Roleplaying games are not roleplaying games because there's no drama between the PCs

>Roleplaying games are not roleplaying games because there's no drama between the PCs
What did he mean by this?

youtube.com/watch?v=wES5ufXETdE

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youtube.com/watch?v=NTcMikVXCFk
lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
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Ignore. This is the one time I must admit, he sounds fucking autistic.

ah, another lindythread. this ought to be good.

He's a pretentious twit suffering from the typical British autism about dumbest of things. God, I hate limeys who are sperging out about shit like that ,the whole island is filled with people like him, except the rest complains about life in general in such manner.

at this point I'm convinced it's lindy's mom who keeps making these threads. It's the only way I can mentally justify how they keep cropping up despite the fact that /tg has come to the agreement he's full of shit. Maybe she's doing it as a passive aggressive attempt to make him stop posting youtube videos.

What he said, or at least what I took from the video, was that many PC parties are just an assembled team of unrelated individuals, each made solely by their own player in a bit of a vacuum, with no real established history with other characters. The PCs do things together, and maybe drama unfolds due to circumstances, or superficial tension (my character dislikes dwarves, and one of the other PCs is a dwarf), but roleplaying is likely not the actual focal point of the game, or the system. The Hillfolk system is about roleplaying, and it proposes that you collaborate with your group to establish meaningful interpersonal connections, as well as tensions that will make things move along in a dramatic way. I wouldn't use the system, myself, but the basic idea seems like a good one if you want deeper interactions between PCs.

Clearly he hasn't played Paranoia.

...

Interpersonal drama in RPGs are often ignored and can be very entertaining, but then he goes full tilt on storygame bullshittery.
No Lloyd, the best thing about this video was your recommendation of the original Hitchhiker's Guide.

Honestly, this video sounds to me like Lindy just discovered that you can do other things with TTRPGs aside from straight up dungeon crawling.

reminder that Lindybeige claims:

>no one used swords, axes
>no one used horses
>no one used throwing knives
>no one used double strap arm shields
>no one used scythes
>no one used mail coifs
>no one used torches
>Pikemen didn't fight each other
>no one spoke French during the French revolution
>no one spoke Latin during the Roman Republic
>battle of Zama didn't happen
>Romans carried one pilum
>Vikings weren't real
>berserkers weren't real
>climate change isn't real
>stagnant social mobility isn't real
>castles were defended by three soldiers
>butted mail is better than riveted mail
>operation market garden was a success
>Napoleon was literally Hitler
>The Churchill was the best tank in WWII
>The English won the Hundreds Years' War
>british naval guns on Malta could lanuch projectiles into space

The last thread on this video wasn't so bad and it ended peacefully.

Why did you have to dredge it up for a second go?

...

The 7th Sea game I was in was like 90% character drama, we barely paid attention to the actual plot

I'm not gonna watch the video cause any Lindy is enough for a lifetime, but surely interparty drama is an admirable goal of an RPG? Most works that could provide inspiration for a campaign/adventure tend to include dramatic tension between the main characters.
The big hurdle is of course avoid it escalating straight to murderfucking each other, which I guess is in the nature of players

The main problem with this video is that Lindy acts like this is some sort of revelation and how it's so amazing that there are TTRPGs that do other things than dungeon crawling.

I mean, I generally enjoy his ramblings but this video is kinda bad even by his standards.

That's a sad picture.

I love that article so fucking much.

wut?

Link?

>What did he mean by this?
Nothing. lindybeige is notorious for making clickbait videos with little factual content.

>What did he mean by this?
That saging, hiding, and reporting shit content is important.

Please put Lindyshit in the title next time so our filters catch it.

