/4eg/ Fourth Edition Dungeons and Dragons General

Also, any help with these two monster would be appreciated, if you don't mind contributing free labor to a fan project and building a crowd-sourced monster. I can do the editing and repost the monster.

oh, i guess there is a way. You go to preferances and click "show large weapons." Its really tiny and hard to spot.

lol, i'd like to show her my large weapon

3+1, then. And each option grants a different type of power: race is encounter, theme is utility (non-combat), PP is daily, ED is support (combat utility)... for example, obviously.

gaiz, c'mon man, are you just going to ignore all that effort I made into trying to kickstart this thread?

So you'd get to pick your paragon path and epic destiny from day 1? That sounds cool. Like a more focused version of exhausted with western themes and heroes.

Not every power follows the power format though, some of them are just constant effects or properties, such as paragon effects. Should there be a way to stat for this?

jeez, 4e really is dead.

new monsters

new monsters I need help with

silly broken builds

tooltips

Passives could follow the power format, except a lot of your passive effects in 4e were small shit like "+1 damage with x when Y", which would be a waste to card-ify, and you had a lot of them 'cause feats.

A successor game could cut out that chaff, and then do entirely card based character building.

I tried it with Strike! and it's really fast.

yeah but all that small stuff added up.
part of the fun was picking through the feats and paragon paths and finding those little +1's. The problem was all the circumstantial bonuses really added up to a nightmare of bookkeeping

I think effects need to be a bit more broad.

like a monkey grooming ritual, it was. Picking out all those little ticks and lice, then consuming them and absorbing their power.

Interesting. I could see that making some sense, shuffling around what grants what of course.

Although it does somewhat narrow the design space available for some things, it also provides a strong structure and a nice sense of symmetry.

Then again... Twelve combat powers is only two below 4e's 14, which quite a few people found overwhelming.

Then again, this might be me overcompensating. I'm the sort of person who loves having lots of interesting options to consider, but I'm trying to not let that overly influence our design and making things just as or even more overcomplex, since that was a common complaint even among people who like the system.

>minor action, at-will, MBA stun

Holy shit this is the worst thing I have ever seen

I think this situational +1 must go. Feats should add diversity, not bonus.

Yeah, one of the worst parts

Still working on the Avenger PMC Rogue. It's coming up rather nicely, actually. Didn't really think I could use a Light Blade as an Avenger properly, but honestly it's helped up a bit.

Isn't there a method to use heavy blades on a rogue instead?

Sounds better for your damage.

Probably not by much, at best it's going from 1d8 to 1d10, but losing +1/+2/+3 with combat advantage.

versatile duelist. It's ok

I had a funny rogue build focused on using it to give a halfling a bastard sword with loads of damage. Because versatile duelist + scrappy + small warrior's defense + heavy blade opportunity makes for a very scary halfling

Heavy blade opportunity is just one of those early, cool (read: kinda broken) feats that you can stay up late into the night building characters around.

wizard + entrancing mystic + spell focus = permanent -7 penalty to saving throws against your charm spells while you're within 3 squares of the target

Post your build, nigga

how bout if I make it so you can only use it once per turn?

Make it a daze, and only once per turn

you can make it daze if you want.

Should i bump it to level 9?
At least that way you get access to all three dailies.
Maybe level 11? For paragon paths?

Do you have any input for the potion junkies? I kinna hit a wall with them. Even some clever names for powers would be cool.

Do you want them to use potions mid-combat?

Maybe change the dwarf from using mere strength potions to potions of giant growth.

Each does increases his size and move-resist by 1, but also lowers his speed by 1.

Successfully pushing/pulling/tripping makes him barf up a potion and shrink back down a size.

Otherwise he's just an aura defender. Maybe basic attack pushes enemies by 1+size, trip if would smash into wall.

I would like some sort of page template for races and classes so I could easily work on my own. OP doesn't have it listed, and I remember that something like that exists.

Help?

>Do you want them to use potions mid-combat?
BRILLIANT!!!
>Maybe change the dwarf from using mere Noice!
>Each does increases his size and move-resist by 1, but also lowers his speed by 1.
Good... Good...
>Successfully pushing/pulling/tripping makes him barf up a potion and shrink back down a size.
lol
>Otherwise he's just an aura defender. Maybe basic attack pushes enemies by 1+size, trip if would smash into wall.
i prefer extra damage when you hit a wall, but sounds good!

>Maybe change the dwarf from using mere strength potions to potions of giant growth.
Noice

...

I thought brute would be better for him but think maybe adding a mark ability might not be too bad either. I think his AC needs adjusting, maybe have him wearing hide or plate.

