/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>Question:
Anyone planning on playing a game of C20 now that it's out?

Not wholly sold on the premise. Would rather find a playgroup for lost

Does Hunter: The Vigil have something like the Innocent creed that Hunter: The Reckoning had?

The Talbot Group compact.

Can Space be used to make continental crossing portals like the Doctor Strange movie?

You mean those doors? Yeah.

How many dots required?

At least 4, I would say. Maybe just 3 with Reach.

Two. Co-Location is technically a 2-dot spell, although you can't do the portals properly without at least 3 Reach (one to make it visible, one to make it a 2-dimensional plane, and one to use Sympathy). You can still, however, take it as a starting Rote, which gives you 4 Reach to use. It's one of the more useful rotes to get.

I thought Co-Location was a Disciple spell, Weaving Practice.

I'm a Mage in a crossover game, and I want to take my Uratha pals to visit the Anima Mundi. Do werewolves (or other supernaturals) have any defense against the Ecstatic Wind?

So it is. Just checked the book. Still, the Rote should be able to allow you to create Paradox-free Doctor-Strange-style portals on a whim.

I would say it's pretty much Co-Location (Space 3) with possibly some Prime thrown in to make it normally visible.

Yuri's group is kinda similar.

Werewolves are immune to the ecstatic wind. They don't even notice it.

(That's from an as-yet unpublished book, so.. Uh.. spoiler!)

Our lord and savior who is definitely not an exarch

Speaking of unpublished books, will there be more for Requiem?

Old Clan Tzimisce tend to be really low generations, right? Like 5th and 6th?

Rules of thumb, before the official version makes it out:

If something has a human or former-human spirituality, the ecstatic wind applies. Use their Supernatural Tolerance Trait instead of Gnosis, invent some horrible "fuck you" for dying to the wind depending on what it is.

If it has a animal-like spirituality, like a werewolf or a Changing Breed, it's immune and can go gambolling through the Dreaming Earth all it likes.

If it's alien but pretending to be human, like a Promethean or a Demon, use its Integrity Trait instead of Supernatural Tolerance, and dying strips a dot of it off. No, Mr Ulgan, you do not have a real soul yet.

Old Clan Tzimisce doesn't make sense

What makes you say that?

Tzimisce Ante created vicissitude, how do his children not have it?

They might just choose not to use it?

Anything new on Deviant?

The whole point of space is that the distance doesn't matter...c'mon man. The mechanics that allow this require level 3 to do personally and 4 to do as a portal for a group, but anywhere on earth or beyond is acceptable provided you have sympathy.

Astral Realms wasn't published? Jeez, I must have a gotten a bootleg somehow.

Seers of the Throne p 147, sidebar "counting soldiers", second paragraph.

In a lot of ways, that's for the sin eater to figure out. Deal with the demands of your Geist, pursue what you wanted but were afraid to do beforehand. deal with the dead and the underworld. Sort of like Mediums in Wraith, except you're one of the bigger things out there and the underworld usually isn't quite as terrible as the wraith universe was.

The tagline is a "storytelling game of second chances" and while you may not be able to undo the mistakes of the past, you can set things right.

They have it, but if they use it, they are much more subtle with it.

I prefer "everything is connected" to "distance is an illusion, maaaann."

Also Goetia is like the hellbaby of the Avatar from OMage and the Holodeck from Star Trek.

>They have it
No, they don't. Old Clan considers vicissitude a disease and don't have as a clan discipline

Because Tzimisce himself and pretty much all of his immediate childre are masters of Vicissitude (one even turning into a virus that spread across Africa).

The "Old Clan", are really just a bunch of hipsters who sit at around Gen 6 and 7 that decided that claim some heritage to the "real" clan tzimisce before it was "infected" with vicissitude which is just factual bullshit.

The reason it doesn't make sense is because by the standards of the discipline they shun, they're pretty fucking young.

I heard that too, guess someone else BSed me at some point or I remembered it wrong.

IIRC they reject the use of Vicissitude precisely because it ties them to their Antediluvian.

I'm curious how would other splats like werewolves or demons even reach the astral?

Are there connection in realms like the shadow?

HOLD ON there just a second...

Dave, at the climax of the story you wrote for the Primordial Feast Anthology in 2015, a Beast's soul is destroyed by the Ecstatic Wind. Is a Beast not considered an "animal-like spirituality"? Are we seriously supposed to believe that you don't formulate your obscure crossover-game GM rulings at least three years in advance of a potential book needing them?

on a slightly less pedantic note can i please get an estimate on when you'll update The Man Comes Around, i thought it would be during the "waiting on art/editing/approval" phase of mage 2e since you said you'd only update it when you didn't have a book to write but i was wrong please help it's been so long my family is dying

Demons have can open gates and physically enter the astral. As for werewolves, who gives a shit.

beasts have no souls just like prometheans so probably dont ignore it like WW and furries.

