So if in 40k Nurgle was born due to the disaster of the Bubonic Plague and Khorne was born from the extremely bloody...

So if in 40k Nurgle was born due to the disaster of the Bubonic Plague and Khorne was born from the extremely bloody conquests of the Mongols and other hordes, why aren't gods being born nearly every minute now?

Think about it. Even the Mongol conquests and Black Death didn't kill on the same scale as the war and destruction in the galaxy in M41. Hundreds of thousands of beings of every race collectively perish or suffer every day. If something on the scale of a devastating but single-planet plague or warlike genocide from steppe hordes can form (almost always malevolent) gods, then why aren't there hundreds of gods in the 40k universe now?

A single major siege alone should be birthing dozens of Khornes.

Its widely accepted they were the straw that broke the camels back

Also a siege wouldn't spawn hundreds of khornes, it would make khorne himself more powerful

Think about it as the birth of a star. Random feelings and emotions are attracted to one another, forming elements more and more complex, also attracted to each other (maybe due to some force similar to gravity?). After a while, there are conglomerates so big and massive that there can't be any more individual element, due to being absorbed by the god almost instantly.

Because all that potential god-energy is now getting slurped up by the existing pantheon. It never hits critical mass.

So they basically evolved via Darwinism? Fighting other potentially-born gods until they eventually won and became so powerful that by now the energy that made them just fuels them rather than form gods outright?

This I guess.

You need a huge event to birth a god, but once it exists anything else in that vein is just going to fuel it, not create another. I guess if there was someone a mass peace brokered, and everyone in the galaxy was overjoyed by the event you'd get some kinda Joy-Peace Chaos God?

>if in 40k Nurgle was born due to the disaster of the Bubonic Plague and Khorne was born from the extremely bloody conquests of the Mongols and other hordes

Was it that way round ?

The last time I read something like that, all it said was that the birth of those gods happened at the same time as those events. Nothing about if the events created the gods or the gods created the events.

We do have one example of what happens when a single species creates a chaos god: The Eye of Terror was created over the Eldar civilisation when the Eldar created Slaanesh.

The lack of anything resembling the Eye around earth suggest that humans weren't the only contributor to Nurgle or Khorne.

It depends on the source.

Some state that the Black Death and the Mongols directly created Nurgle and Khorne and brought them into existence, and through thousands more years of disease and war they became powerful Chaos gods.

Other material says that Nurgle and Khorne existed before those events, but were not sentient, conscious, or powerful. Basically infants sustained only by the emotions they were associated with, but not truly living entities. Khorne was "born" with the mass blood sacrifices carried out in the Americas, especially by the Mesoamericans, while Nurgle's origins are unknown. It was the Black Death and Mongol invasions that "awoke" them and gave them sentience.

I'm honestly not familiar on the origins of Tzeentch. Being associated with change and inconsistency is pretty difficult to pin down to any one event in human history.

Then of course Slaanesh was outright created by the greed, gluttony, and excess of a huge portion of the Eldar, and gained his power by attacking/eating the Eldar gods after they lost millions of followers and were greatly weakened.

>Its widely accepted they were the straw that broke the camels back
This. If we're going by that fluff, the chaos gods were forming long, long before any of those events. Those events were the final catalyst to their full formation.

That would actually be rather terrifying because you'd have a God that would like be perverted into peace = non action, so you'd have daemons possessing people until they died of starvation/thirst or even suffocation as they stop breathing. It would be hard to fight because you couldn't just punch it in the face since its greater daemons likely wouldn't even bother materializing, and if they did, they'd likely radiate pure apathy.

Basically, you'd create the God of entropy.

That was vaguely the idea behind the Gods of Order in WHF, which were the rivals of the Gods of Chaos.

If Chaos won, the world would be destroyed. If Order won, the world would enter a permanent stasis where nothing could change or move forward ever.

In WH both the extreme ends of order and disorder suck.

Yes it's dumb. Ignore it if you want. Justifying it just makes it dumber.

