Currency

>electrum more valuable than gold
Do you idiots know what electrum is?

My thoughts exactly.

>Diamond
Does DeBeers exist in your setting?

Nah. That's for the Rite of Ashk Ente.

Also, metallica isn't worth much these days.

>or employing a million people for one day.
How does that work? Do you break the egg into a million fragments?

Ah, my bad. It's Procol Harum for money, and Pink Floyd for summoning Death, right?

I do believe precious gemstones are available from your next door friendly bearded midget company Gromnilson & Son Co.

Rarer than gold as a natural forming ore before an alloying technique was invented?

Yen-like systems are better.

Doesn't take into account the weight and volume of coins for conveniences sake. Lugging 50 copper coins for a single days wage can get more difficult the more it would take to convert. 1:10 ratio values would make more sense I think.

You exchange it for a million pieces of gold coinage from a buyer or exchequer.

If you haven't got a method of smelting gold and silver, you're not going to be making coins out of them. If you have, it's only logical that you'd put silver in your gold for reasons of seigniorage.

>alloys exist as soon as you can work metal
How about no.

Care to explain?

Are you retarded user? It's literally just 'you put silver in your gold'.

No, no it isn't.

No.

Then your opinion is worthless.

I think the obstinate cucķ means one without cents/denominations, so there's no fractions ir different tiers. One currency size fits all.

Too busy jerking it as the Bull fucks his Yamato waifu to argue in favour od it apparently.

Yeah, that!

10 to 1 conversion is the easy way to do things, and since you can vary coin size, it's not unrealistic, even if you base coins on Roman exchange rates for metals (and of course, this being a fantasy world, you have broad latitude to make metals as valuable as you want them to be). But if you go for coins of relatively equivalent sizes based on late Republic / early Empire values of metals, then you're getting something closer to 50 to 1. But then copper asses were a good deal larger than silver denarii to provide for a 16 to 1 exchange rate. In the end, I'm not arguing for any particular way of doing things; just giving an historical basis that you could take into account or ignore, as you see fit.

The point is before DeBeers and co. an average ruby or sapphire was worth more than an average diamond and the parity didn't shift for the jew's jewel until the 20th century.

This is electrum. It is not some sort of precise alloy, it'll work with anywhere from 20% to 80% gold.

I had an idea for a currency system for a mathematical order-based setting like Mechanus. The units of currency are the platonic solids, or at least objects/metal in the shape of the platonic solids, with the tetrahedron being the least valuable, up through the cube, octahedron, dodecahedron, to the icosahedron being most valuable. Each one would be worth eight times as much as the previous, or the first prime number raised to the power of the second prime number, as opposed to the number of digits an arbitrary sentient species in the multiverse has. Also, 8^5 is about 3 times as much as 10^4, the ratio of the value of a platinum piece to a copper piece in 3.5, so the ratio of the value of the most to the least valuable piece of currency in the system is roughly similar.

Mate, alloying, especially with shit purity precious metals they had back then would've been a nightmare.

The only issue is that eveywhere else would be more than fine with using the arbitrary one out of convenience

You know the Lydians had solved refining silver to the point that pure silver coins were introduced in 570 BC, right? Only 30-40 years after they'd started adulterating the local 'pure' electrum with silver to make their coins cheaper to produce?

Fucking Ancient Egypt and Mycenae had worked out how to make copper-gold and iron-gold alloys in about 1000 BC.

>What's so hard to understand?
The part where an unskilled peasant only earns enough every day to afford one meal. Just that one meal. No clothes, no housing, no nothing. Outside of famine conditions peasants shouldn't be naked, unwashed and living in boxes (oh wait, they can't even afford those fucking boxes!).

That just adds to the flavor of having autistic clockwork robots or whatever make you exchange your normal currency for little shapes to satisfy their regularity fetish.

Mate, you are a fucktard. It is a fact that electrum was artificially produced by the Byzantine Empire, and it is probable that; based on the silver gold ratio in natural electrum found in Anatolia compared to that found in Lydian coinage; that it was artificially produced as early as 600 BC.

How would the autistic clockwork robots deal with the fact that their currency cannot be easily stacked, sorted, or counted due to it's irregular shape?

