How bad would Wotc fuck up an Urza planeswalker card? How would you balance it?

How bad would Wotc fuck up an Urza planeswalker card? How would you balance it?

>How bad would Wotc fuck up an Urza planeswalker card?

Looking at Ludevic and the other shit they've done lately: very.

>How would you balance it?
Rezurrect Urza without his memories and make him a colorless walker to mirror his lack of a solid personality.
Boom, now he's at neowalker power levels AND has a reason for it.

urza was always pretty blue. i would probably make him jeskai.

2URW
Planeswalker - Urza
+1: each player draws a card and then sacrifices a creature
-2: discard a card and deal damage to target creature equal to that cards converted mana cost
-6: you get an emblem that says "you may sacrifice permanents your opponents control and discard cards in their hands instead of your own"
Loyalty: 4

urza did love to sacrifice his friends in order to acheive his goals.

None of those abilities are white. Not to mention Urza definitely has Black in him.

lots of planeswalkers gain and lose colors on subsequent cards. i don't think that just because urza has some amount of black alignment to him means that he needs it on a card. i think his desire to impose order is much greater than his desire to kill.

i think most planeswalkers exhibit all five colors at some point. nicol bolas created a 5 color religion on amonkhet.

Urza's design would be best if he was similar to Bolas' design, POWERFUL, but at a fairly prohibitive cost.
I think something along the lines of 4UGRW at minimum, and then some crazy abilities.

>No B
Everytime.

urza the oldwalker????

how about we start at a mana cost of 100 with a +2 deal 30 damage to a target
+ 1 draw 5 cards
0 destroy up 7 target permanents
-1 you win the game
-2 you get to hit your opponent and then you win the game
-10 they forfeit the right to win any game ever again.
-20 they suck your dick, you win the game
-40 they or a family member of them are now your cockslave and have to live solely on your semen.

starting loyalty of 400.

urza can use be used 10 times in a turn.

if you use urza 10 times in a turn you win the game.

I DID say 4UGRW at -minimum-, nothing saying you couldn't throw B in there.
It could also be argued that B was the color Urza showed the least, though yes he wasn't above sacrificing others to reach his goals.

>damns his brother to eternal torture in gigerhell
>convinces a bunch of other oldwalkers to help him destroy gigerhell and tricks them into piloting mobile mobs powered by their sparks
>Creates a golem which constantly questions it's own purpose in the world
>Is satisfied with passively watching as a stowaway on the MTG Enterprise while the crew endures such fun times as getting consumed with vampirism, getting Cronenburged, fratricide, and torture.

Urza is hardcore Esper with dips into red if he needs to break stuff. I don't think there's a single thing he did with green mana.

>Urza comes back
>Karn gets him to New Phyrexia to help destroy them
>Urza instead becomes the new Father of Machines
>yfw

>Urza
>New father of machines

he spent 10,000 years fighting Phyrexia. Why would he join them?

That's not necessary. A planeswalker card represents what the planeswalker is willing to do and what bullets they're willing to take for YOU, not the totality of what they're capable of. Why would Urza pull out all the stops for the sake of inconsequential chumps like us?

Because that's exactly what he did in canon. When he got to Phyrexia he said "fuck it" and joined Yawgmoth. That and Wizards has said multiple times that the only reason urza didn't become the original father of machines was because Yawgmoth did it first

>nissa is 60
>mending happened 60 years ago
Nissa is the reincarnation of Urza in the color he never used.

I mean, they both make horrible decisions.

>tfw real Mishra will never get a proper card

2wubr
+1 tutor artifact onto battlefield. Put a DAMMIT URZA counter on -cardname- then if there are 10 or more DAMMIT URZA counters on the card, target opponent gains control of this card and remove all DAMMIT URZA counters from this card
-3 deals damage to target creature or player equal to number of DAMMIT URZA counters plus one.
-12 you win the game
Loyalty:1

listen dude, 5 colors just isn't very fun. making things fun is the number one rule of card design.

urza color rankings:
#1-blue
#2-white
#3-red
#4-black
#5-green

i'd rather have a URW, or a UWB, or a URB urza than a 4 or 5 color verrsion that i will have to bend over backwards to even use.

Urza should be all 5 colors, he did help put together the Coalition after all.

Urza of Dominaria

WUBRG1
+3 Search your library for up to 3 Artifacts or Lands and put them into your hand.
-4 5 Damage ot a creatue or player, yo gain 5 life. This damage can't be prevented and can target illegally, (so not even Hexproof or Protection gets around it)
-10 Activate the Legacy Weapon and Exile up to five target Permanents. This ability can also target things illegally.
Starting Loyalty: 6

Almost forgto to mention, reasoning behind these abilities:
+3 lets you either go grab an Urzatron set or lets you go get Artficats, especially Thopters. Urza was originally an Artificer, and he was really good at making Ornithopters and Miters and Armor and avengers and shit.

-4 is like Death Grasp combined with a little bit of Urza's Rage. Urza don't gfive a fuck about Hexproof or Protection anyway.

Ultimate is self explanatory, you activate the motherfucking Legacy Weapon and nuke some phyrexians.

timmy plx stop

if you won't have to bend over to even THINK how to use Urza, you're not playing urza correctly.

>and can target illegally
>I burn the guy two tables behind you
>What?
>CAN TARGET ANYTHING. I'M BURNING JOHN HE'S AN ASSHOLE. HEY JOHN FUCK YOU-

it's rude to burn people.

