Is petrification more humane and practical than a regular prison?

Is petrification more humane and practical than a regular prison?

Petrified prisoners do not age.
Petrified prisoners do not have to wait out days, months, or years in prison.
Petrified prisoners do not get rusty in the skills they had before being imprisoned.
Petrified prisoners do not have to be fed.
Petrified prisoners do not get into fights.
Petrified prisoners do not escape.

The major downside is the cost of depetrifying a prisoner, which varies depending on the system.

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You know that prison needs to reform the criminal, right?

This is such a weird excuse to make a fetish thread.

Does it count if you reform them into an inanimate object?

>You know that prison needs to reform the criminal, right?
Not in the American 'justice' system.

Suddenly shit makes a lot of sense, huh?

>sentence someone to petrification for twenty years
>twenty years later
>the culprit spend his time being stone, not thinking about being punished
A thread died for this very dumb idea.

that's a pretty modern concept, and is no where near universal

>do not have to wait out days, months or years in prison
Then what's the point in being imprisoned to begin with?

Although I could see it being used to lock up people sentenced to an "eternity" of imprisonment, similar to a death sentence, however they can be freed if they somehow turn out to be innocent.

Depends. They might be fully aware of the passage of time, but trapped in their own body without the ability to interact with anything.

Then again, it'd make any duration of time in 'prison' effectively a sentence to be reduced to total insanity.

If the whole thread concept is about how humane something should be, then shouldn't we take the most humane modern prison system as the benchmark?

Your premise is a stupid excuse and your picture isn't even trying to not be porn.

Depending on your time "away", having all the people that you once loved now dead would be a fitting punishment

Seems like Petrifying would be better suited for having important people skip through time.

Royal person is sick? Petrify that noble until a cure is found.
Want to keep that swordmaster around to teach the final secrets of your royal guard's sword style? Petrify him, then thaw him out when somebody is about to reach master status.
Have a reoccurring Enemy that comes around every couple hundred years? Petrify the hero who defeated them the first time to lead your army into battle.

Prisoners seem like the worse choice, unless they are somehow conscious and able to think and observe while being stone.

Petrification has mostly been used for cryostatis in my campaigns.

If every prison sentence turned into Metallica's The One, you'd hope that their mental care system be top notch right?

US prison system is about prisoners providing free labor. hard to do when you're a rock, rocks can't break rocks.

Depends on the density of the humans ( or whatever) turned into rock. You can break rocks with rocks.

If you just want to lock them up forever but not execute them (you might need them in the future) petrification is pretty solid.

No faggot, then you're still doing the labor yourself and that defeats the point.

>The Medusas of the setting are skilled masons, physiologists and neurologists.
>They use Stonemeld and stonecarving to alter both body and mind.
>They can even implant ideas in your head by melding a stone glyph with your stone brain.
>The only catch is that they have to use rock of the same kind to meld together for it to work, which can only be obtained from other Flesh-to-stone creatures.

Or political prisoners. Good way to hold onto some nobles while you wait for the ransom. They can even stand in your hall while you have a feast as a demonstration of power.

Just throw them out of a balcony or something in that case. Sucessions always fuck with their power. No need to wait precious inbreeding resources on that

It'd be a great way for a two-level prison system of a society that doesn't want to outright kill criminals that can't be rehabilitated.

Put the guilty that can be reformed in an actual prison.
Put the guilty that cannot into stone storage for eternity.
Really, though, most societies in settings where petrification is an option would probably just ouright execute criminals bad enough to warrant life sentences instead of fucking around with petrification.

Well what's the point of prison then. Punishment? Petrification doesn't. Take them out of society? Discourage repetition through making an example? Just kill them.

Why petrification?

You'd care more if your hands and legs were chipped away from the constant smashing

>Petrified prisoners do not have to wait out days, months, or years in prison.
You make petrification sound like a form of one direction time travel.

