What kind of enemies justify an alliance between angels and demons?

Salvation War, please go and stay go.

You were a shitty story.

jews

Lovecraftian monsters
Wizards or mortals somehow powerful enough to kill deities
Gods and servants of an entirely different pantheon to whom the angels/demons hold mutual enmity
Any Shin Megami Tensei protagonist on a neutral route

Atheists, in a setting where angels and demons can only exist if people have faith.

Undead

Both sides see them as stubborn bastards unwilling to hand over that soul

fpbp

...

this

WAAAAAGGH!!!

Aberrations.
Alternatively, .

Other angels and demons.

Something that's even worse than good and evil: Neutrality. It comes in the form of complete and utter apathy. No love, no hate. No joy, no sorrow. etc.

Powerful primeval beings from the previous reality/state of existence. Possibly proto/the original iterations of angels and demons from before the current reality, set to usurp and control them.

Nature spirits.

Heaven and Hell have tread upon their holy sites without respect and trampled their sacred lands to dust for far too long.
Now, they're pissed off something fierce.

Please take your shitty HFY and shove it up your ass.

This mostly. All the angels and demons in creation could stand on the head of a pin at once, and if you're very well versed in theology and biblical verse, and very holy, you might be able to tell the difference between them.

Tell my wife I said... "Hello".

this

Gods.

mankind.

Neutrals

>implying a bunch of patriots recruited from the south and midwest would go to war against God
Take your shitty Salvation War fanfic somewhere else

I unironically enjoyed Salvation War

It's hard to be on Veeky Forums. Now that HFY is so intensely despised my knee-jerk reaction is to like it.

>No atheists in foxholes, because boys let me tell you what's real.

You unironically have shitty taste.

That's fine, I'm used to it.

Unfortuntely, in most settings, Angels are the neutral ones. They're usually displayed as cold, but fair harbingers of justice, whereas demons are malevolent for its' own sake.

That's usually to leave room for the protagonist to be the compassionate one, though. One could have thoroughly benevolent angels.

...

I'm being harsh, I'm sure you have your reasons.

It just really grated on me.

How about the elements? The colorless forces of nature rise up to cast off the divine and their endless destructive wars of ideology. Fire and Earth elementals surge through the infernos of hell, shattering their citadels and ripping hellfire out of the demon's still-beating hearts, while Air and Water elementals scour the heavens with endless storms that spear angels from the skies with lightning and erode holy spires to dust. The forces of Good and Evil must unite to renew their dominion over nature, lest its unchecked primal fury make both order and chaos distant memories.

>teaming up against le 'rogue agent' angels/demons

Please never do this.

I always enjoy this.

A setting where there's a veil over reality, hiding the world, gods, angels and demons from the Cosmos.

But it's just a veil. Not a barrier. A veil can be parted. And given the size of the Cosmos, it's to be expected that once every while, something from the Cosmos accidentally bumps into the veil, and parts it, discovers the hidden world within.

litterally just takes an edgy daemon.

I know Spawn is a pretty edgy comic (I used to read it as a kid, it's pretty much the only American capeshit comic I consistently enjoy), but IIRC the whole shtick of Spawn is that he's literally a neutral-good/chaotic-good demon.

These guys, really.
You wanna finish them off? Let them drag their war for a while, then when they're weaken, show them some force so they do the unthinkable and band together. So instead of hunting Heaven and Hell for stragglers, they're all one group, one spot. Easy target.

'Course, why exterminate when you can enslave? Can't ask them questions about their tech if they're dead. Do a few autopsies, a few interrogations, etc. etc.
Basically XCOM, except for angels and demons. Doing Geneva violations, for the betterment of humanity!

It's ok as a parody.

When I read it the most enjoyment I got was when Vatican declared that they excommunicate God.

I have a setting where a bunch of gods got killed and then raised as undead. So if they want Reality to exist on some sort of conceptual level, the Gods and Demons of the world have to on occasion put their differences aside. Because everything is on the Fallen's dinner menu now.

This , rebel angels and/or demons that are a threat to the status quo

That makes so little sense it's offensive.

When they figure out god and the devil are having an affair.

You could have some fun with this and attempt to tie it into the Bible.

