Short rests take 1 hour

>long rests are an hour
t. wizardfag

So use the variant rule that lets short rests take 5 minutes. Fluff it as catching your breath, drinking some water, shaking out your muscles and clearing your head.
Note that it'll make fighters mighty as fuck though.

Play with the long rests variant rule (short over night, long a week).

It winds up making more sense as you cant just stop in the middle of a dungeon at all. We usually say 3-4 days instead of a week and it works out awesome. Don't have a warlock or any other classes super reliant on short rests, though.

>I want my game to be boring as fuck because nobody will ever have their powers for 90% of the campaign.

Thank fuck I don't play with you.

No, it just means you can't face tank the first batch of mooks you find and burn all your spells to heal up from after it.
Resource management becomes important.

Usually it's not that hard to find a room in a dungeon to bar off and rest in, and during a short rest all participants remain alert.
If you don't have 4 people to keep watch, a long rest will have a period when nobody is alert. Even with 4 people, there will only be one person alert at a time, which means only one perception score to fail for an ambush.
Getting your long rest interrupted 7 hours in is catastrophic. Getting your short rest interrupted 40 minutes in isn't.
Short rests can easily be facilitated with the 2nd level spell Rope Trick.
Long rests require at least a larger zone and the 3rd level spell Leomund's Tiny Hut.

> How often are you really going to be in a situation where you can relax for an hour in the middle of an adventure, but you can't relax for the full 8 hours for a long rest?

Assuming your dungeon design isn't shit, pretty often. When was the last time you checked all your closets? Expand that to a larger building, say a school. How many rooms aren't used for one period, but another? Or an office, meeting rooms aren't used 24/7.

You don't think the dungeon inhabitants are going to use that 1 hour to investigate and organize themselves?

Deadlines. Just because you are physically safe to take an 8 hour doesn't mean you can do it twice a day and still get where you need to within the week, which is when the mad king will complete his ritual.

also, yeah, this.

The reason to use the gritty rest variant is so you can spread encounters out while having them matter instead of needing to bunch them all up at once.

In 5e, you're supposed to have 6-9 encounters a day by the guidelines. That means you'd need all of those in the dungeon.

If you use gritty rests, you could instead have 1 encounter per day as the group travels to the dungeon for a total of 3 or 4, and then have another 3 or 4 encounters within the dungeon itself.

Sure, but that's a consequence of taking rests in general. A long rest risks the arrival of enemy reinforcements into the dungeon or, if they've been alerted to the powerful infiltrators who have now paused in their onslaught, simply taking everything of value and escaping.

A 1 hour rest is generally much less risky than a full 8 hour one, to be certain. Even if you end up having to retreat outside the dungeon for the rest, the enemies will still only have an hour to realize what happened, figure out where you went, and then set up a defense around that.

30 minutes of planning is a lot less than 7 hours of it.

>are you ever going to be in a position that allows a lunch break and not a full night's rest in the middle of the day?

but mastery dice are added on top of the full attacking! That's what makes them great! It's both classic basicattackspam AND tactical options.

>Adventure Joe, after dislodging his axe from the 30th goblin's head, looks at his watch to see that it is lunchtime
>Adventure Joe clocks out on the time recorder and hops in his Adventure Van to head to the nearby Kobold BurgersTM
>Adventure Joe enjoys a piping hot burger, fries, and soda while chatting up some friends and coworkers who are also spending their lunch breaks in Kobold BurgersTM
>Adventure Joe notes that his hour his almost up, so he hops back in the Adventure Van and returns to the dungeon
>Adventure Joe clocks back in and kills 30 more goblins with his Adventure Axe, who have neither fled nor set up deadly fortifications in preparation for his arrival

how it actually happens
>Joe: i used up all my battlemaster resources in that fight and i'm almost dead can we take a short rest
>Party: no that's retarded, we can't stop for an entire hour when there are enemies left, we'll just use healing magic on you and continue
>Joe: what if there aren't any monsters left?
>Party: then there's no reason to stop for an entire hour
>Joe: okay
Joe does not get any of his fighter resources back until the party finishes the dungeon and returns to town for a long rest. He ends up looking like a pathetic excuse for a martial in comparison to the paladin of the party for the entire campaign.