>Just that one meal. No clothes, no housing, no nothing.
>one day's food and shelter
Something don't add up.

>Lydians had solved refining silver to the point that pure silver coins were introduced in 570 BC

Yes and their highest valued currency was (presumed at least due to circulation, and the pedantic production standards) the trite, the electrum coinage.

The thing is it'd be retarded to try and purify all those valuable metals then use them to produce electrum, not to mention a fucking nightmare for the smelter. Hence why the carefully controlled and valuable electrum supplies were used in coinage, me saying it was difficult isn't me saying it was impossible.

It's funny, the real problem with electrum coinage was that it was so easy to mess with the gold level in it that foreign exchange rates were always shit, because the merchant couldn't be sure how much gold was in your electrum.

Electrum coins are only really useful either before you've managed to make something better or after you've standardised it to the point that everybody knows exactly how much gold is going to be in it.

Nightmare =/= impossible, but it does mean it's more expensive to produce it (therefore increasing it's value). Hence why electrum was generally considered more valuable in those days.

Don't forget to squash that frog on your way

>the coin that's partially gold and partially silver is worth more than the coin that's entirely silver
wow

>it'd be retarded to try and purify all those valuable metals then use them to produce electrum
You make electrum coins so your gold stocks will go further.

>He thinks he can kill the Avatar of Kek

Not being able to be stacked I can understand, but if anything being different shapes would make it easier to sort and count than every type of coin being a cylinder. And really stacking is only an issue for storage, for any day-to-day carrying and mercantile exchange coins would be kept in bags or pouches. For the long-term storage they could have fun with three-dimensional tiling and packing problems.

>the coin that's partially gold and partially silver is worth more than the coin that's entirely silver
And the coin that's entirely gold as well.
Except it'd cost more to do that then the 'increased' value of your gold stocks you idiot.

I'm fairly certain an autistic clockwork robot can make one helluva notDice tower. Then you have a Tower as a measure of money, and you have pocket dimension vaults full of notDice towers.

Is this a fake/edit? I mean it misses like 16 labels to explain all the things Zyklon-B has put in the picture.

>using metal as currency

It's legit

>And the coin that's entirely gold as well.
Do you have any sort of proof of that?

>Except it'd cost more to do that then the 'increased' value of your gold stocks you idiot.
Perhaps you have some sort of mathematics you can use to prove that?

>trumpfags rant and rave about private ownership
>yea but it's ours when we want it

oldestcoins.reidgold.com/article.html

And no I cannot prove it (how the fuck would we even begin to calculate the cost of labour, resources and the value of unbacked metals?) but it's a guess as to why they didn't alloy all their gold and silver stocks.

The law is squarely on the side of Kekistan though. Matt "Furry" didn't go to court to claim infringement of his intellectual property, but even if he did the judge (assuming he isn't a biased leftie cuck) would most likely rule that there has been enough of a "transformative element" to effectively make the pepe memes a different character (otherwise you'd only end up with like six Marvel characters, this "transformative element" clause is actually pretty important to the comic books industry). Alternatively you could also throw it on fair use of intellectual property through parody.

That said, Furry didn't do that. Instead he tried to kill an idea. Sad!

Some alloys, like electrum, are naturally occurring.

On the other hand, intentionally fusing the two properly requires you to hit about 1000°C, which could be a bit of a challenge if you can only just turn silver ore into metal.

Yeah, that's kinda sort,a neat-ish. Then you sit down to actually play with the fucking thing, and it's best quick forgotten, or it'll be just another fucking thing to keep track of. An annoyance. Unless you have a particular OCD thing about counting coins.

IRL these things would be a pain in the ass to work with, you want to be able to stack the fuckers.

>as opposed to the number of digits an arbitrary sentient species in the multiverse has.

Instead you arbitrarily decide to take 2^3, instead of 2*3, or 2+3, or 2!3, etc.

Of course, basically no real world currency follows the strict base ten (10 or 100) steps between coins of DnD. The latter has simply been designed to be easy to deal with using pen and paper, not in real life. For a good reason, that coin counting thing again you know?

