So the game currently uses a d10 pool system, but I'm looking to overhaul combat to use a more standardized system (possibly a fixed pool or something, with additional bonuses in place of bonus dice or something?) so that it's both easier to play and easier to implement new narrative-based combat mechanics.
Basically, I'd like to have the old combat system of raw damage -> HP changed to inflicting certain effects are particular thresholds (Healthy -> Grazed -> Injured -> Wounded -> Crippled -> KO'd -> Dead) or something similar, since I feel it's more conducive to how it should feel to play an episode of DBZ.
I'm thinking that I should probably either replace the d10 pool system with either one that has a set number of dice (ie: everyone has 5d10, with occasional bonuses, with higher skills and stats granting flat bonuses instead of additional dice) or some kind of standard 1d10 system or 2d6 system where you go to a crit table on a 10 or 12 or something, and that table has special damage effects.
Serious question not memeing Why not use a powerlevel system? Seems fitting for a DBZ RPG. If character A has a powerlevel of 500 and character B has a powerlevel of 1000, character B will take 50% less damage and do 50% damage to character A and also be 50% faster. This is how that one old SNES DBZ RPG works I think and it's really cool.
Liam Turner
how would this work?
Anthony Sullivan
What do you mean how would this work? Powerlevels are simple to understand.
Let me give an example. Character A with a powerlevel of 500 is battling B with a powerlevel of 1000. Let's say that A is of Burter's race, and all members of Burter's race are naturally faster. So he gets a 40% buff to his speed, meaning his speed (who takes an action first, etc.) would be treated as if his powerlevel was 700. Combat is about to start. Every action has a success rate. In the case of who attacks first, the higher the powerlevel level difference, the higher the success of attacking first. A d10 is rolled 1 - add nothing to powerlevel number 2 - add 10% to powerlevel number 3 - add 20% to powerlevel number 4 - add 30% to powerlevel number 5 - add 40% to powerlevel number etc. until 10
Character A rolls 6, character B rolls 3 Character A has 700, add 50%, that ends up at 1050 Character B has 1000, add 20%, ends up at 1200, he barely outspeeds character A and goes first. (Reminder that this is not their new powerlevel, this is just the number rolled for their speed during that action)
Character B decides to fire a Kamehameha. Every attack has a certain percentage modifier that increases the powerlevel (like how in the manga and show powerlevels constantly change with ki). Let's say B has three ki. One ki equals 10%. Kamehameha inherently has a modifier of 30% (I'm just throwing a random number here, have no idea how much the Kamehameha makes someone's powerlevel rise percentage wise). He spends all his ki to charge a kamehameha with a 60% modifier, so add 60% to his 1000 powerlevel, you end up with 1600. Let's say that the Kamehameha fires right away and does not need to be charged for several actions. Add the 30% from the ki to the 1200 speed number and the kamehameha's speed ends up at 1560. So the Kamehameha is going straight at A with a power of 1600. I have to go now but idea will be continued later. This was just something on the spot to give you a rough idea
Ayden Perry
Also my mistake if there is anything contradictory or confusing in there I typed that out very tired
Nicholas Cruz
>Powerlevels are simple to understand. They're also complete bullshit. I forget what the RPG's stance on the matter is though.
Jaxon Perry
You could just use a d100 and then change the effect on the die by a huge amount. If character A is 27% stronger than character B then in a very direct Melee exchange then character A would get +27 on his d100 roll. You could have skills and other things affect rolls as well. Essentially making the power levels a basic stat that gives characters an all round strength in certain areas while also giving characters variety and a way to defeat an enemy with a higher power level. Hell as a DM you could just give them static amounts of + and - based on how good you believe their plan to be. Player A has a higher power level (around 10% higher) but said some dumb shit as a plan while Player B gave a plan that almost completely counteracts Player A. You could give Player A +10 and Player B +40. For stuff like lifting boulders you could simply find feats in the series and link them to their powerlevel. For example Goku in early Dragon Ball moved a large boulder with some difficulty so if a characters power is equivalent to Goku's at that time then they would be capable of rougly the same thing.
Luke Ortiz
Powerlevels for a DBZ RPG at least make way more sense than the classic RPG stat approach. You can't explain the power difference between some farmer and Frieza unless you made all of Frieza's stats in the billions and Farmer's stats in the 10s, which would effectively be the same thing as powerlevels.
