Walmart and give them better clothes?

I wish I had more opportunity to play them. It's thanks to those people that it's hard to convince new groups to let me play one, and most online places just flat-out say no.

We're talking about people capable of turning you into lawn furniture at a glance. Mages are incredibly potent and will most always win in any given combat situation, assuming it's not too outrageous.
Preparation is not a necessity except for perhaps the early stages of Ascension.

Really, why would you go up against something that could potentially turn you inside out by snapping their fingers? There's a reason why even the blood sorcerers of the Kindred fear the true wizards of humanity.
The only Clan that has (relatively) agreeable interactions with mages would be the Tzimisce, as they both have sour opinions of the Tremere would love to see them crumble.

The fae creatures of Dreaming are also close allies to the Awakened, or at least they were before reality started working against them both.

How much harder would this be to do than a klingon with claws?

>Really, why would you go up against something that could potentially turn you inside out by snapping their fingers?

>Implying that any dm would be stupid enough to allow the finger-snapping paradigm.

Depends how much they want to make him monstrous.

Vykos for example also has hundreds of mouths on his body which are constantly whispering- while it would certainly be memorable, it would be pretty expensive to not make the CGI seem silly

You realize finger snapping can be incorporated into any given Paradigm, right?

What does everyone think of Redemption? It hasn't aged that well and definitely feels dated, but I had fun playing it.

Story was pretty good, gameplay not so much

>The biggest problem the Shapeshifters have is they can't change

Oh what delicious irony!

Hung spells? Charms? Wonders? Surpassing Foci?
There are plenty of ways to snap your fingers and turn some unfortunate inside out.

This too

Combat system is atrocious, but you can easily cheeze it making any encounters a formality. Storyline is fine.
Bonus points for actually having portrayal of Josef Zvi, the only Nosferatu Prince in Europe.

I'm trying to get a VtES group together around here for weekly/monthly games if you're interested.

You can't do a Vampire show because the various other vampire shows have killed the genre. You might be able to get away with Werewolf but that would need alot of special effects and the whole thing has a kind of eco-terrorism vibe.

way too far from the old continent

Nah, a VtM show will find an audience. The courtly craziness andi ntrigue of Reign and Game of Thrones plus Vampires will go over well.

Different person, but V:tES? What's that?

And if they're capable, there's the whole dark humor thing that no other vampire show has tapped into (Vykos throwing his dick and balls at Hardestadt)

Vampire the Masquerade CCG, used to be called Jyhad when it first came out. It's complex as all get out though.

They won't do a Dark Ages based show. It won't have enough draw.

I don't doubt it could find an audience. But an network executive will take one look at it say "Vampires are played out" and dismiss the whole thing.

I go to Seattle for the annual tourny but it sucks only playing 10 or so games every year.
Lackey games just take too long and people only want to play when I'm in bed.

Depends on how they pitch it.

Worst setting by far would be a bunch of goth rave kids turned vampire in farmland America

Are you sure? It could tap the Game of Thrones crowd, and it's in a different setting than all the other, modern, vampire shows.

I'm not saying the exact same incident at the council of thorns, just have something similar in the modern world; old school fans will get the reference and for the new ones it would be absurd and funny

>We're talking about people capable of turning you into lawn furniture at a glance.

Indeed, the most shit thing about M20 is that it has a huge sidebar dedicated to making doing this really hard.

poorly, they are mostly catchers

How come we don't have a Vampire in the Wild West setting? Is it because there's werewolves everywhere and it's difficult to find a place to hide from the sun?

I guess you could have Gangrel running around, but again the problem with the high population of garou.

VtM has lots of stuff which other shows don't, capitalize on that

VtM itself is different enough from the other vampire shows to be its own draw. They would have to focus on one or the other, and honestly, doing it in the modern world with a focus of 'learn about the world' (which means rank newbs who have no experience can get into it directly) is easier, less overhead, and doesn't require WoD grognards to prop it up.

Pretty much what said. I'd say VtES is more complicated than Magic but only by virtue of being multiplayer.

If the modern show is popular enough I don't see why they couldn't do a medieval or (most likely) Victorian one

>I'd say VtES is more complicated than Magic
No Stack and more importantly no Layers make it considerably more simple than M:tG in terms of game mechanics.

The reason so many shows are based on other things and spinoffs is that execs are morons that are not creative and wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them. But if you can explain to them that it was popular in another country or already has an audience (which is why so many shows are American remakes of British shows) they don't need to use their imagination they just see dollar signs. Now the side effect of this is that they often then don't understand what made the original great and tend to meddle and ruin it.

put it quite succinctly actually.

