What is your favourite health/wound/stamina system? What about healing?

This is my go to choice for subbing in hp where a full overhaul would be too hard.

You can die without bleeding.

You haven't explained when damage goes to wounds, rather than vitality. Is it only on crits?

I adore Legends of the Wulin's system. It's very abstract and narrative, but works great.

Most attacks in combat inflict Ripples, an abstract measure of the cost and attrition of combat- Minor injuries, fatigue and such.

On their own, Ripples do nothing, but particularly successful attacks can trigger a Rippling Roll, which can potentially convert the Ripples into a Chi Condition.

Chi Conditions are a simple concept LotW uses to accomplish a lot. Each one is a narrative clause tied to a mechanical benefit or penalty. For beneficial conditions, you get the benefit while obeying the clause. For example, someone with a Drunken Master Combat Condition, representing their fighting style, might get a bonus to rolls while having their character stagger around, take swigs mid fight and such.

However, the directly relevant kind is penalising Chi Conditions. Those force a choice upon you- Either you obey the narrative clause, or you suffer the mechanical penalty.

Take an Injury on your arm? Better figure out a way around it or stop fighting with your big two handed weapon or you'll eat the penalty. Take an injury to your leg? Better hold off on the high flying acrobatics.

It creates a really awesome combat dynamic. Over the course of a fight, generally everyone involved will accumulate Ripples to some degree, and that makes further attacks more and more dangerous. Suffering a few Conditions is a problem, but it avoids an absolute death spiral as you can always fight smart to try and work around the condition one way or another.

It should also be noted that Chi Conditions are more than just physical injuries. Social attacks or spiritual workings of priests can be used with the exact same rules, forcing an opponent to cower in fear or take a penalty, as a very generic example.

I believe that is correct, certain hits are serious enough to hit wounds. Also if you're out of vitality.

How would you feel if your character got a scar or a disability?

Ah good. Someone beat me to it.

It depends on the game.

Some games need something complex (TOR), someone somthing simpler and with more descripotrs than numbers (Monsterhearts), some don't need it (Fiasco).

I'd throw a tantrum and quit the session
>I've seen it happen irl

Wow, even your rough sketch is obtuse and impossible to fathom - ripples? chi conditions? "They do nothing, but...." Your explanation of the rules is just as opaque as the rules you describe.
Yeah, no thanks.

I'm not quite sure what about it is hard to understand? Especially when I gave specific definitions of the terms that seem to be confusing you.

You couldn't be more vague if you tried. What dice am I rolling? What are my difficulty numbers? How do I accumulate 'ripples'? How do I inflict 'ripples' on others? Why, for god's sake??? And what the hell is a 'chi condition', how do I use it, when, for what purpose? How do I protect myself from being 'chi conditioned'? Why would I? What does a 'chi condition' look like in real life? Or is it meta-currency for in-game-use only?
Your post is nothing but vague marketing platitudes with no description of real play. I could describe any edition of D&D the same way, with the same enthusiasm, the same non-critical appraisal of how "really awesome" and "simple" (to use your words) it is.
tl;dr - your post is uselessly non-objective.

...I was describing the damage system. Y'know, what the thread asked about. Which, even out of context, is conceptually sound and a complete whole that can be decently well understood.

I'm currently working on a writeup of the whole system for the currently ongoing LotW thread, but that'll take a while. If you want it you can wait like everyone else.

But I don't want it - is reading comprehension not a thing you do? Oh, and if you were describing a 'damage system', uhhhh, where's the damage brah? You failed if that was your purpose...

This is good, but it is harsh if you run a time sensitive campaign and something goes wrong. The heavy getting hit by a lucky shot and nearly dying means he may spend weeks in a hospital bed.

I like it, but it also makes life hell when you take damage. It almost ends up being too punishing in some cases purely due to the large variances in what can happen.

I feel like you're projecting on the reading comprehension thing. I give quite specific examples in the above post. Fuck, I even answer half the questions you ask in your post. Did you just not read it?

No one else's descriptions laid out the dice rolls. Fuck off

Saying that you gave specific examples is not the same as actually GIVING specific examples. Can you at least TRY to not be vague? Could you at least TRY to be specific?? Y'know, instead of writing a bunch of meaningless unintelligible nonsense and just SAYING that it is specific?
I believe you think you understand what you're saying: but so far you haven't said anything concrete - just a lot of handwaving.

