What's the difference between a longsword and a broadsword?

>it being a one hander is something DnD made up.

The one-handed straight sword that DnD hawks as the Longsword actually existed, it was called the Knightly Sword, also known as the Arming Sword.

Wrong
Correct

Basically a broadsword is any basket hilted sword like pic related. It has nothing to do with the typical medieval swords like longswods and arming swords.

Wikipedia:
>Historical terms without a universal consensus of definition (such as "broadsword", "long sword", "short-sword", "bastard sword", "great sword", "full-bladed sword", "side-sword", "dual-bladed sword", and "two-handed sword") were used to label weapons of similar appearance but of different historical periods and fabrication technology, often by describing their size or shape relative to other unrelated weapons, without regard to their intended use and fighting style.
Long swords are long, broad swords are broad, and bastard swords were used by ripe bastards.

nope

>longsword
>Weight 1.1–1.8 kg (2.4–4.0 lb)
>Length avg. 100–130 cm (39–51 in)
>blade: avg. 90–110 cm (35–43 in)

>arming sword
>Weight 1.1 kg (2.4 lb)
>Length 90 cm (35 in)
>Blade 75 cm (30 in)

Clearly not the same weapon

Forgot to add that
>it being a one hander is something DnD made up
is wrong as well. Longswords had different sizes and the ones that weren't really long could be and were used with one hand as well as with two hands

... What? I'm not suggesting the Longsword and the Arming Sword were the same at all, I'm saying the "Longsword" in DnD is actually an Arming Sword since it's expected to be a one-handed weapon.

A longsword is a well-balanced two-handed sword, a Broadsword is a type of Scottish arming sword (one-handed sword)

what is a side-sword

Girth

The moveset. Personally I prefer the longsword in case of close encounters in closed spaces, being able to stab is a must for me.

>'In historical terms' they didnt use hard classifications of swords. It was a sword and some of them were longer and shorter than others. It's only from the victorian and onwards that we look back and classify them into hard groups based on characteristics.
/thread

the sword you're wearing at your side, duh

In my setting people just call them all "swords" because it follows what people did throughout history. Out of game it's to avoid autistic arguments like this.

The linked video mentions multiple times that it does have to do with width. It even says that in medieval times descriptors were simple, literal modifiers of the term sword, so the literal interpretation is the one most faithful to a historical context.

I find it really boring when the GM is incapable of describing weapons properly.

But yeah, call your ignorance avoiding autism all you want. I can simply walk out of the table, plenty of non-shit DMs out there.

Basket hilt swords ftw.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics you use to swap "I understand but I'd rather not mire my game in pedantry" with "incapable of describing weapons". Very sophomoric.

That's a rapier, dumbwits.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics you use to swap "People just call them all "swords" to avoid autistic arguments like this" with "I understand but I'd rather not mire my game in pedantry". Very sophomoric.

He says the Victorians called the basket hitled sword a broadsword because the width of the blade was wider than the swords (sabres) they were using at the time but mainly because they had a basket hilt. So other swords that had a basket hilt but had the same width as Victorian swords and were curved could be described as broadswords while medieval swords couldn't.
>medieval times descriptors were simple, literal modifiers of the term sword, so the literal interpretation is the one most faithful to a historical context.
That's only for the medieval times not for early modern times and especially the 19th century. Besides medieval people as he says rarely or never used the term "broadsword".

Basically people should stop using that term because it creates all this confusion.

pic related

There's no reason at all to prefer the Victorian or modern classification methods when referring to medieval fantasy.

Except there is, to avoid confusion.

the middle ages didnt use consistent terminology, most people weren't obsessed with proper classification. so it's whatever you want to.

someone didnt pay attention when watching easton senpai

It's less confusing to use literal terminology. Since sword autists are a minority, them adapting to the general public is also easier than the general public adapting to them.

In the middle ages hardly anyone knew how to read or do anything besides their menial chores.

Doesn't mean that also gets transferred into the fantasy setting.

Give your fantasy world some education.

see

Okay? Why would you link that irrelevant post to mine? No idea what my brain is suppose to think when reading that.

i would like to avoid putting too much modern stuff into my fantasy, a thing that has plagued american-style fantasy for a long time from my humble pov

Medieval people didn't use the term either. Also by this logic we should all speak medieval English or French.

it means proper terminology is a modern thing and not evocative of times past

>american-style fantasy
Is there any other 'fantasy style' fantasy other than America? America rules the world, bitch.

Where am I wrong?

I never claimed I wanted historical facts in my fantasy. So again, don't really understand why you link that post to mine.

Oops, meant as a response to

Weapon terminology is good for stats. A longsword is going to wield differently than an arming sword so they should have different stats.

>longsword and a broadsword?

