Warmasters Triumvirate is an attempt at creation yet another 40k AU. The Primarchs have changed, and instead of appointing a single Warmaster upon returning to Terra, the Emperor leaves the Great Crusade in the care of three of his sons. This eventually culminates in a civil war between Loyalists, Chaos Traitors and Seperatists...
To do list: >Decide upon the exact number of legions we're aiming for >Fill up the three factions as evenly as possible >Continue fluffing out the legions we already have >Decide on who the three Warmasters are >Make sure the Chaos Gods are properly represented
Want to join? Start out with these basic questions: >Name >Primarch >Legion/Primarch Personality >Tactical Specialty >Thematics >Colors
Updated Raj's backstory with part 2. Lemme know what you guys think.
# # # I gotta go now, unfortunately. I'll respond to your changes asap
Aaron Nelson
First for SHAMEFUR DISPRAY
Nicholas Miller
Just to remind any newcomers what we've got set up so far.
>20 Named Legions > Tentative yes to a Separatist Forgeworld >6 Loyalist Legions >5 Traitor Legions >5 Separatist Legions >3 Undecided >And 1 Legion still to be added
Ethan Thomas
>A vet with a dozen other factions in the mag
Brayden Turner
I don't think that's right, you missed something.
Ethan Fisher
Hm? What?
Asher Perez
We really have to figure out the three war masters this thread. Probably the arch traitor and the actual reasons for falling too.
I see the problem! Leviathan Host didn't write if they were Traitor or Separatist. Reading through they appear Traitor so >6 Loyal Legions >6 Traitor Legions >5 Separatist >3 Undecided >1 To be made
Ryder Gray
Maybe? Check if you're in the doc.
I think we also need to figure out which one legion we might scrap in order to allow for a Tzeentch legion, but I'm not sure about that.
Thomas Stewart
Reposting their summary just in case other people haven't read it as well.
OK guys this is my updated document for the Shadow Stalkers. I have changed them a bit to make them seem more likely to fall to chaos, specifically Slaanesh.
I have also written a potential way for Isekho to be corrupted by Slaanesh. Its just a idea, let me know what you think anyway.
Nolan Scott
Working on some Patterns for the SepMech to Produce.
Lincoln Perry
can see him becoming the first to fall to chaos
Easton Flores
Idea for this au nikaea vote. what if the emperor allows psykers which become a cause of some legions to become separatist
Christian Jenkins
Could be an interesting idea
Jace Powell
Sounds interesting, could explain the lack of any particularly psyker-based Separatist Legion.
Sebastian King
nikaea could be the first crack in the imperium which leads to the separatists faction. The primarch could start to resent the emperor and his decisions
Joseph Kelly
That's not a bad idea. Especially since according to the group document, pretty much all of the Primarchs are indicated as "pro-psyker".
Out of 20/21 Legions, only 3 are actually anti-psyker at this time.
Which could be useful, or we could encourage a few more anti-psykers, especially since there's a few new Primarchs coming in. Mold the clay while it's less solid, so to speak.
Jace Jackson
That could then give the Chaos faction the confidence to reveal their true allegiance?
Brandon Campbell
Will do asap. But sleep comes first
Owen Evans
We would also need to very carefully consider the implications regarding the Emperor as well.
If he's making this decision, it means his viewpoint on psykers/the Warp/Chaos is likely to be rather different than in canon.
I can't remember though, did Canon Emps ever tell all the Primarchs "Yes I am a Psyker, this is what that is, this is what that means"? I know he didn't tell them about Chaos, but did he ever explain the Warp-based nature of his power?
Dylan Taylor
would lead to brother resenting brother and give more reasion to rebel and I think we do need some more anti psykers.
could allow the chaos legions to grow in strength in secret for longer if the real problem is seen to be the seps
Matthew Lopez
Description's been added for the Pale Hounds. It's pretty basic at the moment, but more will come
Jason Long
So perhaps the Sepratists in this AU are the ones that form something along the lines of the Grey Knights? A dedicated Anti-Psyker/Chaos Chapter/Taskforce?
Dylan Lopez
Then I imagine they'd be very well equipped by the SepMech? That's a fun abbreviation btw.
Juan Peterson
I see what you do, but this last thing of the Grey Knights...Well, maybe. But...no, I think they have better things to do
Adrian Jackson
agreed dont want grey knights v2 here
Lincoln Gray
>The Orsus-Pattern Lasgun:
Developed during the Great Crusade and only beginning mass production in M32, the Orsus-Pattern Lasgun was designed for the Local Systems to deal with the Ork incursions on their worlds. This Pattern of Lasgun is designed for power over sheer volume, capable of dispatching an ork in a shot or two if the marksman is well trained. The drawback, which was inserted by design by the fabricators is the inability to rapid fire; forcing a guardsman to make each of the 15 shot magazine-count.
Lucas Evans
Ok, I read Ashur's backstory, specifically the part of him getting collared, and I have to say: Good fucking job man! It was like reading a page straight out of one of the (good) Horus Heresy books. Keep it up man! I can only hope to write something like that, be it for Raj or any one piece.