>you're not playing urza correctly.
i wasn't aware anybody was.

listen ding dong. the nicol bolas planeswalker is fun and fits his character really well...yes?...but the reality is that it just never really gets played. the only time i've ever seen it hit the table is in vintage cube where it is always instantly destroyed. it's basically a really expensive removal spell.

if you want a cool over the top urza card to look at...sure...make it 5 colors with 10 loyalty and no chance of seeing play. but to me being powerful isn't about that, it's about being efficient enough to see play in the first place. who is more powerful, nicol bolas or liliana? or gideon? or jace? from a flavor standpoint we both know that the answer is bolas but the reality is that he doesn't gets played because power is worthless if you have to kill yourself to get it.

>5 colors is hard to play
Someone doesn't know how to mana-fix. Nicol Bolas isn't used much more because he's 8 mana, no because he's 3 colors. That's hard to fit on a mana curve without tons of ramping. 5 or 6 mana fits right at the top or the mana curve for a control deck finisher. Urza belongs in 5 color control.

>i think his desire to impose order is much greater than his desire to kill.
He's quite amoral and vindictive, shit that's his story arc avenging his brother while being a dick about it
he's definitively BR, you could argue he is also U and/or W because of his disposition to scholarly pursuits and his desire to bring order

yeah he is a huge dick about everything

what format is 5-color control dominant in?

Invasion Block, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Block (with that filthy filter land reflecting pool mana base), Alara block, and all of the standards those sets were in. For a while it was pretty good in Modern. If you don't remember this shit you haven't been playing long enough.

That Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block was stupid, you could play Cryptic Command on turn 4 and then a Cloudthresher with disturbing consistency.

well i meant current formats but sure

[citation needed]

What helps is a planeswalker card isn't exactly reflective of a character's power as much as it is reflective of a character as a teammate, as opposed to creatures which are outright your servants.

Urza's card would probably be weak as all hell, considering he wouldn't care to put himself out much helping some random scrub who beckoned him.

Something along the lines of this.
His plus and minus are just him fucking around with artifacts, while his ultimate lets you win the game via stupid bullshit combos you shouldn't be able to do.
And he doesn't give a shit about you, thus low starting loyalty, but if you let him just sit there and build his machines you can earn his favor.

...

Yawgmoth wasn't a planeswalker.

The first ability is "a bit" much.

The custom creator wont let you edit it out.

That ultimate is awesome. It's perfect. The rest is too U, but dat ult.
He should be a 3 or 4 drop.

Yes you can. It's called 'don't make him a planeswalker.'

That's awful

The one thing most everything can agree on is that Urza is blue. He may also be other things, but he's definitely blue. Fucker loves his machines. It's also why his first two abilities are the way they are - everything about his pre-walker life (beyond 'fuck my brother') was I LOVE MACHINES, a good chunk of his post-walker life was MACHINES SOLVE EVERYTHING, he almost doomed everyone because hey Yawgmoth loves machines almost as much as he does! Fucker was obsessed.
The mana cost is due to Mind Over Matter, since that was the first card to show him on it

While WOTC did royaly screw up ludvec's card, it's not fair to say that they would do the same thing with Urza. With ludvec, wizards didn't even know the community wanted ludvec as a card, so when they had the chance to put him on a card that kinda made sense (if you think about it for long enough, which isn't the best way to go with a card people want but still) they took the opportunity.

But Urza? Wizards definitely knows people talk about Urza. An entire block is named after the guy. Heck, he had multiple books around him, and even newer players probably know who he is. Wizards knows that they need to be absolutely certain that Urza will be an amazing card
>implying they're planning on printing him in the first place
>implying my confidence in WOTC isn't misplaced

legacy, vintage and modern.
Vintage don't give no fucks.
Legacy don't give no fucks.
It used to be Ok in memedern but no reason to do so now.

Why so?
I'll admit numbers may be off - I'm not the best at balancing things, but what do you feel isn't being represented correctly?
Beforehand, he's everyone's favorite eugenicist, spreading plague everywhere and able to do a little in combat if he's got some equipment which is all from the books, until he gets to experiment on a walker.
Then he becomes a nigh-unkillable monstrosity that slaughers the weak just be existing and then forcing them to serve Phyrexia. His stats are fairly small, but he's going to be unblockable by most good creatures.
And one of the things that CAN take him out? Legacy Weapon.

I see the MoM connection, but I just think they owe it for him to be highly playable in eternal formats (like Dack or Jtms) because of how important he was to the lore (with regards to the mana cost).

First strike is redundant as fuck with that second ability.

Human Yawgmoth needs Deathtouch, and his ability should make players lose life and creatures get -1/-1, which is more in line with a plague theme.

Yawgmoth, Father of Machines... it's another "He's so over powered in lore it's hard to represent him as a card." I'd probably make him bigger (10/10 atleast) industructible, and how about something like "Protection from Spells and effects from permanents with 5 cmc or less." To show you have to invest a ton of resources to actually beat him.

The human side is damage because it's literally the effect of the card Pestilence, and I thought that was enough for the disease theme. Went with First Strike over other keywords so he could take out a Viashino Bey in combat (after Pestilencing a few times) without dying, though it's another good option, yeah.
As for the other side, higher numbers would definitely work, especially if the devotion number was tweaked around it. I just went with simple for his protection so it wouldn't shrink the text too much, but your version would be better at preventing chump blocking and otherwise have much the same effect. It was made a couple years back, so things like Devoid eldrazi stuff wasn't around yet.
Thank you.