Faction Focus: Dark Eldar

You should've joined the Ynnari for the hips!

But user...

Well you see Ynnari get both Dark and Craftworld Eldar best of both worlds!

>I literally don't know what a bustle is
>MAN THOSE VICTORIAN LADIES MUST HAVE HAD HUGE ASSES

So dumb
Why live

Don't fall in love, man. She's only going to tear your heart out literally.

DE will always be a joke probably. Squishy unless you roll good! (But only in certain phases!)
Gonna go back to my kroot-heavy T'au™

...

The model actually has a pretty big ass without the bustle.

Remember that flamers have AP0 which allows them to take their 6+ save. It's not much but it's better then before.

Raiders and venoms being able to protect your units and not having to worry about flamers killing your guys inside seems like a huge improvement to me.

It's another buff to shooting units in the edition where melee is supposed to be king.

>melee is supposed to be king
But that was never the idea, just that it's viable. Nothing is supposed to be king.

I think a big factor is gonna be how cover ends up working. Say you can get a +2 to your armor save from hard cover. Position your wyches in that before you charge and you've got a 4+ save against the flamers or any other small arms.

In general, I think hit modifiers and cover save bonuses could potentially make things a lot more durable against shooting. Combine that with the fact that it's also a lot harder to wound on a 2+, and shooting might just not be as viable as wiping squads of the table.

In addition, WS being a set value to roll means Wyches getting the charge will be landing more hits, and then with some actual AP can kill things more effectively than guns trying to plink at them in cover.

>no info on power from the pain
one job

Melee combat is supposed to be viable, not dominant. It should be a tool, not the end all answer to everything.

From the rules released so far, I'd say the biggest advantage of melee over ranged is the fact that cover now is a +1 sv. Unless you are planning to bring anti tank to deal with units hiding in cover, most units that hug cover should be pretty hard to remove with small arms since even wyches get 5+ sv in cover and space marines get 2+. Against enemies in cover, a melee unit is effectively an additional AP-1 over their weapon stats since it is unlikely that enemies can claim cover saves in melee combat.

Maybe this is just me being optimistic, but I think melee will have its place in 8th.

I think the fact that assaulting from deep strike is possible will help. On top of that, it feels like options to boost BS during Over watch aren't going to be a thing, or at least won't be as widespread.

Tau especially lose a lot of their anti-assault ability when they're only hitting on 6s. Goes from cases where a Riptide with a few Marker drones behind it is wiping out entire squads during Overwatch to actually needing a full gun line with a lot of shots to actually deal damage.

Christ was Frankie talking up that No Escape rule, acting like it would always go off when in fact it's only happening 50% of the time. I was looking at it thinking "Seriously, is that it?"

I am pretty excited for Raiders in 8th ed. Especially if splinter racks are still a thing.

10 kabalite warriors firing twin linked splinter rifles at half range would be 40 shots of whatever profile splinter rifles get. Pretty good for a troop unit hiding in a transport.

>Drukhari

Fuck you Geedubs, It's Dark Eldar.

50% chance to impeding an opponent's retreat is better than having 0% chance of impeding their retreat. Not to mention that a single unit of wyches could possibly tie up mutiple units and apply this rule to all enemy units in combat with the wyches.

But user, how can they be dark if they are paler then craftworld eldar?

This has been the least discussed faction focus so far
>I am sad.
>Fuck space marines

Articles by Frankie always get less discussion because he just hypes everything but gives little to nothing to back it up. He was masturbating until he bled over Wytches being awesome but the rules he revealed for them were seriously lackluster.

And a 50% chance is worse than a 100% chance. Wyches were nerfed there. High WS meant most units had trouble hitting them, but static hit rolls means wyches get hit even more. That's a nerf for wyches. S/T3 means they still fail to wound most of the game 2/3rds of the time and get wounded back at least 2/3rds of the time.

Wyches still suck ass.

>Articles by Frankie always get less discussion

That's objectively wrong. The Tau article was also by Frankie and that was followed by 365 posts in the main thread and many doomsaying subthreads.

The reason this article has little discussion is because it's about dark eldar which was a middle of the pack army during 7th. As with all dark eldar threads, all anyone ever wants to talk about is wyches and ignore all the other units in the codex.