Here we go.

I'm thinking maybe increase to level 5, add some sort of secondary attack like a grab. What do you think?

shit, i forgot to add the extra push to the giant potion. He pushes an extra square when he drinks it.

also, there should be some reason why he doesn't just drink it right away.

Why not grab and pour some drink into the target, making him daze? "Drinking Friends" or something.

I was thinking like putting them into a headlock and giving him nuggies or causing indian burns or something.

thats pretty clever too though. I think its got more of a irresitable laughter/ dance feeling to it. Like a bunch of skeletons are partying and they enchant you so that you have to join in.

whoa, why did it increase to d8?
hmm... maybe it should increase to d8 when he drinks a potion.

Nah, its already doing 5d6+6 max.

Now that seems like a suitable elite. That thing could one shot a character if they are not careful.

I just corrected a few clerical and grammar errors. Nothing update worthy. Adding a grab attack seems too clunky.

I think its done.

Here is a link to the monsters for download
mega.nz/#!BBlB3BQD!ncanFowIrcHZ7fMDgQcw33q_irb7-aAndbbaqj4Jal4

Want to do the speed potion junkie next?

Anybody have any ideas for a monster concept? I promise I won't try to shut you down.

I've never had a need to make monsters, 4e has so many pre-made monsters and is so refluff-friendly that it's never been an issue

yeah, but, lets be honest here, most of them aren't really that good, are they?

Most of them are underpowered, their fluff is boring, their abilities are really basic, even their names are just kind of recycled templates with a new adjective shoved in front.

Some of them are really good though. They just need their math adjusted to make them harder. You don't really need to match up each mini to each critter entry, you can always just substitute another model for it.

I'd generally recommend turning all monster stunning attacks into daze+slow attacks

Because it is never fun to be stunned

If I do that, will you contribute something? Or you know, you could just follow this link and edit them yourself.

mega.nz/#!BBlB3BQD!ncanFowIrcHZ7fMDgQcw33q_irb7-aAndbbaqj4Jal4

>MBA
Woots dis?

melee basic attack

so, you know, it can stun with an opportunity attack

Oh. its not supposed to be basic. I don't know why I checked that.

What's your favorite familiar for a witch?

So I made a pair of hobgoblins that are meant to compliment each other, mostly just copy pasta from kobold piker and fighter types, but was hoping to punch it up a bit.

They are perfect for guarding corridors, because the shield guys go up front and push the line while the pikers hang back and attack with reach. Since the average corridor in D&D is only about 5' to 10' wide, they make good use of their phallanx abilities.

I think maybe level 5 is too much. I'm also not sure I want shield bash as a move action, but I want them to be able to do something with their move action and i want them to have a push attack, so i dunno.

...

Alright, so i changed the stun glove thing. Its reach 1, not 2, does 1 damage instead of 1d4+x, and its no longer a basic attack.

But thats it. If you don't like stun, don't use it, but I think it is just kind of a fun silly thing to include that keeps the solo from getting swarmed and is kind of clever to boot. (lol, maybe it could be a boot on a jack instead)

oh, and it can only be used once per turn.

But its still stun!

Here are some suggestions:
>New attack power: Rush (standard action; at-will; weapon keyword)
The potion junkie shifts 8 squares. During this shift, it can make up to three melee basic attacks, no more than two of which can be made against the same target.

>I'll cut you man! I'll cut you! (fear keyword)
Close burst 5 (one creature in the burst)
Attack: +5 vs. Will
Hit: The target grants combat advantage to the potion junkie until the end of this turn.

>Didn't even feel it
Trigger: The junkie is hit or missed by an attack and takes damage.
Effect: The junkie takes half damage from the triggering attack. If the junkie was missed, it instead takes no damage from the triggering attack.

>Slash 'n' Grab (recharge when first bloodied)
The junkie uses Rush, but can replace one of the attacks with picking up an unattended object or making a Thievery check to grab an attended object.

>Zip Gun
The potion junkie shoots a hook up to 10 squares away. If the hook is able to catch hold on a surface, the potion junkie shifts to that location.

Does the offline monster editor have all the official monsters? I can't find Tiamat even after all of the updates are installed.

It's not finished, but the basis is actually kinda similar to the CharOp Mia build, but actually is possible without being overly cheesy.

Basically, Mia was an Avenger PMC Ranger that got that Scout attack after an MBA, and relied on rolling several attacks per turn to crit-fish and stacked them even more, which the Avenger can do. Basically, she was the ultimate Avenger - rolled a lot, got a lot of crits and a lot of attacks off those crits, was a tough bastard to take down but extremely mobile too.

