Just finished this book. I'm no Iron Hands fan normally, but hot damn it was good...

Just finished this book. I'm no Iron Hands fan normally, but hot damn it was good. They attain almost Marines Malevolent-levels of cynism and brutality, but it was actually quite refreshing after reading the 2 Calgar's in less than a week.

The narration is a tad hard to follow at first, and the ending leaves a lot to be told (potential sequel) but an absolute joy fluffwise. Definitely a must read for IH fans that want to know more about how the recruit, their way of living and how bloody brutal they generally are.

Definitely recommend.

Are they fighting mechanicum? Why?

Are the poor Admech just completely shat on as usual as they beat their fists against Marine armour instead of using the plasma SMG that's right there as the IH effortlessly punch Dunecrawlers and Domini to death, or do they get a decent showing?

Don't want to spoil too much but it's a Mechanicus world turned renegade, near Medusa, basically a world belonging to the Boys in Bionics in all but name, so when said world decides to stray from the Imperium they aren't too happy about it.
There is a lot of emphasis on how resistant IHare thabks to their bionics (and I find the model range and even 3rd parties cruely lacking in the bionics department to represent the wode array of modifications talked about) but IH get a fair amout of beating too.
The way they fight was completely new to me though, I think it was the 1st time they were illustrated like this. Basically IH are all connected, kinda like the Mechanicus noosphere. Obviouzly lowly battle brothers are jut connected between their squads or Clades, but the higher you ho with authorisation, the more you hear, the more you see, you can even see through a brother's eyes and stuff.
I really liked how the author gave them a much more robotic, cold and calculating look on combat. There's no grand speech, no warcries, to the point where an order goven orally and not via their link is considered weird and deviant.

That's really neat. How far did it go into IH culture and organizational structure?

A lot. Like really. There's a solid third if not half of the book that isn't about combat but rather the environment, the different clans, the Ironfathers, the culture, which is tremendously cuntish, as in "shooting an initiate in the shoulder with a boltgun after he won a trial because reasons and telling him to fucking deal with the missing arm and heart" cuntish. The IH are really given an agressive outlook, there's the obvious and standard refusal of weakness, but the aujor fug deeper and turned it into a culture of constant challenge where basically friendship and brotherhood don't exist.
The book touches that and how it affect the Chapter sibce Kardan Stronnos is the main protagonist. Expect a few retcons here and there, but nothing too terrible.

That's exactly what interests me about IH

Care to greentext some main points, mainly about clans, iron fathers, relationship with AdMech and the culture, especially if it's about dickery like that. They probably gave a mechanical arm to the initiate?

>Clans have all their own culture, some are known to be completely obedient, unflexible, others are renowned for their ferocity. Veterans of the Clan Avernii bear little scrools on their armors to remind them of each of the Clan failures, the very first one being the death of Ferrus.
When one leaves a clan, he's supposed to basically leave his former life behind. Same goes for Claves (squads), since they are (normally) always connected, they'll sometimes say "I am Clade Stronnos" to emphasis their appartenance to that squad.
>The link between IH when in battle is an overlay, they can see each others position at all time, relay info, but also feelings, which in turns means stuff like grief, anger, etc are diluted between everyone, hence, less individiality.
>Iron Fathers are now a position separated from Chaplain, Techmarines and Apothecaries, but they keep their authority. They're all more or less walking tanks, with modifications out of the wazoo, and the book takes places during an episode of the Kristosian Conclave, hence the Iron Council is divided.
>You get to see how the Iron Council functions, which, again, uses that computer-like link, but it's pretry democratic, every Iron Father has an equal voice.
>Introduction of the Helfathers, bodyguards of the Ironfathers, Terminators that don't talk, are genuinely bigger than everyone else, and carry an absurd amount of weaponry, as in 2 heavy weapon and a shoulder mounted missile launcher to boot for example. Just getting the attention of a Helfather is considered bad omen among the Chapter, that's how much they're scary.
>The IH culture is derivated of the harsh and unforgiving Medusan life, turned to 11. Everyone is extremely aggressive all the time, they deliberately kill initiates that had done nothing wrong just because, consequently the intake is ridiculously low, a batch of 3 initiates in a clan every 5-10 years is considered normal.
Cont'

Wasn't the IH's asshollery reduced or even eliminated after they encountered that mechanical Greater Slaaneshi Daemon?

so... grimderp bullshit. just great. as a fan of the Iron Hands this level of "deliberately killing off recruits while needing reinforcements desperately" idiocy has always pissed me off. there's a line between bitter stubbornness and utter stupidity for GRIMDARK's sake that a lot of people don't seem to get.

grimness should add to a story, not be it's sole defining factor, or else it's impossible to get emotionally invested because they're all a bunch of massive assholes who are completely interchangeable and disposable. maybe I should just stick to HH instead...

