Lorgar did literally nothing wrong. Prove me wrong, mewling slaves of a broken corpse

Lorgar did literally nothing wrong. Prove me wrong, mewling slaves of a broken corpse.

Hint: you can't.

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Lorgar is not perfect and thus did something wrong. Checkmate the phoenician wins again

Both failed to kill Roboute when given the chance.
They will come to sorely regret this.

>worshiping gods
>instead of killing them after getting what you need and making their corpses your pets

Really fires those neurons.

No roboute and Fulgrim will make up and be best friends again. After all technically that wasn't fulgrim but the laer blade. Double checkmate 2-0 Fulgrim

>Character wearing a helmet

how can anyone hate this guy

...

Clearly learnt from getting spaced by Lorgar.

> Sees interdimentional psychic xeno

> Must be a God because it's big and psychic

> Oh hey it's turning my guys into xeno-looking freaks must be religion and not just submission to an alien force from another dimension.

Lorgar is a xeno cuck.

You have objectively shit taste in Primarchs.

>All-powerful, indestructible entities dwell in the realm of souls, where they can reward or punish people in the afterlife or bring them back from the dead
>Obviously not gods

Enjoy having your soul eaten by daemons.

Well he fell to Chaos so he fucked up somewhere.

and you like an angry man child with a chip in his shoulder about not being respected enough. Now that I think about it Pert is basically Hayden Christensen's version of Anakin

Kek

You'd be grumpy too if you were the greatest of the Primarchs but constantly overlooked and belittled by your jealous peers and creator.

>Hayden Christensen's version of Anakin
Got to bang Herschlag in her prime so eh..

>Perturabo
>Important
>He actually got a model release? Huh, never heard about it.

this

>You'd be grumpy too if you were the greatest of the Primarchs

you knew the truth and yet you still typed that lie. Pic related is the objective best. also my terminators are better than yours!

user, he literally fucked up his and all his brother's childhoods forever before he was even technically fucking born. He didnt so anything wrong, he did fucking EVERYTHING wrong.
ALL THE BIRTHDAYS, CHRISTMAS, GRADUATIONS, PROMS. THE BASTARD.

Chaos is the only true answer. Death to the False Emperor.

Would you younglins stop maiking noise? I'm trying to sleep here.

TURN UP THE MUSIC MY CHILDREN

Do not make me get off my monolith, young man!

but... what beautiful music they make... how do you not love it?

He pussied out like a bitch and sent Argel Tal into the Eye first.

Lorgar is spoiled brat that didn't like that daddy didn't let him worship him. The other traitor primarchs had legitimate complaints but not this fag

You fleshbags keep making noise up there. Emperor this, Chaos that... Stop partying and go find a job!

>also my terminators are better than yours
Actually, your terminators are Alpharius

Praise the Lord of Iron! All other Primarchs have inferior artillery!

He failed by losing faith in the emperor.

I hate the explanation for Fulmentarus Terminators.

>"Having observed his brother Primarch Perturabo, the master of the Iron Warriors Legion, field his Tyrant Siege Terminator squads in battle, Guilliman judged the tactic worthy of refinement. He immediately ordered the creation of a number of similar units in his own Legion so that he might study and improve upon Perturabo's innovation, proving himself once again the master of all of the myriad disciplines of war."

Fucking kill yourself writer.

>Concepts can't be improved upon.

Not that user, sure concepts can be iterated and improved upon but the idea of Guilliman taking a unique aspect of another legion and just "making it blue and better" is insulting to said legion and diminishes their personality in the cheapest way possible. Where's the Ultra-Red Butchers or the Ultra-Sekhmet then if we're just making effective units better?

>Sees best siege terminator designed by best siege master in the Imperium

>Goes and makes a superior one in his spare time despite his only real skill being logistics.

Fuck off Ward.

Well, he IS the one who founded an Emperor-centric religion in the first place

Guilliman has always been the smart one with the best Legion. Red Butchers aren't even good and Ultras probably lack the psychic expertise to make Sekhmet.

>Guilliman has always been the smart one with the best Legion.
Mind the skub.

