/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>Question:
Are any of you planing a Changeling game?

NO

>Are any of you planing a Changeling game?
I've loosly been considered a Lost game with that Vegas setting we came up with.
I have literally no interest in Dreaming.

>Are any of you planing a Changeling game?

I am starting a changeling game.

I am, 4 players, 2 have finished sheets, one is Seelie Wilder Satyr whos very into music, but more classical. A seelie Raccoon Pooka Hobo, and one player is leaning Eshu, 4th person is undecided atm

Using Pinebox Texas map for the Base City.

Time for more C20 Arts!

Chronos 1, or I Scry the past!

Reposting the question cause I'm in the dark.

How long between manipulating events in the Shadow and seeing changes in the read world?

For example say there is a park that's notorious for gang violence and drug usage and is generally avoided. If you go to the shadow and kick out the vice and conflict spirits and bolster and clean up the park's spirit. How long until people start using the park again?

Chronos 3, Set in Stone.
or, I make people unable to age or heal.

Not at the moment. Dreaming is still a hard sell for most people

Get a hold of the C20 book, Its a lot better.

Chronos 4, Deja vu
or Minor Time Travel.

That's not how it works, is it?
Real world affects the Shadow through tainting essence.
Shadow influences real world as Spirits cross the gauntlet and manipulate it through influences and numina to forward their cause.

The more I read of Mage: The Ascension, the less I understand how Traditions are supposed to be the good guys.
>Order of Hermes wants to turn the world into a feudal wizard-ruled hellhole and that's fine
>N.W.O. knows your credit score so they're evil

Seriously, explain to me how I'm supposed to side with the Traditions.

Both sides have their assholes, don't worry about it anyway, The Technocracy has already won.

The Technocracy are objectively the good guys. They're trying to create a world in which the common, unawakened man can live a free, decent life, fearless of some Mage coming down to burn down his town and butcher his family because they happened to be bored that day.

>The Technocracy has already won.

Their reign is arguably starting to wane

The Union has been infiltrated by the actual antagonists, the Nephandi

Each side has the shitty extremes, the Tradition extreme is the aforementioned feudal wizard hellhole. The Union extreme is a Cyberpunk tier corporate dystopia where everyone works 9 to 5 in featureless grey cubicles for the glory of the computer.

Of course you're really supposed to side with the Union agents who are out fighting supernatural horrors so that your day isn't ruined by a rabid Reality Deviant eating your spleen.

There is a whole campaign right there. Fuck Id play in that.

You're supposed to think the Technocracy only wants power, and has no noble intentions for the world.
You're supposed to think they're stifling creativity and want to turn mankind into a race of unthinking drone slaves.
You're supposed to think that without the Consensus, everyone could be a Mage and choose their own fate.
You're supposed to think that mankind totally won't be eaten by Dragons and Demons and fucked to death by horny Gods should that happen.
You're supposed to think that freedom and uncertainty trunp order and security by their very nature.
You're supposed to only care about yourself, and your power, rather than thinking about what your pursuit of self-empowerment does to reality.
You're supposed to deny the state of existence that the consensus has reached, ignore the support mankind has thrown behind technology as a tool for mankind's control and power over the world, and seek to dismantle it for their own good.
You're supposed to selectively take elements of the Technocracy as being "good", like medicines and so forth, while then turning around and decrying the very institution which created them as being a soulless sack of crap.
You're supposed to think the Technocracy has never done anything good, only making weapons. While ignoring the weapons your own shitty Tradition has made.

Prior to the Dimensional Anomaly, the Technocracy was pretty fucking sinister.
Archmasters, Control, and those on Autocthonia solved problems by sending HIT Marks at problems.
They denied their own organisation's goals, and the reports from ground troops that not every anomaly was inherently dangerous.
Some two-bit punk messing with drugs in his basement, but who doesn't interact with anyone else? Not worth their time.
And yet time after time they went super-heavy-handed on threats which only needed a bit of readjustment. Making enemies where non-agression was the more economical choice.

Tell me user, when was the last time you played a game of world of darkness?

Two weeks ago. We normally play every week but it's been busy for most of us.

It's a ying yang situation. The Shadow effects the mundane world and the mundane world effects the shadow. But the changes are usually subtle from my understanding, if you wound the spirit of winter for a city you may experience an unusually mild winter that year.

My group plays Friday and Sunday evenings.

Never
I'd like to play/run some day, but only oWoD

Earthbounds can expand the scale of their powers on the extreme by purchasing a background called "Mastery" I'm pretty sure that you can manage to at least affect the whole planet with a particular combination of other backgrounds and lores.