Cont'
>This is sustainable because IH are just that damn hard to kill. Several times in the book it's noted that this or that dude is so much machinr that nothing short of complete and total annihilation will kill him, because the broken parts can be replaced. A deathwatch captain remarks that he's never seen so many service studs concentrated in a single chapter (i.e their marines survive for several centuries). A scout even approaches 100 years old, that's how hard the induction to full marine is.
>Gone is the time where a new marine has just a bionic hand. Most newly inducted have already several biotics, and now it's not just the veterans that are almost entirely machine, it's a lot of IH.
>Mechanicus and IH are generally on good terms, but the Mechanicus considers them as children in an adult body, basically incapable of seeing the grand picture, needing guidance, and interestingly, the IH comply for the most part. There's a passage where the Mechanicus outright forbids goddamn Astartes to go even though it's the best route towards the ennemy because reasons (no spoil from me here) and they just go along with it.
>The book might open on a sequel, as it bases its conflict on the spotit of the Chapter, the way it acts, the questionning about its strict adherence to calculus, cold hard logic and formatting, and it's absence of flexibility.

There you go, hope that gives you enough to have you interested.

Yeah, that bothers me. The Iron Hands are fanatically dickish, but they're also pretty utilitarian. Killing people for no reason has never been part of their MO. If someone fails or is in the way? Then they die.

Killing people for no reason is why the Morraguls split off and became the Red Talons.

Well, see to understand why they can afford it.

Hell, even Clan Morragul had some semblance of organisation to their bloodlust and focused it mainly towards traitors. Even Autek Mor, a guy who was basically a World Eater in black armour when it came to the way he acted, challenged his captains to duels for their failures instead of just blasting some random recruit's arm off with a boltgun. And they were a much-maligned, reject part of the legion, not THE ENTIRE FUCKING CHAPTER.

Even then, stuff like the Iron Hands being the Mechanicus' retarded goons has never been canon, until Clan Raukaan turned the idiocy up to eleven. They've always been very close, but not "let's go against the interests of the Imperium and kill off this regiment because Magos Dumbfuck said so" close.

The book focuses on my two favorite factions ,but I am a poor, miserable, broke bastard.

How much did you spend on this novel? Is there any way I could spend less?

Yeah, I wanted to be excited for this because I love the Iron Hands, but it seems almost Multilaser-tier ridiculous from what I've now just read.

It's not exactly like they kill their initiates and scouts for no reason, it's more that theur traning regimen is that brutal. The example is a moment where a Veteran Sergeant sends his scouts in a tunnel and tell them to be faster than him otherwise he'll walk over them and kill them. Or when the initiates think they're finally done with trials, get sent to a surprisingly nice room with food but also a weapon qo whay do you think happens whe tou out these dudes that hate each others guts to death (because the IH initiates and scouts really hate each other)with a weapon when the others aren't armed? It's their way of making sure only the strongest of the bunch survive.

Addendum, IH are also noted to be about 1100, but that's from the Voice o Mars who basically manages their equipment, men, assignments, etc, so he probably counted support staff and the 42 or so Iron Fathers, which isn't a small number when you cosnsider these are senior officers. The threat to the chapter isn't their numbers, it's rather noted to be their internal struggles.

14 euros for the Ebook.
That's what happens actually. There's all this talk about challenging your superiors and shit. The recruit got an arm blown not by some random dude, it was by the sergeant in charge of the trial.

And it's not like the all comply (no spoilers here so won't say more) and the actual decision of not infringing on the Mechanicus interdiction orders is votes upon by the Iron Council, and won by the
Kristosians, which may or may not have something to do with the Mechanicus on that one. It's not like the whole Chapter are yes men to the cogboys, far from it, the vote is won by 2 votes.

So since we in book talking.

What is good to read?

I have read Space wolves stuff and Cain novels.

Is Horus Heresy series a must?

Is there anything on par with Cain?

Some Slaanesh recomendations would be welcome but I bieelieve you can't publish such things in america.

Lords of Mars trilogy is pretty good but if you read it then start with Storm of Iron then Lords of Mars.

Baneblade and Shadowswords by Guy Haley are also very good books.

Okay, what's the page count?

Slaanesh central books? I know solid books with them as antagonists, but as main characters? Not that I know of.

HH is by and large shit, don't waste your money, use the the /hhg/ thread for free boks.

Deathwatch by Parker, Baneblade and Shadowsword by Guy Haley (and the 2 short stories associated, Iron Harvest and Stormlord), Dead Men Walking, the recent Wardz of the Blade, NL trilogy, Helsreach, and pdf related are all great books.

