>30k TACTICA & TIPS What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
>buy recasts from a nice dude here >the recasts are pure garbage
Fucking hell, finecast is better quality, I'm going to sell soon.
Aiden Jackson
Did they say how AP was going to be working for 8th yet? Or is it the same as before, just reworded?
Austin Lee
I wonder if that's the reason the dude here sold them. Maybe those minis just go round and round.
Cooper Perry
It's different, AP in 8th is a save modifier, so if you shoot a gun with AP -2 at a tactical marine they take their armour save on a 5+. Also, cover boosts saving throws in 8th, so that same tactical marine in a crater (say) would get a 4+ save. If it gives some context for typical AP values: >bolter: AP5 in 7th, AP 0 in 8th >heavy bolter: AP4 in 7th, AP -1 in 8th >meltagun: AP1 in 7th, AP -4 in 8th Although some things have been reshuffled, in 8th power swords are better against armour than power axes, for example.
While we're at it, GW haven't specified yet how invulnerable saves work. Rumours say it's as before (an alternative to the armour save, so you can't take both) but that's not 100% yet.
Christian Adams
I run PotL and there is nothing you can do to stop me
Thomas Jones
So given we know the 8e stats for Knights now, I'm probably going to be salty when Primarchs get a couple dozen wounds. They don't need to be MORE immune to anything less than an AT weapon.
Knights are W24, T8, 3+ and 5++ against shooting. Sword does a flat 6 wounds and -4Sv.
Gavin Taylor
Since most targets in 30k are T4 (or T5), are power axes going to sitll be the best compromise as an all-rounder weapon in 8th?
Jonathan Young
Considering they don't seem to strike last (and neither do Fists), I imagine they'll still be good. Though it is annoying that the swords get better armour penetration now than the axes.
Leo Morgan
That's ok. Just don't be a cunt about it and we can all have a gud time with our own snowflake forces.
Connor Wood
Axes and Swords will be pretty much even. Mauls are not useless anymore, just underwhelming.
Woo converting a few meteor-hammer style power mauls for my Scars.
Jacob Mitchell
Maybe in actuality it doesn't matter, but: -2 AP, and most characters become S5 (so 3+ to wound), 4+ to wound vs T5.
The sword will wound T4 on 4+ and T5 on 5+ but -3 AP
There we go, that was my thinking.
Samuel Diaz
What about muh lances?
Kayden Perry
Kinda surprised bolters aren't at least AP -1, given that they fire high caliber explosive rounds. Oh well.
Luis Wood
Why would anyone object to Pride of The Legion?
Liam Rodriguez
Yes, do the math. And power mauls become useful only against T3, since Str5 Power axes wound marines the same as Str6 power mauls, but also have a better save modifier. Which happens to be worse than Swords.
Gavin Bailey
I'm okay with it, hopefully means basic infantry won't get blown off the table quite so readily in 8th. I'm all for basic infantry being more viable, whereas (to use a 30k example) I think tactical blobs would be even less worthwhile if they only got a 4+ save against bolter fire.
Justin Bell
>Mauls are not useless anymore, just underwhelming. Mauls are turbouseless now. Wounds like an axe and has a worse modifier
Thomas Diaz
Primaris bolt rifles are at -1. Kraken Bolters will presumably behave the same.
William Flores
Will lasguns have negative AP?
Joshua Collins
>Knight chainsword >causes 6 wounds >indicator of 8e D weapons in general? >lascannons cause D6 wounds >TL weapons are gone, they're now just two weapon that fire as one >have Falchion >12 wounds from main guns >8D6 wounds from sponsons >Knights have 24 wounds >24/6=4 wounds per hull point >falchion has 9 hull points >36 wounds
Hudson Sanders
>quick, the angels of death are here! let's turn our lasguns on them and upgrade them to artificer armour!
Parker Lewis
Still stolen by ECs.
Ian Roberts
The joke is that PotL is typically babby's first 30k list thanks to BaC, since it can be accomplished with comparatively few miniatures compared to full armies. It isn't that PotL can't be an effective or fun list, it's just that it has become really common as an improvised entry to the setting.
I think infantry weapons aren't necessarily a problem here compared to the proliferation of everything else that can gut infantry squads like its no one's business. With the number of quad mortars and other artillery pieces on the field, an infantry squad can't even peek out of their Rhino without taking horrendous losses. Though the rules change for TL weapons will make Heavy Bolters function like an actual MG nest now, so infantry blobs might have a new hell awaiting them.
Evan Perez
When armor plating became common, axes started developing points in their blades and a lot of sword use reverted to stabbing at joints. If you were on a horse, axes were better because you could get more power than you could if swinging a sword... but it still wasn't better than stabbing.
Ryder Davis
High explosive rounds are traditionally the opposite of armor piercing.
