Flames of War General: Look I don't get paid to write funny names for the editions

Who or what is Sgt. York?

US AA tank that was aborted for a number of reasons, money was being slush funded all over the show, congress was getting narky about it not working, and mechanically it wasn't very good. Tended to pick up it's own guns on it's radar at high elevations.

a meme SPAAG

A new hero unit for The Great War expansion.

Phill pls, dot go around revealing things

What Virus said. A boondoggle that basically didn't work but if you pretend it did gives the US a Gepard equivalent.

so, Missile Armed T-64's are confirmed.

how do you think this is going to affect the long run of things? think we will see a 3rd soviet list-source book? and how bad ass do you think the bastion will actually be...wanna offer up some guess stats?

They could be AT40 but It won't matter because I know 3 things for a fact.

They have a shorter range than NATO ATGMs
They will only be able to fire stationary
You will only be able to have 3 in a unit line mine clearing devices

This will make them all but useless point sinks for WarPac in a game where they have to be constantly on the offensive to win.

It won't be Bastion because Bastion was for 100mm guns. It'll be Kobra. It's got about 50mm more pen than Shturm, so it'll be AT 23 or 24. If it is 24 and doesn't cost the earth, it'd be pretty meta-changing. One of the biggest things Leopards and Iron Maiden did was make it seriously hard to win a shootout with NATO MBTs, but putting them on 6s to glance immediately makes the soviet burst scary again. 6 live tanks means brits and germans go straight to a check.

>They have a shorter range than NATO ATGMs
Slightly longer than the ITOW, longer range than the Milan, marginally shorter than HOT. It should be 48" like all of them.

It doesn't matter in the long run because what we need as Soviet Players is an option beyond "Spam some more shit at the enemy". Also an end to the "Rules for thee not for me" attitude that currently infects sourcing for NATO V Warsaw Pact equipment that's leading them to get M1A1s when we can't get ERA.

Not being too confrontational, since I agree with a lot of this (especially the "no ERA" thing when the CIA documents covering it are public info now), but having a warsaw pact tank that actually wins shootouts with NATO tanks is going to be a BIG change from the past several months of "dash for flank shots or embrace death".

Doesn't ERA only effect side armour and then only against weak, short range AT weapons like the RPG and Carl Gustav? Sounds to me like you've already fucked up if you have to rely on such a situational piece of equipment.

Technically Chobham and BDD work the same way.

So why are you guys complaining about it then? You really should not be having your tanks flanked by HEAT(or any weapons) in the first place.

T-72s can win shoot outs with NATO MBTs, it's just that our Autoloaders are gimped to ROF1 which means that NATO outshoots us at 2-1 shots, which coupled with the hit on 3+ means that it's never a winnable prospect.

ERA should also increase your armour against Kinetic and HEAT rounds, but such is life, our super tank is nothing compared to a British Tank from twenty years ago.

ERA would be nice in case you ever needed to assault an enemy off an objective. BDD and especially Bazooka Skirts are too vulnerable to HEAT. Lining everything out in front of dug in infantry and trying to shoot them off an objective is not always conducive to winning a game in less than 3 hours.

You are going to have the same problem the SU-100 has. You need to be stationary to shoot the missile. A clever opponent is going to make sure his tanks are out of the missile range + 4". We'lol see what that range ends up being. I am thinking 36-40". Besides it seems like the shturm will be the cheaper option for heavy ATGMs. RoF 2 would actually make the T-64 scarier in firefights against NATO armor... ERA would have made it unique too, but you know...

>What if the new book has ERA for T-72's, but it's not modeled in miniature yet....

>Side armour for T-72 against HEAT goes from 12 to 16
>Now pay 2 more points per tank

Looking forward to it!

Considering ERA is plastered all over the front of tanks, this lol side armour thing is bollocks

These new Mid-War Plastics are fantastic. I wish these had been available when I started collecting 3 years ago.

Good work

They just want to make them the Cold war version of schurzen.

Where can I order the cheap Zvezda KTs? PSC seems to be out of stock

Maybe the warstore?