I am looking at my post and looking at your comments and finding them hard to understand.

Unless there's an understanding gap? LotW is an odd duck of a system, it's very abstract and narrative while also being mechanically crunchy.

Things like Chi Conditions are an example of that. You make them up on the fly, creating a narrative clause and attaching it to an appropriate mechanical bonus or penalty. How you create it might determine things like intensity or the kind of clause you can use, but that's basically all there is to it, it's about as simple as I laid it out to be.

>What is your favourite health/wound/stamina system?
Depends on the type of game I'm trying to run or want to participate in. In gritty, realistic games I prefer damage to be something you accumulate and then have to roll against to not fall unconscious or die.

In more action packed games I usually prefer some form of pool system where you essentially temporarily spend your health to perform bigger actions. The trade off being that if you go super crazy one turn, you're leaving yourself more exposed the next.

>Things like Chi Conditions are an example of that. You make them up on the fly, creating a narrative clause and attaching it to an appropriate mechanical bonus or penalty. How you create it might determine things like intensity or the kind of clause you can use, but that's basically all there is to it, it's about as simple as I laid it out to be.
Explain this shit. I dare you.

See
When you run out of vitality, you're too tired to dodge/block/etc so damage goes to wounds.
Additionally, critical hits automatically go to wounds.
There are no critical hit multipliers in this version.
There is also a 2nd version of the toughness feat that adds to your wounds instead of vitality.
I forget how much it adds though.

I... Think I already did? I'm not sure what else there is to explain?

You have a narrative clause. 'Drunken Master', as an easy example. The name is pretty clear, but sometimes you can add a short description like 'As a natural master of Drunken Kung-fu, your eccentric and intoxicated fighting style gives you a distinct advantage'.

Then you attach a bonus to it, a benefit your rolls get.

Then, when you'd make a roll, you include that in your fluff. Describing a punch as a drunken stagger that suddenly turns into a lunge, for example. When resolving that attack, you'd apply the condition bonus, making it more effective.

It's an elegant way of tying fluff to mechanics, as well as letting you represent a lot of different things with a single quite simple mechanic.

>Then you attach a bonus to it, a benefit your rolls get.
Not the other guy, but is it just one bonus for everything like Fate does? The +2 or whatever?

Nah, there are multiple different types and intensities of bonus (and penalty) available. Action (a direct modifier to rolls) and Breath (greater or lower resource replenishment in combat) are two of the most common, but there are also ones that have long term effects, potentially enhancing or hampering the characters growth while the condition is in effect.

I should note here that those long term effects aren't permanent- They go away when the condition does.

>I... Think I already did? I'm not sure what else there is to explain?
Ah, there's your problem: you write unintelligibly, and do not understand that you write unintelligibly. And you continue to be blithely vague when I request specifics. You say things like "Drunken Master...the name is pretty clear....." What?!?! No it isn't. What mechanical advantages and disadvantages attach to 'drunken master' in lotw?? When and how are they applied?? When are they not?
THEN, you say this: >oh noes! you don't get one bonus - there's a whole spectrum of pluses and minuses! And then you give us two more undefined game-specific terms that none of us understand, as though this explains how the bonuses and penalties work. I mean: wha????
I want to understand this game.

>What mechanical advantages and disadvantages attach to 'drunken master' in lotw?? When and how are they applied?? When are they not?
>For example, someone with a Drunken Master Combat Condition, representing their fighting style, might get a bonus to rolls while having their character stagger around, take swigs mid fight and such.

>>For example, someone with a Drunken Master Combat Condition, representing their fighting style, might get a bonus to rolls while having their character stagger around, take swigs mid fight and such.
What exactly does that mean??? 'Might' get a bonus? Soooo, might not? What determines whether it 'might' or 'might not'????? What do you mean by 'having their character stagger around'??? Seriously, what does that mean? It apparently doesn't mean a die penalty, since the staggering around is meant to obviate the penalty...so, what does that mean????? How does 'taking swigs mid fight' affect things? What exactly does THAT mean?? Again, it's supposedly supposed to obviate any dice penalties; so what exactly IS it that the player and their character DO???????
You are great at obscurantism, user; but you utterly fail at being clear and explanatory.
Merely repeating verbatim the words we don't understand does nothing to help us understand.