>taking only 5 minutes to catch your breath is "epic heroism"
>taking 8 full hours to catch a rest is "gritty realism"
5e is fucking retarded.

I mean, if you're truly doing epic heroism, then every major fight should require most of your health and all of your spells. A knockdown, dragout match between PL15 demigods. Late game shounen stuff.

Warlocks have two spells per short rest.

Two spells a day until 16th is not a reasonable number to work with.

Don't forget that leomunds is a ritual. If you have 10m of dead air, you can have guaranteed safety for 8 hours for no spell slot cost, barring high level anti-magic.

>they already reeeee'd when martials got mastery dice for free.

You're a bit confused -- there was never a time when the fighter got martial dice that did anything like the battlemaster did now, they only got very half assed, crippled versions of feats.

Go get stabbed in the gut like four times then come back in 8 hours ready for another four and tell me it isn't the bare minimum of gritty realism.

I think he's talking about the playtest, where every fighter got martial dice that refreshed every single round, by default.

It was a fucking awesome idea that they crippled before it could really come into its own, with the Battlemaster being a somewhat pathetic shadow of its potential.

"Meat points" are automatically retarded and not conductive to a RPG where combat is a normal occurrence, unless hit chances are very different.

A week vs a day isn't going to change a stab in the gut. Your character is simply over, barring magic.

"hey guys, were out of ammo and badly wounded we need to fall back and regroup."

I don't see why this is unreasonable.

Or there's latent magic in the air, and all native all biology has evolved to take advantage of that fact, some for special abilities or supernaturally enhanced growth, but nearly all of them for quicker regeneration due to the dangerous nature of such a world.

>I think he's talking about the playtest, where every fighter got martial dice that refreshed every single round, by default.

I am talking about the playtest, in which fighters got vastly more complicated, but weaker, versions of stuff that is still available in feat or class feature form. Its an "awesome idea" but worse in all ways than the finished product -- important to remember.

>with the Battlemaster being a somewhat pathetic shadow of its potential.

The problem is that people think "oh, wait, they got dice that REFRESH EVERRRRYY ROUND??! I shall assume that those dice did things that are equal in power to the Battlemaster as he is now -- without ever reading the playtest!"

Shit was rancidly abhorrent.

Sure, but that sort of pure goofiness isn't really relevant to D&D or that which is thought of in the fantasy genre, and certainly doesn't fit into any "heroism" or "grittiness" spectrum (unless you catch cancer or something)

God this. I always tell people this when they point out that they're healing pretty quick for a "Relatively lower fantasy" 5e. It's just not as common for people to know magic but it's still fucking everywhere.

Care to explain? I was quite involved in the playtests but gave up on 5e as they slowly drained all the good ideas out of it, and from everything I'd heard all the Battlemaster got was less of the same stuff. I've not heard any indication up till now that they were somehow improved.

Well if you play a resort management game, do you scale everything else around? Cause the CR system, though fuck as it is, has an assumed preset allowance for spells and other resources spent on said encounter. Or you just retarded and can't figure how to balance casters so REEEE caster supremacy.

It's unreasonable because it takes an entire hour, the spellcasters (the majority of classes) are long rest dependent anyway, and sources of healing are often available.

You can draw an arrow from the crappy shit they got in the playtest to its feat or class feature equivalent.

>from everything I'd heard

There's your problem. The idea that the playtest fighter was better is based off faith, and the confusion of "battlemaster have dice, old fighter have dice... must be the same thing."

>you just retarded and can't figure how to balance casters so REEEE caster supremacy.
>What is the utility gap?

Let (full) casters have utility, they sure don't have much else going for them. So much butthurt wailing from theorycrafters, so few playing them in actual practice.

But can you explain it?

The playtest fighter was designed to present the player with interesting tactical choices every round, to make meaningful decisions a standard part of combat.

