>Characters in settings who the writers warp the world for

Sylvannas is literally bait for low-test fuckboys

Real men jack it to the Aspects.
All of them.

He's grown out his ponytail and now he's got his dad's sword. Seems like he's going Paladin.

Even Nozdormu?

She is also the ruler of my dreams.

In all honesty, their was no real second option
The horde was stuck with sylvanus because eveyone else was so underdeveloped
Expect sylvanus to get overthrown in a coop by the tauren pretty soon

Could we get an MMO where you can just play as the bad guys?

I'm getting real tired of the WoW-spawned Grey Faction vs Gray Faction.

Like if I had the freedom of tabletop I would have LOVED to try and climb the ranks of the Legion. Or try to supplant the Lich King. Or start a cult to the Void.

But I'm stuck playing second fiddle to a squad of politicking OCs when this is supposed to be a "Massively MULTIPLAYER" game.

Can you fuck off from Veeky Forums?

Warcraft is Meme Fantasy.

Both sides and all their major characters have been shat on since Kossak took over, only the sidest of side quest paths are worth anything anymore. I had more fun doing shipwrecked stuff or helping fucking farmers in Pandaland than any of the main plots except maybe Thunder King stuff.

If I ever get to run a Warcraft PnP it's gotta be super different, the only issue is a few of the side plots that were good did rely on the shity A and B plots of constant Legion escalation and faction war stupidity.

ESPECIALLY Norzdomu.

>destroy the capital he says
>city equivalent to orgrimmar gets erased out of existence
>orgrimmar has 2 glavie throwers break it's front door down and a cow that was a rogue NPC quest teaches everyone what it means to be a part of the Horde while human civilians are slaughtered in the streets/

>Theramore
>equivalent of Orgrimmar

Look at where it is on the map. It's the equivalent of Stonard.

>alternate history campaign

Alright, we can make this thread work. What's your point of divergence?

>founded at the same time in lore
>had a shit ton of people who jaina rescued from lordaeron
>a major port

Just because blizzard forgot their own lore doesn't mean that everyone else has to. Theramore was strong enough to be an independent member of the alliance and was extremely important because it is where teh current alliance was formed.

Then blizzard blew it up because
>LE HIGH STAKES EPIK EXPLOSION

Then they did it again with the keep in the blasted lands which was something the old alliance had built together after the second war was over while the orc pile of rocks gets conveniently occupied and later liberated.

Not him but
>Arthas is left in the ashes of Stratholme
>realm is shaken because prince killed his biggest city
>moralfagging makes him be le ebil bad guy who actually had to make a hard decision.

Varian didn't do nearly enough before they killed him off. It was unsatisfying as hell when he went out, frustrating for lost potential, not for the emotional aspect you know?

>kingdom fractures into tiny bits over time as the scourge bides it's time and looks for another opening.
>unchecked by a powerful army the orcs start moving into alterac and fucking the local balance of power up.
>land descends into chaos over the next decade and the alliance begins to crumble.

As someone who is a horde Lifer and was for years part of a "Sylvanas' Secret Service" RP guild for Forsaken, I am well pleased to see the Dark Lady taking her place at the helm of the Orcish war machine.

That's why I've mostly switched to Heroes of the Storm. Arthas really does meet Kerrigan, and Sylvanas too. Varian is still alive. And Uther tells everyone not to think about it too much.

It's hard to say, I'm tempted to do a major divergence at the end of TFT with a few minor changes to TFT itself. Players responsible for trying to establish a unified resistance to the Scourge by factions that HATE each other or are just suspicious and seedy. (Forest Trolls, Elves, Ogres, Wildhammer dwarves, a trickle of Ironforge Dwarves and Stormwind humans trying to repay their debt to the north, expeditionary forces of theThorium Brotherhood oout for profit, ex-dark-horde mercenaries, Goblins, Arathor and Stromgarde, Lordaeron refugees in Hillsbrad, a slow returning trickle of Horde and Theramore forces.

Alternatively divergence at the end of Wrath or start of BC could work.

True, though Vol'jin got even less, both sides are just getting relentlessly fucked.

Shut the fuck up Kossak, I hope the morgues near you get new guards that turn you in instead of taking bribes.