Like he said. Not much was revealed. Raiders and venom are still going to be fast and hopefully with new profiles they wont be destroyed by a single mean stare. I personally cant wait to go around drive bying with kabalites.
If what he wrote about wyches is true (promises of buffing and all that hype), than awesome i like the idea of using them again. The problem is that those buffs wont mean jack shit if they cant get to assault witch is still pretty possible.
Incubi are pretty much the same or did i miss something? Still love those guys.
Not a word said obout pfp.
Tbh im optimistic about 8th edition, raiders/venoms are going to be better, and there is a chance that we might be able to assault again. Who knows maybe ill start fielding hellions again?

My bad, m8

daerki aeldaries

U sir deserve to become a finest of harlequins

>Drukhari

Urgh.

>wyches hit a little harder, but are still impossible to get into melee

For fucks' sake GW. Give them an immunity to Overwatch or something you stupid motherfuckers.

>I'm going to pass sweeping judgment in absence of any faction rules or other unit rules because I'm a fag
>t. Faggot

I do recall him mentioning that Raiders also had an Invuln like venoms now. I'd imagine that makes them much more viable in comparison.

I'm really surprised they didn't extend their 4+ Invuln to Over watch at least. I saw that suggestion so often and it fits with little change.

Personally, I almost would have rather they gave enemies a -2 to hit them while they were within pistol range. Marines hitting you on 5s as you close in, and only hitting on 5s as you dance around them in melee. That wouldn't really help against Overwatch, but it would mean that they'd be safe from a lot of infantry guns that like to get close for rapid fire

Wyches had WS4. They've always fought marines on a 4+. Now it's just on 3+s.

While they have S3/T3, they now have a rule that provides them with utillity. This makes them more useful when paired up with other assault units in the codex, consider stuff like the talos for this purpose. A talos can eat the overwatch and provide damage and the wyches can provide 50% chance of keeping units in combat. I would think that using wyches in this way would be the best way to use them.

Seems like, to me, that in order to keep to the aesthetic of 'super quick raid army' they just want me to buy more transports.

It's another episode of faction players pissing and moaning that their units aren't broken and being improved is simply not good enough

>Drawing conclusions based on collective released so far is sweeping judgement
What the fuck else is going to change about them? Do you really think they won't be S/T3? Literally nothing changed about them except now they can't definitely lock things in combat, which means they're even worse than before, especially with the changes buffing overwatch.

Because wyches are what everyone wants to see get good. Kabalites have always been playable and now they're even more playable. Wyches are even worse than before in the edition supposedly buffing melee.

>hopefully with new profiles they wont be destroyed by a single mean stare
He said they'll be much more durable, kabalites can still shoot out, and they don't take penalties for the mounted guns. This is great for gun boats.

>wych buffs
They were nerfed and they don't even realize it. There's a very real possibility that I less the whole unit for some miracle sweeping change that they'll be the worst unit in 8th edition. Mark my words. Overwatch still kills them because they only get 4++ in the fight phase, not the charge.

>Incubi are pretty much the same or did i miss something?
He tried to make them look special, but literally nothing new that we didn't already guess based on how AP changed.
>Not a word said obout pfp.
It very likely gone if they didn't mention it, considering all the army quirks downturn other armies, like Battle Focus getting a mention. If anything, it'll be a Covens thing now.

>Tbh im optimistic about 8th edition,
Recent info has curbed in my ecstatic glee for 8th, but no matter what it'll be better than 7th.

>Who knows maybe ill start fielding hellions again?
At this rate, I'm betting they'll be shockingly mediocre. Fast movement, T3 and 6+ save, mediocre damage. 18" guns means they're one movement phase away from getting rapid fired to death.

Don't forget, rather than having AP 5 on their special weapons, they got bumped up to AP -1. That's affecting a hell of a lot more units than just guardsmen now.

>Now it's just on 3+s.
And likewise they get hit on 3s. That's significantly worse.

>While they have S3/T3, they now have a rule that provides them with utillity.
You mean a 50% chance to somewhat they already did and when they lose the toll they die? Wowee!

They still need a 5+ to wound, so it's actually worse.

Like I wrote here , I believe wyches have been given a more utility based role for the assault. Rather then trying to be more killy, wyches are now more supportive of your other killier stuff.

>More likely to hit
>Same chance to wound
>Anyone better than geq gets less armor

So yeah, they're better against everything except guard, who now get a 6+ armor save. Somehow I don't think they were having problems with killing guard in melee though.

