Which one of these three Interstellar Empires, at their height, is the strongest?

What is that one on the left?

Ships-wise the Imperium generally gets outmaneuvered (though some of the fluff has small ships performing sub-light dog-fights as well)

While has a point in that the Imperium regularly had multiples of its giant fuck-off ships and titans (i.e. Alpharius Omegon each got a Gloriana - Alpha and Beta. And Lorgar unveiled three of his big ones that he had secretly built over the last century or so. And here's where it could get interesting - production speed. While both can build massive things the Empire seems to do it rather quickly - they went from no Death Star to bye-bye Alderaan in like 20-ish years (maybe up to 50 if Ol`Palpy had secretly ordered parts of it started built during his Senate days) while it takes centuries of planning to build something like Angron's Conqueror.

My round-a-bout point is, I just wanna see a Star destroyer get impaled by the god-damned Ursus Claws. And then swing it into a swarm of whoever-the-third-faction-is's ships. Fireworks!

40K has nothing that can defeat Star Killer and the Death Stars.

The left side faction is the Galactic Empire from the Foundation series.

To keep it short
>Empire spanning the entire Milky Way Galaxy
>No xenos
>25 million inhabited worlds
>FTL travel

I'm leaning Imperium. While the superiority of their ships may be up for debate, when it comes to boarding actions, they would kick the shit out of the Empire. Space Marines > Stormtroopers and also they have teleportation technology, which to my knowledge the Empire does not.

I'm not up on my Necron lore: how does a World Engine compare to either?

The first death star was defeated by a bomb down the exhaust, the imperium could easily launch a few nukes at it at least.
As for star killer, exterminatus the planets crew then orbital bombardment to death. And since this is the imperium, they're retarded enough to probably destroy the local stars so it has no ammo for it's gun. That's if the imperium can blow up a sun, I'm not entirely sure if they can

A planet-sized anything that can be taken out by squads of shooty guys is an absolute joke.

Where does the Magog worldship fit in on this?

((assuming legends canon is what we are talking about))

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superweapon/Legends

The empire builds like 15 different planetoid scale or planetoid busting mega projects over the course of their 20 years in power, made several experimental super weapons that actually are better then their death star and were always improving their tech base steadily post-battle of endor while the imperium takes millenium to do the same.

Industry is a rollover simply due to the timescales involved and SW ftl is still a knockout punch on top of that.

Canon empire get shrekt though.

This more then anything.

Honestly, the production speed is a point, i have not thought about, but its actually very important. Despite I think that in overall Firepower the Imperium outdeal the Empire on nearly all Battlefields,
>Space Combat - Giant Ships with Lasers that can shot planets to kingdom come vs Pew Pew Starships
>Planetary Combat: Stormtroops vs. Space Marines, AT- Walkes against giant Titans etc.
i think we should also look into Sabotage Warfare and that stuff. The Imperium has some nice Stuff with the Offico Assasinarum, but how is it with the Empire?

Nothing to compare. The World Engine was destroyed by the C'tan that the Space Marine set free.

There is no pissed of Godling inside either the death star or the Star Killer.

Why are people sleeping on the Foundation Empire?

They have Warp drive, Disintegrators, Shields, and a population larger than both the Empire and Imperium

Not to mention they had weapons of unknown power, however we can surmise they're incredibly strong as even a decadent, decaying Imperial ship was able to obliterate a couple Terminus ships.

Most people never read Foundation and don't realize the Galactic Empire was the mold that Lucas and GW stole wholecloth from.

doesn't get brought often I guess. maybe you could enlighten us some more

The Galactic Empire was a political body that, at their height, controlled 25 million worlds and operated with technology that was considered magic to those who grew up in the dark ages following the Empire's collapse. Their capital was Trantor, an ecumenopolis of 1-3 trillion souls dedicated almost entirely to the bureaucracy of the Empire.

The foundation empire was doomed to fall apart though. that was their whole stchk.

Also it's up for debate if theyu would even have a larger population. Higher end depictions of the empire include something like 64ish?, million inhabited star systems while the imperium is generally considered to be over a million worlds under their control and their area of control is filled with hive worlds where humans are stuffed like sardines.

Personally I rather loved Asimov's Spacer series, where he posits the inevitability that with effectively unlimited resources and people exploiting them with machines you get some seriously wild situations, like a single man who owned an entire continent on some lush garden world.

Not enough people read the roots of where this stuff comes from. I smell a Seldon crisis on the horizon.

wow. sounds like 40k and SW really did just copy-pasta and tone it down somewhat.
So the Empire is mostly that but no bureaucracy/politics and more fantasy-focus, while the Imperiums is just sorta kinda toned down overall with the magic tech left in the Dark Age of Tech

Tell me it was bureaucracy that killed them off, that shit is just hilarious.

The Galactic Empire was an expy of the Roman Empire... So yes, it literally was a combination of weak emperors and bloated bureaucracy that killed them off.

Stagnation really did it in. That and since Trantor, the capital world, needed 10-15 farming worlds to feed it's population it fell to a siege pretty easily.

Orks win, they had attack moons and an attack planet.