I kinda agree to be honest. I mean he's wrong, yeah. But I actually have found that a lack of interparty drama is just... boring. I mean, it's fun to play a normal D&D campaign. You can have the epic quests, the memorable stories. But my favorite campaigns were when the PCs were at each others' throats almost as much as their enemies', and for good reason, because they actually disagreed on how to do shit. I used to watch the Walking Dead and it reminded me best of this, members of the group actually killed each other but they were still trying to survive together. I'm sure there are other examples but that one is most prominent cause I've been bingewatching it on Normieflix. It's true of pretty much any drama show, though. And that is a good 50% of what makes those shows entertaining. I really like when PCs have interparty drama, it adds something interesting to the game. That idea of interpersonal drama (between party and NPCs even) being a large part of the game as opposed to straight up opposed goals (i.e. party versus BBEG) is a huge part of why I like Apocalypse World even though that idea is far from unique to the game.

kek, his videos definitely have a buzzkill vibe about them, almost everything sounds impractical after a Lloyd rant.

But he is one of the comfiest channels on youtube so ill still watch from time to time.

I can tell this post is bullshit because while I'm not a lindy expert, I know he didn't say a few of those things.

>mail coifs

He didn't say nobody uses mail coifs. He said coifs aren't used like they are commonly depicted in media, you can't just wear a coif on your head because it's just metal against your skin, anything hitting it is going to push the metal into your head and fuck you up. So his idea was that based on some depictions of coifs, more than likely people put material under the coif and it was arranged in different way. In the depictions he showed people wearing coifs look like they have balloon heads.

"Some people have mistaken what I am saying in this video. I'll try to clarify.

I started by saying that I had bought DragonStrike(TM). It wasn't cheap, by the way. Nostalgia costs. I spent money on it because I wanted it, and I wanted it because I can enjoy that sort of game. At no point in this video do I say that traditional RPGs games are rubbish or to be scorned. By telling you up-front that I have just bought DragonStrike(TM) I thought (wrongly, it seems) that I was making this very clear.

Nor do I say that DramaSystem is the only way for RPGs to get more dramatic in terms of character relations. I just thought that people who are already into RPGs might find the system involving a web of relationships between the characters before the game starts interesting. Yes, plenty of other RPG rulebooks have pages of suggestions for how to encourage good role-playing in what might otherwise become a mission-focussed game. The suggestions in 4th Ed. D&D were particularly good, but unfortunately, they appeared alongside a rule system that made good role-playing very difficult. Not impossible, of course, just very difficult."

Cont 1/2

I wouldn't call that System though. It's something that belongs into the GM guidelines chapter. Also, he seems to be unable to grasp that bad acting is still acting. And bad movies are still movies. And, yes, role-playing without interpersonal drama is still role-playing.

But what really pisses me off is his paid shilling for audible mid-stream. They know my ad blocker can't filter that out. I have the option of not watching his vids anymore though. And certainly NOT buying anything from audible.

"At no point do I say that the players of other RPGs are bad role-players. I do not talk about the quality of players at all. It is so obvious that the quality of role-playing in a game can never be better than the quality of the players, that I thought it unnecessary to mention. Any game, even chess, can have role-playing added to it, but some games like chess do not encourage, reward, or facilitate it, while others, like DramaSystem, make it the core activity of the game. Some days, you feel like playing chess.

Also, at no point do I say that the settings of DramaSystem are all realistic, nor that unrealistic settings are bad in RPGs. Instead, I tell you about settings in DramaSystem where the PCs are time-travellers, rabbits, in a space-ship guided by dreams, orcs, and sentient robots. I don't see how anyone who has seen this whole video could have possibly made that mistake.

I would like to apologise to the three editing errors (a flash frame, a caption in the wrong place, and a missing fade-out) that I have spotted today in this video. The longer the video, the harder it is to spot all these things.

On the topic of the Judge Dredd movies, I see no one in the comments rushing to the defence of the Stallone effort, but a fair few have said that they liked the Karl Urban one. It was a lot better, but it wasn't based closely enough on the comic; was gratuitously violent; The Raid told the same story better; it had a storyline that didn't really tell the viewer much about Megacity One or the way it is run; and it didn't do much with the character of Dredd and what he stands for - he was just a tough guy with a gun. It lost 462 points from me when Dredd passed Anderson at the end, when the true Dredd would certainly have failed her."