Wyatt Collins
In marine vs. marine combat, axes will be marginally better against power-armored dudes and equal to swords against Terminators.
Hunter Jenkins
Daggers are stabbier and were also used to parry, so power daggers might get interesting rules. Or the usual +1 power fist attack. Still, flanged maces and hammer heads on halberds were among the best tools against armours because the force would transmit to the guy behind the armour, but unless Power maces and Cruxes arcanuns were +4Str or upgraded to full Two Handed Thunder Hammer, they're just useless now with mere -1 modifier
William Cooper
>HEAT >opposite of armour piercing
Also, you do realize bolt rounds are designed to pierce the armour, then explode, right?
Jeremiah Robinson
He's probably thinking of HE and HEDP instead of HEAT. Scorpius rounds will fuck people up.
Christopher Allen
I have been wondering, AL (and their characters) have lots of options for modifying reserve rolls, with 8th Edition getting rid of the reserve rolls what do you think FW will replace those rules with, of course in keeping with the AL theme.
Eli Ortiz
And these aren't tanks we're talking about, these are biological organisms that tend to have little in the way of legitimate armor. Until you get to power armor or even Terminator armor, you're still pretty damn squishy out in the field.
Bolter rounds are meant for devastating lightly armored foes (i.e. non-compliant human militias, xenos hordes). By penetrating and then exploding, they're good for mowing through masses. Now, once you get to heavy armor or even power armor, bolters do lose their touch but still have enough punch to allow Marines to reliably go toe to toe with almost anything else they'd have to kill.
Isaac Walker
> not knowing the difference between HE and HEAT Engineer pleb, when will you learn?
Nolan Sullivan
Has anyone ever actually seen a loyalist army from a traitor legion painted in their pre-Primarch colours? (besides Luna Wolves)
On a semi-related note how many World Eaters escaped the Nails? I know only psykers weren't implanted but none of the known loyalist WE characters have them.
Daniel Morales
>Still, flanged maces and hammer heads on halberds were among the best tools against armours because the force would transmit to the guy behind the armour, That's strength, not penetration. And it works in the axe's case, given that it's 7% better in tac marine vs. tac marine combat. The poor power maul doesn't benefit in that situation though, because S5 to S7 all have the same effect.
Owen Foster
As another user said in the close combat thread.
VS toughness 3 models with a 6+ save maul is the best with a 5+ save maul is the best with a 4+ save sword is the best with a 3+ save sword is the best
VS toughness 4 models with a 6+ save axe and maul are equal with a 5+ save axe is the best with a 4+ save axe is the best with a 3+ save sword is the best with a 2+ save sword and axe are equal
VS toughness 5 models with a 6+ save maul is the best with a 5+ save maul is the best with a 4+ save maul is the best with a 3+ save maul and axe are equal with a 2+ save axe is the best
VS toughness 6 models with a 6+ save maul is the best with a 5+ save maul is the best with a 4+ save maul is the best with a 3+ save sword is the best with a 2+ save sword is the best
VS toughness 7 models with a 6+ save all are equal with a 5+ save sword and axe are equal with a 4+ save sword is the best with a 3+ save sword is the best with a 2+ save sword is the best
VS toughness 8 and 9 models with a 6+ save maul is the best with a 5+ save maul is the best with a 4+ save axe is the best with a 3+ save axe is the best with a 2+ save axe is the best
13 situations where mauls are better or equal 11 situations where axes are better or equal 11 situations where swords are better or equal
I'm happy with this.
Charles Bell
That's assuming st 4 wielder.
Anthony Thomas
nice bit of math there user. I'm certainly ok with this result, nice and balanced really.
Eli Sanchez
You are amazing Friendon. +1
Logan Watson
The 8th edition are modifiers are different. If you beat the toughness of your opponent by 1 or by 3, it's still 3+ to wound. You only get 2+ to wound if you double their toughness.
Jonathan Lopez
>Mauls are turbouseless now. Wounds like an axe and has a worse modifier But at least they do SOMETHING now. The old AP4 meant they were completely useless, now they at least modify armor. I can justify building one or two for fluff without it gimping the model. Mauls are for smacking bikers and primarchs now.
Eli Bell
>VS toughness 4 models >with a 6+ save axe and maul are equal >with a 5+ save axe is the best >with a 4+ save axe is the best >with a 3+ save sword is the best >with a 2+ save sword and axe are equal I get the axe as being better against 3+ saves. What am I doing wrong?
Ian Morgan
Axe: 2/3 wounding * 2/3 getting through 5+ = 16/36 Sword: 1/2 wounding * 5/6 getting through 6+ = 15/36 Me too.
Jason Hall
You're right, sorry. They're better just barely. 6.4% better than swords against t4 3+ save with a st4 wielder. It was a lot of tables.