Technically anyone can meditate into the Astral if a mage pays the Mana cost, or maybe even if they have an item with some Mana stored.

Beyond that, there are naturally-occurring gates between the Temenos Realm of Death and the Underworld. There's probably something similar in the deep Shadow.

In the story Magic was involved so 'the rules' kind of go out the window.

You're not curious what would happen if the woofs wondered to the edge of Oroboros and started talking with the Old Man?

He is going to share abyssal cookies with them?

Im planning on running a c20 game. Thinking of setting hacking it where the thallain have figured out a way to bring the dreaming into thw autumn world in a small localized area. Think the bio merge fields from Digimon season 3

>Old Clan Tzimisce doesn't make sense
>IIRC they reject the use of Vicissitude precisely because it ties them to their Antediluvian.

^ This.

The Old Clan want to be independent, thus why so many of them refuse to associate with Tzimisce (the founder).

That said, not every member of the Old Clan refuses to use or learn Vicissitude, but most do... and the ones that *don't* refuse it view the main clan's use of the discipline as "vulgar and childish" because they always opt for the more monstrous features of it, rather than simply exploring the more "subtle" nuances of having eyes that close vertically or six fingers on each hands, etc.

Dark Ages 20th anniversary has this one kind of neat fluff addition that mentions one Tzimisce's suspicions that it's the Kupala's influence that's nudging the Tzimisce as a Clan towards monstrous and inhuman forms when using Vicissitude.

And lemonade.

> Shape Mastery: Cause shapeshifters to revert to their natural form

Does this actually have an effect on Garou?

are they shapeshifters? YES then YES...ffs

I would say it does, but immediately causes them to go into their war form.

Question: What rule adjustments would you have to make to 2e CofD to make mage supremacy not a thing while still letting mages retain their basic archetype?

Disallow spells that instantly fuck other splats. No de-shifting werewolves, no handheld suns, etc.

Only if the war form is their natural form.

You dont need to adjust any rules, just dont crossover. Dont let there be special snowflakes in your game that dilute or even oppose the theme of whatever game your playing.

Think very very hard on why your even allowing a crossover, is it for max lols or cos one of your players is a supersxsplatfan and wont play anything else...

>Does this actually have an effect on Garou?

The power's description (In V20 Lore of the Bloodlines) specifically mentions that it confounds the native shapeshifting abilities of Lupines and Fae.

I would argue that it is.

Sorry, V20 Lore of the CLANS (page 87-88). My mistake.

I'm looking through the wiki article, rather than the book, just skimming some stuff, but thanks.

I would argue that it isn't. Your natural form is the the form that you're in naturally, i.e. your born body. So unless they're a Metis, the war form isn't their natural form.

Their basic archetype is "Holy shit look at all this cosmic power, hope I don't go crazy!", so if anything you would need to buff the other splats if you want to get around Supremacy without changing that.

>Metis

Heh.

"REVERT TO YOUR TRUE FORM!"

"Yeah, abOUT THAT..."

I also saw something in the last thread about exceptional success ignoring withstand, I'm assuming that's also something to get rid of?

I understand, but if I wanted to make mages play nice with the other splats, how would I do it?

Best/worst clans go.

Best: Toreador/Brujah, simple, flexible, can play a ton of different characters in a ton of different games.

Worst: Giovanni, they are painfully one-dimensional, overdone Italian mobsters with a less interesting Tremere backstory/discipline.

This guy has the right of it Just nerf their most ridiculous spells, tack on some qualifier that doesn't let them summon sunlight, detransform werewolves, probably also make it so you need more dots in Time to avoid ambushes and the like.

Then your not playing a mage, your playing a fucking cosplaying harry potter wizard wannabe.

>best

Lasombra and Tzimisce. The former because Obtenebration. The latter because Koldunic sorcery.

>worst

Giovanni, because they're just boring.

Actually, during a bad death rage, i'd really appreciate a deshifting spell.

And Handheld suns are a pale reflection of the real thing. Annoying rather than lethal.

>hating on the Godsire and enforcing Omerta beyond the Grave

Plebes. Ravnos is the boring stereotype, not Giovanni.

> Ravnos is the boring stereotype

Only if you're an idiot who doesn't look past the most shallow approach to a Ravnos, i.e. gypsies.

In W20 is stepping sideways some sort of teleport?

Do you reappear instantly somewhere else, or do you just go into the Umbra and then must rolla again to reappear?

Also how do you know where to go while stepping sideways if it works like a teleport?

Isn't stepping sideways literally just sliding into the spirit world? Like you aren't physically changing your location, just going to a different plane or whatever.

I don't really know. In the example of play in the core book a guy steps sideways to follow a fomori and he ends up inside a Pentex building

>gypsies
Isn't that the approach White Wolf took? Their Ppath literally makes them stereotypes.

Dunno, I always skipped those bits, always liked the Hindu mythos far better.

Beasts are formerly human, so it'd apply.