The former is a thing, the latter is basically a term that was used for one-handed swords by some folks from the 17th century who couldn't pronounce "Haudegen". during the 20st century it was then used to describe any cruciformed main character's sword in fantasy novels that wasn't a 16th century two-hander or a short sword.

Yep, a good DM can give special perks to weapons too, such as these type of swords which are harder to drop.

You can dig really deeply into weapons history for that stuff. The schiavona in particular was designed as a defensive weapon for a nobleman's bodyguards, so you could also give an enchanted one a bonus to defensive stats or user health, or make guarding another character a free action. Sabers could deal damage from speed instead of strength when used from horseback. Cutlasses could get a damage bonus within a given distance of water since they were naval weapons.

Stats are a means, not an end. Even if I agree with you that terminology is important, there's no reason to force people to adhere to the convoluted terminology used by sword experts. Literal terminology is more faithful to the target time period, easier to use and understand, and has wider acceptance among modern fantasy fans. Language evolves to fit those who speak it. Expecting people to change is putting the cart before the horse.

Ohh, those are some good ones. Cutlass is my favorite one.

How would you differentiate a zweihander from a longsword?

>Literal terminology is more faithful to the target time period
Go away historyfag

"Longsword" never meant anything historically so just use the DnD/JRPG definition. Zweihanders were fuckoff huge two handed swords like claymores or greatswords.

I'm not even a historyfag, if anything I lean in the other direction. The reason I use that as one of my justifications is because it's the only justification that sword autists can try to use, "historically it's not X, it's Y". Since you even lose that argument, there's nothing left for you to stand on.

Zweihander is a German greatsword, similar to a claymore, which is a Scottish greatsword. Greatswords in general are swords with broad, long blades over 5ft in length with long hilts for using two hands.

The zweihander is bigger than a greatsword though. Isn't it like the biggest?

The problem is you agreed with him but worded it as if you didn't.

Don't worry, you're both autistic.

>I'm not even a historyfag
Then stop typing like one. Never argued with you so not sure how I lost.

Stop typing like one? Most of my post was not about history. If you were a sword autist trying to win an argument though selective quoting and belligerence, at least you'd have a comprehensible motive. But nope, you're just retarded.

Sure, whatever you say historyfag.

>there's no reason to force people to adhere to the convoluted terminology used by sword experts. Literal terminology is more faithful to the target time period, easier to use and understand, and has wider acceptance among modern fantasy fans
Actually is sort of the opposite. DnD and such started categorising everything which made everything more complicated. Take a look at this thread, it all started because DnD wanted to add "broadsword to the list of weapons. Sword experts though don't make things so complicated and are actually easier to understand (though they CAN get more complicated with subcategories of types of swords but I'm not suggesting to go to that level and even then it's still easier to understand them than the mess DnD created).

>Language evolves to fit those who speak it.
It evolves but not always in the correct direction. A language should become richer not poorer.

See what I'm talking about? These guys think that a zweihander is different than a greatsword when in reality they're the same weapon just with different names. I think the Italians call it montante. Roleplaying games once again making things more complicated.

Wrong. It doesn't matter how medieval people or victorian people used these words, words change their meaning over time, what counts is that right now "longsword" and "broadsword" mean exactly what they say.

Here user, I'll teach you a magic trick.

Step 1: pick up literally anything in two hands
Step 2: be German (you can do this first if you prefer)

Congratulations! You just found a zweihander.

Yes, the DnD community categorizes things differently than sword experts and sword experts categorize swords differently than olympic fencers - especially when you consider different languages -, and meanwhile someone who doesn't know anything about swords would look at any of the hundreds of types of bladed weapons and use the same word to categorize all of them.

Of course different communities use different words to often categorize the same stuff. We're discussing fantasy weapons as categorized 40 years ago by some wargame nerd. In our circle, a broadsword is simply a longsword with a broader blade because that's the meaning we know.

This only proves your circle is shit. It doesn't do anything else than that.

A longsword is a two-handed sword. A broadsword is a term that gets used to describe a lot of different swords through history. If you just say "Broadsword" and try to use it in a historical context you're essentially not providing any useful information.

This is more or less the case, though the distinction of a long-sword was used at the time simply to distinguish it. Two-handed swords really took off at around the same time as plate in no small part BECAUSE of advances in armor rendering shields less important and freeing up a hand. Generally speaking, in europe, the distinction between one-handed swords and longswords is probably one of the only advancements in sword technology that actually had a recognizable impact on how they were used in battle.

The way you used a spatha was more or less the same way you would use all swords for quite a long time until longswords came around, and pretty much all of them (though they did have noticeable changes) were probably just called "swords" by everyone at the time.

Your post proves you're a retard who can't understand that words don't have universal meanings. Try having this discussion with any historian and you will get the same answer.