Meanwhile, the Battlemaster has a relatively limited supply of that which seems to significantly reduce the amount of such decisionmaking that you can really make as a martial.

This has always been the hidden issue with Martials, in my experience. In 3.PF, it was easy to miss because of how inferior they were, but in 5e despite being mechanically on par in combat terms, they're just so fucking boring to play in comparison.

The whole 'you just need to improvise' thing isn't a relevant comment or somehow a 'fix', as it can be equally applied to every class and therefore does nothing to improve the position of martials overall in terms of actually having interesting options.

>Well if you play a resort management game

Are you going to hire kitsune foxgirls and foxgirls (male) exclusively for employees?

Will it be a hot springs resort?

>Boss, kitchen says we don't have enough monster fish for the dinner tonight!

>pure goofiness
For an anti-magic field to be "weird" that means that literally everywhere else IS a magic field.

And it'd be stupid for life forms to not take advantage of that if they can. The only things on Earth that don't derive at least some direct benefit from the Sun are things that just never get sunlight entirely.

And we have proof that nearly every species has taken advantage of it in some way. If it doesn't have spell-like abilities, then it went Dire and supports way more weight than its frame should because of cubic scaling, or started levitating, or generates elemental energies, or formed a hivemind.
For one of the first things for life to have figured out (ergo the most widespread) to be something directly related to metabolic processes, that's not even farfetched. It's what you'd expect to see.
For some species, like trolls, to specialize in this regeneration, is akin to the same we see in starfish in our own world, regenerating limbs to entire halves when all humans can do is seal wounds and grow back some liver.

OP is probably baiting but since I haven't seen anyone mention it yet.

YOU CAN'T BENEFIT FROM MORE THAN ONE LONG REST IN A 24 HOUR PERIOD. All caps since everyone forgets that. That 8 hour rest is actually an 18 hour one since it is the middle of the day when you try to long rest. This is presuming the initial argument that 'if you can rest for 1 hour you can rest for 8' isn't retarded as well. It is easier to hide for 1 hour than 8 hours. Hide in a pantry for an hour might work out, eight hours? Doubt it.

1 hour requires an eighth of the random encounter checks than 8 hours. It means the adventures waste an eighth of the time getting to their objective.

>The playtest fighter was designed to present the player with interesting tactical choices every round, to make meaningful decisions a standard part of combat.

That may have been the intent, but you get more functionality with less hassle now. Not to mention that the battlemaster's abilities are fucking awe inspiring compared to the garbage that the playtest fighter got.

Though I will certainly admit that *player characters* in general deal less damage, at least low levels, than during the playtest. A paladin can't explode a vampire at level 1 anymore (they had vulnerability to radiant, and could put out a lot more damage).

>The whole 'you just need to improvise' thing

Don't know what this refers to. Martial superiority dice just gave you access to tiny, horrendously worded slivers of what are now full, much better feats or class abilities.

And yes, when I get back from dinner I will see if I can put a detailed example to dispel this fuckin retarded meme that martials lost anything of value -- other than that PCs did a gazillion more points of damage in general, but that has nothing to do with fighters in particular.

Given the benefits of a short rest, having them happen faster would be potentially unbalancing.

However, given when you actually need to use them, having them actually *take* an hour is often unworkable.

The smart money is on 5 minute breaks, not benefiting more than once per hour.

I don't have a copy on my laptop, but from what I recall of the version that I'm familiar with (so until I or someone else can get to a copy, take it with a grain or two of salt) the primary options are:
they could trip/shove (which now anyone can do as an Attack action);
make a more accurate attack;
make a more damaging attack;
or, make additional normal attacks, as this was before that was a 'free' feature.
Again, these are more off the top of my head. I can share a copy in about 25 minutes when I'll be back home, if there are still people interested. IIRC there are also copies of each playtest in the /5eg/ directory.

