About grimdark, nobledark, levity and all that shit

I know that a lot of people merely pretend to look forward to the "death of grimdark", but I'm still concerned by the way people tend to circlejerk over concepts like "nobledark" and the idea that 40k "shouldn't take itself seriously".

Cause to me it sounds really dumb; I often see people who want 40k to have a "nobledark" tone (a tone that emphasizes heroism) but are also firmly convinced that it should be kinda silly, and that the grimdark tone that was very prominent around the 4th ed is somehow detrimental to those things.

I think it's flat-out wrong, I think that 40k has always been grimdark, and that in order to have some humor, and some heroism, it NEEDS to be grimdark as fuck.

Cause here's the thing: if you remove the unreasonably evil characters and all the horrible things from 40k, you suddenly have a lot less to make fun of, and coincidentally, a lot less material for heroism.

In fact, 40k hero-wank really began around the 4th/5th editions, where it took itself seriously enough to give all its characters an over-the-top backstory that allowed for stuff like the Spiritual Liege shit.

Of course it isn't as goofy as stuff like 'Ere We Go, but if you want to look back upon the Rogue Trader as being more light-hearted, you also have to admit that it was grim as fuck; in a less dignified, more punk way, but still really grotesque and fucked up, and that's also when you had stuff like the Inquisition War trilogy and the weird fetish shit from the Space Marine novels.

So humor and heroism aren't hindered by grimdark, they thrive on it. If you make 40k *nice*, then there's a lot less opportunity for dark humor on the one hand, and for dramatic weight and grandiose visuals on the other. If you make 40k *nice* you end up with milquetoast, vaguely cute tumblrish nonsense like Eagle Ordinary, Emperor TTS, and narratives that sound like some random Justice League arc.

And you might as well drop 40k altogether to jump into the Overwatch fanbase instead.

You've somehow convinced yourself that this is all a slippery-slope where Warhammer 40k will suddenly become all noblebright. That simply won't happen, my friend.

But have you considered that Eagle ordinary and TTS and other 'nicer' stuff that the community/fandom puts out is because people are bored of the grimdark?

Or rather, people are bored of GWs handling of the grim dark which has now become fatiguing and uninspired? Rape and gore can only be slapped into a bunch of books before you get desensitized to it.

We want good grimdark. Black Mirror/Twilight Zone-esque existential horror is what I want out of a Warhammer 40k book.

I want the book where people actually talk about Exterminatus. Just the whole book, 500 pages of a bunch of people in ONE room, and they scream it out '12 Angry Men' style. No violence or gore. Just pure moral justification for the purging of billions.

I want the book where every chapter is a day in the life of an Administratum scribe doing his daily commute and then toiling for hours at his desk. As time passes, the chapters become increasingly different and we the reader piece together that his coworkers and his neighbours are slowly disappearing and then getting infected by genestealers. But he never notices the entire book because he's become a slave to the routine.


But every fucking book I pick up goes as:

>Marines have job.
>Do their job, but get existential. Is job all there is? Is life more than just the job?
>Realize something is wrong.
>Keep doing job because everything is grim dark and not doing job is heresy.
>Realize too late that the job actually was part of a chain of events too complex to comprehend, and that by doing said job has now set plans into motion.
>Things steamroll out of control even as the Marine tries their best.
> Everyone dies except for the Marine.
> Life is suffering.

The most recent Deathwatch audiodrama has the exact plot I mentioned. ITS SO BORING.

The Dark Imperium is still Grimdark "Everything's fucked", the rampant corruption and general assholery within the Imperium hasn't gone away, the galactic situation is objectively worse than before. And no one's asking to make it 'nice'. They still want the Dark Eldar to be edgy space rapists, they still want comissars to rule by fear, they still want the galaxy to be one minute away from annhilitation. But the previous Grimdark was overbearingly so, there was no moments of humour outside the Orks and occasionally Trazyn, any victory for heroic characters was phyyric at best and nothing good would ever happen. It was too Grimdark to be emotionally invested in, because why care if the result was always going to be negative? The new tone means the stakes actually matter, because the Heroic characters could get a win thats fully a win.