Well then, why doesn't Horus being warmaster and all improve upon the concept of the Fulmentarus? Then why shouldn't Ferrus/Vulkan forge better SoH-Fulmentarus-Tyrants? Then why shouldn't Magnus etc, etc, etc.

Did everyone miss the whole "literally brain washed during an eldritch ritual after betrayal left him nearly dead all of which was a plan years in t he making" part of the Heresy story?

Clearly Guilliman should have taken a good look at Horus and then taken a few cotton balls, twigs, and squig spit and made a better Warmaster.

>why doesn't Horus being warmaster and all improve upon the concept of the Fulmentarus? Then why shouldn't Ferrus/Vulkan forge better SoH-Fulmentarus-Tyrants? Then why shouldn't Magnus etc, etc, etc.

They're not as good as Guilliman. They've also got their own things going on. Guilliman is most renowned for his abilities of codification.

Shut up and get back in your retirement crypt you rusty old bag of bolts.

OI! Wot da zog you lot on about? Orks is da best, so we'z da 'uns dats poifect!

>Claiming to be the best Primarch
>Not being recognized as the Warmaster by their father and brothers.

Look user, guilliman's good and all, but claiming he's the best is disingenuous.

>They've got their own things going on.
And Roubute doesn't?

Horus was only Warmaster because he was found first.

>And Roubute doesn't?

No, he doesn't over specialise. His whole thing is gathering and codifying information. Once he learns your moves you're done.

>Horus was only Warmaster because he was found first.
I'm not biased enough to say it didn't help, but don't pretend like he wasn't a master at warfare, conquering, and civilization.
>Once he learns your moves you're done.
So either you're wrong or the Master of Macragge couldn't figure out the tactics of the galaxy's resident pretty boy.

>but don't pretend like he wasn't a master at warfare, conquering, and civilization.

Never said he wasn't, but I don't think he was better at it than Guilliman.

>So either you're wrong or the Master of Macragge couldn't figure out the tactics of the galaxy's resident pretty boy.

How so? He lost in a fight, but the Ultramarines ultimately won the battle, the Emperor's Children quitting the field.

Mate, Horus was one of the best Primarchs when it came to conquering and fighting, not to mention using his troops to their fullest. Even Guilliman thought Horus was a better choice than he was, and that's for a reason.

Pity he wasn't as good at resisting immaterial chucklefucks.

>Mate, Horus was one of the best Primarchs when it came to conquering and fighting

Suuure, again, not disputing it.
But he doesn't stand out next to Guilliman other than he was basically the Emperor's firstborn son.

>Never said he wasn't, but I don't think he was better at it than Guilliman.
We'll chalk this one up to gentlemanly disagreement then.
>How so? He lost in a fight, but the Ultramarines ultimately won the battle, the Emperor's Children quitting the field.
I'll give you that the ultra's beat the children, but I was referring more to Guilliman's inability to stop Fulgrim from giving him a Columbian necktie. If we're just doing win rates of battles at large, I'd submit that the Iron Warriors, Ultramarines, and Sons of Horus were tied for that sort of thing. But how much do those battles matter if Guilliman got iced and doomed the imperium to 10k years of suffering?

...

Are you delusional or is this bait?

True, horus was a genius warmaster and combatant, no one is doubting that. I agree with the other user though, in that one of the things that makes roubute so good is that yeah, he would lrobably get slapped around in 1 vs 1 combat with other primarchs, but the ultramraines will still win, because of tactical flexibility. I really like the idea that guilliman incorporates (steals) other chapters ideas and tactics, because thats exactly how you should fight wars. Ultramarines are well disciplined, with good rules of combat that most importantly allow flexibility. The concept reminds me of the malaz army, from the malazan books of the fallen.