What about the empire of Dundee?

I'm gonna give this one to Trantor. They have far better FTL systems and a larger manpower.

Despite their superweapons, the Imperial Remnant never managed to defeat the New Republic in the Legends canon.

The Imperium may have the edge on land combat, but in space they will find themselves outgun and outnumbered

to equalise the bets somehow lets assume that Zargothrax and the chaos wizards are on the side of Dundee and Angus.

>Neutrinocorphammership.webm

That thing was way too much goddam fun to play with, even if it did clearly destroy the entire game.

for more reference

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Empire_(Isaac_Asimov)

>The Imperium may have the edge on land combat

Do we even know what Trantor uses for land combat?

40k copied Dune, a very similar setting which even treats many of the same themes as Foundation, but from a completely different point of view and tone. The interesting part is that their conclusions are absolute polar opposites as well

Disintegrators

>wow. sounds like 40k and SW really did just copy-pasta and tone it down somewhat.

Dude, you have no idea. The comment made here about "technology that seems like magic" was an actual plot point in Foundation, when the Mayors of Terminus used their technological superiority to establish a "Tech Cult" that maintains the holy devices necessary for their bigger, stronger and frankly more barbaric neighbors to function and decide not to squash them.

The Regent of Anacreon tried to invade Terminus even with that threat, but his cause was labeled heresy and the tech priests on his battleships caused their engines to die and life support systems to flutter off due to the "blasphemy" he dared to impose on the holy planet. In the end, the Heir to the throne was horrified at the actions of his regent and tried to have him killed, though in the end he killed himself.

The Regent launched the attack during the heir's coronation ceremony, which involves a levitating throne which illuminates him in glorious divine light. When the regent launched his attack, the throne fell to the ground and the light ceased, horrifying the audience.

>that scene where Seldon's hologram shuts off right before the Mule completely conquers the Foundation

see
That being said since the Empire heavily relied on their navy it was assumed you wouldn't put boots on the ground until you bombarded the planet into submission.

>Empire heavily relied on their navy it was assumed you wouldn't put boots on the ground until you bombarded the planet into submission.

I distinctly recall a passage where they discuss the capabilities of the explicitly old, outdated Imperial frigate the Foundation fixed up for Anacreon, something that was immediately placed as the capital ship of the Anacreon fleet and treated in the book with the same heft and reverence you would for a dreadnought.

I might have the books around here somewhere for a better description, but it does say Imperial ships were exceedingly efficient at destroying garrisons or hostile ground forces through laser-based weaponry.

I gonna go with the Imperium of Mankind since it was very powerful during the great crusade, not suffering from stagnant technology, and I believe they had access to more Dark Agenof Technology era stuff which is OP af.

>The Seldon Plan no longer works

>Imperial ships were exceedingly efficient at destroying garrisons or hostile ground forces through laser-based weaponry.

Yep. I believe they bring it up again during Bel Riose's campaign against the Foundation where he takes over Ducem Barr's planet

>That scene in Nightfall where the biologist and the astronomer were discussing the theory that life could in fact arise on a planet with only one sun
>mfw they start debating how a planet that's shrouded in darkness half the time could possibly support life

>That scene in Prelude to Foundation where Seldon debates why the man with slanted eyes and yellow skin is called an Easterner and why blacks are called southerners.

I love how he made little references to real life

>half the thread
As much as I like Foundation and think it's a much better series than the other two, the Trantorian Galactic Empire doesn't stand a chance. Fusion power is the pinnacle of their technology, and they only half understand how it works by the time of Foundation (Although I suppose at their height they probably did). Things like direct use of nuclear weapons is considered horrifically taboo and practically unthinkable, as they're too destructive to be used. The amount of energy generation per ship is going to be tiny next to the other two settings, where they go full into bullshitium.

I'd say that the Galactic empire (SW) takes much more of it's inspiration from nazi germany. (human supremacist, supreme leader for life is the ultimate authority, a cult-like inner circle of power, snazzy uniforms, violent takeover) then the galactic empire(foundation series).

>Entered thread prepared for arguing.

>End up talking about setting insperation and how x influences y and the themes they share.

I am ok with this.

The man really did earn his title as one of the greats of science-fiction, if not the grandfather of science-fiction.

>mfw the slaves of Florina in The Currents of Time are noted as being among the lightest-skinned people in the Galaxy, and their aristocratic slave masters from Sark were dark-skinned and used casual racism to keep their blonde slaves in line.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that other Empire was talking the Foundation Galactic Empire, not the Starwars one.

Since everyone seems to be talking about Foundation and Isaac Asimov's works, I think everyone needs to read the following short story he made featuring a recurring character in Asimov's fiction.

multivax.com/last_question.html

All The Troubles of the World was an excellent one featuring Multivac, too. One of the few great examples of Artificial Intelligence that isn't shown as some insidious, evil force.

On second looking yeah, you're right. then again Nazi germany based a bunch of their style on the stuff Mussolini had pioneered dacades earlier which was in itself thematically based on Rome.