This also sounds good and similar to what I was trying to say
Nicholas Evans
How are Powerlevels complete bullshit? Throughout the series they show a reliable way to gauge a characters all around power and destructive capability. The Scouters are complete bullshit and don't accurately gauge the Z fighters actual power level as the Z fighters seem to manipulate Chi in a way differently than Frieza forces do. It seems like the kamehameha and tri-beam somehow multiply your power level based on the amount of Chi funneled into it whereas Friezas death beam is always firing off at the same strength (being Frieza's power level).
Blake Peterson
Has anyone here ran a successful dragon ball campaign?
Dylan Jones
Within the game this is reflected in the Tiers mechanic, with each tier of power reducing the target number for a success or increasing the chance that your die will explode.
They exist as fluff, and aren't mechanically relevant, the logic being that power levels weren't wholly relevant within the series itself, existing for the sake of being shown that they were useless. I only kept it there because it's an iconic part of the series for a lot of people.
Jordan Collins
Also, this is certainly a neat idea, but a bit more crunchy of a setup than I'd like to use. I think the one I have now is a bit too crunchy with all of the shit you have to track (Successes, Tiers, Bonus dice, Willpower, Tension, Ki regeneration rates, fate points, health, fatigue, ect). That's one of the reasons I want to simplify it.
I also want to simplify combat and make it more narrative as to prevent characters from getting their shit pushed in in like four hits, which is kind of a systemic issue with how damage is calculated. Some really simple setups have the ability to do massive damage, more than should reasonably be done in a single turn, and I'd like to do more to give characters a fighting chance than just inflating their HP and hoping it works.
Brody Price
Yes but no
because of scheduling
Christopher Lewis
The fuck is this
You left us for an entire year and this is what you've come back with?
You were supposed to save DBZ RPG
not destroy it
Luke Sullivan
>Power Levels are bullshit >But they're also cannon and important to every single fight in Z
Carter Sullivan
I've seen a PBTA DBZ game before and I thought this was it.
Austin Myers
I just want something that handles science fantasy kung Fu like Dragonball Z
Henry Torres
Hey REGALIA, how's it going? Been a long time. I was one of the playtesters on Roll20 back when.
Angel Murphy
>the logic being that power levels weren't wholly relevant within the series itself,
>Goku can't beat radditz because of his bigger number >Goku can't beat Vegeta because of his bigger number >Goku can't beat Frieza because of his bigger number >Frieza can't beat Goku because of his bigger number >Trunks can't beat androids because of their bigger number >Cell 2nd Form can't beat Vegeta because of his bigger number >Vegeta can't beat Perfect Cell because of his bigger number
just because they stopped telling you the number doesn't mean it isn't there
Brayden Brown
Just because you obsessed over Akira Toriyama's joke at the expense of other fight-anime doesn't mean he didn't completely forget about it or that he ever took it seriously to begin with.
Cooper Gonzalez
Why are Goku's eyes Green?
And why is Boomhauer dressed up as Frieza?
Aiden Edwards
>his joke >the thing that every single fight hinges on
okay
Daniel Bailey
>the thing every fight hinges on
Are you really that autistic?
DBZ is literally kung-fu Wuxia in space. No quantifiable limit exists in Wuxia outside the sole purpose to be proven worthless.... you know, like how it's repeatedly used in the series..
Jacob Thompson
>Wuxia >Wuxia
Just because it fits your magical chinese breathing tapestries doesn't mean that the way DBZ was told didn't entirely hinge on some invisible number held by antagonist and protagonist.
If it was really Wuxia, outside the laser beams and faux-chinese mythos angle, then characters would compete by merit of their training and technique and not because ME STRONGER NOW
DO MANY LIFTS
Wait- wait Kakkerot, I'm using my scouter to review every major victory in DBZ and it seems to have been BIGGER POWER related
if only there was a numerical value we could measure these powers by!
Oh god! Piccolo has a technique that raises his power level 3x! Scary!
Oh no! Vegeta is beating up everyone because of his giant power!
Whats this?! Vegeta was weaker than Dabura but- but HIS POWER got bigger!? HOW OH HOW
Joseph Jones
>Akira Toriyama's joke at the expense of other fight-anime Toriyama was the one that popularized the concept.