>be Lorgar
>know that golden superdad will come soon
>can't wait to get his cummies
>he's even better in person
>"I love you too son. Here, have a legion of supermen and spread my word. That is, absolutely no religion ever under any circumstances and do not worship me in any way.
>worship him anyway
>"heh, dad will be so proud of me after building super space vatican and making everyone worship him"
>...
>w-why is daddy mad at me?
>cry
>cry a
>"ayy, why don't you worship me and my buddies? I'm the god of trickery, deceit and sorcery btw. This guy will rip your spine out if you look at him the wrong way, the other one will give you crotchrot and the one over there will do unfathomable things to your butthole"
>"Sounds good to me, time to bring humanity close to extinction, yay! :D"
Lorgar was the worst.

This. Lorgar did everything wrong, and didnt have the decency to have a singal redeeming characteristic. He was essentially a walking plot device.

>I was referring more to Guilliman's inability to stop Fulgrim from giving him a Columbian necktie.

Some combats just can't be won. Fighting a giant four armed snakeman demi-god inside a daemonic hallucinogenic cloud is no easy feat.
Strictly speaking we don't know how close the fight was, Guilliman was the only one still there when the smoke cleared.

>If we're just doing win rates of battles at large, I'd submit that the Iron Warriors, Ultramarines, and Sons of Horus were tied for that sort of thing.

I don't think the Iron Warriors are in the running. Typically the Dark Angels are named alongside.

>But how much do those battles matter if Guilliman got iced and doomed the imperium to 10k years of suffering?

Better than 10k years of being extinct.

...

Eh, I'm not mad at Guilliman too much, I'd probably put him in the top 5 primarchs if I'm being honest. It's just taking the Tyrants and ultrafy-ing them is one of the lamest ways of representing the strategies and flexibility of that particular legion.

You could argue it's the Emperor's fault for assuming that he is going to be perfectly normal after spending his entire life receiving visions of who he thinks is god and because of that ends up being the pawn in a worldwide religious war.

He also suffered from the Emperor not caring what the Primarchs wanted for themselves and instead completely cede to his demand that they be soldiers. I can vaguely recall it being said that Lorgar would have preferred doing other things than waging war.

It did play on doubts that he was having about the Emperor, about why he retired to Terra without really saying why, and what the future for the Space Marines would be after all the fighting was done. There may have also been anger at the idea that after all they'd done, the Primarchs and Space Marines were supposed to just play guard while normal humans ruled and shaped the Imperium.

What are you talking about? Alpharius was the best primarch.

>I don't think the Iron Warriors are in the running.
From what I've read (which isn't exhaustive) the iron warriors had a high win-rate through sheer virtue of accepting 80% causalities and moving onto the next battle without delay. There's something kind of metal about that.

>Better than 10k years of being extinct.
If he was the best primarch like Vulkan, then he would have survived and gone on to keep the imperium from the insanity of the 40k setting, he's good at civ management after all. He didn't have a tragic end preventing him from saving the imperium like how his father envisioned so I don't personally consider him the best. Good, great even, but definitely not best.

All of this is not counting whatever the fuck he's doing in current lore.

Ultramarines are the Tyranids of the Space Marines.
>Vast numbers
>Advanced adaptation
>From the east

Addendum: when I say "tragic end" I mean things like Sanguinus or Horus' death.

>If he was the best primarch like Vulkan, then he would have survived and gone on to keep the imperium from the insanity of the 40k setting

But Vulkan survived the Heresy, abandoned the Imperium and then came back to job to an Ork.

>Implying the Imperium could withstand the galaxy on its own

Chaos is the only hope for mankind's ultimate triumph over the alien.

I agree with that desu. Makes sense, felt cheap.
I would definitely classify myself as an ultrafag, but i completely get what you mean. I really like guilliman, but i definitely dont view him as the best of the primarchs (even if he is one of my personal favs). I just like that the one thing that sets him apart is very understated, doest help in terms of personal combat, but is realistically the rxact trait that you'd want for your commander.

I must be off on my lore then, I know he came back but I thought he was imprisoned by Trazyn?

>I thought he was imprisoned by Trazyn?

He might be now, but he was free for hundreds of years after the Heresy.
Last we saw of him he was getting exploded on Ullanor.

Point conceded then.

DIE XENOS

Surely that's why xenos were exterminated left and right.