Owning a continent isnt that wild really in a empire of like 65 million planets

That and on average a planet only had a population between 1 million and 2 billion

Yeah, but in the Spacer stuff, there's a grand total of 51 worlds settled by humanity.

Meh, thought it be like he owned a solar system or an entire cluster or something

It's more than that. Caves of Steel mentions that the overall Spacer population is about 5.5 billion. With 50 spacer worlds, that averages out to about 110,000,000. We know that at the upper end, Aurora has about 200,000,000, and we have Solaria with a piddling 20,000. Still, if nobody has more than 200 mil, that means you can't have too many planets in the million range to keep that average up.

my mistake. I thought yu were referring to the point where the Empire has 25 million planets

Probably comments like yours would win

Size isn't everything

Still not weaponize Dyson Spheres.

youtube.com/watch?v=RjtFnWh53z0&t=139s&list=PLIIOUpOge0LtW77TNvgrWWu5OC3EOwqxQ&index=10

This video still gives me dakka boners.

game?

Starsector. fractalsoftworks.com/

Probably Star Wars Empire. Granted, in terms of actual strength they are far weaker, but their method of FTL travel is far superior to the Imperiums, and thus they could use hit and run tactics as much as they want without being caught.

How would the 3rd imperium from traveller compare to the others?

Blackstone Fortresses fit entire planet-busting and FLEET-busting arsenals into something the size of a small asteroid.

Planet-size ships aren't shit if something the size of Tasmania can destroy it from half a system away.

I don't want them to fight. I want them to be friends.
They aren't so different after all. I think they'd be great pals.

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You forget that the IoM has psykers, and at the height of its power 20 primarchs and THE EMPEROR.

During the GC teleportarium technology was far less rare, and since the Galactic Empire has no defense against it in space battles the Legions can teleport into their ships. How could the Empire defeat the an angry primarch and friends running around inside of their ship? How could they beat 20 angry primarchs, and the Emperor, running around inside the Death Star?

An interesting scenario is if the Imperium led by the Emperor/Primarchs at full power invade the SW Galaxy shortly before the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, when the galaxy is divided and the republic is weak.

Imperium at its height was definitely more powerful than the Star Wars Empire at its height.

I've never read the Foundation but they sound like they could seriously rival the Imperium. The Imperium has only about a million worlds under its control. I'd have to know what their space ships were like, but honestly they sound like they could beat the Imperium on the ground. Shit I mean modern day armies could beat the Imperium on the ground we weren't drowned in a seemingly endless sea of bodies and get orbital bombardment a lot.

I would point out that in Star Wars the capability to kill a plantet was a big fucking deal. Ditto Star Trek. In the Imperium it just means it's Tuesday and they have half a dozen different ways to do it.

Dunno about imperium but dark ages of man seems to trounce the shit out of anything before or after.

>Time travel weapons and you can't deal with unruly robotic niggas.

The golden path issue you mean? Leto II thinking man had to be diffused and divided, Imperium thinking opposite? I rather like the very concept of the golden path as this arduous, horrifying, soul-crushing and despairing challenge that perhaps even the Emperor foresaw would require the Horus heresy, his fall, corpse-like state and the decay of his empire into this superstitious antithesis of what he wanted.

Martyrdom and a quick death is easy.

>what are cyclonic torpedoes

Hi guys can we come in and play?

A moon/planet sized anything that can be taken out by a single fighter is a joke

Exterminatus is a seriously big deal in 40k.

This is one of my favorite vidya game cutscenes, especially because they treat Exterminatus as a big deal.

youtube.com/watch?v=NNc242mbiUs

Yes it is a big deal but it's something that happens semi-regularly and they have multiple methods of doing it. How long do you think the Empire or the Federation would keep fighting when the Imperium started waxing planets en mass? Same logic that put down the Japs would win any conflict between these parties for the Imperium. .

>Same logic that put down the Japs
>the bombs are what caused the surrender meme
Please go and stay go.

>I don't want them to fight. I want them to be friends.

The Galactic Empire in Asimov's fiction couldn't possibly be more opposed to the sort of hegemony imposed by the Galactic Empire or Imperium, they're autocratic and have vague totalitarian undertones in their dealings with other planets and that's where the comparisons end.

>I'd have to know what their space ships were like, but honestly they sound like they could beat the Imperium on the ground.

The details on exactly what an Imperial ship from Foundation were capable of is vague and nebulous and ultimately tied to the power levels you'd expect from a work of 1950s science-fiction, but points out that an old, outdated and frankly kind of busted Imperial frigate is worthy of being the much-feared capital ship of a fleet during the Galactic Dark Ages, ships which as noted are built around pacification, eradication and subjugation (that said, Bel Riose had a dozen Ships of the Line in his fleet, the last and greatest starship ever to be launched by the Empire.)

I'll bet on the Empire. The imperiums have better ships and larger overal military, but it's terribly disorganized and backward in tactics and logisctics. It'd be like Germany vs France in WW2 - the ability to concentrate forces and outmaneuver enemy trumps big armies and lots of tanks

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Theyd just wait for the winner and then negotiate trading and mining rights with him after wading through 50 GB of exel spreadsheets to check expected profits

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