>I am talking about the playtest, in which fighters got vastly more complicated, but weaker, versions of stuff that is still available in feat or class feature form. Its an "awesome idea" but worse in all ways than the finished product -- important to remember.
THANK YOU. People always overstate how well they actually worked in execution.
It's a very cool idea on paper, but part of the reason they were dropped is because minmaxers knew that simply piling on attacks was usually the mathematically prime choice ("more opportunities for damage per turn" surpasses stuff like "better ability to hit" or "better damage"), and less savvy/more devil-may-care players would ultimately take a lot more time per turn.

In the end, Extra Attacks are foolproof, Fighters having the most ASIs mean they can still have a lot of options while being accurate (or be "who gives a shit about disadvantage" accurate, or have more reasonable multiclass options). It'd have been silly to leave those martial dice as-is, especially after introducing the Fighting Styles. They traded flashiness for consistency and a faster turn, and I can't blame them.

You are misunderstanding the problem with the one hour short rest.

It is not that the party takes an 8 hour rest whenever they have a chance to take a 1 hour rest. It is that they opt not to rest at all when they have the chance to take a 1 hour rest, because hiding in a pantry for an hour when you're clearing a dungeon is fucking retarded and extremely unnatural. So the party just relies on their long rest resources to slaughter past the entire day's encounters in one swoop and then return to town to sleep for the night, and the "day's encounters" is usually much less than the DMG says it should be anyway because trying to shoehorn nine separate fights into every scenario is also unnatural and most GMs don't bother to do it.

The reason people say that as "you can just take an 8 hour rest whenever you could take a 1 hour rest" is because hiding in the pantry is SO unnatural that it doesn't even occur to them that that is what the system expects them to do. The only reasonable time to stop for an hour is when you're camping in the wilderness or safely inside the walls of a town.

1-hour short rests also help keep ducks in a row for things like downtime activities or anything else that might track time. I believe the DMG has a variable rule outlining 4e-style, 5-minute short rests.

I say split the difference and have half-hour short rests. Faster, but not effortlessly so.

Can I at least still be mad about them taking away the version of the sorcerer that accumulated badass dragon-themed powers as they ran dry on spells?

I actually like playing martials more, but my group tends to run a lower fantasy setting where casters are Treated weirdly. And its easier to roleplay the charismatic thief who talks his way out of trouble than the arrogant caster that people fear or respect and try to avoid.

That ran into the same issues the other guy was talking about. There was a best choice way to do things.

They were cool, mind, just...it was dropped for a reason past grog whining.

Yeah, that one was a legit letdown. Totem Barbarian got some gnarly changes too, but not as interesting and those kind of stuck around in a diminished form.
Maybe Warlock as well, but that could just as much have been me thinking, "I'm going to houserule that at some point."

Not exactly what was being talked about, though. Everything has its own elements which can be fun to RP, but Martials are often given limited arrays of options in terms of actual mechanics, limiting your ability to make meaningful and enjoyable decisions, lending them to be rather autopilot in combat.

>spellcasters (the majority of classes) are long rest dependent anyway
Druids wildshape/partial spell recovery is short rest.
Wizard's partial spell recovery is short rest.
Warlocks PERIOD are short rest.
Clerics channel divinity is short rest.
Paladin's too, plus he's front line he needs the health. Has more slotless healing than most though.
Barbarians recharge Relentless Rage. This is late level, true, but they too will want to short rest just for the health.

The only classes with no short rest abilities are Bards, Rangers, and Sorcerors.

Bards don't have to stop, but they do have an ability directly tied to their allies healing better during stops, and people do so love using those shiny class abilities when they can.
If memory serves all UA rangers have short rest abilities, whether we're talking Revised or Spirit companion. If they're using the bad original one, well, laughter is the best medicine they say. Start coming up with reoccuring pet death jokes to get revenge.
And honestly, who plays a non-multiclassed sorcerer?

Get fucked freeform fag, back to f-list with you.
>HP shouldn't be a thing, you die if I say you Who needs game mechanics?

Way to entirely miss the fucking point, moron.

my friend have non-adventuring played a campaign nearly identical to this. Is one of you dearest Joshykins, or has this occurred more than once?

of note, short rest says you can partake in light walking while on it.
You don't have to stop. Just don't do anything super strenuous.

