Non gw wargame

Op, do what this wise user said.
I mostly paint, Ive only played two 40k games and it sucked learning all the rules and codex and general clusterfuck, and some aos games were the streamlined rules are are blessing if you have shit to do and just want to relax. This game has complicated stuff but the rule book cover that and gets pretty easy to get through, also asking in your local gw/flgs for a game and help is pretty easy as they last an hour at most.
Miniature wise you only need one box usually and you can go wild from there if you feel like it, so with the rule book (you can always ask for the one available in the shop anyway if you don't want to buy it or download a PDF, up to you) and the squad you're under 90€ and ready to rock. Well plus hobby supplies but that's a given whatever you do man.
Also it's a pretty fun game and people like me or most of my friend that don't like wargaming got into it easily, getting some different armies isn't hard or expensive either so it's a pretty sweet game. Soon they will do something similar with aos I think if you like fantasy stuff more.

I love me some Warmachine, but players tend to skew a bit on the competitive side. That can be fun, but pick up games are hit and miss as a result if you're after casual.

Recently I started looking into Konflikt 47 to scratch the casual itch. The setting is an alternate history WW2 based on the Bolt Action rule set. It's just enough sci fi to pique my interest with monster units and walking tanks. It's a very new system (

It depends if the popularity of the game matters. Infinity is nice game, but requires some time investment to become familiar with the rules, so outside of simplified demos it really doesn't fit for games with non-wargaming friends.

Malifaux has detailed statcards with laid out special rules, but I feel you run into similiar problems if you want to run varied games, as interactions and synergies between models is much more ingrained into the system.

My personal favourite of systems for their lightness is EDEN, from Taban miniatures, but that is rather obscure and the translation from french isn't always perfect and models are rather soft and fragile. Still, I learned the game pretty much instantly, the games are small and fast (lesser than hour, I remember finishing and packing the game before the Malifaux game that started roughly at the same time finishing it's second game) and despite the really limited model count (most factions field 5 or less models) the game feels tactically deep and satisfying. I played for years with only a handful of models without it feeling repetitive.

I will look into it then, as I already have my old 40k models
Konflikt 47 may be a bit too casual. How much do you have to invest for a standard warmachine game?
Jokes on you I am french. But you made a point, I guess I will check which games are popular on my local hobby stores. The game models of eden are absolutely gorgeous though.

As an Infinity/Malifaux player:

Infinity has kinda steep learning curve for newbies. Doubly so since tactics trump lists and a new player with the most ridiculous netlisted army will get stomped by mediocre lists played by someone who knows what they're doing. There are some tutorials and the mini-campaigns from the new 2-player starters do a decent job leading you in part by part, but it's still a lot to take in.

Malifaux is the other way around - the basic rules are pretty simple, but then each model has their own stat card and their own skills which may or may not exist on any other unit. If you want to be able to know what your opponent's gonna do, you want to know his units' skills. This adds up. And you make the list ad hoc before the game (after seeing mission objectives), so making a simple list to avoid information overload is not that easy.

tl;dr: Infinity starts hard but gets easier, Malifaux starts simple but ramps up later.

thanks for the explanation m8. Community wise, which game do you think has the strongest support ?

Starter kits are about $80 on Amazon, and have a 1000 point army. That seems to be the standard game size as well, give or take a couple small specialist units.

A 1000 pt force contains about 25-30 infantry, one tank, one mech, and a specialist squad (usually heavy infantry).

Depends on the setting.

Here (Warsaw, Poland) Infinity is very active while Malifaux has a smaller but actively moving meta (at least 4 separate places to game I know of, tournaments once a month, etc.).

You might wanna check if there are any local representatives (Infinity Warcors and Wyrd Henchmen respectively) in your area. The official websites or forums should have a list of those.

This.

Technically a higher model count but at a smaller scale, Flames of War is pretty good. The game has gotten more streamlined, especially with stat cards coming out for all the units. Very cheap if you use plastic soldier company infantry and Zvezda tanks.

Play historicals, or empire of the dead, or malifaux, mercs, the list just goes on. The world is lousy with wargames.

There's Kings Of War, the rules are indeed sleek- the model count could be large though but you can just use a paper army for the hordes ect.

>I don't want to spend too much money on it and carrying a truckload of minis is a hassle so GW is out of the question.

Why don't you just play lower point games?
My Eldar army is 18 models.