>the best thing was the advertisement
How can anyone be that gullible? At least post a link where you can get the pirated version, if you like it so much.

add to that
>RPGs aren't RPGs

>But I actually have found that a lack of interparty drama is just... boring.
I tried to facilitate it in a Deathwatch game, where it is absolutely crucial to get any interesting role-playing going. Nothing. My players absolutely refused to any conflict between chapters (even DA and SW player) and instead played as a team of killers. Like any other game they play. Bored me to death.

>it had a storyline that didn't really tell the viewer much about Megacity One or the way it is run;
That is the best part about it, faglord. I swear to God, if I ever see a comic book adaptation with origin story or extended background exposition, I'll go crack a skull, I swear it.

> and it didn't do much with the character of Dredd and what he stands for - he was just a tough guy with a gun.
And that's fine for the purpose of that particular film due to its narrow scope.

>It lost 462 points from me when Dredd passed Anderson at the end, when the true Dredd would certainly have failed her."
That I can accept.

But many of those are true to some degree. Scythes and throwing knives are shit for actually fighting people if you have other options, torches were a sub-optimal lightsource, swords and axes WERE backup weapons for when you lost your spear, and Greek WAS the conversational language of Rome.

He's not wrong.

Obviously there exist plenty of TTRPGs that set roleplaying between PCs as a central focus. Hillfolk happens to be the one that he has played and had the most positive experience with, and there are far less obscure systems out there.

And yet would it be incorrect to say that the very most popular TTRPGs don't actually focus on character roleplay? If most people are playing dungeon crawlers, if that is the most common experience associated with TTRPGs, then many people may not be so aware of roleplaying-centric systems. Something Veeky Forums naturally takes for granted, because this is a community for enthusiasts who are well aware of these systems already.

>33 minutes
FUCK THAT, I'm not going to watch him pretend to know shit about shit for that long.

>He's a pretentious twit suffering from the typical British autism about dumbest of things.
He actually had an entire article on his blog whining about the Système International and how it's too French and how Imperial is better in every single way. At some points he uses two arguments that are so ironic, I wonder if he reads what he writes. Those arguments are:
>Imperial is easier for conversion
>If Imperial didn't work, we'd have replaced it with something better

You're welcome folks. I posted this thread. Direct all blame on me, Wayne. The Scapegoat of Veeky Forums, and the man responsible for everything wrong with the board.

Fuck you, Wayne.

If you enjoy his videos, why begrudge him making a bit of sponsorship money? It's not as if it's ever a surprise, since he always says at the beginning if a video is sponsored, and who by, and I'd rather listen to Lloyd talking about Audible or Great Courses Plus for a minute or two than to be suddenly shunted out of a video mid-chat for a shitty generic ad

on his facebook he stated that the company behind Hillfolk got in contact with him after the video, and they said there was a big rise in sales after the video.

It´s new to a whole lot of people.

But the Imperial system is better. And his article was written in a tongue-in-cheek manner, it's his problem you're a sperg (or French).

Fucking Wayne. I might have known.

I am not a Dredd expert, but from a narrative standpoint it was really the most satisfying ending. Besides, hasn´t he got some pet the dog moments during his career?

I mean, if a recruit passes through shit like that in its examination day and doesn´t go full bonkers, it must have some judicial talent inside.

In some aspects, I agree with him. In a pre-scourge Earthdawn game, character motivations were not discussed before the game, only the political setting for a town.

- One character was set out to steal the magic-stone (he didn't know what it was at the beginning, just that it was a single item) that was supposed to be the engine for the kaer's barrier

- One character was to find out more about how the kaer's defenses were set up, so that he can sabotage it for political reasons

- One was to negotiate migration to the kaer from a nearby town by rich families looking to survive, their own defenses having been vandalized (it was a lie, they were set up to assassinate their way to political power once established in the kaer)

- One was an 'ambassador' type, sent by allies of the town to warn against sabotage they found out via their own spy network (completely unrelated to all other characters, he just came up with this idea). GM just rolled with it and set up the game accordingly.

It was good times. Took some time with single sessions to pull the players together, but it was worth it. Shame Earthdawn doesn't get much love on Veeky Forums

>>castles were defended by three soldiers
This entire video was about a single castle which was defended by a compliment of less than ten soldiers *and the entire staff.*

And the account is accurate as well. I don't know why this one is part of the pasta. Like a third of the points he makes about these aren't even incorrect, you've just completely changed his statements.