And if you want to get into mathematical perfection of sticking to prime numbers times each other and platonic solids and shit then "roughly similar" sure as fuck won't do. Things are either equal or not, arbitrarily deciding that some specific difference is "small enough" won't cut it.

Depend son whether you're aiming to get a specific alloy, or just diluting down a precious metal with one less so.

>pure silver coins
For some given standard of purity. So, out of curiosity, how much silver exactly were in those? Even modern day "pure" silver coins often think 99.9% is good enough (those that are merely regular silver are probably 97.5%), some go to 99.99% instead, but an absolute 100% ain't happening.

>it's a guess as to why they didn't alloy all their gold and silver stocks.
You know what's a better guess? This

Superheroes you mean. There'd be only six superheroes.

Not really, they solved that by being ridiculously draconian laws and anal-retentive standards.

>Some alloys, like electrum, are naturally occurring
That was my point, naturally occurring alloys were the economic solution to achieving a valuable metal, the alloying process obviously not being a lucrative solution.

>frogposting

The whole system with different types of coins is a sacred cow of the DnD philosophy, and it serves no earthly purpose. Everyone counts everything in gold, anyway, and the system is too hopelessly simplified to be "realistic" if that's what you're after.

Just simplify everything down to 'coins', and assume that you're carrying an assortment of coins, gems and valuables of whatever type is in use. It works just fine for tons of other systems, and only leads to extra bookkeeping.

I disagree with you.

The system is arbitrary as it takes no account of inflation, the purity of coinage, supply of gold, silver and other metals against each other and the dominant economy. If it so happens that the setting in question has more gold than copper, the system goes out of the window.

Unless you are going for hard details and world building, there is no need to think about this too much, otherwise you will be disappointed.

This logic follows from an artificially created system measurements like the SI. A more believable, emergent monetary system would have coinage tied to weights and volumes of staple goods like grain and wine. The imperial system - and most of what was used in continental Europe before we went metric - was directly transplanted from ancient Rome, and it worked because the logic behind it was still valid.

That makes a pocketful of coins like a pocketful of dice. Kind of impractical.

While most groups don't sit and count out their gold and weight, it DOES come into play when you have particularly large sums. It also helps differentiate between gold, used for valuable goods and services, and copper/silver, used for cheap labor, food, and inns.

>it DOES come into play when you have particularly large sums
Not unless you go out of your way to make it so. If you do, in DnD at least, it just adds a Bag of Holding tax to your wealth gain. Parties that enjoy inventory management are extremely few and far between.

>It also helps differentiate between gold, used for valuable goods and services, and copper/silver, used for cheap labor, food, and inns.
Are you seriously so cheap that you're gonna spend time counting silver when you're sitting on thousands of gold? Not only that, but I don't see how that helps at all - I've never had any problems paying for lodgings or services in games that use credits, or dollars, or anything else.

Has anyone here worked up a full economic pricing of thing in their setting using Grain into Gold?
I'm curious how long it took you to do.

I'm always meaning to, but keep putting it off.

A metal which was extremely valuable up until recent history due to its rarity?

No.

>Heaven and Afterlife in the setting are a bit Chinese inspiried, being filled with laws and Lawyers
>Heaven needs a lot of currency for the souls in it and to pay their employees, plus when living people want to leave a sacrifice, they want to have a fair exchange rate
>Heaven and the nation's of the world now agree to make a heavenly mint, each Grace is a small porcelain coin, equal value on Heaven and Earth.

How's this?

I basically just use Grain into Gold's charts at the end, and try to price everything else in the world around that, including shifting magic items to compensate as necessary.

Basically I've just set 1GP as ~$100 in modern money for general purchasing power, shifting as necessary for what a fantasy world could/couldn't produce as easily as we could.

A fort with some basic utilities like a traveler's tavern and some stables costs something like 15,000 according to a 3.5 book and a 5e homebrew, which comes out to $1,500,000, which seems fairly reasonable to me.

It allows 1 copper to be $1, which is a mug of ale, and tossing a silver to a bard to be fairly generous for peasants. Things necessary for life will be cheaper than they are in our world using this system, because they're more commonly produced, whereas quality-of-life things will be more expensive than in our world. Overall, it's allowed me to come up with reasonable prices on the fly and to be able to justify them both to myself and to my players in a way everyone's been able to agree with.