Thanks user. Sounds really interesting, will probably pick up the book sooner or later.

>Is Horus Heresy series a must?
The original trilogy is god tier, Angel Exterminatus and The Iron Within are pretty good if you're an Iron Warriors sorta guy, as is A Thousand Sons if you like the Thousand Sons. In general Mechanicum, The First Heretic, Betrayer and Know No Fear are all good. Also, the big rulebooks have some great fluff and art.

>Is there anything on par with Cain?
Pretty much anything by Dan Abnett, the Night Lords trilogy and Storm of Iron.

Oh, one more, The Wolf of Ash and Fire is a decent read. Lupercal!

Pdf says 304.

>Abnett
Ew no. His early books were fine, but he really got the success go to his head and basically does whatever he wants xith thr fluff. His abominations upon the HH serie can't ever be fixed. Even Chris Wraight can't fix that mess. I fear for the fluff if e does the Emp v Horus fight. I fear a lot.

Can someboy please post a donwload link of "The World Engine"

I've heard is pretty epic, and that pdf has a link to it but doesn't work.

I'm currently about 75-80% though Cadian Blood, the first story in the Honour Imperialis omnibus. I got the book for Dead Men Walking, but damn, Cadian Blood is good. It gives a lot of good flavor and background on the Cadians as they try to reclaim a shrine world ravaged by plague. It's good at saying "Look, the Cadians are the best of the best the guard has to offer, and they are still not good enough." I highly recommend it if you want to know more about the poster boys of the imperial guard.

Eh? Besides Unremembered Empire and Mark of Calth I can't remember anything particularly bad he's done with the HH. Most of that shit is on Nick Kyme and to an extent ADB with his "chaos is best stepdad" bullshit.

Cadian Blood is good, you could already perceive ADB' distinct writing style, albeit less pronounced than it is in Helsreach or the NL trilogy.
Dead Men Walking is different, but I would argue it's better. It's one of the few grimdark books that make sense, while beinf by far the most depressing 40k novel, but for all the good reasons.

2 words, Legion, and Cabal.

The whole Cabal nonsense wasn't great, but otherwise Legion was a well written enough book desu. It was only when the perpetual BS started taking over the story that it really went south.

I was fine when the number of perpetuals in the whole setting could be counted on one hand. Now it seems everyone and their dog is immortal.

14 Euros for 304 pages, while Game of Thrones is 700 pages for 7 Euros.

I guess I should just wait 11 years for it to drop price.
What a hobby.

Legion is pretty damn good. I finished reading it recently. The cabal concept can be weird at first, but as introduced and managed in that book respects, I think is pretty well managed.

What has ben done with the cabal and other many stuff introduced there by Abnett or other authors might like or not like everyone, but imo in Legion everything is pretty good.

Also the way it describes the Alpha Legion trhough the eyes of normal humans is pretty interesting.

in all fairness, A Game of Thrones is like two decades old at this point. GRRM really is a slow bastard when it comes to writing.

Yeah, I was going to say, the books got several editions, and the smaller ones might be no that expensive, but the big ones are prices accordingly, like 15 or 20 euros.

If the ruthlessness of the Iron Hands bothers you, then maybe you should join the rest of tg in worship of the salamanders instead.

Tbh, there's a difference between being ruthless, efficient and cold-hearted and being a dick just for the sake of it.
>t. Minotaurs player

you have a fuckin' stroke there buddy?

Nah I see why he'd think that, I greentexted wrong. They don't kill initiates for lolz, but rather have a noticeable absence of tolerance for weakness, be it big or small.
Basically, where others chapter woild say "meh, if he survives transplantation of organs and trials, he's in I guess", IH wants the dude to overcome everything thrown at him and then some, and get back for more afterwards.

Of note, an initiate calls the IH responsible of him sadists and it's acknowledged. Hell, the Veteran Sergeant in charge of the scouts starts off by saying bullying the weak is the only thing that gives him a boner.

I have a 2,500 point army of Clan Morragul painted and assembled you fucking prat. but as I said, there's a line between "ruthless stubborn bastards" and "grimderp morons". For example, a comparison between the Steel Legion and the DKoK. how the hell are you supposed to get invested in a group of faceless automatons unless you have the emotional and intellectual maturity of a 16 year old edgelord? much like the 1d4chan memesters that the death korps appeal to it speaks to Steve Lyons' writing ability that Dead Men Walking was as good as it is, frankly.

Good lord, should have checked before posting.
I'm phoneposting, so my big meaty fingers type several keys at once and I can't see the whole pos, therefore missing mistakes if I don't detect them immediately.