The alliance in general is underdeveloped. Blizzard has had such a massive bias for the Horde.

I don't know who Kossak is, I'm Kaelzoroden, at least in regards to the Horde.

Kossak is the guy who is now in charge of writing WoW (And even before Metzen fully retired he had some control in Wrath and was head writer from Cataclysm on, hence the term "Kossaklysm" he waifus Sylvanus at her most evil and obsesses over the WC1&2 Horde evil.

Nah, they've got a massive bias against good stories, both sides get fucked a lot in favor of emulatind WC1 "Horde are Evil and Humans lose. (And no other alliance races matter)"

You're just arrows in her quiver, man! Can't you see you're being used?

You are a citizen of Lordaeron! Calia Menethil is your true and rightful queen! Try to remember!

That's funny, I had assumed that my citizenship expired when my living relatives and the city watch attacked me on sight. But then again, the Alliance's idea of helping their allies was "leave Silvermoon City to get overrun by the Scourge", so maybe that's just how the Alliance operates these days.

Can't say they've made a compelling case for my pledging allegiance to a bunch of traitorous breathers again.

Silvermoon wasn't in the Alliance for years by the time the Scourge destroyed it.

Was it not SILVERMOON that left you to die when your own prince betrayed you? Had Anasterian sent his armies to Lordaeron instead of hiding near his piddling Sunwell, you might still be breathing right now! The same elves whose ranger corps the Banshee once led left you to die, and you would have one of them for a ruler?

Moreover, Garithos mistreated the Dwarves under his command, and you didn't see King Magni join the Horde!

>Dindu Nuffin
>MMO Champion

Quel'thalas got invaded by Greenniggers yet I don't see the Blood Elves chimpingout over

I don't think having guards around would have stopped me from eating breakfast, so plagued grain still would have got me. Besides, I wouldn't trust Alliance guards anyway, they're in the pocket of the same guys who hired craftsmen to rebuild Stormwind, refused to pay them, and branded them as criminals.

That's because Blood Elves are too busy trying to find hair product, or figure out as-of-yet unused ways to spell Legolas or Sephiroth.

>the same guys who hired craftsmen to rebuild Stormwind, refused to pay them, and branded them as criminals.
They weren't paid because all parties involved, including the stonemason guild, was enthralled by Onyxia. Still more trustworthy than the faction that had a Dreadlord as a major figure

They did kill Queen Tiffin, start raiding trade routes, kidnap the king, and prepare to blow the city to smithereens, and all because a dragon convinced some stuffy nobles not to pay them.

I would totally play a wow pnp game focusing on being a part of The League of Explorers, going around with Brann Bronzebeard, going to old ruins like Ulduar. I think it'd be pretty cool.

Yeah, that would be good too.

I would also play that. Would everyone be rolling Dwarves?

different user here, but i'm pretty sure it had some humans and elves

Considering Brann had an adopted human son...

Star Wars: the Old Republic allows you to be downright evil if you play for the Empire. I rescued an NPC's sister from sex slavery (by buying her), then ordered said sister to fuck my entire crew while making the NPC watch. Dark Side is a hell of a drug.

I mean, the game had other flaws, but you could be pretty dastardly if you wanted to.

>thinking Lawful Stupid is grey.

Kosak is gone. He's working on Hearthstone now.

Wosre. They are trying to promote him into the office of High Emperor merely because of prophecy. The Alliance isn't an alliance anymore.

I don't really believe you, but if true I'm shocked they managed to find someone just as bad.

On the topic of alternate history Warcraft setting, what system would you use for that idea?

Anduin sees that the Horde is a faction of peace.

Forsaken did nothing wrong.

Gas the furries PVP now!

Didn't she give up her claim to the throne?

At the end of Wotlk, Arthas sues for peace instead of losing. The players get options out of Scourge, Horde and Alliance.

That requires the Lich King to not be Arthas.

Duh, Arthas was a terrible Lich king. He was always better as a death knight he was allowed to be friends with Keltuzad.

>He was always better as a death knight
This. Death knight Arthas was a pretty fun guy. Lich King Arthas was a generic evil overlord with a booming voice, whom I feel nothing towards.