Infinity suffers a bit from having a heap of special rules, but at least they're really well laid out in the rulebook and there's a well-maintained wiki.

It's a pretty fun game, anyway.

If you're after a super casual game and a you're just going to be playing with friends, the DC Universe game by Knight Miniatures is pretty fun, and only needs 4-7 models per side. Community is very tiny though.

Infinity and Malifaux are also pretty fun, although they're a fair bit more complex. They both have a pretty decent sized community, although it might vary based on where you live idk. Plenty of players around my neck of the woods at least.

Honestly I'd recommend against Warmachine; it's not a bad game, but it's not really chill and casual, and you need a fairly large number of models (30-50) to play.

...

Other options:
Historical wargames over in /hwg/ 'alternative' wargames (non-historicals without their own general) over at /awg/

Lurk the alternate wargames general.

>i dont want to spend too much money on it and carrying a truckload of minis
Oh you should go back to not being into it.

Imagine being so badass you can sock an Ork Boy right in his oversized jaw and knock half the teeth out of his ugly xeno skull.

Out of curiosity, what would those 4 places be? I know of one, but it's inconvenient to get to.

On a similar note, what are the most popular games outside of warhammer? There is wmh which I think is a close second, then Malifaux, Infinity and Guild Ball are far behind but about on the same level. Am I missing something? Are there any popular warhammer/warmahordes scale games or is it just all skirmishes?

Aside from historical games, it's all going to be skirmishes. Only 15mm really deals with large-scale, and those tend to be generic "use any models you have" things.

Actually I like kings of war because you can use staggeringly few models if you want to.
It doesn't care about individual models but the collective base of the unit. A diorama base with a few minis dramatically arranged can stand in for 5 times their number. Units don't physically get smaller in kings of war, they just break eventually. So you don't remove each model as they die.

I don't think there is any concrete way to know for sure. Even obscure games can have strong local metas, so it doesn't really matter.

I understand X-Wing to be the most popular tabletop mini game, at least in the USA.

I think it's still 2nd behind 40k in the UK

GC, FGB, Agresor and some club in Ursus.

try X-wing
>only need a few models, especially if you just playing casually
>sleek rules (for now)
>fun

You don't need to spoiler that last one.

I'm not a huge fan of X-wing for several reasons, but I'll never deny that it's a fun game.
Especially when playing at low levels - I really like how the starter box and it's demo scenarios play.

i like mordheim

>using the f-word
JFC man, put a trigger warning on that.

>Skirmish level (10-20 miniatures, each requires lots of terrain)
Infinity - Scifi Setting, "it's always your turn" thanks to the aro mechanic,
Malifaux - Steampunk/fantasy setting
Frostrgave - Fantasy setting, campaign system, use whatever fantasy miniatures you like, explore reaper miniatures gigantic catalouge
Bushido - Japanese fantasy setting, played on 24x24" with low terrain count, small community
Guild Ball - Fantasy football, compareable to Warmachine/Hordes
Armageddon - GW's grimdark 40k, sold out, very simple campaign
AoS Skirmish - ??? tba...

>Mid Level (20 - 40 miniatures, usually 48x48", 6-10 terrain pieces)
Warmachine/Hordes - Steampunk/fantasy setting, big robots punching beasts, prices reached GW height
SAGA - historical viking/crusader setting, battleboard mechanics, models usable for multiple factions (irish peasant looks the same as a viking one), lots of fanmade adaptations (samurai, fantasy orcs, dwarves, elves, etc.)
Bolt Action/conflikt 47 - historical ww2/alternate history, random order of activation mechanic,
Blood Bowl - GW fantasy football

> Big Army level (40+ miniatures, big table needed,)
40k - Grimdark
AoS - Turbo Fantasy
Dropzone/dropfleet commander - scifi
Kings of War - fantasy
Flames of War - ww24
Gates of Antares - sci-fi

lesser model count means more complex rules and more dependence on terrain.
high model Spam or min model extreme possible in every system

Stick to the guys in your lfgs or gaming goup for deciding the system

>Warmachine/Hordes - Steampunk/fantasy setting, big robots punching beasts, prices reached GW height

The prices are somewhat mitigated by the fact you don't need as many models, but yeah, they are getting a bit eye-watering in places. The game itself is great though - the rules are very tight, it's obviously designed to be played competitively, but so long as your group isn't too cut-throat and obsessed about tournaments it plays just fine as a casual game. Balance problems exist but they aren't as pronounced as in GW's games - I play a mid/low-tier faction and still feel like I can hold my own against the most powerful armies.