A helmet, an elegant device from a more civilized age.

He wrote the Lecticio Divinitatus.

Hate on black library all you like. The fact that asshats like fulgrim and lorgar got told the fuck off multiple times makes me smile

Anyone else getting connection errors?

I don\y know why this doesn't get posted a lot. Here is the Emperor's problem with religion.

Lorgar was warned by the Emperor and so did his brothers. They fell anyways.

>Emperor says there are no gods
>There are

>Emperor says afterlives and souls aren't real
>They totally are

>Emperor says humanity is alone in the dark
>Nope

Why would Lorgar believe anything this guy says when he's pathologically dishonest and untrusting? What makes him any more than just another ambitious warlord?

Hey Lorgar,remember that time you sold your brother as a slave to Khorne?

Depravity and hedonism ftw.

youtu.be/HsGRsDe3iRw

The Emperor knew that the Primarchs knew that in the Warp there are beings of infinite hostility. He warned them about them but choose not to name them daemons or Chaos Gods. In the end, all that mattered was that they obey him. They didn't.

He did it to save his life. Angron was dying.

Don't tell me you wouldn't do all that's in your power to save a loved one

Lets be honest here, 'A Serbian Film' was pretty much a commentary on what getting inducted onto a Slanneshi Cult is like.

No. But I remember when I saved his life, when all others abandoned him to slow and painful death.

>"I am a being of perfect knowledge and wisdom, everything I say is both correct and necessary, and I expect you to obey my every word without question or expectation of reward."
>"But don't you dare call me a god!"

And that's why he's a rotten carcass propped up on a chair while Lorgar is immortalized in glory.

Angron's only wish, to die fighting as a free man, has forever been denied to him.

But I'm Alpharius.

Angron would rather die than be a slave again.

Lorgar claims he did that to save his brother,but anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see he sold his brother for brownie points.

He seems to be taking it pretty well. He certainly fits in.

I feel like Emps really dropped the ball here. He could have easily made use of Abrahamic religions to crack down on warp-sorcery - Christians and Muslims are not known for tolerating witchcraft. Given that Big E cites Warp entities as his specific reason for disliking religion, by his logic he should rather like religions that would crack down on those who would call on the Warp for power.

What a shitty brother Logar is, never even thought of it like that.

I have never seen it, is it worth pirating?

>Guilliman himself called Sanguinius the best of the primarchs

Explain this, Ultrafags.

He was Lorgar.

>okay kids, there are evil things in the warp. The stuff of nightmares. They are not to be trusted. They are the beings that let whole ships disappear if the Geller field ever fails.
>he didn't call them gods, everything's a lie! Truth naaaoooo!!!!!

Guilliman, as the best Primarch, is humble.

The problem is that given enough worshipers jesus and allah would manifest in the warp and start fucking with his plan.

Now if he had just chosen to be a god from the beginning then maybe that power would be his.

Those religions still feed chaos. Holy wars for the "one true path" feeds Khorne, the death and squalor caused by them feeds Nurgle, people being repressed leads to Slaaneshi outbursts, and the desire to change feeds Tzeentch. Monotheistic faiths are bigger breeding grounds for chaos than some shitty pagan larpers.

When people pray, the beings in the Warp listen and sometimes they answer. The problem here is how you can differentiate between a daemon answering your prayer or your supposed god doing it. You can't.

Imagine, the entire Imperium die-hard believes in an invisible man in the sky who would grant your wishes and give you a peaceful afterlife if only you prayed to him and did his bidding.

Now imagine you're in a setting where warp-entities regularly communicate with the plebeians and convince them *they're* the magical sky-god talking directly to them who'd grant their wishes if only they did their bidding.

Literally everything the Emperor did achieved exactly those same things, though. By this reasoning, there is no way to not feed the Chaos gods.

When it starts telling people to do things that aren't in the Big Book of Holiness, that would probably get some negative intention. People tend to be really strict about things like that, or have you already forgotten that heresy has historically been considered a Pretty Big Deal by the religious?

Valid enough point. It's not like the Emperor would have had trouble getting worshipers.