And the entire franchise is strongly influenced by 2000ad, which is readily able to balance the dark and gritty in series like Judge Dredd and legitimately heroic and light hearted characters in stuff like Nikolai Dante, all while mantaining a strong sense of humour throughout.

I'm going to post funny warhammer comics.

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>And you might as well drop 40k altogether to jump into the Overwatch fanbase instead.

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I like Warhammer most when it gets Dark Heresy and th Siege of Vraks/Badab War - like.

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This is the real reason that witches are killed on sight.

god shut the fuck up

my favorite one

>And you might as well drop 40k altogether to jump into the Overwatch fanbase instead.

I really don't see anything wrong with this. But then, I'm a twenty-something millennial so maybe I don't "get" 40k fluff.

You're never going to convince the Tau fanboys to give up. It's pointless. Might as well abandon ship.

If you ask me, 40k is good, because you can do everything with it. Yes, its grimdark, but this darkness offers the true heros to shine greater. I like it, when its balance. Its grimdark, but there is hope. The Imperium is as it is out of nescesaty as well as incompetence. Which tone you set stronger, is your opinon, but don't get gaught up in the extreme. Only grimdark is bullshit, only herowankery is bullshit, only humor is bullshit, and only Epic/Seriousness is bullshit to. The mix of it, is what makes 40k so good.

Also the historical allusions are always fun as well.

kinda reminds me of anthony hopkins

Just because a bunch of fancy new improved space marines were created and the primarchs are coming back doesnt mean your average imperial citizen is dying in plenty of horrible ways. Thats where the true grimdarkness comes from.

Plus tzeentch thrives on hope remember no matter what the state of the galaxy is chaos feeds off of it. How is that not fucking geim dark. Do people really think a bunch of space marines will ease the suffer of the common man? Cause it aint doing that since the greatest shitstorm in 10k years has started.

This guy gets it. This is what 40k is its a flexibile setting that is open to interpretation, and it allows a person freedom in crafting their own worlds, characters, and armies.

Trouble often comes when people try to see it as all one thing. Thankfully, the guys writing it, for all their faults, try to accommodate many different flavors. (This is why I'm happy with the Great Rift.)
Like, if forced to pick, I generally go with 'grim' over 'noble', but that honestly feels like the wrong way to look at it. What I *really* want is things as close to Heavy Metal magazine as possible. (Noise Marines with guitars, man, that's where it's at.) But I've got no issue with people who want something different out of there game. When your army goes charging (inch by inch) across the field, you wanna crank up the Manowar, or the Halo, or the Mass Effect? Whatever works for you.

Actually, what drove me into 40k, (Im just a Lorefag, reading Books,playing games) is the combination of gothic architecture and technology as asthetic. This is for example the reason i like, just from the optics the Grey Knights and Dark Angels the most. The second thing that drove me into it, was the humor, and as you said, specifically all the bullshit the went for with it. I mean, you can say what you want about the Furrys, but point me one other sci-fi setting with Space Vikings. Actually, im just waiting for a Samurai Sororita Order (There Armor would fit that look the best) or something equally retarted next. But, if I think about it, which Cultural Background/Historical Allusion has Dorn and the Imperial Fists?

prussian/teutonian knight/crusaders IN SPEHSS, add to that a good dose of masochism and building walls like death-korp dig trenches

>Actually, im just waiting for a Samurai Sororita Order (There Armor would fit that look the best) or something equally retarted next.

Non-combat orders in shinto-based robes would be pretty cool.

sorroritas anything would be cool, if only GW would care ...
just take sisters with helmet, had a sharpy nose on it, et BAM, plague-doctor sisters

Yes, I would go for full samurai, or warrior monks there, that would be cool.
I have maid a thread about this some days ago, a user game up with basicly burial sisters, collecting artifacts and the ash and bones of saints and something like that, that would be pretty cool too.

>Yes, I would go for full samurai, or warrior monks there, that would be cool.

Sohei would be nice.

Even Overwatch is too dark for what these people want considering the fanart/fanfiction they produce.

The internet is now populated by "adults" who don't want to be responsible for their feelings and are paranoid to the point of having panic attacks at the thought of offending (((minorities))). You will never reap any fiction worth being read from that crop.