Currently
>4+ to hit MEQ, 5+ to wound, 3+ save to deal with

Now
>3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 4+ save to deal with thanks to AP -1

How is that worse again?

I'll be honest, you seem to be pretty unhappy that you need to adapt to how melee will be used in 8th ed.

They're also more likely to receive hits, which means a lot more to a T3 unit.

They're not universally AP-1, just wych weapons, and you're forgetting that Hydra Gauntlets had shred, which is mathematically better than AP-1 as S3.

I honestly don't see how melee is good at all in 8th. Literally everything in the game makes shooting better.

Moon over Commoragh, bring fresh souls to me tonight

i hope they make footdeldar viable instead of everything having to be in transports 100% of the time and to make DEldar not one-trick-pony army

i've wanted to do DEldar force for long time but having to buy transports for pretty much everything just drives the price too high for me.

Well, odds are good that their infantry will be pretty fast, though unless they have some really nice ways of getting cover I'm not sure it'll work out as well.

Here's the problem: footdar may be better, but Gunboats are simply better. They have better movement, better guns without a move penalty, AND they have dudes inside like footdar. Normal eldar can probably do footdar very well because they can't shoot out of their transports like we can. There's no point for us not to use raiders/venoms.

Well hopefully the haemonculus junk will be a lot beefier, then it will be easier to have meaty shields to cover your wyches and kabalites as they advance, softening them up with shooting and then getting close enough to get a solid charge off the wyches then tarpit them to death.

Unit-specific movement speeds. Both flavours of eldar are going to RUN FAST.

Give this guy some Dark Eldar slaves.

Hell, give 'im ALL the Dark Eldar slaves!

>Literally everything in the game makes shooting better.

Not the changes to cover saves. A +1 or even +2 to a unit's sv matters quite a lot.

That mainly benefits stuff like marines though. For lightly armored units, a 3/4+ cover save was already what they were dealing with.

One upside might be though that there will be less weapons to ignore cover, since now any heavy weapon can do so.

>soft cover effectively lowers your ballistic skill
>hard cover adds to armor
>ap2 isn't a thing anymore
>you are simultaneously dealing with lower chances to hit as well as lower chances of hurting an armored target if if they design their army to assault if that wasn't clear
>units can charge out of deep strike
>even though it's a further than average charge they can use command points to reroll if it fails

If you want to be a bitch and only acknowledge things that fit your point then sure. But other people try to actually pay attention to what's going on.

ELADRITH
YNNEATH

THAT'S HOW THEY CALL THEMSELVES

strawpoll.me/12988146

So when are Dark Eldar getting half their named charcters back, no Vect is inexcusable

Also Mandrake buff when thier models are too cool for shit rules

Especially since flamers no longer ignore cover, eliminating infantry in cover is now harder then before.

Doubly so for an army like Dark Eldar which has weapons that generally fall into 2 catagories, high rate of fire AP0 guns or low rate of fire AP-3/-4 guns.

Have we discussed that if you can assault after DS, you can almost certainly assault after a full speed transport move? Because that's a HUGE buff for assaulting armies.

Literally this is the only thing DE players want - they want their opponent to be afraid of them in some way. But I don't think that's what we're going to get. Instead, we're just going to get a slightly squishier Eldar without the insane damage output. Fuck that.

That may require a product line update from GW since they don't seem to sell those named HQs on their store. They do sell dark eldar slaves though. Slave datasheet when?

Yeah, I feel like that may be the route they want. Shooting is gonna be easier now thanks to split fire and the heavy weapon changes, but generally will end up weaker thanks to less ignoring cover, rerolls, and general Bullshit.

Melee is then the go-to answer for flushing enemies out of cover, since even if they fall back they'll be exposed

My only qualm is keeping Overwatch in such a system, since that just encourages cover-camping with guns.

That said, it feels like 40k will almost end up like trench warfare. Lots of bullets flying, but you're generally safe in the cover of a trench. You want to do anything though, and you gotta pile into a durable tank and get in nice and close.

They also don't sell Rough Riders but that's not stopping them

Vect is getting squatted after being BTFO by the Ynnari. Cap this.

Where was it ever stated or implied that their intention in 8th was to "make melee king" you tremendous faggot?