Only if he's American. If he's not, they'll ream him out on shipping.

Why not use the PIVADS instead?

Wonderland Models if you're UK based.

youtube.com/watch?v=uTGM1n8CYyQ

youtube.com/watch?v=GzOLRj4iNPg

rof 1

cheers

You take side hits in defensive fire and assault which you need to do to get infantry off objectives and/or kill atgms. ERA is to ungimp soviet tanks in assault given the presence of actually good LAWs in NATO now.

>T-72s can win shoot outs with NATO MBTs, it's just that our Autoloaders are gimped to ROF1 which means that NATO outshoots us at 2-1 shots, which coupled with the hit on 3+ means that it's never a winnable prospect.
Which is what I mean. Concealed NATO is 5+ to hit so you need three shots to hit on average. Most of NATO then glances on a 3-4 depending on range. Those big six-tank platoons, WITHOUT casualties, get an average of one kill, which Leos and Chieftains get two and two thirds to three and third depending on range. NATO usually shoots first.

Comparatively, an AT 24 missile bumps the kills up from six tanks to two, outright, which is a much fairer shootout.

It really should be 48", it's about the same as everyone else's missiles. NATO MBTs need to be within 40" to shoot at you, remember, so if they're not in range they're not helping their side either and you can focus on infantry or light vehicles.

Because it's not really a big change from the VADS and because it's not a relatively cheap way of annihilating BMP companies which is the gepard's true calling in life.

I own 6 Gepards and can confirm the table rises a few inches every time I see BMPs within 28".

>40 vs 48
How often do you play on tables sparse enough this matters?

Rarely, but it's factually wrong that NATO MBTs can sit within 4" of your max range and scoot out. NATO MBTs will have to sit in missile range if they want to play.

I got some M48s the other day, and I am today noticing a sort of light-grey crust over them. I've washed them already, so anyone know what gives?

They are growing ERA in preparation for use in Stripes, the ATGM should be next.

Cheers

The GLATGM should have a longer range than the NATO main guns; the whole point of having them was to give the Soviet MBTS a range equivalent or range edge against NATO MBTs.

It'll also be heat, so no +1 armor at range for the Wessies. I also think the 17 armor is very much worthwhile; it means against the Americans you are now no-selling their 105mm guns on a 3+ when you're over 16" and even against the Challenger and Leo II, your save chance goes up to a 4 glance/5+ outright bounce, while with a HEAT GLATGM you can negate their own armor buff from range.

And yes, you have to keep moving on the attack, but this means you can leapfrog your companies; one shoots, the other moves and shoots with the main gun. Means NATO can't (relatively) safely ignore the long-range threat of another company of MBTs.

The armour bonus isn't the important bit; the main thing is whether or not the missile's AT 24 or not. Auto-KOing tanks you hit makes you a threat at range, because at present you're just not.

Well, the AT-8 apparently has the same kind of AP (if not more) than the AT-6 from what I can find, so it very well might be a near auto-KO. Hoping for AT23/24.

Yep, it SHOULD be better than the Shturm. On the other hand, there's cheers to consider.

There's a World War 2 version of Team Yankee?

Definitely shouldn't be AT21; it's warhead is twice the weight of the Spandrel's.

You joke, but that's essentially the case, yes.

The soviets used sawdust as filler on their missile warheads making them appear larger and more powerful than they were. Party officials were told they contained effective explosive compounds, but production quotas meant corners had to be cut.

Cheers

> No match for Anglo tech from the 1960's.

You're damn right and don't forget it.

Seriously though the Chieftain needs a nerf, best thing is though by the time it gets one the Chally 1 will be out and the rage can continue.

THIS MOTHERFUCKER RIGHT HERE!!!

THIS!!!

ERA should be a front armor affecting rule.

i guess i'm too stuck on game-mechanic vs. reality, but you really do have a point.

...

I assumed ERA/Chobham on the front armour was taken into account when stating front armour, that's why it is 17/18 with the sides being thinner but still having an ERA package meaning against kinetic penetrators they are weak but HEAT makes the ERA/Chobham activate.