Try Two Hour Wargames at twohourwargames.com. Learn one set of mechanics and play many periods. 5150 is their sci-fi game and can be played with any figures you already have.

Infinity and malifaux are both good games and nothing alike, so depending on setting and rules, you should pick one of those.

WM/H is a good game when compared to GW....but its really not. Instalose conditions, poor balance leading to spam and lack of player interaction beyond a few cornercase abilities makes it boring.

Beyond the Gates of Antares

The rules are simple but have a good amount of depth to them, the game is a recent release (2015) and is still being supported with new releases and supplements. The model count is going to vary based on which army you play and at what points level, but a reasonably sized game is going to use 20-30 infantry/drone models and maybe a support vehicle. A starter army will cost you about 65 USD, could be more or less depending on the army and what point level you're starting at.

The big failing of the game is the barely existent community. I hope you can drag friends into it, because you're not easily going to find a game otherwise. For what it's worth, the few players the game has seem to be pretty laid back.

You might also look at it and think it's a 40k derivative, especially since it's written by Rick Priestly, but both fluffwise and mechanically it's a pretty different game.

>AoS - Turbo Autism

>The prices are somewhat mitigated by the fact you don't need as many models

I've always found that argument bollocks. You're paying GW prices for what really isn't even remotely gw-quality, be it looks-wise, material-wise or in terms of pure modelling craft. As a wm/h player, that angers me greatly.

The whole point of wm/h in my eyes is the ruleset. It's far from balanced, but if you can arrange with the competitive mindset of most of its players it provides a good competitive playing environment.

Flames is pretty big and not a skirmish, but as was said it is a 15mm game so the minis are smaller.

Depends what you and your friends love for aesthetics, theme, and time.
Having said that, Malifaux is 2 hours minimum for games, but has the great thing that you can pay $100 and have a full crew, often some flexibility.
Depending on your definition of wargame, you might enjoy X-wing (45 minutes, simple star wars dogfighting). But yeah, sci fi, historical, fantasy, give us more guidelines.

Shadow War isn't the worst, but it's still GW rules, theme and miniatures, with all that entails.

To be fair Guild Ball requires very little terrain. It really is going for the Warmachine crowd in that aspect.

To expand on X-wing - huge tournament and casual scene, quick to play, quick to learn, 99% of lists fly 2-4 ships, so not a huge investment. Just proxy upgrades unless you become a tournament guy, fly casual, and have fun.

>sleek but not overcomplicated rules
>friends in a fun and casual way

>I am mainly interested in Infinity and Malifaux, but also considering warmachine

of all three, wm/h has the least complicated rules and the card system gives deckbuilding quite an mtg feel. if you only play with friends, it can be fun and casual, but its ruleset enables many kinds of turn 2 kills and the overall community is really competitive.

infinity and malifaux imo have a more satisfying ruleset and gameplay, but both are somewhat complicated and it's harder to get friends casually into them.

if you're willing to consider other systems:

X-wing has nice comfy rules and little initial investment and a big community of both casuals and competitive players but, it ofc completely lacks the building and painting aspects of the mini wargaming hobby.

frostgrave has a light ruleset, you can use a wide variety of miniatures, low initial investment, it can almost only be played casually, well be introduced to friends and it has a bit of classic rpg flair, but a small community.

shadow war armageddon has good quality minis, fairly low initial investment and a fairly large playerbase, it can be introduced casually etc. however, it's gw so the ruleset is based on 40k and the minis aren't exactly the cheapest, though you don't need many of them.

Kensei.

kickstarter.com/projects/1372111648/kensei-samurai-tabletop-wargame

>wm/h has the least complicated rules
What a shit opinion. Of course ,WM/H is a shit game played by tryhards, so I'd expect it.

>What a shit opinion.
he's right though
>maulfaux has similar mechanics but with more overloaded cards, more states of play and weirder things.
>infinity's rules are complex outside of the bread and butter

>>WM/H is a shit game played by tryhards, so I'd expect it.
Can't disagree with that
>picked it up for a short stint
>old players introduce new players to the game with tourny lists and laugh about stomping them.
>advocate using only the most meta units.
>most of them go full sweaty tryhard when they are losing and fight every rule down to the minutia

Don't forget ugly copypaste models and no character to the game.

>kickstarter
>as any wargame to get into
>implying any support won't vanish into thin air