Benjamin Thompson
Even if you're right, and the entire satyrical spirit and writing style should be thrown out in lieu of autistically simulating a setting based largely off of puns from a senile old man (which you aren't,) we are talking about a GAME. Basing a game off of the war-system of "hurr-durr higher number just wins" is just plain bad game design. Abstract plateaus work much better both from a gameist perspective, and work better for recreating the actual feel of the source material.
Alexander Adams
Gotta be true to the source material.
Every punch, kick and beam should have a damage %. This % is multiplied by your current power level as it hits the opponent it is then multiplied again by the opponent's defensive % Whatever that number is then subtracted from the opponent's power level
Obviously saiyans get exp = to the damage they suffer.
Asher Rogers
For fuck's sake.
"Powerlevels are bullshit" in the sense that the way Freeza and his goons understood how they worked was completely and utterly wrong. The baddies thought it was innate talent that plateaus at a certain point, while the heroes showed there are no plateaus when you've got DEDICATION, HEART, and HARD WORK and all those other shounen anime morality lessons. Not that they didn't mean anything at all.
Fucking hell you people missed the point completely.
Parker Rogers
The DitV hack takes relative power levels into account as well as busting barriers.
Christopher Cook
Bullshit
"Hahah Power levels are dumb and autism!!!!"
yet they're always there
Even when the readings aren't working they're still there They're the reason why Goku beats the Ginyu Force He just hides his power level and raises it faster than they can read it
If they could sense Ki they'd know Goku had a big number.
They just don't call it a big number.
Carson Gutierrez
You either didn't read my post, or didn't comprehend it.
Jack Brooks
but you're fundamentally wrong because everyone says 'powerlevels are bullshit' in the idea that DBZ doesn't work on them at all.
DBZ always works on someone with a greater power quantity than someone else
Josiah Rogers
>everyone says 'powerlevels are bullshit' in the idea that DBZ doesn't work on them at all.
Robert Long
Power Level nonsense aside
Your problem is that your actual combat system is garbage. It's a shitty DnD "I attack, you defend" with no extra meat or grease.
You can't fix HP this way because you're keeping all the bullshit that makes your game bad in the first place.
What is the merit of an attack? If we just do it every turn without any sort of actual Game to Game with it, you really just do have an HP simulator. Maybe one that rewards your patience for waiting 20 turns for tension to go up to finally get to do BIGGER damage. Y'know, if two androids were scissoring or something
Oliver Flores
You fucking moron.
I'M AGREEING WITH YOU.
The problem is people spout "powerlevels are bullshit" thinking it means the numbers mean nothing, when the reality is the numbers mean something, they're just "bullshit" because he PTO thought they were static, and didn't understand the whole "you can make your numbers bigger almost infinitely with hard work" thing.
Daniel Turner
>It's a shitty DnD "I attack, you defend" with no extra meat or grease. The DitV hack tries to avoid that with DitV's 'bidding' system, where you basically bid on narrative control and back up every See/Raise up with fluff. Concept still needs a lot of work, though.
Dogs in the Vineyard, an RPG about Not!Mormon paladin/inquisitors in the wild west. Sounds like nothing even remotely close to something that could be used for a DBZ RPG, but the idea is just borrowing the 'players in a conflict bid for narrative control via dice gained through various abilities and traits, which have to be justified via the narration" mechanics, which actually COULD work for a DBZ RPG.
Still needs work though, but the basic concept is there.
Cameron Rivera
>the solution to DBZ RPG is to play something else entirely
I like it
Alexander Sanders
Are you interested in starting a project like this user? We could work together
Josiah Sanchez
I feel that this would also be one of the benefits of transitioning to a more narrative system. You're right, there's not really any strategy to combat, and that's something that would be easier to fix if I get rid of the massive numbers entirely.
So I'm thinking this (which was inspired by a combination of suggestions from the old suggestions doc and from some redditmail, oddly enough):
You have a damage track that represents tiered states of well-being. Players can use light attacks (standard attacks) to inflict damage within a bracket, up until they hit the next bracket of well-being, at which point they need to hit a sufficient threshold of damage with a standard attack (vs some target number derived from their opponent's endurance or something) to actually start inflicting damage in the next bracket. OR - they could use a heavy attack that forgoes a reaction to do so instantly, and as long as that attack lands it'll move them down a bracket (provided they've already emptied the one they're on).