Reform's out of the question in stone form, so I'm just trying to think of a situation where freezing someone in stone for x amount of years does just as much good as them spending time away from society consciously for x amount of years

The one thing I could think is prisoners of war? If you wanted a way to be absolutely following the geneva convention against an enemy combatant then petrifying them for the duration of a conflict would probably fit in just fine as long as no one is desecrating the stone-forms.

Of course your setting would have to have both petrification /and/ a geneva convention sort of deal for that to be viable and I don't know what the overlap is like on that

You could tell the prisioner he's going to be warped /carved into a heinous form. That'd me moraly questionable though

I have no mouth and I must scream stuff

The problem is you're merely delaying the problem. If the prisoner is relatively harmless, you're just condemning them to inhabiting a future that they may not adapt to. If they're dangerous, you're basically exposing the future generations to >an ancient evil awakens on a smaller scale.

Though sometimes the prisoner may turn out to have valuable skills or knowledge, like pic related.

Sez who? Can you name one system that actually works to reform the prison population. Can you name one that exceeds a 50% ACTUAL success rate? Don't feel too bad, neither could my Law dean, back in school.

>Take them out of society? Discourage repetition through making an example? Just kill them.

For every offence? Some mind find that excessive

>Royal person is sick? Petrify that noble until a cure is found.
Do you want a crisis of succession? Because that's how you get a crisis of succession.

And this is different from our system...How?

Yeah, PoWs seems like the best case, since that also means the enemy won't start starving them if food runs low. It makes taking and keeping prisoners more of a flat cheap cost to undo the spell at the end of the war, and as a bonus anyone caught like that will still be in good physical condition when they go back.

Well, maybe something like taking stuff from them. Like money... but not everyone has that. Or time... oh, there's an idea...

Keep in mind also that it's a major drain on the state's coffers to keep prisoners alive and healthy and confined for a long time. Depending on how easy it is to petrify people, it might be a major saving.

I recall one in Europe. Sweden or Norway or one of those other places. Basically just had little apartments in the middle of nowhere 100% focused on reform and their rates were great

but you might also get a king who will return in the time of his country's greatest need.

If you get it via a captive basilisk you can get it at the cost of just food and animal handlers. Or you have a Medusa on your side.

>Is petrification more humane and practical than a regular prison?
Of course. But so is killing the criminal.

>Is petrification more humane and practical than a regular prison?

Depends on why you're going to prison in the first place, however...

>Petrified prisoners do not have to wait out days, months, or years in prison.

...so, then, what's the point? I fail to see how this is functionally different from just exiling them to Australia or something.

Fragmented

Our (ancient) SpellJammer game used this as a 'cold sleep' cheat. The wiz casting the spell would work in a fairly safe de-stoning system, or more than one. As the Wiz, The release was my blood, tightest control, as I had to freely give it, but I also used 'air' and 'mounted stoners that flew on the Lander.

That falls into the fallacy of the mallable man which -though predating it- has become increasinbly popular under marxism. In some cases it works, no doubt about that, but the universal appeal of this approach leads to a failing system. We have simply become too sensitive to realize that in many cases reform is impossible, and what are we supposed to do then? Life imprisonment is unjust to all parties involved: the state which has to waste resources and manpower watching over an unreformable prisoner, the citizens whose income is exploited to provide the neccessary funding, and the prisoner who has nothing to look forward to but death yet is denied even the possibility of commiting suicide.

It gets especially bad in what's happening among many immigrants in Europe: they enter prison petty thieves, they leave trained and determined terrorists. That is because the unreformable still linger, polluting the minds of those who need to be "reformed" faster than the broken system can pretend to "fix" them.

>Is petrification more humane and practical than a regular prison?

"Is a deathless state of un-living where you are removed from the world better than living in the world arebeit in shitty conditions"

No.

Yeah, but this would lead to them either committing suicide, or becoming likely sociopaths.

That's actually a great idea for prisioners of war (they keep their value, they're not harmed and they can't escape), although it wouldn't work for post-war prisoners who are often children that are better used to gain future allies.