So, all you can do is post obscure garbage without explanations? Either the game sucks, or your powers of communication are lacking.

Good job completely missing what he was asking multiple times. Please never get a job that requires you to communicate clearly.

It might apply a bonus to attacks described as such, because it could instead be a bonus to something else. Hell, depending on the exact mechanical bits tied to it, it could be a penalty. As for the whole "stagger around" thing: it's in how you describe it. So you describe your shitty movement and slow-but-heavy attacks to gain a bonus (or negate a penalty). Doing such things, however, limits your options and may make things more difficult for you (your shitty stumbling will never be able to get you onto of a roof from the ground, for example, while you wouldn't receive your bonuses if you described yourself hopping onto a cart and jumping up to the rooftop).

Also, you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.

It means exactly what it says.

Fluff yourself acting like a drunk, get a mechanical bonus.

Narrative clause, narrative effect.

It couldn't be fucking simpler.

*Mechanical effect

I shouldn't type this shit at 3AM.

post it you cuckmaster

I would love it (the scar), but I can tell some autists would hate it.

I'm fine with disability if the DM gives a way to circumvent it. Like fuck I lost a hand, can I get a hook in its place? A wooden hand gripped to my shield?

Disabilities don't necessary has to be a penalty forever, I don't think its really fun to penalize a character while the rest of the party is unarmed. But like I said, if the DM allows me to continue to function and makes the disability somewhat fun then sure, I can handle it.

See? You SAY it couldn't be simpler, then you fuck up the explanation yerself. How is someone WHO KNOWS NOTHING supposed to understand what you say when YOU DON'T EVEN SAY IT RIGHT??
Couldn't be fucking simpler, indeed.
You didn't help clear anything up. But at least you helped explain to him that he can't explain worth shit, and for that I thank you.

So, either of you care to take another crack at an accurate and edifying explanation?

Go fuck yourself you moronic shitcunt.

It's somewhat telling that multiple other people have been able to understand it, but for you I had to reduce it to fucking babytalk.

Here, I'll give you the "I'm retarded" example.
>Chi Condition: Broken Leg (Major Penalty to Footwork)
>normally provides a heavy penalty to movement and dodging
>this penalty is removed if you describe your character limping around, pulling themselves up things rather than jumping, blocking attacks rather than avoiding them, et c.

Hey, I'm not the one shilling a retarded as fuck system and claiming it's good. lotw fags always go on about how great their shit game is, but can never, ever explain it correctly.
>shitcunt
That's a great argument!
You have still managed to not explain a thing. Great work.

>lotw fags always go on about how great their shit game is, but can never, ever explain it correctly.
The system doesn't, either, so it makes sense.

I've been working on a more realistic gunplay system for myself for a while.

In simplest terms, everyone has 100 hp.
Let's say pistols do 30 damage, and regular rifles 50. Every time you're hit, your HP drops by the damage amount of the round, negated by armor/cover if there is any. So say you take a pistol round to the chest, you drop down to 70. You now roll percentile, if you roll 70 or below, you're okay. If you roll above 70, you're incapacitated.

If you take a rifle round to the face, you're gonna need to roll against the HP of 50, but first you make a death roll, and then your incapacitation roll.

This is more for a "skirmish" type of system, not so much a "developed character" system.

If you can't understand a simple conditional statement, then you're genuinely retarded. There's absolutely no way I would be able to describe it in a way you could understand if this is the case.

Blame the Chinese. They didn't want to take the first editor's advice, and bolted with the money before they could get another one. Jews of the East, the lot of 'em.

kek
Based user

>simple conditional statement
Erm, mebe you should start by explaining this term right here, user: you seem to like to use uncommon turns of phrase to make yourself feel educated. Try using words real people use.
>jews of the east
Wow, user: you really went there? That was dumb, user - your opinion is meaningless. Don't respond.

Is English not your first language? Serious question. Between your obnoxious writing style and complete lack of functional vocabulary, it'd be an alternate explanation to you just being a fucking idiot.

>ad hominem
Still got nothing? Big surprise. Fuck off, lotw shill.

>LotW shill

Where does this even come from? The thread was about interesting damage systems, I posted an interesting damage system.