I decided to do a variation on it. I would rather PMC Rogue than Ranger. I lose the cheesiness and sheer power, but it's still a very good character. Still gonna keep Martial Archetype, because it fits the role.

Githzerai Avenger of Ioun, 12 STR 12 CON 18 DEX 10 INT 18 WIS 8 CHA bumping DEX and WIS, Censure of Unity or Pursuit, take your pick. Theme is Samurai or Ironwrought, Power of Skill as the first feat, the second is Githzerai Blade Master, picking up a Rapier, then Light Blade Expertise. This allows for a decent character that is more of a charger type. Relentless Stride as your E3, E1 doesn't really matter, probably is Raging Tempest. Afterwards we MC Rogue with Sneak of Shadows, Fury's Advance for E7, Novice Power at Level 8 to switch Relentless Stride for Low Slash. Keep switching for Rogue powers, first the Dailies, then the Utilities. I would go Knockout and Sneak in the Attack. As for the Utilities and Dailies of the Avenger, I'd say Aspect of Might and Nine Souls of Wrath, Utilities are whatever.

PMC at level 11 then pick Improved Initiative followed by Superior Will and Superior Reflexes. Level 16 it's Cunning Stalker. Then pick up Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Opening at level 18 and 20, use a Short Sword in your other hand. Encounter powers are Darting Strike from the Paragon Path, level 13 is Relentless Stride (retrain E1), then you switch from Low Slash to Tumbling Strike with your E17. As for your U12 you can probably take Tumble.

At level 21, go Martial Archetype, pick Tumbling Strike through the ED, E17 becomes Vengeful Parry, then you can use Novice Power to pick up . Don't even worry about retraining any furthers, by Level 21 you have Tumbling Strike, Vengeful Parry, and your choice of 3 of the following: Darting Strike, Low Slash, Relentless Stride, Fury's Advance. Feats are Superior Initiative (retrained from Improved Initiative), Vengeful Declaration, Hand of Divine Guidance, Martial Mastery, Divine Mastery, Heavenly Torrent and Font of Radiance.

Do use Radiant Rapiers, you can use Counterstrike Guards which are also kind of crazy. Try to get many MBAs in, they're great, especially given you're an Avenger. Strikebacks and Backlash Tattoo, for one, for example. As for your capstone feature of your ED, I'd say either Death from Two Sides or A Plan Comes Together to allow for some slight leading; Master of the Hunt as your L26 Utility.

The running idea and plan with this character is to try and really pressure up your opponents. You can dictate where they go quite easily and it's hard to punish you or to do anything at all, since you will end up with quite a few interrupts. You like to burst into the fight early on and pressure the enemy lines. You have strong crit-fishing possibilities, too. You don't quite have as much mobility as Mia would, but it's hard to beat Mia in nearly anything. Honestly, the toughest thing has been picking the Utilities and Dailies. For example, Sneak in the Attack is a really strong pick for your Rogue MC Utility, and you have Holy Blessing through most of your career until Level 21. Dailies I've pretty much only Knockout and Bloodbath which are absolutely hilarious, but Avengers only really get meh stuff.

Hence why I have yet to finish it. It's missing most of its items, dailies, utilities, just about anything.

If you're wondering how it plays out, at lower levels, if you'd rather play it a bit more straight before going all-out, you're a decent damage-dealing Avenger that uses a Rapier by Level 5 but nothing special, by level 7 you can have some good target-chasing capabilities or nova possibilities, it's really your pick at that point as you can pick between Darting Strike, Low Slash, Fury's Advance and Relentless Stride, with some leader-like bits from other things (particularly your Utilities), but if you'd rather you can just drop that and go a bit more straight as a striker. By level 11 it's starting to be a great character, and by level 13 you are actually good at both nova'ing and chasing down your target. In fact, that's your main deal. You come in close, pressure your target and make it difficult for him to get away from you or to try and escape you. The higher levels only intensify, not even by rounding out your arsenal but rather by making you better at stringing everything together. Then Epic comes in, you become a really solid critfisher that doesn't feel like it's actively trying to critfish, and you regen a lot of powers.

It's a build I find quite fun to think about, but it's still kind of unfinished.

>Basically, Mia was an Avenger PMC Ranger that got that Scout attack after an MBA,

PMC should be fixed to a.) not allow abuse as that b.) be worth it without abuses like that.

How can I get the most elemental water themed powers possible? There's always tons of options for fire, dozens for ice, plenty for wind and earth, but water seems to get left out.

Hi /4eg/, I'm the one thinking about using 4e for Starcraft.