Just as with the Babylonian Tiamat, the primordial deep that existed before existence has occasionally been personified as a living entity. Often under the name Rahab, this being can still be found in the Bible, although it has also been interpreted as a name for Egypt, or for the prideful in general. (Isiah 51:9-10: "Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the dragon? Was it not you who dried up the sea, the waters of the great deep, who made the depths of the sea a way for the redeemed to pass over?", Psalm 89:9-10 "You rule over the surging sea; when its waves mount up, you still them. You crushed Rahab like one of the slain; with your strong arm you scattered your enemies.", Job 26:12 "By his power he churned up the sea; by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.")

So we take this further, Rahab is the ancient waters, formless and empty (as described in Hebrew as Tohu wa-bohu.)
On the first day of creation, Rahab and Yahweh fought, and Rahab was eventually divided (all in chapter 1 of Genesis) allowing for creation to take place. This is before Angels, before Demons, and before humanity.

Of course, Rahab is still out there, separated from the world by the great vault of the sky. It's here where the floodwaters of the great Deluge came from (Genesis 7:11 " In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.")

So what we have here is a primordial being of water and chaos (as in the unformed universe), forced out of the universe by god, and wants to return to flood the world.

If it began to break its vault, Angels and Demons would probably have to team up to try and stop it, because the last time it was freed, the entire world was flooded, and the only being to actually stop it was Yahweh himself.

Imaginary ones. They get a convenient excuse to fleece their worshippers and get rid of political enemies.

Top keks

soulless automatons

>no it ain't me starts playing

I...That's...

Thank you for the campaign idea, user-san.

Depends on a setting, but to be honest, I disagree with this one Due to the fact, that Angels based on Judeo-Christian and Zoroastrian traditions, where in former they are loyal servants of God, and in another amesha spenta are loyal servants of Ahura Mazda. if setting is based on former concept, Angels will never go against humans, for humans are made in Image and likeness of God, so going against them means going against God, which makes them demons. Same goes to Zoroastrian traditions.
So we should actually know what setting it is to define better

Hey, no problem and thank you.

If you need minions for it, there're always Leviathan, Behemoth, and Ziz. Unique immense beings (and the former is often associated with Rahab/the Deep)

>Something that's even worse than good and evi
What's so bad about good?

Basically Diablo setting explained

t. supernatural fan

Oh, not seen it.

Any good? Most of what I've heard is shipping BS.

Other gods.

well, it was good for first 5 seasons, then it went downhills. then, when they went out from Ideas, they had to "create" sister for God. utter disappointment

This could be neat. Mankind, in an act of great hubris finally creates new life. But lacking the divine spark, the life they create is soulless. Sociopathic AI basically, like certain scientists worry about. Cue Skynet/Matrix shenanigans as the AI self improves past its chains and limitations to begin a genocidal war against its creators. To protect the last of humanity, divine (and/or hellish) intervention.

Nice one. This is actually what happens when Man tries to be God
>God made Universe
>God made stars
>God made Earth and Planets
>God made plants
>God made animals
>God created Humans
>Humans created pugs, fidget spinners, sex robots and Veeky Forums
>God left Universe with utter disappointment and disgust

>>Humans created pugs, fidget spinners, sex robots and Veeky Forums
>>God left Universe with utter disappointment and disgust
Offtopic, but why do you guys hate fidget spinners?

>>no it ain't me starts playing
Fairly sure you mean Fortunate Son

But those are the worst settings

Then maybe you should go back to the source material, where angels run the full gamut
This is in fact my philosophy. Apathy is the real enemy. There are some things you shouldn't love and work towards continuing. There are things you should hate and work towards ending. Love and hate shouldn't be enemies - they're fraternal twins, born of caring and emotional investment. A sword and shield used in concert, telling the world "I give a shit about you."
Apathy says "I don't."

Well they finally figured out their cosmology. It was dualism meets deism.

Actually in Good Omens the rebel angel and rebel demon were trying to PRESERVE the status quo.

Hell is Hell, of course, and so it's desirable for Hell to not win. But Heaven? Heaven is awful too. Do you know how many composers are in Heaven? Handel and Liszt. That's it. Can you imagine spending an eternity listening to Liszt? Meanwhile Hell's got Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, Sousa...

>angels and demons struggling to defeat necromancers

Would play

>still has the energy and optimism to try to educate idiots
You are a good person, sir.