...

Another clickbait video? How surprising... saged

I love the aftermath of it more. Unfortunately, that also means his only source of income ever since is making an ass of himself in front of camera.

>Unfortunately, that also means his only source of income ever since is making an ass of himself in front of camera.
Losing an unpaid volunteer position at a University forced him to get into youtube?

He also claims sunglasses magically block the ability to learn from new experiences

youtube.com/watch?v=NTcMikVXCFk

Yes, since it killed his prospects of turning unpaid volunteer position into a paid part-time job, aka the very reason he was doing it in the first place. Since he's his age, with no real job skills and shunned by academic circles for what he originally intended as "harmless joke", his only perspective is either to find some menial job or keep making those videos. That or working as a dance teacher.
Now three guesses what pays most at least effort from those options.

...

Holy fuck people still listen to this braindead mongoloid?

funny. All that which you mentioned is the focus of all of our groups. My group holds the opionion that simple dungeon crawling can be done in video-games.

I refuse to listen to anything this historically inaccurate Fr*nchman has to say.

>And his article was written in a tongue-in-cheek manner
You never know with that guy. This is the guy who actually believes England won the Hundred Years War, remember? In some other article about vegetarians or something he also whined about French Golden Delicious being tasteless... despite Golden Delicious apples being American.
lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
I believe he's just THAT autistic. The fact that you think it's tongue-in-cheek might be Poe's law in action.

>This is the guy who actually believes England won the Hundred Years War
Where did he say that?
A lot of what he says about the French is just banter not meant to taken seriously.
The essay about vegetarians is again very tongue-in-cheek. And don't tell me that you're going to defend vegetarians now.

>Where did he say that?
I'm not on my home computer, but I have a screencap (maybe someone else can post it? I've seen it here multiple times) where someone replies on his videos with something among the lines of "yeah, but remember that the French won the HYW", to which he replied with something like "we got rid of the worst scum in our shires, sent them on a tour to the French countryside and killed a lot of Frenchmen. How's that a loss?".

>A lot of what he says about the French is just banter not meant to taken seriously.
A lot of what he says period is not to be taken seriously, but at this point the line between banter and grudge becomes incredibly thin. Or is this guy calling the parallels between Napoleon and Hitler "staggering" also just banter? To most people the comparisons end with "they both had black hair" and "they both failed to invade Russia".

He is 100% right though.

Out of curiosity, which systems do your groups run?

>The Churchill was the best tank in WWII
It was though

>Greek was the conversational language
>Graffiti from Rome and all over Italy is primarily in Latin.
Only the wealthy would get an education to learn Greek.

Every day citizens and country folk spoke Latin.

Wait wait wait, is this legit?

Wrong

Look up Vulgar Latin
It's a mix of everyday Latin and some greek elements, because Greek was so common

An important source for this is the Cena Trimalchionis by Petron

for example:
Classical Latin: ictus
Ancient Greek: kolaphos
Vulgar Latin: colaphus
Italian(evolved from Vulgar Latin): colpo
English: hit

There are dozens of examples

However, Latin was of course commonly spoken in today's Italy and western Europe/ the adriatic sea

Greek was dominant in the regions affected by Hellenism: North Africa, Greece and Asia minor

He probably didn't mean to say that he's an idiot, but that's all I'm seeing.

>your manager's face when the production server goes down

This. The faggot clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. I played Panty Explosion in 2004 with all sorts of the stuff he mentioned coming up, but somehow he believes that any of this is new and revolutionary. He clearly doesn't play RPGs out of D&D, and is talking out of his ass as per usual.

>every roleplaying tabletop game is d&d
k

Pvp a shit

I only watched a few minutes, but I believe I got the gist, and I agree with him somewhat.

I think that any roleplaying experience could be greatly enriched and become much more enjoyable if the players have characters that dont always mesh, but are forced or convinced to work together anyways.

I just dont think it should be the responsibility of the game system, but rather of the group and the game master.