Have you read Ginny Weasley and the Sealed Intelligence? fanfiction.net/s/11117811

Spoiler for the climax of the story: It turns out that the petrification ability of the basilisk is only a side effect of its main ability, which is to make a perfect copy of the mind of anyone who looks into its eyes. Also, multiple basilisks form an intelligent hive mind if brought close together. Conclusion: Make all humans ""immortal"" by copying them into the collective mind of a gigantic basilisk hive.

This.
The solution to crime is always murder.

if we believe we must punish people for their wrongdoings, maybe as an example, as we cannot believe for certainty they'll be punished in the afterlife, it would be worth the costs.

The most successful systems are those that integrate genuine education and skills training into the sentence.
While not the case with everyone, most convicts re-offend because of a lack of prospects outside and there is a distinct correlation between low levels and education and high levels of crime, so equipping them with a proper set of skills or even a trade will give them a legitimate means of living without having to break the law again.

>integrate genuine education and skills training into the sentence
Well, The States should integrate this in public schools before they integrate this in prisons. Mostly the same target group.

Some of you really need to accept that some people will always commit crime. It doesn't matter if they have an education or not, or if they somehow managed to get a college degree. They will just use that newly gained knowledge to commit more elaborate crimes.

see: blacks commit petty crime(due to lack of education), whites commit elaborate crimes (due to access to education). Education is worthless. Some people are just assholes and will commit crime because they feel like it.

Also the Mexican cartels aren't uneducated gooses, you don't form an underground empire by lacking education.

>Well, The States should integrate this in public schools before they integrate this in prisons.

As a teacher in the USA, I agree entirely

what about intelligent psychopats ?

>some people will always commit crime. It doesn't matter if they have an education or not,
>Education is worthless.
While both of those are true concluding the latter from the prior is sheer idiocy.

Just here to look at naked medusa.

> blacks commit petty crime(due to lack of education)

it's due to poverty desu

No.

The isolation and sensory deprivation will drive them mad, leaving you with galleries upon galleries of lunatics that can never be released.

Education is strongly correlated to crime and recidivism rates, but equally strong is the correlation between the labor market and wages, and crime and recidivism rates.

But murder is a crime...

All ya niggas need to read some Beccaria. Seriously.
constitution.org/cb/crim_pun.htm

I've studied criminal systems for eight years and most of there posts are painful to read.

Petrification must be great for sea travel and other colonization projects. Cryo sleep in fantasy settings.

Anyways, stone is also degraded by time. Even without magical mishap, there's probably a percentage of people waking up with massive woulds because of cracks or erosion.
Not to mention insects getting in the orifices.

If your country has a >50% recidive rate, you must live in some backward hellhole.

So from this thread all I got was that petrification is overpowered and should be banned in every campaign.

Thanks Veeky Forums

Honestly, the system OP is suggesting is just for people too concerned with being "humane" to execute criminals but don't give a shit about how inhumane it is to violate bodily autonomy, IE smug hypocrites.

The only just punishment for dangerous criminals is immediate execution, regardless of their actual crime.

>fantasy state reeducation camps where criminals and 'dissidents' are literally reformed in to obedient servants
Would be a pretty cool Orwellian twist to a fantasy campaign

Prison is meant to punish/humiliate OR re-educate/reform/repair.
If your idea of prison is to pop an individual out of society and then pop them back into society unchanged, then sure, but your idea of prison is fucking retarded.

A better answer would be: petrification is a good DETAINMENT procedure.

At least OP tried, unlike every other fetish thread on Veeky Forums

Explain the dissapearingly low recidivism rates of Scandinavian low security prison systems then.

The problem isnt that "some people are just criminal" its that "in some situations crime becomes the most easy/effective/moral option". And those situations include mental ones, trained modes of thinking that require unpacking with the help of mental health professionals so the inmate can realize why they committed the crime.

You have to work out a way, such as education within the prison system or mental healthcare to allow them to find a place in a different system.

Except that neither rehabilitates nor punishes. Might as well execute them and not run the risk of someone trying to unpetrify them in the future.

Every once in a blue moon, the Warcraft writers have a cool idea

I quite liked the Panderia concept of the bug warriors, they freeze their greatest paragons of combat in amber to be revived in a time of crisis.