The Technocracy is all about control. They're the reason why you get so much grief from biologist when you bring up Creationism, why homeopathy and panacea's won't work, and why the world is becoming a dull and terrible place to live.

Way too long. Finding a WoD group that isn't a tumblr edgefest is hard.

>The Union extreme is a Cyberpunk tier corporate dystopia

I thought cyberpunk dystopias were more the Virtual Adepts thing.

Last week, and I'm going to play another session this saturday. I will also be the ST for a oneshot next week.

Changeling Finally get some Really good Battle Cantrips now.

The Dragons Ire, which used to be a any fae could harness if you had levels in Greymere (knowledge of Glamour and how it works), now its a badass Art.

Holly Strike.... JFC.

Base Fae 4 Glamour 4 Will Power, most raise it a Char Creation, and will likely have more by the time they have the 4th level of Dragons Ire.

Not the world, exactly. But far.

The Unnamed and his followers blackened the entire universe.

A Earthbound can spend 1 point of Faith to multiply any non damage result by 10. a 10 yards effect with 1 faith becomes 100, with 2 1000, with 3 10000 and so on (An Earthbound can have up to 50 Faith, or even more, maybe 65) , then combine that with Hell on Earth that screws everything up and there you go, I never said it was going to rival an entropy 10 mage, but it surely is interesting.

Dragons Ire 5.

Last friday. Got another session tomorrow.

One of my players is about to hit threshold. But I'm not sure what to do with the other characters. I want to keep them all on a relatively equal footing but I want to reward his quality roleplaying and drive.

You don't keep multiplying it like that. You multiply it straight up.

Wrong.

Ten dots in any Sphere is effective omnipotence over that pillar of reality.

Forces 9 would be sufficient enough to turn the universe into a lovecraftian nightmare.

On a scale of 1 - 10
How overpowered is this ability?

Thats actually really cool. I'm gonna keep it for urban fantasy stuff and maybe art threads.

11

Light speed is basically an auto win. And other supernaturals have absolutely no defense against it.

Assuming thats from masters of art 10. That book had very little thought put into it, it was kind of a result of the 'bigger and cooler powers are always better' era.

I would say ten. Though it's not the most overpowered ability out there.

Why is that book even considered canon. It should be disallowed.

Meh. It's to impracticable to actually even use in most cases anyways. Honestly if you're trying to run an archsphere level ascension game you're better off just playing noblis in all honesty.

Why do mages always turn random discussions into dick measurement contests?
>hey isn't this power cool guys?
>life 9 is better
>muh archmastery
>muh unnamed
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I don't care if a Level 9 ability is superior to a Level 5 one, I just found cool the System used to multiply the power was cool, and the example made in the manual with a shitton of turns.

Also the fact that a Level 10 mastery gives you omnipotence is just an assumption, and it's not right to state it as an absolute truth.

So after all of this can we go back to the power discussion?

>Some Euthanatoi have wondered if Oblivion itself is an aspect of an Exemplar of Forces. Could it be that every force is just an emanation of the will of some ancient mage who imagined the cosmos into being?

I kind of wish the authors had edited this out. It really REALLY supports the Mage supremacy meme and just seems unprofessional.

How so?

It reinforces the "a wizard did it" meme, not mage supremacy.

>Also the fact that a Level 10 mastery gives you omnipotence is just an assumption, and It's not right to state it as an absolute truth.
Ten dot Spheres are never given examples because of this. It's the "do whatever the fuck you want" ability. Similar to Transfiguration in Awakening. Omnipotence is easily applicable, at least regarding its purview.

You can also become Omnipotent mixing Prime 9 and Forces 9 as others have mentioned.
Or just Prime 9, but you'd be locked out of the present universe.

>Level 10 mastery gives you omnipotence is just an assumption
Funny that. The permanent version of Transfiguration is actually called Assumption.

Yup

The players will be newly minted Knights Errant driving across a slightly less fucked California that still has a few places in dire need of Un-Fucking.

The players will pull in to Berkley where they'll be fighting ANTIFA/BAMN/etc with the serial numbers filed off, to save a couple of childlings and wilders. After that they'll have a plot hook where they find a very powerful Dreamer who's been in a coma and has been causing tears between the autumn world and the dreaming and letting out a bunch of nightmare creatures. Once they find the Dreamer they'll have to go in to her Dreamscape (a fucked up mansion that is slowly eating up the Dreaming) and set her free from her survivor's guilt and a powerful nightmare.

Things I'm ripping off in this chronicle;
-Dream Drop Distance
-Alice: Madness Returns
-Digimon Season 3

Pitch it as something similar to Percy Jackson (just change demigods to fae), or Psychonauts (just replace psychic with fae)

I hear ya.