Blizzard fucked up, when they took the "three" 'good' guy model of WC3 and turned it into a "two" 'good' guy model.

They could easily made up some allies for the Night Elves, allowing for a third faction to sit inbetween Horde and Alliance.

Also, making the Goblins a typical alliance was a mistake. Goblins should have been two factions, one more oriented towards altruistic goals allied to the Horde, and another more oriented towards 'CAPITALISM HO' to the Alliance. Because Humans and Dwarves have no problems cooperating with Goblins when there's enough gold involved.

Factions were a mistake. There should have never been factions at all.

That's... actually a fantastic call mate.

That way, Taurens could practically be Horde, but still hold significant diplomatic contact with the Night Elves.

Blood Elves could have friendly contacts with players that proven themselves to honour the old WC1/WC2 era Alliance, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, I agree Arthas dropped the ball as the
Lich King (out of character, silly plan). It's just that WC3 built up to Ner'zhul using Arthas for a body (or merging with him, it wasn't really sure back then) so him not being at least the Lich King's meat car would require rewriting WC3.

I agree. Always felt like that was a big step backwards after everyone joined forces against the Scourge.

The Forsaken should never have been a thing, either.

Are you fucking kidding me? The Forsaken are like one of the few things about WoW that I still enjoy to this day.

I'd lean towards 'Yes factions' but make it a bit more complex.

Make a good number of in-universe groups and let your character (If they are in good standing with them) count as that faction for player/NPC interaction. So factions will be allied/neutral/hate other factions and your interaction is based on which faction you represent.So a Warlock might not be ever able to be friendly with a Paladin Order but the Paladin and him could still party if they found a faction that they could both fly the colours of.

After all, they DID have faction opinion in the game to start. They just had Alliance/Horde standing over the top of it.

I think it could have worked with Arthas constantly fighting against the Lich King the entire time. And getting his ass beat lets him surrender and Bolvar becomes Lich King like normal. Ner'zhul should have never "died."

I agree
The forsaken are interesting, but they aren't conducive to an 'endgame' given their nature.
Since PC can roll them, they'res always going to have to justify their existence, which has contributed to the "Slyvanas doing whatever she wants even though it negatively effects everyone else" problem

The main cause for the Sylvanas problem is Blizzard being fucking retarded on writing stories.

Just imagine what Bethesda could do with WoW. Just think what Obsidian could do with WoW.

Blizzard just is incompetent.

The only thing they do well is sit on a game concept for 1000 years and polish it into a perfect addictive turd.

So once the Legion's out of the picture, how many seconds will it take for the Silver Hand and the Forsaken to go at it?

Because I don't really see those two coexisting next to each other unless forced to.

>Bethesda
>more competent
back to v lil boy

You're not very intelligent, are you? Bethesda's TES team is very competent at writing stories. Even that dumbed down piece of shit Skyrim had a deep and compelling story that stretched across all of Tamriel with big fat metaphysical themes attached.

>only know her through hots
>get a fun to play waifu with cool looking shit without any of the baggage

given how it goes in modern wow
Forsaken win, Silver Hand turns out to have been demons all along.

Is this bait?

>no arguments

No, user. You're bait.

Are you one of those asshole solo laners who don't ever help with team fights or objectives?

What? No, that's retarded.
She's just fun to clear lanes with really fast and then do other stuff.

Honestly, I'd say copy-edit from the beginning of time, cutting out a lot of the stupid shit, until the end of TFT and disregard everything else.
WoW started off stupid by saying the Horde and Alliance are outright enemies.

So, more or less what said.

I've thought about it, and I haven't found an easy solution. Anything DnD related would require a major rework, unless you wanted to just reskin it.
Other systems don't seem to match up with magic use.
Maybe something M&M?

Good. Those players are a blight.

I'd have the players be sent back because of time shenanigans to the very end of TFT.

Have someone sent along with them take on the Lich King mantle instead of Arthas while him and Illidian are duking it out.

Not him but she's fun in teamfights too. Tagging the entire enemy team with her DOT because the stand wouldn't stand still is always fun and Mind Control is my favourite ult in the game for making people miserable.

Wow, that's brutal

user, bethesda's story team is top tier.

I know that, it is just when some have tunnel vision on a single lane and do that for the entire game.