>getting this mad because his shitty group is bad
kek, not my problem pal

You can counter the brodesode using the fyre of wroth.

>sword experts categorize swords differently than olympic fencers
That's because they use different weapons
>and meanwhile someone who doesn't know anything about swords would look at any of the hundreds of types of bladed weapons and use the same word to categorize all of them.
Someone who plays DnD should know basic types of medieval weapons just like someone who plays ww2 wargames knows the rifles each army used
>We're discussing fantasy weapons as categorized 40 years ago by some wargame nerd. In our circle, a broadsword is simply a longsword with a broader blade because that's the meaning we know.
And that should change because it adds confusion and the categories weapon experts use are much better and can be more historical.

Man, that's an old meme. Which is completely appropriate.

When the last star dies, and the last energy stores are utterly spent, the last communication systems will send final fond farewells to what remains of life before all is utterly silent.

And then someone will post HEY GUYS WHAT DID I MISS

That make sense in old school D&D, where you just had short, long, broad and two-handed as simple physical descriptions, a short sword could be a gladius or a messer, a broad sword could be a type X or a type XIV. It got confusing when they started adding new weapons using more specific terminology, even the writers couldn't decide if 'broad sword' meant a 'barbarian' sword or a basket hilt.

If it's primary function is to be held in one hand it's not a longsword.
And while technically one can wield a weapon meant primary for two handed use in one hand, at least lighter specimens, it's not really effective and you should only do that if said two-handed weapon is all you have, and you're in dire need of leaving your other hand free.
Clearly shield + "bastard sword" set is a BS. It is plainly better to just have arming sword in such configuration.

So, naming aside, "versatile" swords are the most made-up, artificial thing here.

youtu.be/Cx8sl2uC46A?t=262

A longsword is supposed to be used with two hands but it can be used effectively with one hand. It just depends on what kind of longsword you're using. If it is a short longsword then yes you can definitely use it with a shield. It also depends on how big and strong you are.

Versatile swords is not made up. For example in Victorian England there was a debate about if a sabre should be a thrusting or a cutting weapon. Some preferred straight and pointy sabres designed for thrust and some others preferred a very curved sabre designed for cutting. And then some others argued for sabres designed to offer both thrusting and cutting capabilities albeit without the full power of each. That was a versatile weapon.

>the categories weapon experts use are much better and can be more historical.
They're not, though. They're a continuation of bone-headed Victorian traditions. It's bizarre how they worship the Victorian public's classifications and shun the utilitarian terminology of the modern public.

>short longsword
Those were made for short people to use with both hands. Like halflings.

Real human beans use long longswords with two hands.

The sex of the sword.

did you just assume its gender? it can self identify as a gladius if it wants.

Broadswords are favored by women of loose womenhood and poor chastity.

length vs girth

One is a full covered hilt on a medium sized single edged blade, and the other is a large two handed double edged sword designed to be used much like a polearm.

>A longsword is supposed to be used with two hands but it can be used effectively with one hand

Ha ha ha nope, that's a bastard sword, AKA 'hand and a half' sword.

sir, what do you think a longsword is

it's a form of bastard sword

>sir, what do you think a longsword is
>it's a form of bastard sword
Isn't it the other way around?

>get stabbed with a longsword
>dude is really proud of how long his sword is
>honestly, blade is so thin that I barely even feel it
>have to fake this big scene where his sword is so hurtful and lethal and ow, it feels so big inside me to not hurt his feelings
>die unsatisfied with a sword that never really touched the sides

>get stabbed with a broadword
>penetration depth is completely fine
>wound is totally stretched out at the sides, I'm in so much pain right now
>basically the best stabbing I've ever had in my life
>die in a filled-out rapture

what if they meant the two-handed straight double edged sword that is sometimes called "long sword" despite being maybe only a few inches longer than an arming sword?

>distinction between one-handed swords and longswords is probably one of the only advancements in sword technology that actually had a recognizable impact on how they were used in battle

You've forgotten the development of the closed hilt. It significantly changed guards and defensive techniques.

Such as the standard position being one with the sword arm forward, and somewhat extended in front of you.

You don't do that with an open hilt.

Nice work you sick fuck, now I feel like getting stabbed

Opinions are clearly divided on that count, I'm prepared to abide by the opinions of Sir Richard Francis Burton.

nice to see i'm not the only woman on Veeky Forums

H O B B I T O N
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why is it called a bastard sword?

Apparently nothing sense both can be categorized as arming swords.

I'm totally a dude, sorry senpai.

A longsword is a two-handed sword. A broadsword is a one-handed sword whose blade is broader than a rapier and isn't a sabre, perhaps referred to as an arming sword, basket hilt or backsword depending on eras.