Is there ANYTHING PLAYABLE that can possibly challenge an Archmage in OWoD?

It's listed as a plot device, but this doesn't mean that a 10 dot mage is omnipotent, they are two different things. There is just lack of proof to say that without a doubt.

Also, no matter what you do, even if you use Prime 9 you still will attract Paradox, and if you have any kind of limitation you are not omnipotent.

See that implies that archmages are playable in OWoD
*bdum tish*

>magefags surely are magical, they were able to shit another thread up because of their insecurities once again

>but this doesn't mean that a 10 dot mage is omnipotent
They pretty much are. But rarely, if ever, will an Archmage reach such heights. Only the Unnamed has achieved ten dots after he became God-King of Creation, and it was only a possible future.

>Also, no matter what you do, even if you use Prime 9 you still will attract Paradox, and if you have any kind of limitation you are not omnipotent.
Prime 9 creates your own universe with its laws at your discretion based upon the Spheres at your disposal. Mixing it with Forces 9 is enough to turn the current universe into a multiverse with yourself as its Omnipotent overseer, effectively dethroning God in the process unless he decides to intervene, however unlikely.

Munchkin whoring aside, that's a pretty cool way to re-imagine the setting as a whole.

I think there is some rules for changing loci and it can be used in a similar way.

I guess that becoming a "god" doesn't make you immune to paradox effects, you still scretched out an universe and put yourself on top, but can you destroy the spirits or any kind of conseguence that will show up? Mind, I didn't say imprison, or redirect or whatever, I said destroy. The answer by the manual is no. You cannot do that? Then you are not omnipotent.

The inner workings of the universe don't have Paradox. Not sure what the issue is here.

You can also ditch Paradox using Prime 9, though you can't prevent its accumulation.

If the spirits reside within the newly crafted universe, then yes. They can be destroyed. It's your universe. Do whatever the fuck you want based on the understanding of your Spheres.

As in, he's about to complete his Threshold Seeking?
I wouldn't pay too much heed, honestly.
The group would all have to all be roughly comparable to Gnosis 6 in the first place, with Masters.

At that point, "balance" is practically irrelevant.

What do you mean by 'challenge'? I regular ass bullet in the forehead is still going to be just as effective against an archmage as it is against anyone else. Sure they have the power to do just about anything, but in an actual game those powers very rarely work perfectly like they do on paper.

You're an idiot.

Any idea where someone would do that?

Altering the very basis of reality doesn't gather paradox? That's a really nice Meme.
>But you cannot prevent it's accumulation
More than that actually it would make it even worse, by the point you would spend eternity just trying to "dispel" an ever growing paradox until the point nobody wouldn't be able to sustain it.

>bullets
>killing mages powerful enough to even reach mastery

Sure, friendo.

>Altering the very basis of reality doesn't gather paradox?
>More than that actually it would make it even worse, by the point you would spend eternity just trying to "dispel" an ever growing paradox until the point nobody wouldn't be able to sustain it.
Irrelevant as long as you're inside the newly conjured universe. Outside of it? No doubt. Even Forces 9 is going to garner Paradox.

Mind 9 turns all minds into a single mind.

Paradox, Paradigm and the Consensus no longer matter.

You miss my point. I'm not saying the solution to archmages is to just walk up and shoot them, I'm saying asking what can challenge an archmage is kind of pointless. Everything that could kill a normal dude could still in theory kill an archmage, it comes down to the actual play by play so to speak.

Yeah, but that's too obvious to even mean anything. Will it even be effective? Porthos Fitz-Empress (Forces 6 Archmage) can reflexively subdue lightning, during his short skirmish with another Archmage.

Mages have contingencies up the butt. Your point still stands though. They're still human.

But what about the current universe whose paradox would just rip you in half as soon as you enter it? (It's just figurative, don't start arguing over this) Even Level 5 Oracles could do that by creating their own realms, basically what you are calling "universe" is just a glorified version of that. If you would just straight fight the current universe you will see that you are not omnipotent, you would just be Able to do anything in the universe you created, but not really and TRULY omnipotent over anything else, can such a thing be called omnipotence? No, IMHO.

Sidetrack of the day;

How do I pitch the Kiths in C20 without the tumblr-esque jargon thats in the book?

>But what about the current universe whose paradox would just rip you in half as soon as you enter it?
The Paradox would be garnered for creating the universe, not entering it.

>Level 5 Oracles
There's no such thing.