I'm honoured to have my primarch proposed as warmaster although I see a few difficulties, among which him becoming removed from power around the legion turning traitor is the most significant. In a sense, he could be Warmaster of that expeditions tendril that later turns traitor up until they do turn traitor, at which point he is removed from command and the legion shatters. We would need a new warmaster to actually guide the traitor faction after the official betrayal.
Parker Kelly
Your praise humbles me, but also gently rubs my ego.
Wyatt Thompson
How many ships would a Legion have? Ballpark estimate.
Dylan Taylor
Might want to quickly take a peek at the last thread, the first of the SepMech worlds is more or less vassal ally to the Death's Heads
Evan Davis
Probably a couple thousand.
Lincoln Evans
Few hundred battleships, several thousand cruisers, thousands of transports, hundreds of escort and Scout vessels.
Kevin Morgan
No, it's nowhere near that many.
Most Legions have about 100,000 Marines or so.
There are always Imperial Army detatchments that travel with the Marines, but the Marines themselves would have maybe 20 Battleships, 20 Battle Barges, probably 100 Cruisers and maybe 500 Frigates/Destroyers/Scouts under their *direct* control.
Imperial ships are very very big. And most Chapters, as we know, are lucky to have more than one or two Battle Barges for 1000 Marines. Multiply that force level by 100, plus some for being 30k, and even the numbers I just gave might still be too extreme.
Jaxon Williams
>No, it's nowhere near that many. Could be.
Parker Hall
Well the question is are we counting the Legions in addition to their human Auxiliaries or the Explorer Fleets?
Jackson Anderson
Hundreds of fully-equipped battleships (especially crewed/commanded partly by Marines) is enough to knock out half the Galaxy, lol.
There's no way *each* Legion fleet comes close to that amount. Maybe all of them together.
Gavin Thompson
...huh, maybe I'll just have a couple notable named ones then. I figured I could maybe name my battleships, but not any more. Guess I'll give each Chapter a named ship, compromise.
Brody Scott
Well, they did knock out the entire Galaxy.
Andrew Ross
Guys, the Imperium had hundreds of fleets during the Imperium. Just look up the list of Expeditionary Fleets or something.
Sovereign Legion got a link for pre-Heresy information (which I am calling the Secession because that's how they probably view it).
I won't add information about the Legion post-Secession until I know more about what life's like for the Separatists.
Daniel Nelson
All I'm really saying is, watch the Infinity+1 powerlevel-wank of "LOOKIT HOW MANY SHIPS I GOT MOTHERFUCKERS!!!"
Having thousands of battleships or whatever at one's disposal kinda trivializes most opponents during the Heresy-era, until you actually have the Heresy itself.
Andrew Howard
They were split apart into chapters, then companies as well don't forget. And this was during the Imperial Army, there was no fully separate Navy.
Though yes, I'd wager low tens of battleships, not hundreds. The Emperor probably a ton of ships under his direct command at any rate.
Caleb Barnes
>Having thousands of battleships or whatever at one's disposal kinda trivializes most opponents during the Heresy-era They were pretty trivial though.
Connor Garcia
Okay, so let's look at it like this.
There were 4000 expedition fleets. We don't know the exact size, but we do know the 8th expedition fleet had 29000 Iron Warriors at least. Let's round this up to 30000.
Assuming similar ratios as modern chapters for simplicity's sake, so 2 battle barges a chapter, this fleet would have 60 battle barges. If we were to assume one battle barge per 300 space Marines because this is Heresy era, there would be 100.
This is presumably the high end.
Thomas Carter
>If we were to assume one battle barge per 300 space Marines Assuming that fluff is accurate with its 300-marine capacity listed, which I doubt it is. A 5 mile ship can easily hold twice that number even accounting for Armament.
Grayson Green
>twice Or thrice. Or five times.
Blake Hall
I think given the greater level of 30k technology, comfortably supporting 500 Marines + their stuff is reasonable per Battle Barge/Battleship equivalent.
So, a 100,000 Marine "averageish" Legion might expect to have 200 large capital ships all told. Given that few naval fleets are composed exclusively of massive vessels, I would further posit that each Strike Cruiser hold half that many (250 Marines + gear), and each Frigate/Marine equivalent would hold 100 soldiers.
If we then estimate 50 capital ships (10,000 Marines), 150 Strike Cruisers (37,500 Marines), and roughly 525 smaller escort vessels (52,500 Marines), you get an average Marine expeditionary force of perhaps 1 Capital Ship (500), 3 Cruiser-equivalents (750), and 10 Frigate-equivalents (1000), carrying a total of 2,250 Marines in 13 ships.
There's also 25 smaller escorts left over to be flexible reserves as needed.
I think 2250 Marines and 13 Imperial ships sounds pretty good for an average Imperial conquest force in this era. They can be combined as needed, and if not, an average Legion can be assaulting up to 50 different worlds more or less simultaneously without feeling unduly stretched thin.