Even if I wanted to shill for LotW, I literally can't. The company who made it imploded after the Chinese half ran off with Jenna Moran's kickstarter money. Fuck, I advise people to pirate the pdf rather than buy it to avoid giving money to Chinese thieves.

>I advise people to pirate the pdf
You don't have to make money to be a shill, shill. You admit that you are trying to sell people on the system; that's a shill. You gloss over complaints while insisting upon spouting marketing aphorisms; that's a shill.

...What? I feel like you've completely left the scope of the thread and the discussion at this point. What are you even fucking talking about?

She should've known what she was getting into. The culture there's abysmal and encourages that kind of shit. They need a good famine or two to remind them why you actually have to work for things.

>>>tell me about an interesting thing
>>here's a thing I think is interesting
>wow way to shill a thing by calling it interesting
Did LotW finally make it big and attract its own dedicated shitposter? Is it finally a real game like all the rest?

>I want to understand this game

I really don't think that you do.

Oh, I'm dying to have even one of my questions actually specifically answered. So far, no lotw shill has been able to provide specifics. They go on vaguely, like they don't know what they're talking about; but they have yet to answer even one of my specific questions. Can you answer them and help us understand?

Ask a specific question.

I understood him, you're just being obtuse.

Is there a mechanical difference to body part HP/wound levels? For example,
>your left leg's HP drops to zero/gets a Heavy Wound/etc
>you get a penalty to movement, jumping and dodging, but can use your other body parts normally to block attacks and climb

So, by your definition, literally anyone who likes and advocates for a game is a shill? Doesn't that make it functionally meaningless, effectively interchangeable with 'fan' and similar?

There is no HP or mechanical locational damage. It's all Ripples and Chi Conditions. Chi Conditions can be locational, as part of their fluff, but it's not necessarily the case.

You're being pretty aggressive and obtuse for someone actually interact in learning about it, but here's my attempt at an explanation

The ripple thing basically doesn't do damage in the traditional sense, but instead sets up the possibly of inflicting statuses that force the victim to either behave a certain way or suffer a negative effect, which can range from penalties to vaguer, more narrative problems. The system is mostly very narrative and loose

Oh, so you can answer all of the questions in this user's postwhat are ripples? chi conditions? pls explain.

Fans don't try to lure in folk; shills do. Fans don't care what other people think; they'll love their thing even if they are the only one on the planet loving it. Shills want you to buy into their game; they don't leave people alone; they lie. A shill is a promoter, not a fan.
Are you done with your strawman argument now?

>aggressive and obtuse
So, asking questions is aggressive and obtuse now? When did kids become wimps?

>Fans don't care what other people think

Hahahahahaha. Comedy fucking gold.

>The ripple thing basically doesn't do damage in the traditional sense, but instead sets up the possibly of inflicting statuses that force the victim to either behave a certain way or suffer a negative effect, which can range from penalties to vaguer, more narrative problems. The system is mostly very narrative and loose
Ok, if that's all you're going to say, then you must provide some sort of example, for god's sake. Because your post says nothing concrete.

You don't know any true fans. You just know posers. Posers worry about what other people think and want everyone to like what they like. Posers. Insecure posers.
Much like yourself.

Oh my god you are just a fucking treasure. Please, keep going, this is making my evening.

Successful attacks = Ripples

Ripples = Attrition, fatigue, minor injuries. No mechanical effect on their own.

Very successful attacks = Rippling Rolls

Rippling Rolls = Chi Conditions

Chi Conditions = Injuries and other harmful effects.

Dumbed down enough for you?

>everyone ITT right now

Alright, a super basic one would be something along the lines of
Maimed arm
The victim either acts one armed or takes a - X to actions involving their arms. So try to swing your two handed weapon, penalty. Try to climb, penalty, etc.

It also works on non phySical conditions, so you could have frightened or angry

Hey guys op here to collect what I'm sure are a bunch of informative posts and a lovely discussion of the topic.

Thanks!

>my favorite system is it depends....
You're supposed to say YOUR OWN favorite.

My favorite style of injury always involves a death spiral. Without a death spiral nobody prepares or cooperates properly.

So it's actually just

>Very successful attacks create negative status effects

Why couldn't somebody say this earlier? How does a character die? How do they heal? All just fluff too?

I like HP actually done as an abstraction. It's not perfect, but it's my favorite.