Moving from bracket to bracket incurs one fatigue and also one damage effect related to that tier (Injured would have its own set of effects, most of which would amount to winding the opponent or imposing some sort of superficial damage like a broken nose, Wounded would have more grave stuff like breaking an arm or hand, and crippled would be losing limbs or getting holes blasted in you).
I'm also almost certainly going to add new techniques that act like feats that can make shit more interesting - like techniques that inflict damage effects from more severe damage brackets, or that could also move you from bracket to bracket without needing to do ridiculous damage, or something like that.
Essentially I'm aiming to create a meta around figuring out how to cripple your opponent as to make them easier to actually kill.
Justin Clark
Hey guys! Yeah, um, sorry, I guess. I just got really burned out on the project for a while and a whole bunch of real life stuff got in the way (had to move, had no job for a bit, but things are generally okay now) but after reading a bunch of Facebook messages and people hunting me down to figure out how to contact me to ask me about the game I got motivated to start back up on it.
I'm glad to see you guys stuck around.
Julian Allen
This is how the SNES DBZ RPG worked You had Ki, Health, and Battle Power, and also character level As you gained experience and leveled up you would gain more Health and Battle Power, but every character scaled differently (for example, level 15 Goku vs level 15 Chiaotzu). Ki would be gained from training at these special places in-between main boss fights. Saiyans had Zenkais, so if they are near death and are healed with a healing item, their Battle Power (along with Health I believe) would increase. There was actually an exploit to infinite level Goku in the Raditz boss fight by letting Raditz almost kill him and then heal back up, rinse and repeat until you wish to stop. Using this method you could make Goku so overleveled that he would oneshot enemies after coming back to life.
The battle system looked like this: you had a bunch of random cards, each with a different Attack and Defense stat, as well as a different Martial Artist symbol, that would appear when you enter a battle. Obviously, the Attack and Defense rating would influence your Attack and Defense. The Attack stat also determined who went first, who had the higher Attack stat went first. There were normal punching/kicking/throwing cards, and then there were Ki cards that can be selected and then a new screen would popup with almost all the Ki attacks your character knows. I say almost because there are certain Ki attacks that can only be used when selecting a certain card. To be more precise, a card with the Martial Artist symbol of your character. Every character had their own Martial Artist symbol, for example Goku and Krillin had Turtle, Tien and Chiaotzu had Crane, Picollo and Gohan had Demon. Every card that you can pick has a Martial Artist symbol, and they (I believe) double your Attack and Defense, but only if they are the Martial Artist symbol of your character. But not every Martial Artist symbol card would trigger your character's special Ki attack, only Ki cards with the right symbol. >
Hot damn. That's exactly the sort of thing my home brew kung fu game needs mechanics-wise. Thank you sirs/madams.
Justin Scott
Super Sayian always turns the eyes green. Did you never notice?
Evan Long
Every Ki attack had a Ki cost, so you could not select a Ki attack if you didn't have enough Ki for it. I believe (not 100% sure), that there was an option to Charge your Ki too.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that Attack and Defend were different commands, so if you wanted your character to JUST Defend you would select Defend while selecting the card, and that would determine the Defense. If you wanted your character to JUST Attack, similarly you would select Attack while selecting the card, and that would determine the Attack.
Here's the part where Battle Power comes into play: I believe Defense and Attack are added directly onto Battle Power. So it is actually your base Battle Power that determines how much damage you will be dealing, or how much damage you will be receiving, depending on the Battle Power difference between you and the enemy. If there is a 50% difference in Battle Power (and you had the higher Battle Power) between you and your enemies, you would deal 50% more damage and receive 50% less while it would be the opposite for your enemies. That is not all however. Not only that but, the Battle power difference would determine if the attack you launched was successful or not and if you are able to dodge an attack or not!! So if there is high Battle Power difference, the one with the higher Battle Power would dodge more and his attacks would hit more successfully.
Because of all of this, the game simulates DBZ incredibly well. If you just go straight to Raditz without training for a bit with Goku and Picollo, they will get thrashed in an instant. If you decide to bring Yamcha and Chiaotzu to the fight with Frieza, good luck.