Still, I reckon the rule should have been lees schutzen and more like:

ERA
A Tank equipped with ERA Ignores a hit from a weapon with the HEAT special rule on the roll of a 3+. This roll can only be made once per game on the first hit from a weapon with the HEAT special rule.

Even though it is far from how ERA works in real life, I feel this rule far more accurately represents ERA in the context of a tabletop game. Might even run a few games with this home brew rule, only issue being keeping track of who has/hasn't used their ERA.

>A Tank equipped with ERA Ignores a hit from a weapon with the HEAT special rule on the roll of a 3+. This roll can only be made once per game on the first hit from a weapon with the HEAT special rule.
Nah; the odds of hitting the same spot repeatedly with HEAT rounds are miniscule. Hence why we have tandem HEAT instead of "learn to aim".

So make it a 5+ and make it unlimited use?

Yeah, something like that. Honestly side shots against basically everything should be autopen in the MBT era, but this'd fuck with how assaults work.

To be fair the human loader is quite a lot faster
I really think TY could have benefited from a dual armour system like Fistful of Tows has, with different vehicles having different levels of modifiers against KE and HEAT rounds, rather than what is basically a flat special rule that says
>HEAT AINT SHIT

but is a human loader faster under fire?

Id assume he would still be faster.
I think fatigue would be more of a factor than being under fire but its probably hard to implement that in a game of FoWs scale without it just slowing everything down, *maybe* it would work in a DHC7B-esque game but even then it might get tedious.

yeah but battlefront are trying to keep their game quick and easy to play.
Hell i rememer trying the 3 open fire starter and finding the game faster than anything else i had played, and team yankee is even faster than that.

Club is running a 1000pts game of Team Yankee with 500pts a side, 5 player per side (so 100pts each)
Table is massive, and packed with terrain (city setting with wooded outskirts) and I'm on the Warpac team and playing East Germans along with another player on my team. The other team has 3 US, 1 UK and 1 West German Player. What do you recommend I bring? (we are allowed proxies) Also I will be taking pics and uploading a report.

60 T-55s.

>Table packed with terrain
>60 T-55s
>4+ cross
> half of them can't make it into the woods
>other half are clogging up the way forward for the rest of the WarPac
>massive traffic jam holds up the rest of the advance
>Allied artillery starts pounding the writhing mass of WarPac armor.
>Cheers

I could only Imagine the amount of Salt., god forbid they all take BMP hordes.

>Even though it is far from how ERA works in real life, I feel this rule far more accurately represents ERA in the context of a tabletop game.

No. If you can't write simple rules that reflect to a large degree how things worked historically you should not be writing rules.

"Bu.. bu.. but it's a game!" is an excuse to simplify things down not make them work ahistorically in a game making pretense to being historical.

Except that TY is based on a fictional story, and isn't any more historical than Red Dawn, Red Storm Rising, or any of a host of other similar works of fiction. It sucks massively, but it does give Phil some leeway to CHEERS the entire Pact.

No. TY and those other stories while fictionalizing a conflict all tried to base the effects of the technology involved on the best knowledge of the time.

TY had M1 rounds bouncing off a T-62 for example.

>TY had M1 rounds bouncing off a T-62 for example.
Like I said, fiction.

Cheers.

> Red Thunder
> T-64's
> Yay another horde unit

Fuck me, when are we getting the T-80's. I don't want to have to buy 60 Soviet tanks to play a 100 point game.

I wish they would stop stringing this shit out.

Well, the T-64 with missiles will likely be the T-64B. So we're looking at a T-72A with a missile. So presumably it'll be a point more per tank, maybe 2 depending on the missile stats and skill level.

>60 Tanks

That's pure hyperbole.

Even assuming you're talking about the East German T-55, you won't be seeing 60 tanks on the table.

Hell, my own Soviet list has a grand total of maybe 30 vehicles, and that's *if* you count the jets and helicopters.

>TY had M1 rounds bouncing off a T-62 for example.

Really?

It's called exaggeration for dramatic effect.