If you're in a dungeon or something with enemies actively in it, how are you going to take an hour out for a short rest?

trust me bub, you don't know autopilot in combat til you've played a warlock.

It's much, much worse than battlemaster fighter in that regards

I understand where you are coming from but I think that people not thinking to take short rests is a player/DM problem, not a system problem. DM's not using up their 'XP Budget' for the adventuring day means the DM is designing adventures that are too easy.

I agree that using up an adventuring days worth of XP every single day is unnatural, but I it is fine for dungeons/very hostile environments.

To make it so the decision whether or not to rest is a significant one. As someone fond of dungeon crawls with time management as a central feature, I like it.

just because it contains enemies doesn't mean you can't go an hour before running into another band of enemies while you explore. Especially if you end up in some kind of puzzle room stuck trying to solve it.

Just how tiny and cramped are these broomclosets your DM calls dungeons? Are they just one big chain of enemy waves then you call it a day? I'll admit I had a DM that did that kind of thing once before, it was awful. 3 Level+2 CR encounters with glorified cutscenes, more accurately described as soliliquies, between them. If that's what you're experiencing I suggest doing what I did and bowing out. There are much better things to experience than XP grinder now with 10 minute interludes of DMPCs talking to each other as a thinly veiled exposition dump.

Druids are fullcasters. I played a moon druid from 1st to 8th level and can confirm recharging wildshape isn't a necessity worth stopping for an hour over, even if it's very strong.
Wizards are fullcasters, the partial spell recovery is just a cherry on top to them.
Warlocks are one of the classes that get fucked by short rests being unreasonable in many scenarios.
Clerics are fullcasters and channel divinity isn't a big deal. I played a life cleric from 5th to 9th level and only used my channel divinity to scare off undead a couple of times.
Paladin channel divinities aren't a big deal, their important abilities are either passive or long-rest dependent. I've been playing alongside a paladin from 5th to 9th and the only thing they need to care about is their smites.
A character that multiclasses into barbarian for their resistances, just a mere dip of levels, becomes so absurdly tanky they might as well be invincible. I have witnessed this. A high level barbarian who has actually been brought to the point of using Relentless Rage is probably experiencing a full party wipe and will have to drag their party's corpses back to town to be resurrected, if they survive the fight at all.

Bardic Inspiration is a short-rest recharge, after about 5th Level.

>take an hour out
just because you're not doing strenuous stuff doesn't mean you can't do anything at all guy.
You need to think a lot more creatively.

Ah, thank you my good man, I missed that.

I wonder why sorceror's have no short rest abilities then?
I wonder... Would they be more usable if their points recharged on short rest like monk's ki? They would potentially get more spells per day, but they'd still be very limited in versatility.

It's not "catching your breath" it's replenishing several key resources in the game, You fucking spend hit dice during short rests.

>and not conductive to a RPG where combat is a normal occurrence

In my experience, they're literally the only thing conducive to such an environment, since they make combat predictable enough to regularly undertake. It also completely fits the design aims of D&D, in which resource and time management were (and ultimately, still are) a major concern of the game.

It also fits the sword and sorcery roots of the genre, modeling the relatively survivability of the heroes versus their opponents quite well.

>channel divinity isn't a big deal

That depends entirely on the type of cleric you're playing, War and Tempest for instance will be wanting to make full use of theirs. Honestly Life should too and I have no idea why you used it that little.

>You fucking spend hit dice during short rests.
but you can just use spell slots and lay on hands to heal up instead. Its less dangerous, except for when you clutch run out of spells, you're still not done, and you're too far deep to get out without wading through even more encounters that you don't have the spells to survive either, then it;s much much more dangerous.
Trust me, I've played Etrian Odyssey. I've been there.

Casters have cantrips that are actually fairly potent to carry them, and hitdice allow them to minimize spell consumption, or spend it on things other than healing.