There are no to-hit modifiers that we know of, but it's already been confirmed that cover just stacks with armor saves.

So if your wyches are in 4+cover they'll have a 4+ armor save.

Reaver jetbikes with caltropes are pretty scary, if that's the way you want to go.

Speaking of fear inducing, Dark Eldar had a bunch of equipment that used ld tests to deal damage. With leadership reduced slightly across the board, does anyone else think Dark Eldar are going to get more leadership gimmick weapons?

Leadership gimmicks could well be what sets DE apart in 8th. Battleshock tests will be no joke.

Didn't the books start setting up to to have Lady Malys lead a coup?

>No to hit modifiers we know of

You mean besides moving with Heavy Weapons, Smoke Launchers, and the Stealth field on Sniper Drones?

yeah, but apparently Kheradruakh and Vect are the ones who are taking advantage of the situation right now. Vect sent all his rivals to get killed by demons, and Kheradruakh is expanding Aelindrach throughout all the fucked-up districts.

And with the mentioned smoke shields and stealth fields, you don't think a lot of assaulty armies are going to have stealthy infiltrators like they already do?

It also had Kheradruakh become the de-facto ruler of a lot of Commorragh but when was the last time anyone heard that name

Fuck you, I miss him

Ah, only heard bits and pieces from a bunch of conversations. If we don't get Vect back then I'd totally go for Malys. Hell, both. With the introduction of subfactions for things other than space marines we might be seeing kabal rules. Full pirate, sneaky elf keikaku bullshit with lots of infiltration and specialists, haemonculi focused armies. I can get behind that. I really want to see what they're doing with the haemonculi covens since they weren't mentioned in the teaser. Really hoping they don't try to make it an extra army.

Judging by the order of operations when charging (i.e. select target -> overwatch -> roll charge distance), you could attempt a 9" charge and the target with flamers (8" range) would not be able to overwatch. But that's pretty risky.

I think they mentioned in one of the articles that things like popping smoke gives a -1 to hit. Can't remember which article it was though.

>>soft cover effectively lowers your ballistic skill
[Citation needed]
>>hard cover adds to armor
Benefits shooters
>>ap2 isn't a thing anymore
You're right, AP values effectively ignore cover instead
>>you are simultaneously dealing with lower chances to hit as well as lower chances of hurting an armored target if if they design their army to assault if that wasn't clear
What? Things are generally easier to hit and wound in this edition, and it still only takes S6 to 2+ our shit

>>units can charge out of deep strike
With a roll of 9+

>>even though it's a further than average charge they can use command points to reroll if it fails
On one unit and it still needs a 9+

This edition still favors shooting to melee

>Stealthy infiltrators

What does that even mean within the context of 8th?

tantric deathcult oni eldar are bestdar

I want Kheradruakh to have three eyes, a long tongue and a huge garland of skulls around his neck

>hard cover adds to armor
>Benefits shooters

How? You only benifit from cover against shooting.

Wyches have a 6+ save, so if they're in cover, they're at a 5+ armor save.

I assumed 5+ would give +1 to saves while 4+ would give +2.

Maybe that distinction no longer exists though.

That'd be nice. If I can run some DE and Killer Klowns from Outer Space and just make all other models collectively shit their pants, I'd be a pretty happy camper.

It doesn't.

Nah senpai, make him to the iconic Shiva pose on top of a giant mountain of skulls

Also I'm legit suprosed I can still spell Kheradruakh considering how shit his rules were I never used him

He needs both the pose, the pile of skulls and everything I mentioned desu
youtube.com/watch?v=sJ8izgG1eLw

Not too risky. Since you have the extra inch reach you only need 8 inches if you're 8.5 away. Easily doable

Nope. Honestly Drukhari is a much better name anyway with the connection to Druchii. Not to mention shorter.

I don't like how Italian it sounds

I know it's supposed to sound like "duergar" but it just sounds like the name of some shitty pasta restaurant

You have to be MORE THAN 9" away when you Deepstrike, which means that if you move 8" + the 1" melee distance YOU ARE NOT IN RANGE. Unless you can roll an 8.5 on 2d6, you need roll a 9+ to reach melee.

We're talking about avoiding 8" flamer overwatch though.

And here I specifically said 8.5 to make it clear that I wasn't talking about deep strikes.

Ah ok, sorry. Getting threads confused.