Depends what part of the shit tier rewrite that isn't coherent at all you read.

On the one hand, anybody can be a Beast! It's something random that happens!

On the other, only people born with the potential to be a Beast can ever become a Beast!

If we've gotta no-prize it:

Even in Homecoming style Beasts, they're still born with a human soul that either mutates into a Horror or gets fused with a Horror as part or a Beast's natural lifecycle. Hence, getting Wind'd still applies.

>On the other, only people born with the potential to be a Beast can ever become a Beast!
I preferred this, even if the original text left some sjw cucks reading it as offensive. At least the original writing of it seemed to be a cohesive idea. Its also what it said originally, and still what seems to be peppered through other beast texts as well. Not just a mess of a book. a mess of a game line.

>during a bad death rage
That's the risk you run with an Uratha tank in the group, nothing can kill it, but it might try to kill you.

Put vampire/promethean on as a tank. Move woof to damage department

So I'm designing a home-brew proximi dynasty based on the Jem-hadar from Star Trek. Fanatical super soldiers that are obsessively loyal to their masters.

Would they be a better fit for the Silver Ladder, Adamantine Arrow, or Seers?

As for arcana I was thinking Fate, Forces, and Prime.

Any advice?

>Fanatical super soldiers that are obsessively loyal to their masters
Seers bby.

Remove exceptional success ignoring withstand, make arana cost more. Maybe fuck around with how withstand works a little and individual spell affects here and there. Done.

Hmmm, was going to humor you with various counterpoints until I realized you haven't actually touched anything regarding Umineko.
I suggest you actually research before you spew blatant sewage. Thank you.

You need to learn to ditch bias.

Cool. What about arcana? I'm debating between Fate and Life. Life could explain their unnatural physiology. But Fate would bee good at explaining the oath bound.

The "I am an authority of power ranks" user was an idiot. Ignore it.

>Remove exceptional success ignoring withstand
Unmaking still just works automatically against anyone with under 5 stamina, given the automatic potency a Master would have.

That's why I added fucking around with how base withstand works. To be fair though I get rid of that even in non crossover mage games. It just gets kinda boring once the PC's are at the level where they can just wave their hands and make any problem go away.

Its not as simple of a change as you seem to imply, it would require a reworking of the entire magic system.

Not this again.
I will still bite.

His biggest mistake was disregarding the fact that each book in Featherine's library-city contains each fictional universe ever devised, her Author Authority extending over them all. She's by definition above other fictional works if you take this into account.
But then you have other fictional settings with similar premises, such as The Dark Tower by Stephen King.

She's definitely one of the strongest fictional characters ever written.
She's technically omnipotent, if not for the crown she wears to contain her identity from being assimilated by the Creator.

I would say go for Fate, Life, and Forces.

It absolutely wouldn't. Hell simply counting withstand as 1 or 2 higher than normal against making/unmaking so a mage can't simple delete a max level character works well enough.

Why do mages need to be dumbed down? It makes complete sense for them to be above most others.

My vampire hunting PC's are about to attack the Sabbat Temple.

Could you guys provide me with some pics of Tzimisce War Ghouls? I could use a little inspiration for what kind of horrors they'll be fighting.

>wwaaaahhh mages can one shot me

Oh please, just stop and shut the fuck up. You're playing the games wrong if combat is your sole focus.

That's absolutely not what I was saying at all, but thanks for trying.

Two of the Arcana have to be from a parent path. So an Obrimos w/ Life would be pretty amazing for a group of super soldiers that fight mages.

Perhaps the minor curse for the proximi could involve a physiological defect like from Star Trek that causes them to slowly wither and die unless they consume tass or something. Making them physically dependent on their seer masters.

>waaaaaaahhh mages can solve anything with a wave of their hand

Better?

Closer at least. The game becomes dull and incredibly hard to plan out games for when I have to pull out reasons for the PC's to not end any and all conflict with a single dice roll.

>Two of the Arcana have to be from a parent path
Right. For some reasons I was thinking this was more like a Legacy thing. I need to sleep.

I would say go with Life then. You can still put a geas on them though.

TRINITY WHEN?

When everybody can end conflicts with a single dice roll it comes a cold war scenario. You can still play decent games and shit within those confines. If everybody is a nuke, you find other ways to get shit done with can lead to all sorts of problems, easily solved or not. As long as there are concequences for each action eventually shit will star stacking up and provide a challenge.

Ran a 1e game with eventually 3 duel masters for around 4 years, (note have first game in 2012 and 1 game a week till 2016) it never got dull. Even in 2e i doubt it would be dull either, for every conflict that can be ended with a single dice roll, theres one that can be started with one too..

When a vampire arrives to a Camarilla-held city and they introduce themselves to the Prince that rules the domain, do they usually also volunteer information on what Clan they are?

Yes, when they present themselves they read out their pedigree
>I am x, childe of y, childe of z, childe of Set

It's an easy way for the prince to know when he has a plebeian on his hands