If you can't alloy them yourself then a naturally occurring alloy is no different here than a pure metal. You have what you obtain from nature, with no way of making more or dilute it down. It's only when you can make the alloy, and fiddle with the composition, that it starts to matter that it's an alloy.

If you can cast bronze, early bronze age technology, then you can melt gold and silver together to make electrum, and add more silver to high-gold electrum. At that point, it shouldn't be long until people will find electrum far less valuable than gold.

It's also easier to justify a guard's wages of 6-10 GP a month using this system. It also makes the players getting money from tombs a pretty significant thing, because now they can buy a lot of manpower to get things done for themselves, which leads to a lot more player creativity and customization, whether that be in commissioning magic items, building houses or shops, or starting businesses, which I and my players like a lot.

Makes that +1 weapon that costs 1,000GP ($100,000) suddenly like buying a luxury car, which makes the blacksmiths suddenly treat them like VIP customers, and it explains why kingdoms aren't giving every single one of their soldiers magical weapons.

>Metallica
>Worth anything
This should only be valid for an 80's RP

just have your setting use a fiat currency geex

Aren't fiat currencies trash though?

Underage, please leave.

Flaxscrip and Hempscrip are better.

Actually I believe that's an old meme

>1 Green Groat=12.37 bronze shillings
>1 Bronze Shilling is equal to 1/5th of a sixpenny, or 6/9th of a Wet Bobhog
>A sixpenny is 3/4th of a Dry Bobhog, or 3.2 of a gold shilling
>A Dry Bobhog is 3.83 Young Tanners, or 1/8th of a Royal Groat
>1 Young Tanner is a 2/7th of a Eightpence, or 1 7th Rude
>A halfpenny is worth 2 eightpences

If you don't understand it, fuck off and play some WoW you fucking pleb

I fucked up my 5e campaign by trying to convert "gold" into silver and save Gold for actually big-ass expensive coins. So 1gp is worth like, a horse.

Except i forgot and gave the players a bunch of gold by mistake.

I L L U M I N A T U S

Fair use.

>Copper to silver ratio 100:1
O-ok...
>Silver to gold ratio 100:1
Are you fucking retarded?!

>Using money
>Not bartering in goods and services
>Not losing profits perishable goods

0/10 realism verisimilitude broken I bet u don't even have full plate viking shieldmaidens in ur games faggitz

You give the egg to a mercenary company who will raise it, like those Russians who raised the bear. At least, I think it was Russian military that raised a bear

>1 pound = 20 shillings = 240 pences
>loaf of bread costs half a pence, carpenter earns 3 shillings a week
What's so hard to understand?

>1 gold = 100 silver = 2,500 rubles = 10,000 copper
>1 silver ~ 1 USD purchasing power
Good enough for me.

Frankly I just like to have it so that one silver is equal to one dollar, coppers are ten cents and ten to a silver.
Gold can be 100, to make it so you don't need to lug a sack around just for cash to loot dungeons

This makes it easier to port costs of living into the setting, as well as other things like construction contracts, regular pay, etc.

PEPE LIVES!

>being this unironically triggered by a fucking cartoon frog
You do know that's why people post them, right?

It was the polish.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)

What about 10 gold pieces? Or 100? They're just thicker and wider.

4 farthings to the penny. the penny is marked as "d"
2 ha'pennies to the penny.
12 pennies to the shilling. the shilling is marked as "s" Both Penny and Shilling are silver.
20 shillings to the pound. the pound is marked as "L"
the pound is not called the pound, but is instead called the sovereign. It is minted of gold.

the thruppeny bit is 3 pence. there are 4 thruppeny bits to the shilling.
there are 4d to the groat, 3 groats to the shilling

the Noble is six shillings and eight pence, and is made of gold - until it was revalued at 8 shillings and fourpence. At which point the Angel is minted worth 6/4.
the half-noble is of course, 40d. 3 shillings and fourpence
the quarter-noble is 20d, or 1 shilling and eightpence. its the smallest gold coin.

the Mark is 13 shillings and 4 pence, but was not minted as a coin.

there are 21 shillings to the guinea.

What's so hard to understand?