This also lets us avoid assuming that implausible numbers of gigantic ships magically spring out of nowhere, in an era where Imperial shipyards are fewer and farther between, not having been built yet while the Imperium is still expanding. Lesser vessels are much easier to lay down keels for and supply.
Thoughts, everyone?
Justin Sanchez
>I think given the greater level of 30k technology, comfortably supporting 500 Marines + their stuff is reasonable per Battle Barge/Battleship equivalent. Technology has nothing to do with it. A 5 mile ship should hold thousands of soldiers.
Liam Thompson
Other than that, sounds good. This is not including IA vessels however, which would double the number.
Jayden Roberts
Well yeah, of course you could physically stuff them in there.
But you also have to take into account the food, the ammo, the replacement parts, all the supply chain stuff, the bulkier Land Raiders/Attack Bikes/Thunderhawks/Land Speeders/Dreadnoughts/etc...
There's a whole bunch of things that go along with even a few hundred Marines, and that's all competing for limited space with the actual crew of the battleship itself and all the things that keep them and the ship afloat and fighting.
Presumably in the Heresy Era, doing all that is more efficient than it is with the damaged goods of 40k.
Cameron Ross
Without much else to go on, I gave the Pillars 10 battleships, 96 cruisers and 650 destroyer/frigates. Those sounds like rookie numbers now.
But 50/150/500 sounds like a reasonable spread of battleship/cruiser/escort to me.
Ethan Nelson
Even with all that in account, a battle barge should still be able to carry an entire chapter. A wasp-class Amphibious Assault Ship carries 1800 soldiers; a ship over twenty times longer can undoubtedly carry as many and then some.
Ryan Nguyen
Nothing wrong with having a skew towards the small end, of course. Battleships are good because it's hard to kill them dead, they can often be repaired. They also get all the cool toys. In bulk.
But small ships are also quite nice because they're individually less of a weakness, should they be knocked out. Easier to build in small shipyards, easier to get parts for. Much quicker to build, all that jazz. They're not as flashy, but they are efficient. Much faster moving as well, should flanking and envelopment strategies be to your liking in space.
I worked a fair bit on CoH backstory, but have left everything from the Edict of Nikeea and onwards blank as I might change how they fall depending on what we decide. I have added a bit about Linares too Silverish guy if you want me to add anything?
Andrew Evans
If we do decide to go with the anti-psyker Nikea being the Separatists then the Pillars would be Loyalist, we've got too many eggs in the psyker basket.
I've already got them down as being heavy into void combat, so while I think I'll have above average escort craft I won't want one fifth of the battleships. Might go 40/140/650 to reflect our character.
Henry Cox
What Primarchs do we currently have at or respresented at the Council of Nikea? Also what would have brought it about in our universe, seeing as (at least to me) there aren't any Legions totally involved in the use of psykers like the KSons were
Colton Torres
The Disciples are also supposedly psyker-heavy, though I'm not sure how active their creator is.
I'm having the Pillars be pretty involved in their psyker usage too. But admittedly, explosives are available to people without magic brain powers so we use those even more. Gotta love grenades. Can't think of any reason we'd not be present at Nikea either.
Matthew Nelson
Well, the Steel Souls will certainly be represented, and it's entirely possible their Primarch will personally attend. Psykers are an integral part of that Legion from top to bottom.
Nolan Morris
>tfw looking back over my Hektor Heresy shit and I find Anorexia and Septicus Good God, I should write more for Nurgle.
Jeremiah Bell
Side note for anyone who knows the answers to this question:
What happened to psychically gifted recruits or Marines whose powers awakened after becoming Marines during the Crusade, *before* their Primarch was found?
If they did (and weren't somehow removed from service for whatever reason), who would have taught them to control their abilities? The Emperor? Malcador? Someone else entirely?
Jack Morgan
CoH also. Lambach actively looks for anf recruits psykers. Which I haven't gotten to adding to the document yet. But squad leaders and many of his Dreadnaughts are librarians.
Luis Wilson
Also, I'd really like to get Emil's time of rediscovery nailed down, so I can keep writing fluff for the Legion before his arrival.
It's hard to do that properly without knowing if they waited 1, 5, 50 or 500 years for their Primarch to show up, you know?
Jose Hill
I think Einchurt would likely have been there, or at least represented. He doesn't actively hate psykers like Mortarion, but sees them more of simply as unreliable, not worth the effort to "unlock" their powers. VI Legion Astartes that manifest psychic gifts are usually just used as suicide weapons, burning themselves out while causing maximum destruction.
Bentley Gutierrez
So as it turns out you can't put two hyperlinks in a single google sheets cell. Kind of annoying since I've separated my Primarch and Legion into two separate docs. Awkwardly linked the two together via hyperlinks in the docs themselves until I think of something better.
Also captcha is taking the piss.
Ryan Sullivan
So who's going to pull the Sanguinius-martyr short straw?