Rock breaks rock, Ed-boy.

Reminds me of an idea I saw once:

All crimes, regardless of severity, are punished by stranding the criminal in the Astral Plane for a single real day (1000 relative years).

Do you want supervillains? Because that's how you get supervillains.

>strand the criminal mastermind in a plane with functionally infinite time to train and learn from the other criminals with 500+ years of practice with 24 hours of prep before he and his minions are freed

Sounds like a good idea

Stand as in "alone, with nothing to do."

Stranded as in "alone, with nothing to do."

Again, that solves the problem how?

>Again
what? You haven't told me that before

>You know that prison needs to reform the criminal, right?

That's what a chisel and hammer are for.

No, it doesn't. It's to punish them. Anyone who claims it's there to reform them or help them is lying or ignorant.

In the case of public prison, helping the inmates reduces repeat offenders, which reduces tax dollars spent on human scum.

In the case of private prison, you're totally correct.

Violating a persons right to bodily autonomy is worse than killing them.
Death is natural and comes to all living things, forced modification is perversion.

A fool criticizes murder hobos for resorting to violence as their only solution but a wise man understands that violence IS the only reasonable solution.
You cannot dispute this.

>helping the inmates reduces repeat offenders, which reduces tax dollars spent on human scum.
They only resort to that because simply killing all of them was deemed too unethical.

Consider the following. If a prisoner is to be released at some point, a prisoner taken out of personification has lost nothing in terms of time or age. Yes, you've destroyed a good number of their human connections, but those can be replaced.

No time has passed in their incarceration. No lessons learned.

Yes, exactly.

You've not only failed to cause them to suffer (punish them) but destroyed all their connections to the world around.
Instead of discouraging them from further criminal activity you've left criminality as the only way to exist.

I'd rather have my bodily autonomy taken away from me and then possibly given back then be killed.

Get out of here, Akhmed.

You're only saying that because you have this prevented thing, this empathy for the criminal.
You think "What would I want done to me if I was scum" not "what is right for scum".
Of course you would want the most perverse, lenient punishment over what is just.

The scum should be killed in all cases, anything else is selfishness deceived as concern and you should focus on not being scum.

This is how you get Dread Sorcerer Dave coming back 500 years later when the records of why he was turned into a statue have long since been lost and he is freed by accident to renew his reign of terror.

>medusa and gypsy

>gypsy
>blond hair

No.

Personally I find it hard to trust the killing of criminals when a lot of people who get executed are later determined to have been innocent of the crimes for which they were accused. I suppose that's less of a concern in magical fantasy worlds where you can ask a passing deity to undo your mistake.

Spinning this is a different direction, if the petrification needs to be maintained somehow (goes away when the medusa dies, or w/e), it's a good way for them to maintain power.
If you kill them, boom! City is swarming with violent criminals.

But apparently on the more Animal Farm side of Orwell

...

>camps
it's a room with a revolving door and an high-level enchantress.

Really? Prisoners in our system are aware of their punishment/rehabilitation. That is the primary function of incarceration. How are they supposed to learn anything if 20 years feels like a quick nap.

>Lets make no attempt to change the offender in anyway send him out again into the streets. Surely he'll be a changed man.

>20 years later, all the criminal's contacts and associates are now old or dead.
>A lone fish in a big sea.

Seems pretty rough mate. Plus I'm sure after the second time they just smash your statued form.

The primary purpose of a prison is to punish, with the secondary and tertiary purposes being to keep dangerous people away from society and to rehabilitate them so they are no longer dangerous upon being released.

A prison that only really does one of these things, and not even the main one, is not a very good prison.

There are certainly some people who are so psychologically damaged, either because they were born that way or because of trauma, that they will never stop being dangerous criminals. '

I don't think there's substantial evidence that these people form a majority of criminals, though. Most criminals are likely reformable to some extent, if given the right support.

It's not murder if it's a legal and justified execution
Lawful Good isn't always lawful nice