>basically what you are calling "universe" is just a glorified version of that.
No, it's explicitly referred to as a universe.
The relevant passage even hinted that Prime 9 was used to create our present universe, spooky as it sounds. Same with Forces 9.

>If you would just straight fight the current universe you will see that you are not omnipotent, you would just be Able to do anything in the universe you created, but not really and TRULY omnipotent over anything else, can such a thing be called omnipotence?
The laws within the newly formed universe correlate to your understanding of the Spheres.
It is your own personalized omnipotence, but it's lost as soon as you leave its bounds.

"Loci arise naturally when large quantities of Essence build up around the focal point without attracting any spirits. Uratha can stimulate the necessary conditions by clearing an area of spirits while allowing Essence to gather. After around 150 points of same resonance essence collect for over a week, it settles into an object or person in the vicinity and becomes a one dot locus. Loci increase in power if they continue to accumulate Essence-150 points per dot, or 50 days of uninterrupted growth."

So I'd say do something similar to change the the general Resonance of an area.

What tumblr jargon?

>An Archmage uses Prime 6 to remove god curse on Caine
>Caine, being human again can finally unleash his awakened potential, destroying the fool archmage

Since when is Caine a mage? Or even an archmage?

More like Caine and archmage go out for ice cream and a movie

MOOOOOOOOM
THEIR DOING IT AGAIN

pls no tattle

It could be based on an interpretation that God's curse was specifically to prevent Caine from awakening. But it's never been outright stated that Caine was a mage

Interesting theory. Caine did look somewhat like a wizard in his past.

Tumblr jargon was the wrong term. Pardon my fuck up. But I mean shit like this;

Re: Eshu
>Eshu seekers often find themselves swept up in movements dedicated to social and political justice, though they don’t always stay long enough to see those movements to fruition. An eshu can make
posters in the morning, march in a protest in the afternoon, then be two cities over by dinner, sharing the story with yet another audience. In this way, eshu actually help to spread awareness of important social issues and the techniques used to pursue justice.

I also wanna know if theres a way to pitch the kiths without pigeonholing my players.

I didn't say that the paradox was created by you entering the universe, but I was trying to be funny imagining the paradox spirits waiting for you and ready to rip you a part as soon as you enter the "original" universe again.

About the omnipotence, I don't think that a thing such "Your view of omnipotence" exist, let's say that you live in a universe, with Your powers you create another universe, making the whole technically a multiverse. To be actually be able to be called omnipotent you would need to have complete control over said universe, not a part of it.

>There is no such a thing as an oracle with a 5 dots sphere mastery
What?

You're making no sense at this point.

There is more than that, Caine actions did actually influence reality on a Universal scale (he basically "invented" the concept of violence and murder that influenced all of creation, influencing other beings such as angels that before that they never know of such a thing)

Princess is better than anything White Wolf ever published

>To be actually be able to be called omnipotent you would need to have complete control over said universe, not a part of it.

Ok, this shouldn't be so hard for you to understand. The Archmage is only supreme within the bounds of his newly conjured universe. That's all.

The only way to become omnipotent of the real universe is to lace Prime 9 with Forces 9.

Not on a universal scale. The Consensus has only ever reached the Asteroid Belt. Everything beyond that (the Deep Umbra) is out of whack and horrific.

I feel this is a good time to remind everyone that 4chanx and recursive hiding exist.

Hmmmm.
Well I mean, on the one hand you can kind of do that now since there aren't exactly mechanics enforcing that are there? You could make it fluff agnostic by just rewriting/erasing the parts you don't like and sending those over to your players couldn't you?

My reasoning does make sense thou.
>You live in universe 1.
>You create universe 2 with Your powers
>universe 1+2 makes a multiverse
>this Action creates paradox, but you are now in universe 2, so you are technically immune to that, even thou it's still lingering and ready to "strike" as soon as you re enter universe 1.
>Now that the universe is now a multiverse to be considered truly omnipotent you must have control on the whole of the multiverse.
>too bad that Your power extends only to universe 2, therefore you are not really omnipotent, because universe 1, or at least part of it still isn't under Your control, and you cannot do anything about it.
Is it clearer now?

Does it have merchanics for ______hand holding______?

user that's just called ________erp

So did Caine's actions prove he was the equal to God? Facilitating God's need to prevent Caine the means to become his equal (awakening then ascension)

...

Angel "wars" before the murder of Abel were no more than "contests" and minor fights with no violence, angels all over creation fought by "creating" basically, playing songs, creating planets, directing electrons in fancy ways from one star to some Planet. After the murder of Abel, Angels started fighting in the true sense of the word, and the first angelic victim was utterly destroyed by a "weapon" that's way more Extended than consensus Space.