>Honestly Life should too and I have no idea why you used it that little.
his GM is super nonlethal. He isn't forced into take short rests because it isn't necessary. Which is why it just sounds like fighter whining to him. He's never been in a situation where he needed to short rest period, so the fighter getting his stuff back was just a great bonus.

YOU CAN;T SPEND THOSE SLOT MINIMIZING HIT DICE WITHOUT RESTING
CHECKMATE ATHIESTS.

Where is this healing cantrip you speak of?

We fought a lot of undead in that campaign and using it for the fear/destroy was usually the best option when I felt it was needed.

Yes, and? My whole argument there was to suggest that you should rest to spend hitdice to avoid wasting spell slots, and that this means that a 5 minute short rest is more than just "catching your breath."

...are you fucking retarded? I suggest spending hitdice to avoid spending spell slots on healing, cantrips are there to give casters something to do regularly without spending spell slots as well.

In that case it sounds like the feature was more useful to you than you let on in your initial post.

Actually that GM was extremely lethal and the reason I was playing life cleric to begin with is because I knew we would be slaughtered without ample healing. The entire party, sans myself who was hiding behind cover, would often get knocked below 0 hp in a single round all at once, and I would respond by casting mass healing word before they started to get executed. The wizard in particular would constantly be on a roller coaster of getting knocked out and then woken up before he can be finished off, and he rarely got to take his turns because his place on the turn order would pass inbetween the fits of unconsciousness.

I reckon you could homebrew a short rest recovery variant of Sorc points. You would need to do a lot of tuning though. The numbers would need to prevent them getting too many more higher level spell slots per day than other casters, while still letting them use all the metamagics.

Recovering a third/half of their level, rounded up, in Sorc points on a short rest, once per day, would be easier to balance out than a full restoration like Ki points.

Honestly, I think that Sorc is just a badly designed class since it needs a great deal of system mastery to unlock its power. A min/max'd Sorc is amazing at what they are built to do, a cobbled together Sorc where you pick the things "that looked fun" can be utter shit. I do like the Sorc, but can see its flaws.

In regards to why they have no short rest abilities, I think there is no game design reason. When the Sorc was cobbled together it just turned out that way.

Eh if you're in a situation where an hour rest isn't feasible, half an hour isn't much better.

Which is retarded, honestly. Better game design would have everyone getting similar benefit from short and long rests. Not strictly the same, but at least enough to be worthwhile.

Better game design gets you 4e, which D&D fans hate for some reason

It went so far in it's changes that one could say it had a different soul. Something more nuanced and moderate in style would have gone over a lot better, even while including a lot of it's advances.

4e was stale garbage; everything was homogenized under the exact same framework and the entire design was fucking obsessed with set-piece tactical battles. Fuck off with your resentiment driven views on game design.

>How often are you really going to be in a situation where you can relax for an hour in the middle of an adventure, but you can't relax for the full 8 hours for a long rest?

Depends on your DM

fpbp

>stabbed in the gut like four times
You're fucking retarded too.

My players take roughly 1 short rest per day. Sometimes they have to skip long rests and do another short rest. Once they were short on hit die. Caused a bit of panic, but they managed. Of course, some days they don't do short rests.

>How often would you short rest instead of long rest?
At short rests, everyone is able to keep watch and it is harder to get interrupted.
You are also still able to make some progress if you need to decode or craft something, for example.
You are proportionally more likely to encounter enemies when taking a long rest in a dangerous location, because you're not moving around for so long.
If you get assaulted during a long rest, you will probably not be combat prepared and if you have to withdraw you might have to leave stuff behind.

5 minutes is nothing, it is ridiculous. What is that supposed to represent? You might as well make them instantaneous.

1 hour = significant amount of time that might slow you down. You might get interrupted. Fluffwise it makes sense.
5 minutes = just when you sit down to relax the short rest is over.

>What is that supposed to represent?
An amount of time that won't fuck you over if you have to sit down in a dungeon?

No.

I did say we don't currently have any warlocks, for what it's worth.
It also probably helps the way our battles are spread out, too.