If it's the GM powertripping when there's no mechanics for it ("oh and the bandit's 1d4 dagger cuts your hand off LOL") then I drop that game like it was 8am Calculus.

If it's something that we already have game rules for that I approve of, then let's fucking do it chaps.

Either way I'm likely to retire the PC if it's some incurable no-more-fun type injury. Chances are the game writers expected us to dump such PCs anyway.

I like ACKS idea about potentially-lasting injuries happening when people run out of hit points. That sets a clear threshold and makes it an extremely bad idea to try and game the rules relating to unconsciousness and dying. There's no "lol I'll just heal him when he KO's" when you could potentially get a bad knee that way. And it gives players some control of it: They know the condition under which bad things happen, so they can do what's needed to make that less likely. And that in turn encourages more plausible behaviors like picking battles carefully and seeking alternative solutions.

Add onto that the notion that skilled and prompt medical attention can reduce the severity of lasting injuries. Say you roll a "hand is forever useless" result, but a strong medic with a surgeon kit turns that into "hand is jacked the fuck up but will recover to full usefulness with time and rest".

I also like shadowrun's approach to defense, armor, short-term wound penalization, damage, and healing. I don't like much about how the latest edition was written, but I do like that. Any attack can potentially be devastating (you're only human after all), but training and equipment make the difference between evading an attack, shrugging it off, and bleeding out on the floor. Also, those mechanics separate different types of defense so it's clear exactly what is happening in combat.

This. This is my favorite.

If you're going for realism, you'd be better off with a more detailed hit location and taking out HP all together. Maybe something like a hit location chart, with bigger rounds causing damage to adjacent hit locations as well. I'm thinking multiple organs and "flesh wound" locations.

For example, plugging away at someone with a .22 and never hitting anything vital will likely cause someone to bleed out over time, inflicting minor wounds to single hit locations.

A .308 to the chest could damage the lungs, heart, spine, and ribs all in one shot causing instant death.

If you're really after simulation, no roll should save you from being shot in the brain or heart. No matter how tough you are, you're not going to survive a brain pan pressure washing.

Then read the book you fuck. Jesus, how big is the spoon that mommy feeds you your cereal with in the morning?

yeah, that's covered - there's a chance to hit somebody in the skull and cause a concussion, sever the spine, puncture the heart, take out three of their five lung lobes. also. if you manage to get 3 20s in your Pain Resistance check, you can die from pain.

Autism

I don't have the book at hand, on account of not being a fucking furry.

I would have, otherwise.

GURPS has a lot of flaws, but the damage system is perhaps the single best part and imo the best system of its type.

HP is meat points, on average you dont have much HP, there's only a risk of death if you pass into negatives and the risk increases exponentially the deeper into negatives you get, at five times HP into negative you drop dead on the spot.

Short of that, if you fail a roll you simply pass out, you make rolls every minute and slowly bleed out if unchecked.

It's both completely realistic, and allows for cool fucking Boromir moments where you're in negatives, fighting for every second, yet you're still slicing through the enemy. Had a boss battle in a campaign where a fairly durable fucker with two SMGs ate 15 seconds worth of automatic fire to the gut and didnt even stop firing before finally passing out.

>not just swapping out the furshit for standard fantasy tropes

It's not that hard user.

That doesn't make the book itself less furry.

...

Shadowrun's box system was always great. Gave immediate consequences to getting wounded through the TN/dice penalties, it's lethal enough to be believable for the type of game Shadowrun is but not so lethal that lovetaps killed everything, and it's easy to understand at a glance.

>Why couldn't somebody say this earlier?

Go fuck yourself with a rusty rake. It was said, multiple times, and you proved too colossally stupid to understand all but the most overly simplified versions.

And this is one of the simpler parts of the fucking system. I have no motivation to explain any of the rest to you.

So like, everyone has 5 HP static forever?

Yeah, that's how wound systems work.

Instead, constitution (or whatever the system uses instead) is a matter of not getting damaged/injured by the hit.

Do you write for Gearbox? You're really good at coming off as an insecure preteen.

>I only skimmed the actual post in question so spoonfeed me because I'm mad that i don't understand because I didn't read the explanations.

>Welcome to Veeky Forums, how tough are ya?
>I ate a bowl of bait hooks for breakfast
>Without any milk