This game is what convinced me that when in comes to faithfully portraying DBZ, there is no escaping the use of power levels. They simply cannot be ignored. You cannot explain the power difference between Farmer with a shotgun, Raditz, Nappa, Zarbon, Ginyu, Final Form Frieza and Perfect Cell with stats only.
Easton Jenkins
Even a 30% difference in power level is enough for one side to have the upperhand in the fight, and unless you plan to add Tiers for every 10% power level difference, you will not be portraying DBZ faithfully, at all.
Angel Evans
It's about as consistent as Trunk's and Bulma's hair. Sometimes it's green sometimes it's blue sometimes it's a mix of both.
Michael Allen
I've seen both and the PBTA one looks like more fun.
Ethan Green
all sounds good bro
Gabriel Brown
That might make a good single-player PVE video game, but that system would make a TERRIBLE pnp game. >unless you plan to add Tiers for every 10% power level difference, you will not be portraying DBZ faithfully, at all. But he WILL be making a good well balanced game, and while the simulation of the DBZ world may not be as faithful, the spirit of the narrative will be portrayed more faithfully. With something like DBZ, and something like a PNP, you have to chose between simulating the spirit of the source material, and piece-for-piece simulating the expanded universe. It seems like Regalia is more interested in simulating the spirit of the spirit than the expanded universe, and personally I think that's the right call. If you want to play a mathematical simulation of the setting there are already LOADS of muds you can play that do the job in existence; a pnp should do something new.
Nathaniel Parker
The threshold system sounds good, at least better than the bullshit one-hit-KOs we saw in the playlist.
Liam Cooper
There is no system that simulates powerlevels. Simulating powerlevels would be doing something new.
Jonathan Roberts
Can you give me a link to it?
Landon Lopez
You do realize that was literally just describing the codebase for Dragonball Saga. I''m 75% certain ig was meant to be a joke
.Step 1: go to mudconnect Step 2: Search "dragonball" Step 3: Play a dozen systems that simulate powerlevel as the sole mechanic for combat.
As far as muds go, they are actually pretty good, but TTRPG=/=MUD and they should not be built the same way.
Liam Perez
Dude who's making it has been keeping it in a google doc for public viewing, go to tinyurl slash dbparallels
Zachary Butler
...
Xavier Ward
Guys, chill. There are some problems with this system that need some reworking, but the tier system as a broad-strokes representation of powerlevel is not one of them. This was a stroke of briliance. The combat system could use for some more depth and more numerous equally tactically viable options, but if anything the tier system is what saves this game.
Charles Sullivan
Does anybody have good art of OC Namekians or Acrosians? Basically I want it for the purpose of "character art" for NPCs or for players to use if they want. In return, here's some saiyans.
Luke Morales
What makes you think powerlevels automatically exclude RPG narration? You can have both you know
Jackson Morris
...
Carson Jenkins
I don't know if it's considered OC but have a "final" form King Cold
Jordan Gutierrez
And a form 5 King Cold
Robert Lewis
And a form 6 King Cold As I saw it explained on the DBZ Multiverse site the Arcosian forms in the Multiverse fan canon go from small - big and tough - monstrous - and repeat
Samuel Myers
This shit is worse than DB Heroes, good job
Jayden Hall
If you think that's bad have a SS4 Perfect Cell
Samuel Gray
No user that is Badass you don't know shit.
Jeremiah Kelly
Of course it is But it is also dumb as hell Like all of Dragonball
James Foster
Majin Bump
David Robinson
...
Jacob Williams
...
Charles Carter
After the playtest I doubt the game will ever be functional. However, this return makes me want to maybe run a DBZ campaign
Jason Reyes
The main thing that makes power levels hard to use is they cover a much wider range than is used in most games, from the hundreds to the millions. If you wanted to convert DBZ's power levels into something you could use in a game, you'd probably want to make it exponential. So a power level of 10^X is just treated as X by the game rules. Maybe you could see which value is actually higher to break ties, but characters with power levels of 2000 and 3000 would be treated as basically the same unless they were pitted against directly against each other.
This means that power levels could also double as XP. You could give someone a bunch of points to add to their power level and it'll be basically the same until they have to add another digit.
Jacob Ortiz
I never said powerlevels can't coexist in RPG's, I'm saying you can't make powerlevel the be all end all, as many are suggesting is the only way to imitate the source material, cannot coexist with a GOOD game.