The best RPG I have ever played was amazing because there was so much tension in the group. At times we seriously wanted to hurt each other and occasionally even did so. We had arguments about it in real life too because it got so heated.

At one point it became apparent that there is absolutely no reason our characters would travel together anymore because they disliked each other so much, so we spent a couple months of real life time playing new, side characters in the story. We played out the side characters separate adventures and it eventually led to our real life guys being back together. There was so much real growth in that party, hated enemies became friends and the campaign went on for almost three years in real life before it ended with a perfectly satisfying conclusion and we retired the campaign. It was great shit and the drama between the PCs is a very large part of what made it so good. Another character and mine had a relationship extremely similar to Goku and Vegeta.

Honestly I'm ok with it being handled partially on a system level to nudge people along those lines. Ultimately though I think session 0s and a few questions from the gm handle the task more organically, and that making the core concept of your system based on something like this is silly.

I wish my players could do some drama here and there.

Bunch of chuckleheads man childrens can't though.

Think so. If I'm not mistaken it cost him his position at a university (associate professor or something?) at the faculty of archeology.

Dance teacher by far.

People's inability to understand, or even comprehend the existence of, taking the piss will never fail to amaze me.

Everything Lindybeige says or does is Poe's Law in action. You can shout about bantz or taking the piss all you want, but either he's very dedicated to trolling or he is indeed as stupid (or at the very least arrogant and biased) as we believe he is. Let's not forget that this is the same guy who complained about turn based combat in D&D.

FRom the comments on the video posted by LB himself.

Some people have mistaken what I am saying in this video. I'll try to clarify. I started by saying that I had bought DragonStrike(TM). It wasn't cheap, by the way. Nostalgia costs. I spent money on it because I wanted it, and I wanted it because I can enjoy that sort of game. At no point in this video do I say that traditional RPGs games are rubbish or to be scorned. By telling you up-front that I have just bought DragonStrike(TM) I thought (wrongly, it seems) that I was making this very clear. Nor do I say that DramaSystem is the only way for RPGs to get more dramatic in terms of character relations. I just thought that people who are already into RPGs might find the system involving a web of relationships between the characters before the game starts interesting. Yes, plenty of other RPG rulebooks have pages of suggestions for how to encourage good role-playing in what might otherwise become a mission-focussed game. The suggestions in 4th Ed. D&D were particularly good, but unfortunately, they appeared alongside a rule system that made good role-playing very difficult. Not impossible, of course, just very difficult. At no point do I say that the players of other RPGs are bad role-players. I do not talk about the quality of players at all. It is so obvious that the quality of role-playing in a game can never be better than the quality of the players, that I thought it unnecessary to mention. Any game, even chess, can have role-playing added to it, but some games like chess do not encourage, reward, or facilitate it, while others, like DramaSystem, make it the core activity of the game. Some days, you feel like playing chess. Also, at no point do I say that the settings of DramaSystem are all realistic, nor that unrealistic settings are bad in RPGs.

Instead, I tell you about settings in DramaSystem where the PCs are time-travellers, rabbits, in a space-ship guided by dreams, orcs, and sentient robots. I don't see how anyone who has seen this whole video could have possibly made that mistake. I would like to apologise to the three editing errors (a flash frame, a caption in the wrong place, and a missing fade-out) that I have spotted today in this video. The longer the video, the harder it is to spot all these things.

Too long, didn't read, and don't want to bother enough to read something that would change my narrow minded views, because that might mean that I was wrong about something and my blind hatred was completely pointless.

Sure thing, Lindy.

I'm not Lindy. I'm Wayne. I'm worse than Lindy though:

Saved :^)

No, he is claiming that they allow you to not perceive reality as it is.
The reason he can claim such a thing, is that he understands that hats do what sunglasses currently do.

So his claim isn't that sunglasses block your learning, but they block your ability to enjoy the vividness of reality, if worn permanently.

Did you make this image? It's the first time I see it.

Yes

>no drama between the PCs

If you want to improve it then add a bunch of british sabres, a warhammer, a sallet, a bowie knife a picture of Alfred Hutton (pic related) and add
>penetration

Also add this picture that looks similar to the one he has in his room

You're welcome to add it yourself