Should Stimpack be an item consumable? Terran racial power? Marine class feature? Feat power?

And how to do it? Spend a Healing Surge to allow a RBA or MBA as move action until end of encounter?
>but then everyone would use it on turn 1!
Yes, and spend a HS for that, reducing his ability to heal.

For now the idea is having as classes:

- Infantry (Marine or Reaper)
- Heavy Weapons (need better name. For Firebat and Marauder)
- Operative (Ghost or Spectre)
- Officer (Medic or Science officer)

Maybe refluff the classes as armors/loadouts. You are unlikely to switch to a different one, but it allows you to treat shit like the stimpack a feature of marine armor.

Multiclassing feats would be bolting tech from other armors/equipment sets onto yours that's usually not compatible/standard issue.

Could work, and the level (rank) only implies better handling of the equipment and better requisition of armor.

But doesn't help in making it more friendly if before every mission player can switch class (armor) and loadout (power). Could drag it too much.

Well, as long as the player got the stat investment in one type of armor, switching would be discouraged.

But I personally kinda like the option of switching loadouts/retraining, as long as your streamline it down.

This falls apart when dealing with Ghosts. Psi powers don't work like that. But the loadout idea is a good fluff to explain crunch restrictions.

>Psi powers don't work like that.

I'm pretty sure they actually need psi-catalysts built into their stuff for just about everything they do. They can't cloak without their gear, for example. I also don't think stuff like lockdown is entirely just psi powers...

Except Kerrigan, 'cause she's the protagonist.

As a GM, how much would you say I deviate from the DMG/Monster Vault's numbers if my players are chronically bad optimizers?

>Wizard with 2nd highest stat as Wisdom
>Took no powers that scale off Wis

>Rogue with +1 Cha modifier
>Taking Cha-based powers

The other two I helped with, but they're not in any way spectacular builds, and I'm just feeling a little worried.

breddy gud, m8

Only thats not what a zip gun is.

You might want to be careful about planning out your build ahead of time. It might sound good on paper but you might end up having to retrain a lot of your skills if the build doesn't work.

just make one build at level 1, one at level 11, and another at 21. Start from the bottom and work your way up.

I need to recheck the lore about it. I really thought it were to restrict, not amplify the psionic powers.

It is better to keep the classes as classes, but the loadout idea will be used.

You know, neither of those are particularly bad for optimization

Enlarge Spell is a good enough feat to make a wisdom investment worth it even if you don't plan on taking any wisdom-scaling powers. And some of the cha-scaling powers for rogue only need +1 to give pretty much their full benefit like Compel the Craven.

Either way, you're in a better position than DMs with actual optimizers since your players will be closer to the power curve the game assumes. Rather than a few steps above it

Kinda broken, I can picture it going really screwy with people like Rogues and Rangers and even Avengers.

In fact, it basically makes the Avengers really strong because now they can do 2 attacks per turn with Overwhelming Strike, which is kind of ridiculous, and they're one of the ones that are more suited for that, especially given some of the powers available.

Or Monks, Monks suddenly have Multiattacks now.

Well, Terran powers would have to be chosen to avoid this. Letting Avengers powers to the Protoss Zealots.
I'm all ears on how to better to this without breaking the game.

In Starcraft 1:
>Marines and firebats double their rate of fire and increase their movement rate for a limited period of time.
In Starcraft 2:
>Enables affected infantry to attack and move 50% more quickly.

Mia was still a really good character - the PMC synergy between Avenger and Ranger followed by Martial Archetype is not something to be underestimated. Unfortunately I can't really find the build nowadays, and the forum is fucking dead.

But it was very interesting. You can run it without going full cheese and it will make sense.

Plus, you can actually do a really funny thing and dual-wield with a dagger in your main hand, a bastard sword in your off-hand, and use your sword for anything - you're basically an FE Myrmidon/Swordmaster at that point, and it's great.

Terran racial utility power, probably Level 6, maybe higher. Minor action, personal. Encounter. Spend a surge, then shift your speed and do a basic attack against the closest enemy to you.

That's how I'd do it.

Feels kinda weak to have to spend a surge just for that but I'm no expert on power balance in 4e.

It's just a hair worse than a Level 22 Bard power. It's quite strong.

stop talkin' shit and post your build, nigga

thats probably because, you know, its just water, and not like, acid or something.

sploosh!
NOOOO
IM ALL WET

been playing 5e recently. Man i miss the Streetwise and Dungeoneering Skills.

I'm in a 5e campaign right now and combat is just so boring. I'm playing a paladin and aside from a couple buff spells every now and then every fight is pretty much attack attack attack oh it's a scary thing smite smite smite.