Ethan Miller
Worth noting, cover works in close combat in 8th, so (if I understand it correctly) any infantry hiding in ruins or craters will get +1 to their armour save in close combat (chargers don't get that bonus in the first round). So that may slightly tweak things, depending on how much terrain anons generally have on their tables.
Aaron Allen
>To aspire to be superhuman is a most discreditable admission that you lack the guts, the wit, the moderating judgment to be successfully and consummately human.
How prominent are the non-Astartes factions in this? I really love the look of the rules and the setting, but I may go a bit insane if I have to fight the same Space Marine list every time, as the YT batreps seem to show me. Anything viable that's NOT Rapiers, Leviathans, a Spartan and a couple squads of vets, or is this a pretty stale meta? I want to try out either some badass techpriests or those awesome voidsuited Solar Auxilia, can they compete? I know they're the sexiest model lines I've seen in ages, but I never see them played.
William James
There are also to hit modifiers, too, going to be implemented. So power fists are -1 to hit. Meaning they're 33% better on a marine for wounding capability against another marine vs a power sword and using current typical points (20pts vs 15) are 33% more expensive. But will be more points efficient against multi wound enemies.
Jaxon Mitchell
>That's strength, not penetration When you wound someone regardless of them wearing either clothes or plate mail, what's that called?
Charles Kelly
Space Marines are definitely the most common army. However, the non-astartes factions aren't really rare. Mechanicum can compete with the best of them, and solar auxilia is no pushover.
Nicholas Reyes
Heck, a well played militia/cult army is no slouch with a ton of ordnance, bodies, and trickery.
Jace Fisher
Or the infamous 300 man zealot rending horde.
Dylan Russell
I'm not saying they didn't receive any boost, but they're still surpassed by the other power weapons, especially for anything that wears power armour or better. But yeah, at least they do something now.
Luke Edwards
Mauls will be the statistical weapon of choice to dismantle mechanicum heavy infantry like thallax, ursarax, scyllax, vorax, and myrmidons.
Isaiah Robinson
Dual talon shield-captain WiP. Reasonable or do you guys see any glaring issues? Making a cape from greenstuff (for variety), but that's proving to be more challenging than I thought. Also, the right talon also has a underslung archeotech pistol.
Jason Murphy
where are all the audio books of HH novels? am i being dumb and missing it?
Luke Russell
I like the cheeky little bird heads.
Grayson Gonzalez
>Making a cape from greenstuff I strongly suggest appropriating a cape from some other kit or setting him apart via a unique paintscheme instead. Making convincing looking capes is probably the hardest thing you can try doing with greenstuff.
Otherwise he looks gud. The added eagles on the claws are a nice touch.
Kevin Foster
Would be cool to have the archeotech pistol be over the shoulder predator style.
Good to hear. I presume the SA dudes keep to the Guard tradition of tanking it up to a truly insane degree? I know Mechanicum has MCs and Dune Trains, both of which I like.
Wait what. How many zillions of points is that, because in Marines: The Meta hordes might actually be a bit scary. Can you take that AND the ordnance and trickery? My friend's 40k Renegades look pretty badass, I presume it's similar?
Kevin Diaz
And what's the difference between HE and "high explosive armour piercing"?
Daniel Brooks
Thanks user, Power Axes and Power Mauls are nasty. We Numen Gun Clans now!
Chase Nguyen
High explosive is just that, explosive in a shell that explodes and fragments. HEAP, also called HEAT for high explosive anti tank, is high explosive shaped specifically to penetrate armor. The explosive is formed in the shape of a concave cone behind an identically shaped metal plate.The lensing effect of the explosive in that shape causes the metal plate to turn into a molten jet that pierces armor easily.
Joseph Hall
Updated with colors. Since power fists are usually not as available, I kept that table separate - blue is where power fists are best, with light blue-green as tied with one of the other power weapons.
For the rest, red is best and yellow is tied. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting chainswords... if they do get an extra attack, and you don't automatically get two attacks for having two ccw (have they said anything about that?) then you get twice as many attacks as normal which seems crazy. But that's what these numbers are based on.
Who would've guessed, power swords are anti-automata weapons.
ECAnon here, looking for advice. Building a techmarine/Forge Lord at the moment, but I'm not sure what sort of color scheme I should use for it. Some use their own colors with the Mechanicus red on one shoulder, while others are inverted.
Ian Thomas
I’d say the 40k practice of painting specialists in a specialist color, with just a shoulder pad in chapter colors, is very 40k. Use your legion colors with specialist decorations. There’s a SoH techmarine color plate in Book 6, isn’t there? (In the Xana story, the one who isn’t actually a SoH.) He actually might’ve had a lot of gray. Hmm, I’m only confusing myself more.