The Chaos Gods are emotional hives come to life. Khorne represents murder, violence, and bloodlust. Any spirits wrought with those emotions in an uncontrolled state fuel him. There are only 4 Chaos Gods because those are the dominant and redundant emotions fueling creatures in 40k. From humans: despair (Nurgle), bloodlust (Khorne), and scheming (Tzeentch). From Eldar: the quest for perfection (Slaanesh).

Iv got a better question, If the Black death and the Mongol wars either spawned or were the final impetus in the birth of at least 2 chaos Gods, Why isnt their a massive Warpstorm over terra?

When the Eldar birthed Slaanesh it created the Eye of terror. A warp storm so god damn large its dominates an entire sector of space.

That occurred during the Golden/Dark Age of Technology.
The immense Scientific and Technological progress made during that time, only fed Tzeentch, the only God of 'Order', besides the Eldar Gods.

It is only after Tzeentch broke his staff that he turned to Current-day Tzeentch

Because they weren't retard. Stop reading 1d4chan, and actually catch up with modern 40k fluff. The Chaos Gods have always existed, including Slaanesh. There is no time before them.

Was slaanesh not a direct result of the eldar super orgy?

Probably resulted in slaanesh being "birthed" into the eldar reality.
Prior to that occurring the eldar had not reached such levels of excessive indulgence, and so could not even imagine that which interests slaanesh.
It wasn't that slaanesh didn't exist. Just that slaanesh didn't exist to the eldar.


Like how people used to think that a thousand dollars was a lot of money.
And then in the distant future when we get levels of excessive wealth which we can't even imagine today; the Jewish god will actually manifest and be a thing.

It always seemed kind of weird to me that they introduced Gods of Order when they already had the Old Ones as Chaos' antithesis

khorne has existed as khorne ever since the first caveman bashed another's skull in with a rock

I don't think they really fought anything, they just continued to amass emotions and concepts until they reached a point of attaining sentience.

The thing that makes the Chaos gods so powerful is that no real structure went into their creation, so they draw power from both positive and negative emotions and concepts. It would seemingly be hard for a joy entity to form because there is a chance Slaanesh would feed on all of it.

Entropy is part of Nurgle's domain.

>the essence of khorne has existed as khorne ever since the first caveman bashed another's skull in with a rock

FTFY

The first murder orgy created that "spawned" Slaanesh was created by a Keeper of Secrets. IE, Slaanesh created itself.

Chaos was first made as a ripoff from the Elric saga, where there were both gods of Order and Chaos. Then the gods of Chaos evolved into something unique and those of Order where discarded.

Ripping off whole concepts and then focusing on a single particular that works until the end result is a very different thing than what they started as it's a pretty common thing. In my campaigns I do it basically always.

If i remember correctly Tzeentch was around the cold war period or something? Like right now kind of deal.
May have got that wrong.

I'm pretty sure Tzeentch was supposed to be the Renaissance at one point, though honestly I don't think any of the Chaos gods are tied so directly to human history.

They probably existed as some form of lesser Daemon since the earliest days of sentient life in the galaxy, and progresed by beating up rivals and absorbing them. Khorne in particular is said to have skull rings on his fingers from other gods of war he's killed, so presumably this happened in multiple cases for each of them. There was probably a time where Khorne was effectively just a Daemon Prince on the rise, taking advantage of the War in Heaven to amass power.

Of course, time being as fluid in the warp as it is, things aren't quite as linear, so trying to match it to time periods in realspace is tricky. Generally though, there isn't much reason why the Chaos gods wouldn't have been forming far earlier in the universe, in at least some way, and it's unlikely their birth was triggered by the events of one race on one world. Hell, with the lasting effects Slaanesh's birth had on the galaxy, it's unlikely that the other Chaos gods had such a singular defining event and instead got there more gradually. Slaanesh was created in such a destructive manner because even the thousands of years of excess that took place by the Eldar was a rapid ascension by comparison to the other gods, who probably had billions of slowly getting where they are now.

Retconned you fucking retard!

I think it was hinted that the real world events were a catalyst for the first 3 awakening.
Now youve said it i think youre correct on the old fluff renaissance thing.

I'm pretty sure it was outright stated, but it still makes very little sense for events in history that didn't even affect the entirety of the world, let alone multiple worlds, would creature such powerful forces in the warp. Slaanesh was made from an entire galaxy-spanning race practicing insane amounts of hedonism across many many planets.