That's where Clan cultupre plays. And obviously, the fact that Stronnos is the protagonist allows for some deviancy from the rigid IH standard. That's his character trait after all.
Give the book a try I say, it's still a shitload of fluff.

a lot of it does seem pretty interesting, particularly the rogue admech world and hints of a silica animus but I really am sick to my stomach of this weird dichotomy of borderline nobledark AoS-ification of 40k and the "everything must be shit forever regardless of whether it actually makes sense within the universe or not" crowd who seem to get their knowledge of 40k from skimming over 1d4chan articles and the shit parts of the 3rd edition codexes. I love dark universes but when there's no glimpses of hope then it all ends up seeming the same, you know?

Well the story is pretty self contained, and it's not like the IH are doomed to a slow death in the book. I don't recall any momenr where they're explicitly stated to be endangered, like the BA and successorsn hell, for a Chapter who's supposed to have almost no suits.of Terminator armor, they're quite a lot of people stomping around in those.

The Mechanicus interactions and plot is interesting, there's clearly a divide in the Chapter, the Chism is mentionned, and the whole plot kinda revolves around the two views of man and machine that separates the IH and the Mechanicus. A symbol of the ennemy is the Cog mechanicus inverted, with the human face on the left side and the robot one of the right side. Subtle but wrong. The plot is also loosely related to the Sapphire King.

At the end of the day there's no geat universe shaking announcement or anything, it's a self contained story that fleshes out a Chapter nicely.

Does it describe their capabilities as a chapter? Because based on what you're saying, they sound like they operate at a different level compared to other marines.

I like Prussia and I like the aesthetic of the death corps of kreig.

It does, it takes place near Medusa, which means they can actually bring the Clan Crawlers to the planet, so you have a whole description of how they do this.

Since it's close to home,at the time of the Iron Moon when Clans try to get back home they acted as a wide group here, with several clans active in the same warzone.

There's not that much oassages in space, it's all on the ground so not that many information on their fleet, but the author seems to have taken the route of the IH being a very strong chapter, with great equipment but without the possibility to call upon successors in case of trouble like BA, DA or UM. Although it does happen later in the fluff if I remember correctly. Was it not in the 13th Crusade that the Sons of Medusa helped the IH?

do they have a similar combat doctrine to their HH counterparts? striking hard and fast with armor followed up by brutal infantry firefights?

Does it have an underlying pro-humanism tone? As an Ironhand and Mechanicus fan I dislike when they shift towards transhumanism being bad because that's the whole point of their armies.

Basically.
Well the molt revolves aroun that, so I prefer not to spoil, but it is something considered.

This is set before that. I think it's supposed to be the start of a series leading up to that.

Plot*

Actially I think it's afterwards. If we're talking about the Sapphire King, it's setwayyyy after.

I finished Fifteen Hours yesterday. It's a good read, and it really shows how much being a no-name guardsman sucks.

I know there are other books on that subject (Dead Men Walking for example), so let me restate - no-name recruit, from a no-name homeworld. Nothing special like Cadia, Catachan, Tallarn or Krieg, just some random guy on his first battlefield. A completely unnoticeable footnote in the grand scheme of things. The only thing significant about this guy is he's lucky enough to survive for the titular 15 hours.

All in all, a good read. Not on par with Cain, per se, but it is good.

Anyone have a download link?

BL has one you poorfag
It's brand new so not much chance you'll find it for free I'm afraid.

Don't be stupid, what's depicted isn't ruthlessness, it's World Eater-tier pointless psychopathic slaughter. If an initiate has gotten to the point of earning his progenoids you don't kill him without a damned good reason unless you're retarded, and you don't teach men you're depending on to be utterly loyal to each other in the thick of combat to despise one another. And treating your own new marines like shit for no reason is a great way to wind up with more Chaos Marines.

I mean the way they do it means they get the cream of the crop, and the anger and hate the newly inductedbare filled with is slowly replaced by the standard cold fury of the IH as they get slowly more and more bionics.
It's not like they gun their recruits for no reason, it's just that any potential sign of weaknesd has to be exterminated for them, hence the drastic recruitment standards.

I probably don't do the book justice since english isn't my mothertongue, but it made sense to me.

>Ferrus Manus was the broest of Primarchs
>his Legion became the cuntist of chapters

Loving every Laugh

Here's the thing, according to them, that's what killed him. He trusted too much. Hell, something that comes back regularly us a canticle of the creed saying "Never trust."
Really the book makes sense imo.

The Fabius Bile book is pretty slanneshi. Although he isn't a worshipper, he does cooperate with a slanneshi warband of EC for a lot of the book.