Brayden Nguyen
Just bought a Burning of Prospero box since it was on sale at my lgs, and it's my first time getting into 30k. What scheme should I paint these mk III marines, they're rather plain looking so I'm sure I can get away with just about any legion.
Adam Sullivan
Well, I'd say that depends entirely with what you'd like out of your Legion forces. If you want something fun to paint, see pic related for the 18 different standard color schemes for each of the Legions. If you're looking to start a new army, I'd take a brief look at each of the Legions first, since they each have their own specialties, personalities, and aesthetics.
Caleb Carter
I don't think there's any special scheme for techmarines but Iron Hands who served a lot time with the Mechanicum would paint one arm and shoulder red. It's not outlandish to think an EC techmarine might incorporate red into his armour considering how much the 3rd valued individuality and creativity.
Jeremiah Brooks
user, have you been following this conversation at all, besides dropping by to make a comment one one post without checking on the context?
Hudson Kelly
Does this account for powerfists dealing d3 damage per successful armor pen?
James Howard
The original legions all look so good, it's hard to pick. As for what I want out of them, I guess a bunch of dudes who kill stuff with big guns and who don't afraid of anything. I wish there were some running/squatting legs I could use with these guys.
Andrew Allen
>I guess a bunch of dudes who kill stuff with big guns and who don't afraid of anything Excuse me sir, might I have a moment of your time to discuss our Lord and Savior Perturabo?
Thomas King
How upset would people be if I used these with MKIV marines? I'm converting some MKIV assmarines, and I can't find any MKIV pistol+sword arms
Benjamin Torres
Damn it
Joseph Ross
Pardon me, but may I tempt you with any flavor of Blackshields with a topping of "your dudes" unrivaled by any of the more, pedestrian Legions?
Parker Fisher
very, buy the MKIV assault marines / despoilers and stop complaining poor fag.
Iron Warriors seem cool. My only complaint is I have a big necron army, so painting another army silver seems like it would be boring.
Christopher Cruz
>paying $188 + shipping for something I already >mfw
I already have the bodies, boyo. I just need the arms.
Luis Gray
It is boring, and its the most memeified Legion.
Sebastian Wright
No, you can think of it as being against single-wound models... which isn't common at higher toughnesses. Against multi-wound models, powerfists are always better than these other weapons (at least when the wielder has a WS of 3+).
Nicholas Johnson
For dakka and tough guys, you might like Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, or even Salamanders (dakka+flamethrowers). IW+IH love their vehicles and big guns, and both love heavy armor and frontal assaults. Death Guard also like big guns, but are big fans of infantry slogs. Salamanders are known in the setting for being tenacious as fuck, while also being forge masters (general love for all sorts of weapons and armor)
Justin Rodriguez
Ignore the autist, they'll work just fine.
Adam Edwards
All legions are memeified, AL the most but so are others like WAS, SW and BA. The IWs memes come from their bitter loyalists, who overshadow people like Forrix or... Or that other guy who gets demoted, I don't remember him. But Kalkator is gud too. Bants Magneric to no end >Sees Magneric now as a Dreadnought >"The Iron Without suits you well :^) "
Eli Baker
Death guard and iron hands can also do tough shooty motherfuckers. Iron hands aren't that common if that matters to you, but have some really tasty rules, and a great scheme if you can work out how to paint it.
>advising someone against a legion purely based on memes on a kiwi wardancing forum GTFO.
Ayden Thompson
First attempt at painting a custodes. I thought painting yellow was agony, then gold came along.
Camden Ross
U wot m8. Gold's a piece of piss. >Step 1: paint the fucking thing gold
Liam White
The Custodes and Sisters in BoP can be allied into a loyalist legion. So there's some advantage to picking one of them. Your brief description fits the character of the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands the best. They're both tough legions that absorb fire well. I'd also look at the Salamanders - like burning things and, like the IH, are slow and tough.
Luke Flores
Instructions unclear, dick stuck in thinning pot; still too thicc.
Adrian Reyes
What gold is that? Are you having trouble with it separating?
Nathaniel Nguyen
Any idea how LCs (and by extension solarite talins) will work in 8th? Maybe like a mix of powersword and chainsword?
Cameron Howard
Found a mistake, will update shortly.
Nathaniel Harris
No idea. Part of the problem is we don't know whether they'll still be costed close to power fists, or if they'll have a points drop down to the level of swords/axes/mauls. If we knew that I'd be more confident guessing how strong lightning claws might be.
Jace White
The custodes figures have such ugly legs and feet. I wish they were more like the older art ones.
Jordan Stewart
it is a shitty ass testor enamel (came with my first airbrush). where it seems to be separating is my bad attempt at highlights.... i think.