The point stands, most people here agree the Soviets have a thin player base. BF needs to stop withholding the toys and give them an injection of alternative play styles other than 'drown them in corpses'.

Yeah it's about the middle of the story when they go on the attack and Bannon gets separated from the rest of the platoon when they overrun their objective and keep going.

Two buddies of mine started with mid-war FoW V4, one playing Afrika Korps, the other Brits.
I'm thinking of getting back into the game again but I don't like the Africa Front setting and find the Afrika Korps list a bit lacking. I'd love to get an Eastern Front mid-war Wehrmacht army but don't know how to build proper and legal list. Any ideas on how to do this?

Get a company of dudes, several panzer IIIs, some panzer IVs, armoured cars, anti-tank guns, and rocket spam. Should be good.

My initial plan was to use the Afrika Korps list and just leave the Tigers away and paint my dudes grey. But I couldn't field any halftracks and rockets...

Locally, we're using the Early/Late war conversion rules on the old North Africa and Eastern Front books, since converting things over to V4 using that is pretty straightforward.

The only tricky thing is the points values.
It's probably 15-18 V3 points per V4 point for Mid War.

it's an M1 not an M1A1. meaning it still got the british L7 105mm gun not the Rheinmetall 120mm

Never because the Soviets don't possess the same chronal displacer as NATO do

>That's pure hyperbole.

East-German 9. Panzer Division
From Volksarmee, page 11

T-55AM2 Panzer Bataillon HQ (p.12) - 1x T-55AM2 (1 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 8x T-55AM2 (12 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 8x T-55AM2 (12 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 8x T-55AM2 (12 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Bataillon HQ (p.12) - 1x T-55AM2 (1 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 8x T-55AM2 (12 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 8x T-55AM2 (12 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 6x T-55AM2 (8 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Bataillon HQ (p.12) - 1x T-55AM2 (1 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 7x T-55AM2 (10 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 7x T-55AM2 (10 pts)

T-55AM2 Panzer Kompanie (p.13) - 6x T-55AM2 (8 pts)

99 Points

69 T-55s, so cheers can fuck you both ways.

What in the goddamn fuck is this aberration? Who would commit such crimes against humanity?

Okay, so, let's talk about this because this list probably fucks over some guys pretty hard.

My friend's leopard 2 list, for example, has two platoons of Leo 2s and 1 marder platoon, plus the CO. These are basically the effective shots in the army, here, since gepards and luchs aren't doing anything to the front and you have nearly as many tanks as inches on the board so longways you can just make a wall of T-55s to prevent flank shots, or at least make them incredibly hard.

That company thus gets 84 effective shots per game, assuming 6 turns. Assuming no concealment they only hit with 56 of them, on average, meaning you've got 13 left, assuming you NEVER surround someone and plug him in the ass repeatedly.

>What in the goddamn fuck is this aberration?
>69 T-55s, so cheers can fuck you both ways.

One day someone is going to spend the $$ and turn up to an official BF tournie. I can not wait for that day.

Don't BF allow you to use PSC models at their tournaments?

It's not going to win the tournament but it's going to be 100% guaranteed to tank everyone it play's score.

But guys - it's not in the spirit of the game!

The spirit of the game is to bend yourself over the table so the NATO player can have his way with you.

i have 0 interest in playing TY on a tournament level. Mechanized Milan/spandrel memes and T-55 spam will pretty much ensure every game turns into a long slog since they didn't really put in a way to move infantry off and objective besides throwing buckets of dice at them.

Had an Afghansty player fail move my 4 stand Aufklärungs Zug off an objective. Now imagine Brit Mechanized or a full Soviet Mech company.

Imagine if it turned out that TY players are all just the tabletop gaming equivalent of healsluts.

>Over $1000 later...

If you want to do something like that, it's certainly your choice to do so.

I have no idea if it would actually be effective at all, but it would certainly have a strong "I'm facing HOW MANY tanks?!?!?" fear factor that would freak out some of your opponents.

I at least would suggest having some support options in there. At the very least some AA so you don't get massively cluster bombed out of existence.