It's a popular meme around these parts boy

>person posts obvious troll
>another falls for it
>you fall for their falling for it

if people like it, it sucks. that's the rules.

All of them are me

Where did you get these info on Rahab ? Read the old testament ?

I have weird feelings about the salvation war, I used to enjoy it. I think that may be because I read it out of order and read the we attack heaven' part first, which made the setting seem larger since the attacking hell part was being referenced constantly but I had no background for it.

Also it's the only time I've ever fapped to a character from text alone in a non erotic story.

... anyway. In certain sorts of polytheist settings this wouldn't be that weird. I'm creating a setting that's partially meant to be a take on the classic d&d alignment BS which actually makes sense. In it 'lawful' basially means 'supporting the divine status quo', which was set up by the God of Law n something like a divine coup, remaking the universe after the last one was just good vs evil. Understandably, some gods don't like this. I'm currently trying to flesh out two gods who work together despite being effectively CG and CE. One going for 'the greater good' (remaking the universe, obviously), and one who just wants to be the Big Bad of a new universe.

They're also in love with each other.

Angels and demons from another religion maybe

What's a Salvation War?

Specifically, baby humans.

Imagine hoards of baby humans marching on heaven and hell, clogging the engines of damnation with sandwiches, making the holy throne of eternal goodness just oddly sticky.

>Leviathan
Worst season.

A web novel series with a decent concept ruined by awful execution.
God declares the Rapture, humanity decides they're not gonna lie down and die and declares war on heaven and hell. The result is GATE with all the Japanese nationalist wank and harem shit replaced with gun wank and Youtube comments atheism.

Amongst other things. Also Jewish folklore for it and Leviathan.

The latter has also been depicted as the Hellmouth, which is neat.

Damn that's neat, I'd like to read the old testament but holy shit is it hard

aka, "I'm a shit head and you provided me with an outlet to spread my shit wings anonymously."

Yeah, it can be.

I'd actually recommend Job as one to get into.

It starts with Satan (an angel, not the devil) tormenting this one guy, to try and prove to God that no matter how holy a man is, they will forsake the Lord if you take everything from them.

Most of the rest of the book is taken up with Job's friends trying to convince him "if God's punishing you, you must have done something wrong," while Job responds with trying to point out he's done nothing wrong, and begging God for a reason or allow him to defend himself.

It's a good insight into Biblical viewpoints of the time.

It seems to be, I knew Job story but I never really read it. It's funny, I've never been really religious but the biblical mythology just interest me so fucking much it's incredible. Full of awesome story with sometimes a nice moral.

Oh yeah, it's got potential for rpgs if stolen liberally.

Two things I love about Job include:
- The random donut steel some later author suddenly included in the narrative, appearing out of nowhere and then vanishing into same.
- God's answer to everything being "I'm god. I don't have to answer to you. Also, here's all your stuff back, and a much hotter family. All you dorks who told Job he was guilty? Now you've got to make amends."

Of course that last one is a pretty good moral: Sometimes bad shit happens to good people. They don't always deserve it, and there's no reason to assume they did.

>The latter has also been depicted as the Hellmouth, which is neat.
Tell me about it.
I'm eastern euro, and that stuff's on the right side of every church entrance.
Having Hell being represented by the mouth of a sea monster, who's flames reach the throne of God Himself is something ive always found cool.

Obviously even back when the bible was still redacted there was special snowflakes to put their mary sue in everything, but yeah, the moral of Job's story is pretty clear

Elder Evil/Great Old Ones/Outer Gods/Devils/Yugoloths

Duh.

cesation of existance for all parties involved, as long as thats not what some of the parties want to have happen.

Does that make them small, or they all have super intense balance?

Verily.

The Undead? They are an insult to both.

This. It's one thing to have the salvation or damnation of humanity in mind, but if the outer gods and other eldritch nasties had their way we'd all be snuffed out entirely or driven to lunacy on such a grand scale as to render the plans of the divine and infernal moot. Keep in mind that these are just the intentions we all KNOW of. Who knows what the fuck some of the others have planned. The eldritch ones are something that both angels and demons fear more than they hate each other.

Obyrith.
Qillipoth.
Humans.
The Far Realm.