If anything, I would point to the Necrons for creating the Chaos gods. Despair and fear of death from their constant radiation sickness. Hope and Change as they pursue science and technology as a way to fix it. Rage and bloodlust as they fight against the Old Ones and their servants for dominion over the galaxy.

Humans within the last 2000 years of our history would still be a footnote on the galactic scale.

>it took an entire galactic empire at its zenith going apeshit to birth slaanesh
>meanwhile khorne nurgle and tzeetch are all born from one planet's worth of humans, all within roughly the same thousand year time span, from relatively minuscule events

do humans just buttchug chaos energy or something?

At most those were the tipping points that helped them achieve sentience, if they're even canon at all anymore.

I think the whole War in Heaven ordeal and other xenos predating humanity is why they've kind of dropped specific human events having anything to do with Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch. With Slaanesh it's a bit more plausible that the Eldar helped him reach sentience because for an unknwon period of time they were the dominant force in the galaxy and a highly psychic race.

im just wondering why the tipping point for nurgle is a single pandemic on one planet, but the tipping point for slaanesh is untold words worth of psycker murder orgies

My best guess would be that if such a thing is still canon it has something to do with humans being able to have an effect because there aren't a lot of psychic races and even humans at the time being incredibly weak is better than nothing.

Of course this relies on knowing that of all the alien races that GW has ever mentioned, how many possess at least some innate psychic ability.

On the other hand it could now be seen as not making much sense and that is why GW has not mentioned it since the Realm of Chaos books, though it could just as likely be they don't it's important to say anything about the births of Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch since they apparently don't have an affinity with one race in particular like Slaanesh does with the Eldar.

So Slaanesh came about because Slaanesh fucked time.

It's noted that before and for a while after the big fours birth there were teeming countless gods, goddesses, spirits a daemons of emotions both benevolent malevolent.

Over time, the big fours played the game and killed and ate all their competition, subsuming their portfolios

As it is now the big fours have a complete stranglehold on the warp, all worship eventually gets back to them and any smaller spirits are snuffed out or devoured before they can grow. They are the trees which have grown so large everything else around them dies for lack of sun. Essentially the warp is overgrown, both due to the proliferation and pyschic potential of humanity, and the machinations of the four

An ocdonut I was a fan of a ways back was the idea of a 40k setting where the Emperor died but when he did and finally separated from his body his death scream burned through the warp like a wild fire, destroying the Four and leaving the warp once again "open" for all manner of powers fair and foul to flourish again.

you're mistaking birth with consciousness relative to the point in space and time

the chaos gods have always existed, most just started caring/acting towards a certain place or race after specific events

The other gods coalesced slowly other time, the Eldar empire was a galaxy spanning race of mega psychics who were having so many drugged up orgies that slaanesh formed in a few thousand years (very fast) sothe birth was more violent

it's a pretty big universe but i'd say it's harder to belive that through the actions that happened on earth had caused the Khorne and Nurgle to be awaken since plenty of larger bloodbaths probably had happened before humans figured out how to kill each other. wars against the Old Ones by the Necrontyr for instance were probably larger than what the Mongols were capable of and who knows what kind of epidemic were unleashed in the farther parts of the universe

even Slaanesh was caused by Eldar having too many sexy parties i mean

From what I have gathered from the lore is that Khorne and Nurgle awakened from events of Mongol Invasion and Plagues.

But also that Chaos Gods have existed throughout history.

Because Warp messes with time so the moment God becomes "alive", gains sentience he/she fucks timeline by existing before he was truly awoken.

Technically, even if Khorne, Nurgle and such WERE first spawned at a specific time, after they were spawned they retroactively would have existed earlier, because the Warp doesn't obey the laws of time.

Warp was calmer back when Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch were birthed.

Slaanesh was lots of ripples on top of an already chaotic warp, and the Eldar were extremely psychically powerful when it happened.

With humanity just awakening into its psychic potential, if a new Chaos God were spawned NOW on Terra, then it'd ruin probably the majority of Segmentum Solar. Then blow out the majority of the rest of the galaxy on top of it from the Emperor dying in the process.