I thought the stack got nixed? I haven't played Magic since Urza block though so I'm way out of it.

Hard? In terms of mechanics or via Paradigm? Because the ease of doing so depends entirely of your method.

Talons don't need fixing but they need the right game.

There's no point in having them in the game if you're running near a majorly human populated area. That's just not where they live and 90% of them will kill humans on sight for entering their territory.

That means you'll lose a few of the other tribes as options if you're letting a Red Talon join (although they're generally the pretty lame tribes anyway).

That and their last human stock they had were around when the Neanderthals were a thing.

Anyone willing to share Cursed Necropolis: Rio?

You literally have to make your elevator pitch something like
>It's Vampire Diaries meets Downtown Abbey
that might actually be able to get someones attention.

But a modern day show about goth subculture where there's actually vampires.That's not going to fly. Actually saying
>It's Blade but from the vampire's point of view
might work.

>No stack
derp, ignore me

Only for combat damage, it's still used for spells and ability resolution. And there's tons of new card types or re-hash of old types. No worse than Banding and Phasing, mind you.

is there a ritual of sacred rebirth in NWOD?

thinkin' about making the villains of a campaign be a cult of Firetouched that kidnap people, browbeat them continuously with lunacy until they go mad and/or become wolfblooded, then skin themselves and force the new mad wolfblooded into a first change.

puppers in space

>it's game of thrones but with more overt magic and vampires and in the modern world

His eyes are going to lit up at the first four words

Masquerade wouldn't mesh well with Game of Thrones. It just wouldn't.

Something more like Damages or House of Cards would make more sense because they're about politicking and backstabbing

Both, sorta.

In what way?

You've got the Sabbat, the Camarilla, the anarchs, the four independents clans and the Inconnu.

In a given city you have scheming among the primogen in order to unseat the prince, dealings with independent clans and maybe even sabbat.

The Sabbat itself has the conspiracy-within-conspiracy which is the True Black Hand.

Add to this the eternal Jyhad and the Kuei-Jin and you've got a recipe for a second generation GoT

Game of Thrones was written with realism in mind in a explicitly low-magic setting.

Trying to lace it with bullshit ridiculous 90s pulp fiction is just fucking insulting and it wouldn't even feel Westeros anymore.

>Game of Thrones was written with realism in mind
Did anybody tell the makers of TV series?

Hey vampfags,

I bought V20 back when it first came out, and it came as two separate books. I hated that, especially when W20 came out in one book. I hear the newer printings though are all in one big-ass book. Is this true?

It's really not that hard at all. M20 even gives you an example of a witch turning a person into a frog by just looking at him, in comparison to the scientist who works for hours building a ray gun.

And the vampires are nothing more than mob bosses unless they're using disciplines.

It's not like they're making a Gehenna show

The Sabbat work better as a ravening horde. A bunch of crazed barbarian zealots that have no respect for the traditions and if they had their way would bring the whole Masquerade crashing down.

Now this allows you to introduce the Sabbat point of view later giving signs that Gehena is approaching. Like Ravnos awakening. Hell make one of the characters a 14th or 15th gen.

Well my point was, VtES gets a bad rap for being complicated when it's actually fairly simple once you learn the basics. It feels complicated because you have to deal with what four other players are doing until you reach the heads up, whereas Magic is just 1v1 the whole game.

The show started losing its realism mid-season 4.

The worst offender is the disregard for the geography of the world. People keep teleporting hundreds of miles in days for some reason.

GoT is just 2010s pulp fiction, look in your heart you know it's true

>People keep teleporting hundreds of miles in days for some reason
I never got that impression. Just that they horribly paced it and never gave any indication that time was progressing.

Season 1 was supposed to take the better part of a year, yet it felt like it was a week or two, especially in the capital.

That's selling the Sabbat short though, and only decreases the fun and creativity of the show.

Make them be loveable backstabbing bastards instead, god knows everyone loves (to hate) a Ramsay Bolton

The novels don't take that long, however. The show itself seems to be stretched out.

I guess it's a good excuse for the actors growing up.

pls respond

If you try to shoehorn EVERYTHING into the 'focus' of a VtM TV show you will end up with shit stew. You have to aim for an acceptable and approachable demographic, which is going to count out the Sabbat and the Inconnu, the Anarchs aren't 'everyman' enough for modern audiences.

Nah, the worst offender is downplaying the actual damn characters.

They fucking butchered so many.